While I can certainly understand how you would come to those conclusions Tom, I think it is a much much sadder case and that Allan is the epitome of what TWI does to a person.
I suspect, somewhere way deep down inside, Allan recognizes the doctrine he clings to for dear life is completely full of holes. This is precisely why people like you, Todd, and Clay scare the crap out of him. Unintentional though it may be, you make those gaping holes undeniably visible. It is fear which causes him to react the way he does - and it is clear,it is reactionary and not thought out.
Likewise, it is that deep down inner nagging he cannot ignore, and this is why he keeps returning here day after day. So I say, keep on talking, because though he doth protest too much, Allan IS listening and very likely hearing EXACTLY what his heart is craving.
Yeah, he ....es me off too, but when the anger subsides there is nothing left but pity. I, too, once clung desperately to that doctrine. I too could not face the notion I had been duped - that I had practiced evil in the name of righteousness. I think many of us go through this to some degree or another after leaving TWI.
While I can certainly understand how you would come to those conclusions Tom, I think it is a much much sadder case and that Allan is the epitome of what TWI does to a person.
No doubt, Abigail, TWI did all that I said, & all that you said, to Allan others, & worse to many.
And I know that he is afraid. It is precisely the fear that keeps him from deliverance.
But he can be honest & be freed immediately & then start to unlearn & learn.
I obviated enough for him if he wants out of his enslavements.
Giving ear to his evil intrusions simply gives place to the evil. It doesn't help him or anyone else.
I'm not leaving GS, just leaving, as I said, the evil in his heart - by putting him on ignore - as I said - soon, so the choice is his.
The goodness that overcomes evil is still present here and there on the forums.
The pleasure of your company will continue I trust, Abigail, but I'm not going to talk about Allan anymore.
"Think about it - how different would this world be if instead of fighting each other - we saw the unity."
...
because "the whole family in heavean and earth is named" that IS what Jesus taught.
That is the message of the Torah, it is the message of Jesus, and it is even the message of the Epistles.
...
I find this very interesting, Abigail. The other day, I watched the movie, "The End of the Spear."
Hmm, I guess I have to give a spoiler warning here (but it is nothing the jacket of the movie doesn't tell you pretty much).
It was based on a true story in which missionaries go to the Amazon & witness to a tribe of killers (literally, killing is engrained in their culture). These natives have many gods, but recognize that there is one who is the Supreme God. The missionaries find these natives, & all the fathers/husbands of the missionary families go to witness to them, & the natives kill all of them.
Some of the natives do take note that the men didn't try to fight back, but it doesn't make any sense to them. Then the mothers & children show up (even though their men have just been murdered). The natives let them live because they are no threat. The women witness to them, telling them that the Supreme God had a son who taught us that the Supreme God (some long weird name in the native tongue) doesn't want us to kill each other
The natives have a hard time believing that is a true story, & say something to the effect that, in the real world, someone would shortly take a spear to someone who acted that way. The Women tell them that is exactly what happened, & the Supreme God's son let them do it so that we could live by the Supreme God's will for our lives. Remarkable story. The natives change.
I'm also reminded of Native Americans (who many times believed in many spirits, but also believed in the Great Spirit), who have accounts from thousands of years before the arrival of Europeans that foretold of the birth of the son of the Great Spirit, his murder, & his resurrection - so that not only their tribe, but all the NDN tiibes, and further all the tribes of the earth would know the oneness that ties us to the Great Spirit and one another.
Sounds like a very interesting movie, Tom. I have dabbled in comparative religion and found that the basis of many religions is very similar. Ultimately, I settled on the one that works for me, as I think most people do. It is all part of the journey and the journey never ends, it is only temporarily stayed by our own unwillingness to move forward. But even then, God has a way of giving us a little shove at the appropriate time.
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Abigail
While I can certainly understand how you would come to those conclusions Tom, I think it is a much much sadder case and that Allan is the epitome of what TWI does to a person.
I suspect, somewhere way deep down inside, Allan recognizes the doctrine he clings to for dear life is completely full of holes. This is precisely why people like you, Todd, and Clay scare the crap out of him. Unintentional though it may be, you make those gaping holes undeniably visible. It is fear which causes him to react the way he does - and it is clear,it is reactionary and not thought out.
Likewise, it is that deep down inner nagging he cannot ignore, and this is why he keeps returning here day after day. So I say, keep on talking, because though he doth protest too much, Allan IS listening and very likely hearing EXACTLY what his heart is craving.
Yeah, he ....es me off too, but when the anger subsides there is nothing left but pity. I, too, once clung desperately to that doctrine. I too could not face the notion I had been duped - that I had practiced evil in the name of righteousness. I think many of us go through this to some degree or another after leaving TWI.
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Abigail
"Think about it - how different would this world be if instead of fighting each other - we saw the unity."
Or to put it in terms Allan might understand, if we "endeavored to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace"
because "the gentiles should be fellowheirs and of the same body"
because "the whole family in heavean and earth is named" that IS what Jesus taught.
That is the message of the Torah, it is the message of Jesus, and it is even the message of the Epistles.
The problem is that many muddy the message and many never hear it. Hearing it, is the first step on the journy to the inward path.
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Tom
No doubt, Abigail, TWI did all that I said, & all that you said, to Allan others, & worse to many.
And I know that he is afraid. It is precisely the fear that keeps him from deliverance.
But he can be honest & be freed immediately & then start to unlearn & learn.
I obviated enough for him if he wants out of his enslavements.
Giving ear to his evil intrusions simply gives place to the evil. It doesn't help him or anyone else.
I'm not leaving GS, just leaving, as I said, the evil in his heart - by putting him on ignore - as I said - soon, so the choice is his.
The goodness that overcomes evil is still present here and there on the forums.
The pleasure of your company will continue I trust, Abigail, but I'm not going to talk about Allan anymore.
Love ya,
Tom
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Abigail
I too will remain, Tom, as I gain much from the conversations here and I am glad you will be sticking around a while longer. :)
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Tom
I find this very interesting, Abigail. The other day, I watched the movie, "The End of the Spear."
Hmm, I guess I have to give a spoiler warning here (but it is nothing the jacket of the movie doesn't tell you pretty much).
It was based on a true story in which missionaries go to the Amazon & witness to a tribe of killers (literally, killing is engrained in their culture). These natives have many gods, but recognize that there is one who is the Supreme God. The missionaries find these natives, & all the fathers/husbands of the missionary families go to witness to them, & the natives kill all of them.
Some of the natives do take note that the men didn't try to fight back, but it doesn't make any sense to them. Then the mothers & children show up (even though their men have just been murdered). The natives let them live because they are no threat. The women witness to them, telling them that the Supreme God had a son who taught us that the Supreme God (some long weird name in the native tongue) doesn't want us to kill each other
The natives have a hard time believing that is a true story, & say something to the effect that, in the real world, someone would shortly take a spear to someone who acted that way. The Women tell them that is exactly what happened, & the Supreme God's son let them do it so that we could live by the Supreme God's will for our lives. Remarkable story. The natives change.
I'm also reminded of Native Americans (who many times believed in many spirits, but also believed in the Great Spirit), who have accounts from thousands of years before the arrival of Europeans that foretold of the birth of the son of the Great Spirit, his murder, & his resurrection - so that not only their tribe, but all the NDN tiibes, and further all the tribes of the earth would know the oneness that ties us to the Great Spirit and one another.
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Abigail
Sounds like a very interesting movie, Tom. I have dabbled in comparative religion and found that the basis of many religions is very similar. Ultimately, I settled on the one that works for me, as I think most people do. It is all part of the journey and the journey never ends, it is only temporarily stayed by our own unwillingness to move forward. But even then, God has a way of giving us a little shove at the appropriate time.
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dancing
A tribe of killers...lol.
Reminds me of a tribe I was in once.
Though the killers were mainly at the top positions of the tribe.
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