Rape

[Abigail]

There have been a number of discussions of late regarding sexual abuse and rape. Included in these discussions have been questions regarding what the definition of rape is; where and when the victim may hold some responsibility; and how people react and perhaps over react when this topic comes up.

I have shared a few bits and pieces of my experiences as a female in this world publicly - and even more privately because there are people I know in person who come to the cafe. But I think I will share it all publicly now, in the hopes that it may further understanding on the topic.

My first experiences with sexuality occured when I was very young - probably around 8 or 9 years old. They involved being touched by my brother and his friends. As a young child I understood little of all of the moral implications of what was going on. I did understand my parents would be very upset if they knew. Sometimes when these events occured I was a willing participant - thrilled by all of the attention from my older brother and his friends. Sometimes I was not a willing participant and felt angry and ashamed because I knew my parents would see it as wrong.

Then I hit Jr. high. I developed breasts before many of my classmates. I also lived in a rather rough neighborhood - there was very little parental supervision. For about two years I was almost daily molested by a gang of boys in our neighborhood. It was a university apartment complex and there were "tunnels" that connected the buildings. These boys would force me into the tunnels, kiss and touch me. There was never any penetration and in my mind I have never thought of it as rape (though some would), but merely (and I find it interesting that my mind would still minimalize these events by using the term merely) molestation. I went to my mom about what was going on and she did nothing to help me or to try to stop it. Years later I asked her why she didn't try to protect me, and all she could say is she had no memory of my ever having come to her.

BUT, what I learned from those years of experience was that "no" didn't mean no in a men's world.

My freshman year in high school we moved to a small town near the small town I was born in. For some reason (and I have always assumed it was because I was more developed than the other girls - or perhaps it was simply because I was a new girl - or even because I was from a city) a number of girls decided I was loose. Never mind that I was still a virgin - it made little difference. I did however manage to make a few friends via reconnecting with some girls I knew earlier in my childhood. One night we went to a party (yeah 13 and partying - but that is what one did in the U.P. in those days and even the parents seemed to have little concern about it). During the party a boy grabbed me and shoved me down on the floor. He the started kissing me and touching me. I struggled, but I am tiny. Thankfully, another girl saw what was going on and helped me. Despite the fact that I had a witness - the rumours that followed that night only furthered the reputation I had already been given (note - not earned).

The summer going into my senior year in highschool (we were back in the city again by then) I was date raped by a boy I knew. I wasn't dating him, we were supposedly friends though, so I use that term so as to make it clear someone didn't just jump out of the bushes and grab me. I was not a willing participant - it was forced upon me. I was at a party and we were using nitrous oxcide (then known as whip its - I have no idea what they may be called now). It was really stupid on my part - especially the way we were using them. We didn't have balloons so we were emptying the cannisters into plastic bags and then putting the bags over our heads. We did it in pairs so that someone could watch and make sure we didn't suffocate. (Geez, just typing this makes me feel like such an idea for doing something so incredibly dangerous and dumb)

I had known the boy who had the NO2 for a number of years. I trusted him. He had one cannister left and he invited me into his room to use it. I passed out while inside the plastic bag. When I came too, he was "having his way with me".

That night changed the course of my future. However, it took me nearly 16 years to acknowledge to myself that I had been raped that night. Instead, I took all of the responsibility upon myself. I felt dirty, ashamed, and discusted with myself.

After that night - I would become extremely uncomfortable whenever a man would "hit on me". Especially if it was someone I wasn't interested in. I felt like the word "whore" was written in scarlet letters on me somewhere. I felt very confused and mixed up inside. I didn't even know HOW to send out a clear and convincing "no" anymore. I would just mutter and fumble and try get away from the situation.

Following those events, there were a number of years where I was "less than sexually moral". I didn't know how to say "no" so I said yes in an attempt to try to gain some control over the act when it took place. I also twisted the entire act so that in my mind it meant the person I was having sex with must really care about - even when that was not the case.

Then came TWI and my marriage. During my marriage, my husband very much agreed with and lived by the teachings that "when you are married your body is now longer your own, but your spouses". I did learn how to send a definite "no" during those years, but it did me little good. Afterall, it was "off the word" for me to say no. He would badger me for hours on end. At times he would force himself upon me after I had fallen asleep.

So - to sum this up. Rape can occur in many different fashions. It is NOT limited to the guy who jumps out of the bushes and forces himself upon you. Nor is it limited to the date who forces himself upon you. It can and does occur when you are not in a position to say no. It can and does occur do to coersion and not just physical force.

Molestation and rape can both have long lasting psychological effects that one cannot simply "get over". Sometimes it can even take years for one to get past the denial stage.

[Abigail]

I would add . . .

I know there is a fairly large number of women here who have also faced situations similar to mine, at least at one point in their life. Statistically, the number of women who deal with this in their lives is quite high.

So, whenever this topic is brought up, in whatever forum, it is likely to be an emotionally charged one for at least a handful of the people there, which is why great care should be taken when discussing it.

[Tom Strange]

Abigail, I'm so very glad that your "heart" made it through all of that... I really am.

And I'm also really glad that I've gotten the privilege to know you.

[outofdafog]

Abigail - that was so very courageous of you to share that with us - having been through such terrible ordeals in your life when it comes to this subject, it is understandable that you would react emotionally to the type of things that have been shared here by some posters. I am truly sorry you have had to experience these things in your life, and happy that you felt comfortable enough to share your story here. I hope that you begin the road to healing in your life........you sound like a wonderful woman with a wonderful heart.

May God bring peace to your life...........

[ChattyKathy]

Thank you Abi, your words were actually healing, as horrible as they were at times. Because you're right, it is a highly known thing and certainly would gender such reactions.

You have such gentleness and care. You've shown it here and you have to me in private even more tenderly because it is personal. Amazing how someone with such a story could end up being so wonderful.

[Galen]

We grew up during the same era.

I recall following along with a guy in jr high, who was molesting his younger sister. I have since thought back on that incident many times, in sorrow and horror at what terrible boys some of us were.

While I never slipped any girl a 'mickey', it was also another part of our era. And once we began drinking, the idea of drinking a girl "under-the-table" so that the guy could have his way with her, was also a common thought. I saw it happen and I knew of many who were trying to do jsut that very thing at every party [or so it seemed].

I dont believe that I ever attempted such myself, but I dont think that I was nearly as hard-up as were others. A nice girl that I graduated highschool with [Lisa] has recently found me through googling, and so far catching up with her has been fun. Lisa and I dated briefly when we were seniors, it brought back a lot of memories for both of us. she had to remind me that when she hosted a graduation party at her house, I showed up with two girls [one on each arm]. I had to laugh as I honestly did not remember until she was describing it to me.

In today's society many of these activities [which were fairly common] would today be felonys.

Our society has changed a lot.

As a male member of the society of the 70's, I do apologize for my participation in that behavior, and for it's effects on ladys.

[excathedra]

(((((((( abi ))))))) thanks

reminds me of much of my experience in childhood and the way ministry

dear galen, can you imagine if you were undershepherding as in a ministry and were perfectly sober and did that to some young woman ?

[Nottawayfer]

I know there is a fairly large number of women here who have also faced situations similar to mine, at least at one point in their life. Statistically, the number of women who deal with this in their lives is quite high.

So, whenever this topic is brought up, in whatever forum, it is likely to be an emotionally charged one for at least a handful of the people there, which is why great care should be taken when discussing it.

So true, and thank you Abi. Even though I was never molested as a child, I had many situations come up in my life as a teen in which "no" wasn't taken as "no". There are many girls out there who do end up doing things because they like the attention of the opposite sex. In my case, I didn't have a real relationship with my father. I craved attention from men. I didn't know how a girl should be treated. I had to learn the hard way as many girls have. I have many regrets about my activities as a teenager and young adult. I was never taught to love or respect myself much less have any confidence. It took me a long time to figure out the attention I was getting was ripping me apart.

It is sad when a child tells their parent(s) that something is going on in their life, and they don't do anything about it. I know there are a lot of different reasons. I just hope that our society learns to listen better when a child says something is going on in their lives.

I was just discussing this kind of thing with a friend. She was raped by her step grandfather. Her mother was raped by the same man. She later on asked her mother why she let her be around him as a child. Her mother responded that she thought he had changed.

This subject is a very emotional subject.

[Galen]

... dear galen, can you imagine if you were undershepherding as in a ministry and were perfectly sober and did that to some young woman ?

No, no, never.

However my experiences in TWI were largely different from most GS'ers.

I was in the ministry being close to Our Heavenly Father and ministering to others.

:)

[excathedra]

too sad

denial is sometimes key. since our parents didn't know how to deal with it, it was better that it just didn't happen.... or whatever....

ain't happenin' with my kid :) (please dear god) but i did teach him a lot and he tells me everyting

one father on a class trip took him by the shoulder/neck to "reprove" him and he said "hey, you're in my space" or something like that

i was glad

just don't touch my kid

[outofdafog]

Appears you continue to minister here Galen...........

I accept your apology.....

Imagine going out on a date when you were 16 with a guy that you thought was really great............and he bought along 4 of his friends................

These are the types of things women have to deal with.......

Edited April 29, 2006 by outofdafog

[excathedra]

that response was not to you, galen

yeah i know you were in your own way ministry :) that's cool

you a good man, charlie brown

[Suda]

(((((Abi))))),

So sorry for your pain. Am thankful that is your past, and not your present and future. It is so healing when we can change our mindset from being a victim to being a victor. To make the shift we have to face the past, work through the pain, put the blame at the appropriate feet, and acknowledge our responsibility or lack thereof in the situation. Then, we can control our lives, again, and no longer let the past control our present and future. When we overcome our past, we become conquerors. You sound like a victorious woman to me.

Glad to be a victorious conqueror,

Suda

[excathedra]

great post, ms. sudo (i can't spell your handle)

[Abigail]

Oh Strange One, thank you. And it truly has been a pleasure to get to know you as well. Now where the heck is MY snowcone? :D

Outofdafog, I am doing quite well these days, really. Like many of us, I have my triggers, but in the large scheme of things, they have little effect on my day to day life.

Kathy, back at ya. :)

ExC, I told ya you were my twin from another life

Wayfer, despite the advances that both men and women have made in our culture, it is still difficult growing up female. Especially so when we are lacking in a role model from one gender or the other.

Sudossuda, you have great heart and I am glad you have come to be a part of the Greasespot community.

and Galen,

Last, but most certainly not least. You, like our Strange one, are a gentleman among gentlemen. I think what goes on between brothers and sisters is not unusual in many families. It is often the result of childhood curiosity combined with gaps in adult supervision. I suspect that in and of itself it is not always damaging (which is not to say I condone it or think it is appropriate). I think the damage comes when society condemns us for what we did while we were yet ignorant, or when later sexual hurts occur.

I am actually from the era following yours, a product of the 80's, though it sounds like things were not much different. It was the norm among the guys I knew too - to try to get a girl drunk or stoned and get her into bed. To count their sexual conquests as if the women they slept with were trophies for their mantel piece and not flesh and blood people with brains and hearts.

I have no idea if the boys from the 90's or this decade have changed or not, but I sure hope so. It may simply be a "rite of passage" for males in general, I have no idea. I would never want someone to condemn themself for things they did in their past. We have all done things we are less than proud of. I would only hope we can take something away from this that would encourage us to be better people in the future. And I would hope it would help shed some light to those who are still somewhat in the dark, as to why this is such a highly charged topic here at the forums. I know there are a number of women here who have experienced far worse than I.

And it is funny you should mention your lady friend from school. For me, it was reconnecting with a high school sweet heart, after some 15 or 16 years of silence - and talking through our history, that I was finally able to come to terms with my own past and begin to put it behind me.

[ChattyKathy]

Some of the kewlest things have been said in a thread with such a name as rape.

[topoftheworld]

Thank you for sharing, Abi. I can appreciate how difficult that was for you.

I doubt things have changed: issues with men and women (especially young ones) have been going on since the dawn of time: just the names have changed. All that can be done is to continue to educate and communicate issues such as the ones you've brought up

[SafariVista]

((((Abigail))))

I had no idea. How horrible for you to have to have gone through all of that.

Damn that TWI for promoting those stupid lies about marriage

My experience was nothing like yours... and my mother called the parents of the High School Senior right away... she had a German Police Whistle, and if we didn't yell out that we heard her, she was on it right away...

She was 'whistling', and I was being 'held' under the trees at Madonna's house.... :unsure: I was in 8th grade, and the guy insisted that I give him a BJ... I told him 'hear that, my Mom would be here any minuet'... He took off

I'm so sorry for all your horrible pain~

[coolchef1248 @adelphia.net]

abi

thank you for opening your heart to share you life like this

i am so happy that you are happy now

i don't usually say this but god bless you

[Abigail]

I long ago got over most of the shame of my past. I can't say all of it, because there is one person who would still like to beat me over the head with it and I have allowed him to get away with it.

Once, several years ago now, I think, I posted some of my story in the my story forums. I eventually deleted the posts. I even went so far as to register under a new name, to protect myself from the fall-out of my posts. Perhaps for me, sharing this here as "Abigail" is another necessary step for me too - to stand up and NOT allow someone else to continue to try and shame me for my past. Though my shame comes not from the things that were done to me against my will, but for the choices I made, that hurt others, as I worked my way through the emotional mire I found myself in.

Some of those choices have been posted here in the past - by the one who would like to shame me. I know a few of you saw it before it was deleted and I was overwhelmed by the loving support I received. So to add more to this topic, in light of recent events here, I would empatically say NO, I would not condemn one for the choices they too may have made in the past, that others would view as morally lacking. I wish only to point out what an incredibly sensative topic this is and how terribly important it is that we choose our words carefully when dealing with it.

Edited April 30, 2006 by Abigail

[J0nny Ling0]

I think that rape is like, really mean...

[Nottawayfer]

I was thinking back to some of my own experiences as a teenager. I remember being at a party (alcohol was present), and I was bouncing quarters with 4 other guys. They all decided to gang up on me and make me drink every time one of them made the quarter in the glass, which was every time. I was getting really drunk and not able to even bounce the quarter in the glass myself. I was getting kind of sick of the scenario as I felt I was being ganged up on. I told them I was quitting and got a ration of $h*t from them. Right at that time, my cousin (a guy and about 7 years old than I am) showed up and saved me.

The moral of the story is that I shouldn't have been there, but why did those boys think that it was time to gang up on me to get me drunk? What were their intentions? Thankfully that situation didn't turn in to more than it did. It is a real thing in life that women need to be more cautious in situations to protect themselves. If I had a teenage girl right now, I would be teaching her according to my own experiences. If I had a teenage boy, I would be drilling it in to his brain that he had to treat women with respect and to never hang out with guys who didn't. I am sure there are a lot of parents who do this. The scarey part is the ones who don't.

Edited April 30, 2006 by Wayfer Not

[Galen]

I was thinking back to some of my own experiences as a teenager. I remember being at a party (alcohol was present), and I was bouncing quarters with 4 other guys. They all decided to gang up on me and make me drink every time one of them made the quarter in the glass, which was every time. I was getting really drunk and not able to even bounce the quarter in the glass myself. I was getting kind of sick of the scenario as I felt I was being ganged up on. I told them I was quitting and got a ration of $h*t from them. Right at that time, my cousin (a guy and about 7 years old than I am) showed up and saved me.

The moral of the story is that I shouldn't have been there, but why did those boys think that it was time to gang up on me to get me drunk? What were their intentions? ...

I can answer that.

I assure you that during your 'game of bouncing quarters' as soon as you went along with the idea of matching all of them, those guys had already worked out their system of who was going to go first, and who was going to get 'sloppy-seconds, etc.

[penguin]

(((Abi))

Thanks for sharing your story here.

Ironically for me, it was the boyfriend who was a part of twi that continually forced himself on me.....not the high school football player I went to prom with. When I told my twig coordinators and asked their advice I was given no help. At that time I was 15 and he was 18.

[Bramble]

When I was in college there was a certain floor in a men's dorm that had a bunch of 'freshman mixers'. Drinking age was 18 in Montana back then. I remember older girls warning us not to get drunk at those parties because those guys kept a scoreboard of freshman girls they nailed.

I always had a group of friends who watched out for each other. Even guy friends who'd warn you about a guy(he's a pig type comments)