Since I don't buy the TWI theology, you'll excuse me for not buying the premise of your question. Now if you'd like to reconsider the premise, then I'd be pleased to give you an answer.
I believe that at the gathering together we will all be spiritual beings as it is the spirit that returns to God. In his resurrected body, Jesus Christ was recognized at times, others he was not. So it's not definite that we will always recognize who is among us in heaven. But since we'll no longer have mortal thoughts, I guess we won't be bothered by our emotions like we are today, no matter who we do or do not see there.
I believe the Way ministry used the word rapture to prove a point they believe
While I look forward to seeing My Lord Jesus the Christ in the air and all the people who are but of the dead in Christ standing beside Christ as the elders
I all so look forward to see all that have the living Christ in them the seed of holy spirit the alive in Christ
But about VPW I believe he may of been a loving believer at one time so I do not know and as for Craig there must be hope for him because from what I hear the Way kict him out too but I do not know
What is your story. Are you amillinial (sp)? It is my guess you have a catholic or reformed background and think the rapture is a new doctrine that is only 200 some odd years old. tell me how I can rephrase the question for you?
"I" (get it..."I"....from my point of view...no reflections on anyone else)....think at the return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the gathering together of his saints, that this won't even be an issue because there will be no pain, reflection, etc. I also no longer believe the "once saved, always saved" promoted by TWI. I believe this due to Romans 11. The 'firstfruits, lump, root,' etc. is Israel. The wild olive tree branches are the Gentiles. Says they can be broken off just as easily as they were grafted in. Only God knows where VPW was in his heart at death and where LCM is now in reference to this area in Romans or where he will be should he die before the return. THIS IS MY OPINION AND NOT POSTED FOR DEBATE.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his]goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Sogwap, I don't want to debate, just want to ask you,
What does it mean to "continue in his goodness"? What have you been taught that means?
Well I think I Thessalonians 4:16,17 applies to the gathering together.
16. For the lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God and the dead in christ shall rise first.
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the lord
Now it is very clear that these verses show us the return of christ and the gathering together of the believers. The verses also show us that we will be with the lord forever after the return.
What is your story. Are you amillinial (sp)? It is my guess you have a catholic or reformed background and think the rapture is a new doctrine that is only 200 some odd years old. tell me how I can rephrase the question for you?
The premillenial/postmillenial/amillenial issue is not so much the question as the issue of eternal security. I am not willing to stipulate that premise.
There have been a number of threads on that subject here, but I'd be happy to discuss it once again if needed...
If we don't stipulate that as a premise, the discussion would take a whole different tack, as I'm sure you'd appreciate.
The reason why I didn't just dismiss that premise and answer according to the theology to which I subscribe is that this would take the thread in a completely different direction than which you might want to go.
I'm more than willing to go down that road; I just don't know if you wish to do so.
"What do people (those who were involved with TWI) still think about the gathering together?"
Honestly, I simply don't think about it much. In part, because I am no longer certain what I believe with regards to the next life. But mostly, because I have enough to think about just dealing with the here and now and I don't care to spend much time on thinking about something that I cannot even "see" down the road. And finally, because regardless of what I believe about it, I may be right and I may be wrong - no one will know until the time comes.
As for LCM and VPW - well I am mostly indifferent about VPW, probably because he died long before I ever got involved with TWI. LCM I have a tougher time with and how I would feel would probably depend on the day. How would I respond though - would probably be with politeness and courtesy as long as he treated me with the same.
I have my doubts that should "The rapture" occur tonight (and if I am a part of it), I would spot LCM flying through the air toward Jesus, his rainbow cape a-flapping. But who knows.
As for the "rapture" theory itself, - if not in the precise manner as has been expressed through dispensational teaching the past couple centuries - the elements have always been there in one form or another in support of something akin to such a belief, as might be gathered from the following Patristic citations:
Such a “Deliverer” . . .kidnapper . . . no other than this is the character of Marcion’s God, swooping upon an alien world, snatching away man from his god . . . –Tertullian, Adversus Marcionem, I.24
. . .You have said that that [your God] has a creation of His own, His own world, and His own sky . . .
–Tertullian, Adversus Marcionem, I.15
Since then all things are seen and heard [by the World Creator], let us fear Him, and forsake those wicked works which proceed from evil desires; so that, through His mercy, we may be protected from the judgments to come. For whither can any of us flee from His mighty hand? Or what world will receive any of those who run away from Him? – Clement of Rome, I Corinthians, 28.
Denying honor to this creation and to this earth, they pretend that a new earth was made for them, to which they will depart from here. – Plotinus, Enn. II.9; ch.5
When I get to the Gathering together I'll be too busy greeting friends and family and basking in the radiance of GOD and Jesus Christ to even notice one way or the other
When I get to the Gathering together I'll be too busy greeting friends and family and basking in the radiance of GOD and Jesus Christ to even notice one way or the other
That is very nice, I think that so many people here need to chill out. People are saying what they are going to do if they see VPW. Why even worry about VPW, I mean really you have everything to think about in the gathering together. The first thing some of you came up with was this is what I will do if VPW is there. While I think some of you are of track I think Temp has got it right, be blessed to be there and greet others who meet us.
if you still believe what you were taught regarding this you have to think about seeing LCM and VPW when you meet the Lord in the air.
I have to? No, I don't have to! I'm thinking YOU have to. But be delivered from having to by thinking about the Lord.
When I meet the Lord, I'm going to be thinking about the Lord. If ever I thought or will think about the Lord, when I meet him, that's when I certainly will be thinking about the Lord.
I no longer believe that there is such a thing as "the gathering together", or rapture, or whatever you want to call it. I also consider it quite unlikely that I will be running into Martindale any time soon, so it's kind of a moot point. Once he's dead, I would imagine he'll be remembered fondly by very few.
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markomalley
Since I don't buy the TWI theology, you'll excuse me for not buying the premise of your question. Now if you'd like to reconsider the premise, then I'd be pleased to give you an answer.
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Suda
I believe that at the gathering together we will all be spiritual beings as it is the spirit that returns to God. In his resurrected body, Jesus Christ was recognized at times, others he was not. So it's not definite that we will always recognize who is among us in heaven. But since we'll no longer have mortal thoughts, I guess we won't be bothered by our emotions like we are today, no matter who we do or do not see there.
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Goey
Since it is not ours to decide who goes to heaven or who does not, I think that speculation along those lines is foolishness.
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year2027
God first
Beloved rickyg
God loves you my dear friend
I believe the Way ministry used the word rapture to prove a point they believe
While I look forward to seeing My Lord Jesus the Christ in the air and all the people who are but of the dead in Christ standing beside Christ as the elders
I all so look forward to see all that have the living Christ in them the seed of holy spirit the alive in Christ
But about VPW I believe he may of been a loving believer at one time so I do not know and as for Craig there must be hope for him because from what I hear the Way kict him out too but I do not know
Its Not my place to say even if God told me
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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WordWolf
I can tell you how I'd feel NOW-with my CURRENT mindset-
if I was at a meeting with all the Christians I'd want to meet currently living-
if lcm was there.
(I can make a hypothetical based on CURRENT mindset.)
I would just avoid him, neither approaching nor acknowledging him
unless I ended up face-to-face with him.
I'd care about others, but be indifferent to him.
Anything else, I'll have to wait and see.
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rickyg
markomally,
What is your story. Are you amillinial (sp)? It is my guess you have a catholic or reformed background and think the rapture is a new doctrine that is only 200 some odd years old. tell me how I can rephrase the question for you?
Edited by rickygLink to comment
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sogwap51
"I" (get it..."I"....from my point of view...no reflections on anyone else)....think at the return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the gathering together of his saints, that this won't even be an issue because there will be no pain, reflection, etc. I also no longer believe the "once saved, always saved" promoted by TWI. I believe this due to Romans 11. The 'firstfruits, lump, root,' etc. is Israel. The wild olive tree branches are the Gentiles. Says they can be broken off just as easily as they were grafted in. Only God knows where VPW was in his heart at death and where LCM is now in reference to this area in Romans or where he will be should he die before the return. THIS IS MY OPINION AND NOT POSTED FOR DEBATE.
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oldiesman
Sogwap, I don't want to debate, just want to ask you,
What does it mean to "continue in his goodness"? What have you been taught that means?
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ckmkeon
Well I think I Thessalonians 4:16,17 applies to the gathering together.
16. For the lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God and the dead in christ shall rise first.
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the lord
Now it is very clear that these verses show us the return of christ and the gathering together of the believers. The verses also show us that we will be with the lord forever after the return.
CK
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markomalley
The premillenial/postmillenial/amillenial issue is not so much the question as the issue of eternal security. I am not willing to stipulate that premise.
There have been a number of threads on that subject here, but I'd be happy to discuss it once again if needed...
If we don't stipulate that as a premise, the discussion would take a whole different tack, as I'm sure you'd appreciate.
The reason why I didn't just dismiss that premise and answer according to the theology to which I subscribe is that this would take the thread in a completely different direction than which you might want to go.
I'm more than willing to go down that road; I just don't know if you wish to do so.
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Abigail
"What do people (those who were involved with TWI) still think about the gathering together?"
Honestly, I simply don't think about it much. In part, because I am no longer certain what I believe with regards to the next life. But mostly, because I have enough to think about just dealing with the here and now and I don't care to spend much time on thinking about something that I cannot even "see" down the road. And finally, because regardless of what I believe about it, I may be right and I may be wrong - no one will know until the time comes.
As for LCM and VPW - well I am mostly indifferent about VPW, probably because he died long before I ever got involved with TWI. LCM I have a tougher time with and how I would feel would probably depend on the day. How would I respond though - would probably be with politeness and courtesy as long as he treated me with the same.
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TheInvisibleDan
I have my doubts that should "The rapture" occur tonight (and if I am a part of it), I would spot LCM flying through the air toward Jesus, his rainbow cape a-flapping. But who knows.
As for the "rapture" theory itself, - if not in the precise manner as has been expressed through dispensational teaching the past couple centuries - the elements have always been there in one form or another in support of something akin to such a belief, as might be gathered from the following Patristic citations:
Danny
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George Aar
I'm looking forward to meeting Spiderman there...
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Bluzeman
If I get to the gathering together and see LCM and VPW, I'd have to quote Ned Flanders:
"Dang, Heaven must be eaiser to get into than Arizona State."
Rick
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templelady
When I get to the Gathering together I'll be too busy greeting friends and family and basking in the radiance of GOD and Jesus Christ to even notice one way or the other
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ckmkeon
That is very nice, I think that so many people here need to chill out. People are saying what they are going to do if they see VPW. Why even worry about VPW, I mean really you have everything to think about in the gathering together. The first thing some of you came up with was this is what I will do if VPW is there. While I think some of you are of track I think Temp has got it right, be blessed to be there and greet others who meet us.
CK
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Tom
I have to? No, I don't have to! I'm thinking YOU have to. But be delivered from having to by thinking about the Lord.
When I meet the Lord, I'm going to be thinking about the Lord. If ever I thought or will think about the Lord, when I meet him, that's when I certainly will be thinking about the Lord.
Doctrinally threading thoughts,
Tom
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Oakspear
I no longer believe that there is such a thing as "the gathering together", or rapture, or whatever you want to call it. I also consider it quite unlikely that I will be running into Martindale any time soon, so it's kind of a moot point. Once he's dead, I would imagine he'll be remembered fondly by very few.
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George Aar
"Once he's dead, I would imagine he'll be remembered fondly by very few."
He'll still make good fertilizer though...
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GrouchoMarxJr
Lcm...Vpw?...Hell, how will you feel if you see Jeffery Dahmer there?
...I too am looking forward to meeting Spiderman.
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