Would [you] talk to someone in person the way that you compose posts on GS?
I'll take the liberty of inserting 'you' in the question cuz that's what I think you're asking...
I'm pretty sure that I'd 'talk to someone in person' the same way that I post... because that's how I try to post... sometimes there's a problem though in understanding the written/typed words versus the spoken/seen words... at least for me...
Like you though... I do sometimes wonder if some posts would be as 'volatile' or 'invective' filled if we were in the same 'real life' cafe...
I write like I talk and can often be seen speaking as I'm typing. Gives all the folks in this cube farm something to smile about as they pass my cube. :P
People who know me very well say they can "hear" me speaking my post because I write so much like I talk. I never put anything in print that I wouldn't say to someone's face. You never know when/if you might meet them in person and, besides that, it's just crude. People in cyberspace deserve the same respect, courtesy and treatment as they do in real life.
And, yeah, when I'm mad - I still type like I talk and it's still what I'd say in person....ask my 6'4" neighbor whose dog kept waking me up at 3am. I try to be mature and I don't always succeed, but I don't always succed in real life either. It's still me, though.
Ya know, Oak, I remember working on the telephone and how rude folks would be on the phone. You did too, didn't you? They'll say things to us over the telephone that they would never say to a person's face - whether they knew them or not. I think it just gets worse in the totally ethereal environment of the world wide web.
I find that I lose interest in a thread very quickly once the name-calling starts. What's funny is that it often starts with one person's calm disagreement with another poster (perhaps the thread originator), who can't believe that anyone in his right mind could have a different opinion. Then we're off to the battle, as defenders of both posters enter the fray. Occasionally, someone will try to interject a useful tidbit; but it's usually ignored, and the battle rages.
This thread has the potential of changing people. I'm not angry at individual posters but it is hard to take when that concrete wall of disbelief on the part of a poster or 2 is a consistent challenge. Also - there was a time when the organization had many individuals in many places across the country, so just because something was prevalent in your area, doesn't mean it was also in mine....and I need to recognize that fact. Abject denial makes innocent victims into "liars".
Speaking for myself and others who have looked here, but don't post..there is a reason you know...
I call it, negative juju. (for fun)
I needed GS to help me vent and learn and get out of the Way mindset, way-colored glasses what have you.... for a season. I don't post as much anymore for the simple reason that I am healed in many categories. GS has helped a lot. Most from my new relationship with Christ and a great bible class I am going to ...................
Some folks need more healing time than others, and to come here and watch the lashing out, back and forth, slaming, negative talk does not help them..
They are trying to leave or have left something that already did that.
Whether or not most of us are still "Christian", we should maintain a sense of godliness, a healing balm to the folks that are searching .....otherwise they see the attitude and don't want any part of it! And God forbid that it turns them off and makes them stay in TWI just one day longer, makes me sad.
I find that I lose interest in a thread very quickly once the name-calling starts. What's funny is that it often starts with one person's calm disagreement with another poster (perhaps the thread originator), who can't believe that anyone in his right mind could have a different opinion. Then we're off to the battle, as defenders of both posters enter the fray. Occasionally, someone will try to interject a useful tidbit; but it's usually ignored, and the battle rages.
I agree with you 500 %GeorgeStGeorge ! When a good thread degenerates into a name-calling, while-I-got-everybody's-attention-let-me-attack-your-other-beliefs/povs - that's when I bow out.
Thanks, Oakspear - great idea for a thread - afraid we'll all have to be reminded of this occasionally.
It would be nice if we could all agree to disagree on things and leave it at that... but then the TWI folks would see people disagreeing there as well...
It would be a kinder, gentler place... but that's cyberspace for you... no fear of retaliation... which in a way is good...
I would think that if someone came here really looking for a reason to get out they'd still find it... but I'm also of the opinion that folks who come here from TWI have already pretty much made up their minds that 'something is wrong in Denmark' and are seeking validation or comraderie... and we certainly offer many different flavors of validation and comraderie!
I actually don't post like I speak. In live conversation, I'd be much quicker to just start laughing at someone who was speaking like a jerk, and end the conversation. I try to post here with a view to the words still being here long after the conversation is over.
When a raw nerve gets touched...it causes a quite painful reaction...like biting into ice cream when I have a cavity...or stubbing my toe against a brick. OUCH!!! And I gotta tell ya, 'ouch' isn't the only thing that comes outta my mouth when something like that happens.
That used to bother me to no end...that automatic string of expletives...'cause in twi I was taught 'better' than that...
But omg! I LOVE to cuss!!! When me and Louise Darlene Thelma get on the phone together, we just cuss for 15 minutes or so...'cause it's just so danged fun...and it makes us laugh...and get over ourselves...and gives us a humorous, effective outlet for the frustrations of the day/week/month/whatever.
I do not recommend that for GSC, however...unless it's in PM, email, or something.
Anyway, something that was said way back in trancenet days was, "hurting people hurt people". Meaning that those who are hurting tend to hurt others. I don't think for one minute that the vast majority of those who are hurting intend to hurt others. I certainly don't...and never did (well, except in one instance)...but absolutely not now at all.
One of the things I was denied in twi...and in my life before and after twi...was the opportunity to work through very bad situations with others.
The very first place I was afforded that opportunity was right here at GSC.
It took being banned and moderated heavily on more than one occasion before I began to grasp what I was doing. Even then, if folks had not continued to communicate with me via email and telephone calls, I would not have understood anything.
Because I plain old had no clue.
Really. That simple.
I had no clue how to express all the things inside of me without also dumping all that horridness onto everybody else.
How would I have had a clue? I didn't get it from my parents. I didn't get it from twi. I didn't get it from other people I was around.
Every time I tried in life to rage against the machine, I was beaten down in some way...physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally...you name it, I got it.
That made me skittish, to say the least. Early on at WayDale somebody compared me to a feral animal. I've never forgotten that...because it hurt more than anything else for a very long time...and because I now understand what she was trying to say to me. I truly was like a feral animal. People would try to get close to me...and I snarled and nipped and growled...and bit if I had to. If anybody touched me...whoa! It was all out war...and the war was never-ending...because in my mind I was fighting for my life.
But I learned...through the unbelievable patience and understanding of some people who just wouldn't write me off as a lost cause...and leave me to be that feral animal.
I like how GSC handles things nowadays. Edit or delete posts that are intended to hurt/inflame/whatever without adding one iota to the conversation. Give warnings. Give opportunity to talk things out one-on-one in PM or email or on the telephone. Moderate if that stuff fails. Ban only as a last ditch effort. Always giving the opportunity to rejoin the community here.
I dunno.
I have been tremendously thankful that I was not given up on.
I have also been tremendously thankful that when it was needed action was taken to separate me and/or my posts from the group...AND every effort humanly possible was put forth to help me learn how to co-exist without ripping anyone or anything to shreds.
It was something I needed...not just to be able to function here at GSC...but to function in 3D.
Life is not very 'clean' in reality. And, oh sheesh!, life in twi was not sane, much less 'nice', for many, many of us. It's gonna get ugly around here...because we are talking about ugly.
I just think that those who are living in the bubble now, or have recently come out of the bubble, can benefit from the opportunity to watch things get ugly...and then watch them come back to pretty good...because of the effort put forth to get them back to good.
To answer your question directly Oak, yes, I think people say things in a forum that they wouldn't say face-to-face and one-on-one. I think that people just tend to be nicer face-to-face, plus there's the tone of voice and body english feedback. OTOH, if we could get *all* the GS participants face-to-face at the same time, I hate to think of what a shouting match it might turn into.
It's not just the name calling, it's the assumption that those who we disagree with are stupid or evil.
Another thing that a fellow poster pointed out to me a few years ago was that often the forum discussions are nothing of the sort, but merely posters with opposing viewpoints talking past each other. How often is evidence ignored by those whose minds will never be changed? And how often do we mistake our deeply held opinions as "evidence"?
Me so recently left....the sounds of GSC are the sounds of FREEDOM and INDIVUAL opinions. As I stated on another thread, Ex 10 said to me, "The silence has been deafening...no?" in regard to TWI.
I NEVER, NEVER, EVER WANT TO LIVE THAT "HUSH-SH-sh" AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
However I do shy from the more inflamed threads. I just plain old don't like arguing. I do like respectfully agreeing to disagree.
I don't know if I post the way I talk. Anybody out there that knows me...do I post the way I talk?
What a paradox....arguing (T. Strange's "gottabee-rits") and not feeling free to express individual opinions both remind me of TWI. :blink:
I don't know if I post the way I talk. Anybody out there that knows me...do I post the way I talk?
Yeah Pipes you post the way you talk at least as far as I remember going back 25 years. You always talked honestly, caringly and far more than decently and you post the same.
This board should be a place where people can have the chance to express themselves,air out what needs to be aired out.We all had or are having different expierences,People lurk here sometimes never posting.
I know when I do I am mostly ignored,Gs has its own little click,so be it.I came here with alot of questions
What is going on? was the biggest,Then when the crap hit the fan,Gs became legitimate in the sense that
twi was seriously flawed.
In person I am a good conversationalist but writing..well that leaves something to be desired.Let people have thier say here because twi would never allow any thoughts comments ect outside thier rigid command.
There are some really great people here,you have some great abilities,Gs allows you the chance to get in the nitty gritty,So peace all.
My tone is probably the same, but I write differently than I talk. I might write more like I think. Kinda scarey, that. But I don't think I'd write anything that I wouldn't say face to face in conversation. Writing it here allows for more time to think and in most cases, not write anything.
Every few days seems like, I write a response or a thread topic, spend time on it and then delete it and go on about my evening. I almost always read it back and don't see it adding anything new, other than the wonderful "sound" of my own written voice. Most of what I write never makes it on the board so that's at least one thing to be thankful for. :) But it's a strain for me to fit my current thought lines into the context of the Way and most of the subject matter. I probably don't "belong here' but I do like to visit.
sogwap posted recently about her experiences and I thought it was pretty enlightening. It brought up a whole range of points that don't get discussed often because people with her experience and viewpoint don't often post it, or post here at all I guess. So it spoke directly to a part of Way history that doesn't get discussed by the people most qualified to discuss it - those who lived it. In fact, I think it would shed a lot of light on the goings on of those times if there was more of that information shared and talked about. It might also give a better view of how things progressed in the Way over the years.
Fabulous thread, Oakspear, and great comments from all. You expressed my concerns about the bitterness I sometimes encounter on these threads much better than I was able to express my thoughts and feelings. Thanks.
Ya'know, it's not at all about writing styles, or "smoothness" of speech, IMHO. One poster that I can think of has the most atrocious grammar, and is extremely hard to follow logically, yet is always respectful of others' feelings and opinions; gives the impression that he wouldn't hurt a fly, while others speak very well, but use their skill with language to cut and hurt.
Another thing that I have noted is we tend to cut some slack to people who we have met face-to-face, or know outside the forums...in "real life". We can put a face to the typed words and at least superficially know the person behind the screen.
One way we can help keep these discussions more reasonable is self-policing. I'm not talking about more for the moderators to do, but "allies" in different arguments keeping each other calm. For example, if I am getting nasty on an agnostic or atheist thread, George Aar or Sudo might be the one to help point out that I am getting out of line, since I know that we have similar opinions. There have been many times when I have thought that people that I have agreed with were stating their case illogically, or needlessly attacking someone they disagreed with and stood idly by, figuring that "the other side" could defend their own without help from me.
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Tom Strange
I'll take the liberty of inserting 'you' in the question cuz that's what I think you're asking...
I'm pretty sure that I'd 'talk to someone in person' the same way that I post... because that's how I try to post... sometimes there's a problem though in understanding the written/typed words versus the spoken/seen words... at least for me...
Like you though... I do sometimes wonder if some posts would be as 'volatile' or 'invective' filled if we were in the same 'real life' cafe...
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Belle
I write like I talk and can often be seen speaking as I'm typing. Gives all the folks in this cube farm something to smile about as they pass my cube. :P
People who know me very well say they can "hear" me speaking my post because I write so much like I talk. I never put anything in print that I wouldn't say to someone's face. You never know when/if you might meet them in person and, besides that, it's just crude. People in cyberspace deserve the same respect, courtesy and treatment as they do in real life.
And, yeah, when I'm mad - I still type like I talk and it's still what I'd say in person....ask my 6'4" neighbor whose dog kept waking me up at 3am.
I try to be mature and I don't always succeed, but I don't always succed in real life either. It's still me, though. 
Ya know, Oak, I remember working on the telephone and how rude folks would be on the phone. You did too, didn't you? They'll say things to us over the telephone that they would never say to a person's face - whether they knew them or not. I think it just gets worse in the totally ethereal environment of the world wide web.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I find that I lose interest in a thread very quickly once the name-calling starts. What's funny is that it often starts with one person's calm disagreement with another poster (perhaps the thread originator), who can't believe that anyone in his right mind could have a different opinion. Then we're off to the battle, as defenders of both posters enter the fray. Occasionally, someone will try to interject a useful tidbit; but it's usually ignored, and the battle rages.
You, know, this might be a good TV show!
George
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krys
This thread has the potential of changing people. I'm not angry at individual posters but it is hard to take when that concrete wall of disbelief on the part of a poster or 2 is a consistent challenge. Also - there was a time when the organization had many individuals in many places across the country, so just because something was prevalent in your area, doesn't mean it was also in mine....and I need to recognize that fact. Abject denial makes innocent victims into "liars".
Thanks for starting this thread Oakspear.
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bliss
Speaking for myself and others who have looked here, but don't post..there is a reason you know...
I call it, negative juju. (for fun)
I needed GS to help me vent and learn and get out of the Way mindset, way-colored glasses what have you.... for a season. I don't post as much anymore for the simple reason that I am healed in many categories. GS has helped a lot. Most from my new relationship with Christ and a great bible class I am going to ...................
Some folks need more healing time than others, and to come here and watch the lashing out, back and forth, slaming, negative talk does not help them..
They are trying to leave or have left something that already did that.
Whether or not most of us are still "Christian", we should maintain a sense of godliness, a healing balm to the folks that are searching .....otherwise they see the attitude and don't want any part of it! And God forbid that it turns them off and makes them stay in TWI just one day longer, makes me sad.
peace
bliss
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T-Bone
I agree with you 500 % GeorgeStGeorge ! When a good thread degenerates into a name-calling, while-I-got-everybody's-attention-let-me-attack-your-other-beliefs/povs - that's when I bow out.
Thanks, Oakspear - great idea for a thread - afraid we'll all have to be reminded of this occasionally.
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Tom Strange
It would be nice if we could all agree to disagree on things and leave it at that... but then the TWI folks would see people disagreeing there as well...
It would be a kinder, gentler place... but that's cyberspace for you... no fear of retaliation... which in a way is good...
I would think that if someone came here really looking for a reason to get out they'd still find it... but I'm also of the opinion that folks who come here from TWI have already pretty much made up their minds that 'something is wrong in Denmark' and are seeking validation or comraderie... and we certainly offer many different flavors of validation and comraderie!
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shazdancer
I actually don't post like I speak. In live conversation, I'd be much quicker to just start laughing at someone who was speaking like a jerk, and end the conversation. I try to post here with a view to the words still being here long after the conversation is over.
Regards,
Shaz
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CoolWaters
When a raw nerve gets touched...it causes a quite painful reaction...like biting into ice cream when I have a cavity...or stubbing my toe against a brick. OUCH!!! And I gotta tell ya, 'ouch' isn't the only thing that comes outta my mouth when something like that happens.
That used to bother me to no end...that automatic string of expletives...'cause in twi I was taught 'better' than that...
But omg! I LOVE to cuss!!! When me and Louise Darlene Thelma get on the phone together, we just cuss for 15 minutes or so...'cause it's just so danged fun...and it makes us laugh...and get over ourselves...and gives us a humorous, effective outlet for the frustrations of the day/week/month/whatever.
I do not recommend that for GSC, however...unless it's in PM, email, or something.
Anyway, something that was said way back in trancenet days was, "hurting people hurt people". Meaning that those who are hurting tend to hurt others. I don't think for one minute that the vast majority of those who are hurting intend to hurt others. I certainly don't...and never did (well, except in one instance)...but absolutely not now at all.
One of the things I was denied in twi...and in my life before and after twi...was the opportunity to work through very bad situations with others.
The very first place I was afforded that opportunity was right here at GSC.
It took being banned and moderated heavily on more than one occasion before I began to grasp what I was doing. Even then, if folks had not continued to communicate with me via email and telephone calls, I would not have understood anything.
Because I plain old had no clue.
Really. That simple.
I had no clue how to express all the things inside of me without also dumping all that horridness onto everybody else.
How would I have had a clue? I didn't get it from my parents. I didn't get it from twi. I didn't get it from other people I was around.
Every time I tried in life to rage against the machine, I was beaten down in some way...physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally...you name it, I got it.
That made me skittish, to say the least. Early on at WayDale somebody compared me to a feral animal. I've never forgotten that...because it hurt more than anything else for a very long time...and because I now understand what she was trying to say to me. I truly was like a feral animal. People would try to get close to me...and I snarled and nipped and growled...and bit if I had to. If anybody touched me...whoa! It was all out war...and the war was never-ending...because in my mind I was fighting for my life.
But I learned...through the unbelievable patience and understanding of some people who just wouldn't write me off as a lost cause...and leave me to be that feral animal.
I like how GSC handles things nowadays. Edit or delete posts that are intended to hurt/inflame/whatever without adding one iota to the conversation. Give warnings. Give opportunity to talk things out one-on-one in PM or email or on the telephone. Moderate if that stuff fails. Ban only as a last ditch effort. Always giving the opportunity to rejoin the community here.
I dunno.
I have been tremendously thankful that I was not given up on.
I have also been tremendously thankful that when it was needed action was taken to separate me and/or my posts from the group...AND every effort humanly possible was put forth to help me learn how to co-exist without ripping anyone or anything to shreds.
It was something I needed...not just to be able to function here at GSC...but to function in 3D.
Life is not very 'clean' in reality. And, oh sheesh!, life in twi was not sane, much less 'nice', for many, many of us. It's gonna get ugly around here...because we are talking about ugly.
I just think that those who are living in the bubble now, or have recently come out of the bubble, can benefit from the opportunity to watch things get ugly...and then watch them come back to pretty good...because of the effort put forth to get them back to good.
But that's just my opinion and my experiences.
I'm really an extreme case.
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Jim
To answer your question directly Oak, yes, I think people say things in a forum that they wouldn't say face-to-face and one-on-one. I think that people just tend to be nicer face-to-face, plus there's the tone of voice and body english feedback. OTOH, if we could get *all* the GS participants face-to-face at the same time, I hate to think of what a shouting match it might turn into.
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Oakspear
It's not just the name calling, it's the assumption that those who we disagree with are stupid or evil.
Another thing that a fellow poster pointed out to me a few years ago was that often the forum discussions are nothing of the sort, but merely posters with opposing viewpoints talking past each other. How often is evidence ignored by those whose minds will never be changed? And how often do we mistake our deeply held opinions as "evidence"?
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Tom Strange
Many suffer from "Gottabee-ritis"... it's true... it's part of "our" combined heritage here...
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templelady
I post the way I talk--Just ask CW if you don't believe me
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I Love Bagpipes
Great thread Oakspear.
Me so recently left....the sounds of GSC are the sounds of FREEDOM and INDIVUAL opinions. As I stated on another thread, Ex 10 said to me, "The silence has been deafening...no?" in regard to TWI.
I NEVER, NEVER, EVER WANT TO LIVE THAT "HUSH-SH-sh" AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
However I do shy from the more inflamed threads. I just plain old don't like arguing. I do like respectfully agreeing to disagree.
I don't know if I post the way I talk. Anybody out there that knows me...do I post the way I talk?
What a paradox....arguing (T. Strange's "gottabee-rits") and not feeling free to express individual opinions both remind me of TWI. :blink:
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RumRunner
Yeah Pipes you post the way you talk at least as far as I remember going back 25 years. You always talked honestly, caringly and far more than decently and you post the same.
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dmiller
I have a very hard time *bashing* anyone ---
be it online, or face to face. :)
(But --- that's just me.) ;)
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frank123lol
I know when I do I am mostly ignored,Gs has its own little click,so be it.I came here with alot of questions
What is going on? was the biggest,Then when the crap hit the fan,Gs became legitimate in the sense that
twi was seriously flawed.
In person I am a good conversationalist but writing..well that leaves something to be desired.Let people have thier say here because twi would never allow any thoughts comments ect outside thier rigid command.
There are some really great people here,you have some great abilities,Gs allows you the chance to get in the nitty gritty,So peace all.
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socks
My tone is probably the same, but I write differently than I talk. I might write more like I think. Kinda scarey, that. But I don't think I'd write anything that I wouldn't say face to face in conversation. Writing it here allows for more time to think and in most cases, not write anything.
Every few days seems like, I write a response or a thread topic, spend time on it and then delete it and go on about my evening. I almost always read it back and don't see it adding anything new, other than the wonderful "sound" of my own written voice. Most of what I write never makes it on the board so that's at least one thing to be thankful for. :) But it's a strain for me to fit my current thought lines into the context of the Way and most of the subject matter. I probably don't "belong here' but I do like to visit.
sogwap posted recently about her experiences and I thought it was pretty enlightening. It brought up a whole range of points that don't get discussed often because people with her experience and viewpoint don't often post it, or post here at all I guess. So it spoke directly to a part of Way history that doesn't get discussed by the people most qualified to discuss it - those who lived it. In fact, I think it would shed a lot of light on the goings on of those times if there was more of that information shared and talked about. It might also give a better view of how things progressed in the Way over the years.
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Tom Strange
Nice post frank123lol... some good thoughts there...
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bliss
As far as my tone, or if I post how I talk................................
now where is that dang "hand talking" button????????????????????????
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Suda
Fabulous thread, Oakspear, and great comments from all. You expressed my concerns about the bitterness I sometimes encounter on these threads much better than I was able to express my thoughts and feelings. Thanks.
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ex10
All I can say is, I just someone would slap me, when I get outta line.
Love you guys.
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dmiller
Frank -- then you are a better person than I.
I do poorly at conversation. I love the chance to *compose* thoughts, here on the board.
To each our own, eh? ;)
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Oakspear
Ya'know, it's not at all about writing styles, or "smoothness" of speech, IMHO. One poster that I can think of has the most atrocious grammar, and is extremely hard to follow logically, yet is always respectful of others' feelings and opinions; gives the impression that he wouldn't hurt a fly, while others speak very well, but use their skill with language to cut and hurt.
Another thing that I have noted is we tend to cut some slack to people who we have met face-to-face, or know outside the forums...in "real life". We can put a face to the typed words and at least superficially know the person behind the screen.
One way we can help keep these discussions more reasonable is self-policing. I'm not talking about more for the moderators to do, but "allies" in different arguments keeping each other calm. For example, if I am getting nasty on an agnostic or atheist thread, George Aar or Sudo might be the one to help point out that I am getting out of line, since I know that we have similar opinions. There have been many times when I have thought that people that I have agreed with were stating their case illogically, or needlessly attacking someone they disagreed with and stood idly by, figuring that "the other side" could defend their own without help from me.
Hi, Mr. Hayes
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