Where I lived there was our twig(no corps in it) A twig that was all corps, people with families who were not doing corps assignments, and the twig area corordinator's twig.
The All corps twig was not friendly, they stuck to them selves. Thye left with the loyalty letter Since they had not been much apart of our lives, we barely noticed. Our Twig area guy was a nice guy. He stayed, so it seemed logical for us to stay also. For awhile we got way stuff and Chris Geer stuff, don't remember when we quit getting both. we just kept on doing our small town twig.
We were pretty isolated. Even when the ministry was at its high population, we were in an outlying area.
I wasnt around in during the mid 80's. For those who where not Corp or Corp what did you do to continue to fellowship or where you stranded? How did it effect your lifes? The websites where not up on the internet so how did you stayed tuned to TWI and why was it so important?
A lot of us didn't continue fellowship nor did many of us feel stranded. We rebuilt lives. A lot did not stay tuned to TWI for years. It was only recently (in the last year) that I ended up re-connected with GSC. This is a fun place but not a place where I take doctrincal discussions seriously any more. TWi is/was only important in that I met many fine and wonderful people, all deceived by the same BS and as I get to be about a thousand years old I want to maintain some contact with those good folks.
I still had some contact with way people til 89' or so. I don't think I heard one thing about the way in the 90's as I rebuilt, really built for the first time, my life.
I come here for the people and to share experiences. I could care less about doctrinal issues.
The years completely apart from any way influence were the most productive -and critical-times of my life until now. I am so thankful I did not have to deal with devastating crises like death and personal surgeries, with the way looking over my shoulder. It would only have made things worse.I will always be thankful for the strength and growth I gained from overcoming adversities on my own.
I've been able to actually carve out a career doing something I love . I HAD to get away from the way to make that happen.
Likeaneagel, I assume you are asking about the time after VPW died and the POP was read.
I think the 80s were different for each area. What you heard about what was happening depended on where you were and who was there. For me, it was business as usual since my local leadership still supported HQ.
Our territory coordinator (higher up than a BC, but lower than an LC) had meetings with his BCs. I used to spend my whole weekend serving at those meetings. I remember hearing some knock-down-drag-out arguments because not everyone thought the same about what was happening. It became more apparent after people starting leaving and doing their own thing. They tried to act as if they were still doing exactly the same thing except without Martinfail.
I remember when John Lynn and Ralph Dubofsky left and started sending letters to a lot of people. We were told that we should not read the letter or we were opening ourselves up to lying spirits. Man, I wish I had been a rebellious wayfer. That's all hindsite now.
I was completely confused back then. I had been a TC at that time, but we still didn't get many bones tossed our way. Our BC and his wife were pretty tight-lipped. The only change was when I decided not to go in residence. I told the Territory coordinator and didn't get reamed for it. He said I was making a good decision because the Corps was no longer VPW's Corps. I decided not to go just because I didn't want to. I only decided to go in because of pressure from the BCs. In my area, the leadership were leaning toward support for CG.
I also dated a 17th corps guy who was tight-lipped. Maybe he really didn't know much because he was in his interim year. The BC didn't like him, so maybe he didn't know much. But surely he was talking to his Corps buddies who were spread all over the place.
It was a weird, confusing time. I wish I had been around people who shared freely.
ROA 1986 was extremely weird. People were walking around like zombies. It wasn't until I got back home from that ROA that I heard more about what happened. I had no idea of the things the Trustees were being called on the carpet for. I didn't until I actually read POP after leaving TWI. At the time I got to read it, I could put things in to perspective because I had no allegiance to any of the groups involved.
The year and change between vp's death and pop was uneventful. The whole joint was a mess but most people were gamely hanging on, if only to prove that the way wasn't built on a man. Pop blew it all up, but that wasn't until just before roa'86. That was a weird time. It had all just been dumped on the corps, and noone knew what to tell the masses as they arrived in Ohio.
The next phase was the so called 'fog years', which lasted until craig wrote his famous commitment letter, which pretty much cleared out anyone who was still hoping it could change.
I wasnt around in during the mid 80's. For those who where not Corp or Corp what did you do to continue to fellowship or where you stranded? How did it effect your lifes? The websites where not up on the internet so how did you stayed tuned to TWI and why was it so important?
Lets see, 81 - 83 we ran a twig in Virginia. We were introduced to the Lally's once as the 'out-laying areas Twig', at the airport. Otherwise we would not have recognized each other on the sidewalk. We only ran a twig, we never actually met the Limb Coords, in person, nor saw them at any events.
83-84 we briefly shared a house with WC in Fresno California, but they did not really get along with other WC very well, but the Twig was great!
84-86 we ran a twig in Upper Lake California. Never saw a single WC the entire time.
86-87 back to Merced California, doing a Twig there. Ran some classes. did lots of things with other twigs, we were outside of their 'normal' branch outlines. For one 'do' we were in the Fresno branch, but for the next 'do' we were in the Modesto branch. Lots of times we did things with another twig in Snelling, or one in Mariposa. 'They' kept re-drawing lines, and changing stuff. Wanting us to run classes, but then saying that we could not run a class if we had no WC in the county. back and forth. bahh. Finally in Stockton, the Limb Coord told us to make copies of PFAL, so we would not have to fight for each each time we run a class.
Then in 87 we moved to Scotland. Gartmore was nice to visit, but they did not want us Americans inside of their branch - twig structuring. So we were told to run independently. I tried to contact Ohio, what a zoo! I was told that I was the Country Coord 'for Americans living in Scotland' and to go through Military Outreach for classes and support. So we tried to contact Paul Norcross. Now I have never met Mr. Norcross, but my experiences in the military were very limited [1976 - 2001]. But I did manage to get him on the phone, and was told to try again with Gartmore. At the time, I did not want to be using our personal copy of PFAL, as I felt that PFAL should have been handled via the Way Tree. Chris Kent came to our twig and visited twice. The second time he came to visit he brought PFAL with him, but he began to back out from our agreement that he would hand over PFAL to me to run for our twig. Some of the believers in our twig laid hands on Chris Kent and physically convinced him to go along with his previous agreement to allow us to use his copy of PFAL to run a class in our Twig.
I guess that while in Scotland we were kind of 'stranded'. But it did not really occur to us that it was any different than it had been previously.
When we returned stateside in 1991, and took over a twig in Connecticut. It was obvious that something had happened to The Way Ministry. But it took a while to learn what had occurred.
I guess that we were just too busy running a fellowship, to notice.
Vry interesting. So communication was weak unless you were with a large group who chose to exit at the same time and if they were strong enough for each other.
Galen, Im sure you got the run around. Like an island to yourself..I bet it made for some sweet times for those who helped each other with struggles tho.
WHy did people keep classes? where they afraid they would have nothing to present to friends and family interested in classes.
WHy did people keep classes? where they afraid they would have nothing to present to friends and family interested in classes.
Many who left during that time were still VPW and PFAL worshippers. They were afraid they wouldn't have a class. Those who knew they were on their way out the door brainstormed for ideas in keeping PFAL alive after they left. I was even approached to type up a manuscript of PFAL in case we wouldn't have it one day. Our territory coordinator told us that we should be able to teach it because we may not always have it. We didn't understand the fullness of what he was saying at that time, but it became more clear the next year and even later on.
The guys who were fulltime clergy who didn't stay with twi had twits coming to their house to take twi belongings. If something was missing, they were hounded until they coughed it up. I saw it happen to our LC.
Vry interesting. So communication was weak unless you were with a large group who chose to exit at the same time and if they were strong enough for each other.
Galen, Im sure you got the run around. Like an island to yourself..I bet it made for some sweet times for those who helped each other with struggles tho.
Oh yes.
We usually got along very well with everyone in each of our fellowships. Lots of love and helping each other, standing by one another and 'barn raising' [watching each others children, fixing each others cars, etc].
... WHy did people keep classes? where they afraid they would have nothing to present to friends and family interested in classes.
When I was told to make a copy. It was within the context of dealing with 'ring-knockers'.
WC-grads who insisted that only WC-grads should be allowed to handle PFAL, would commonly wave their precious holy spirit dove rings in our face, as they went on about how spiritual they were. Or that only twigs who had WC-grads should be running PFAL. Or that if three twigs were all running PFAL at the same time and had to share the tapes, the WC-grads among them would skip the sequence and only share the tapes with their fellow ring-knockers. So any fellowship without WC-grad ring-knockers would intermittently get the sessions, while WC ran classes would get every session according to their schedule.
Ring-knockers helping each other at the expense of Average Joe Believer twigs.
:)
I dont know why others would have been told by their Limb Coords to make and keep copies. that was why I was told to.
'82-'83 - I was a WOW in New Orleans, it was an Outreach City and very busy. I witnessed to, and then married, a guy who lived there. We didn't know anything was wrong at HQ, although there was plenty of signs of it in N.O. Tough year, but of course, we thought it was only because it was our WOW year and had nothing to do with things at the root.
My husband and I actually married in June of my WOW year and we told no one except my WOW sister. We had planned to marry in September, but he was from another country and was having immigration problems. The lawyer told us to get married or say goodbye...so we got married at a justice of the peace. Only we couldn't live together until AFTER my WOW year was over! LOL, how many people do you know who didn't live together until TWO MONTHS after they got married?? And the ROA really WAS my honeymoon! In a tent, no less...LOL!
1984 - I had a baby and then my whole family decided to meet back in Georgia to live close to one another. I'd originally taken the class there, so I hooked back up with old believers in Macon.
1985 - Went to twig some, but it was difficult since my husband decided he didn't want to go anymore and I had a baby...then got preggers with another.
1986 - Second baby came along. Ran into an old friend who'd undershepparded me thru my first PFAL & hung out with them some, went to twig with them occasionally.
1987 - Started nursing school with a 1 year old and a 2 year old. Had very little time to go to twig. Very little. This was God protecting my heart. I remember my friends, the twig leaders, told me things had changed in TWI, and many people had left. I couldn't believe it and I was sad, but damn! I was busy!!
1990 - Graduated nursing school. Began thinking about going to Twig but there was none in Macon, Georgia. Contacted HQ and got some books and tapes. Listened to old tapes a lot. Read old books. Homeschooled my kids and worked two jobs as a nurse.
1994 - Marriage was in trouble. Finally got my husband to go to church for counseling, and then to church service at an Assemblies of God church. It was nice, but I didn't feel the same as I had in the early TWI days...and I longed for that. Called HQ and got an address of a Twig in Atlanta. Drove 110 miles each way to twig, with the kids in the back seat. Good thing I was homeschooling! Husband started getting suspicious of who I was going to see...finally started going to twig with me. But...things were different...wooden...not as loving and tender. I was told to throw away all my old TWI stuff. I didn't.
1995 - After very ineffective counseling by 'TWIT Ministers' I finally threw my husband out after he threatened to kill me. The TWIT minister called and told me to change my mind. I said no. The Limb UnCoordinator called me and told me I was wrong, and that I should have told him we were having problems. I said, "Your TWIT Minister assured me that he kept you informed. Why would I have thought any different?" He told me to change my mind. I told him, "I'm an educated person. I will NOT stay in an abusive relationship." When he kept blabbing about how screwed up I was, I respectfully told him I no longer wished to discuss it with him....then I hung up.
The TWIT minister called me back, told me that when I 1) apologized to my husband, 2) allowed him back into our home, and 3) apologized to 'the Man of God for the State' THENI could go back to TWI.
I said, "I don't think I'll be doing that," and I hung up.
I firmly believe that God protected my heart during the 80's by keeping me busy elsewhere. I often wondered how I allowed myself to fade away during that time when I'd been gung ho "I'll stand no matter what." Now I know why it happened. I remember being sad about VPW's passing...but I had two little babies to tend to. When there was more distance from the fog years, I re-entered TWI, but by then I had enough self respect and fortitude to handle the change...and get out when I saw it was bad.
I still mourned the loss of TWI more than the loss of my marriage. Go figure. I guess it was because they were the people who were supposed to love me with unconditional love and be my support system...then, when I needed them the most, they threw me out. Ha. Turns out I didn't need them that much.
Edited to correct grammar and punctuation, once again!
Recommended Posts
Bramble
Where I lived there was our twig(no corps in it) A twig that was all corps, people with families who were not doing corps assignments, and the twig area corordinator's twig.
The All corps twig was not friendly, they stuck to them selves. Thye left with the loyalty letter Since they had not been much apart of our lives, we barely noticed. Our Twig area guy was a nice guy. He stayed, so it seemed logical for us to stay also. For awhile we got way stuff and Chris Geer stuff, don't remember when we quit getting both. we just kept on doing our small town twig.
We were pretty isolated. Even when the ministry was at its high population, we were in an outlying area.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RumRunner
A lot of us didn't continue fellowship nor did many of us feel stranded. We rebuilt lives. A lot did not stay tuned to TWI for years. It was only recently (in the last year) that I ended up re-connected with GSC. This is a fun place but not a place where I take doctrincal discussions seriously any more. TWi is/was only important in that I met many fine and wonderful people, all deceived by the same BS and as I get to be about a thousand years old I want to maintain some contact with those good folks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
My experience is similar to Rum Runners.
I still had some contact with way people til 89' or so. I don't think I heard one thing about the way in the 90's as I rebuilt, really built for the first time, my life.
I come here for the people and to share experiences. I could care less about doctrinal issues.
The years completely apart from any way influence were the most productive -and critical-times of my life until now. I am so thankful I did not have to deal with devastating crises like death and personal surgeries, with the way looking over my shoulder. It would only have made things worse.I will always be thankful for the strength and growth I gained from overcoming adversities on my own.
I've been able to actually carve out a career doing something I love . I HAD to get away from the way to make that happen.
It really was like getting set free from a cage.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
Likeaneagel, I assume you are asking about the time after VPW died and the POP was read.
I think the 80s were different for each area. What you heard about what was happening depended on where you were and who was there. For me, it was business as usual since my local leadership still supported HQ.
Our territory coordinator (higher up than a BC, but lower than an LC) had meetings with his BCs. I used to spend my whole weekend serving at those meetings. I remember hearing some knock-down-drag-out arguments because not everyone thought the same about what was happening. It became more apparent after people starting leaving and doing their own thing. They tried to act as if they were still doing exactly the same thing except without Martinfail.
I remember when John Lynn and Ralph Dubofsky left and started sending letters to a lot of people. We were told that we should not read the letter or we were opening ourselves up to lying spirits. Man, I wish I had been a rebellious wayfer. That's all hindsite now.
I was completely confused back then. I had been a TC at that time, but we still didn't get many bones tossed our way. Our BC and his wife were pretty tight-lipped. The only change was when I decided not to go in residence. I told the Territory coordinator and didn't get reamed for it. He said I was making a good decision because the Corps was no longer VPW's Corps. I decided not to go just because I didn't want to. I only decided to go in because of pressure from the BCs. In my area, the leadership were leaning toward support for CG.
I also dated a 17th corps guy who was tight-lipped. Maybe he really didn't know much because he was in his interim year. The BC didn't like him, so maybe he didn't know much. But surely he was talking to his Corps buddies who were spread all over the place.
It was a weird, confusing time. I wish I had been around people who shared freely.
ROA 1986 was extremely weird. People were walking around like zombies. It wasn't until I got back home from that ROA that I heard more about what happened. I had no idea of the things the Trustees were being called on the carpet for. I didn't until I actually read POP after leaving TWI. At the time I got to read it, I could put things in to perspective because I had no allegiance to any of the groups involved.
Edited by Wayfer NotLink to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
I assumed eagle was talking about after pop.
The year and change between vp's death and pop was uneventful. The whole joint was a mess but most people were gamely hanging on, if only to prove that the way wasn't built on a man. Pop blew it all up, but that wasn't until just before roa'86. That was a weird time. It had all just been dumped on the corps, and noone knew what to tell the masses as they arrived in Ohio.
The next phase was the so called 'fog years', which lasted until craig wrote his famous commitment letter, which pretty much cleared out anyone who was still hoping it could change.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
Lets see, 81 - 83 we ran a twig in Virginia. We were introduced to the Lally's once as the 'out-laying areas Twig', at the airport. Otherwise we would not have recognized each other on the sidewalk. We only ran a twig, we never actually met the Limb Coords, in person, nor saw them at any events.
83-84 we briefly shared a house with WC in Fresno California, but they did not really get along with other WC very well, but the Twig was great!
84-86 we ran a twig in Upper Lake California. Never saw a single WC the entire time.
86-87 back to Merced California, doing a Twig there. Ran some classes. did lots of things with other twigs, we were outside of their 'normal' branch outlines. For one 'do' we were in the Fresno branch, but for the next 'do' we were in the Modesto branch. Lots of times we did things with another twig in Snelling, or one in Mariposa. 'They' kept re-drawing lines, and changing stuff. Wanting us to run classes, but then saying that we could not run a class if we had no WC in the county. back and forth. bahh. Finally in Stockton, the Limb Coord told us to make copies of PFAL, so we would not have to fight for each each time we run a class.
Then in 87 we moved to Scotland. Gartmore was nice to visit, but they did not want us Americans inside of their branch - twig structuring. So we were told to run independently. I tried to contact Ohio, what a zoo! I was told that I was the Country Coord 'for Americans living in Scotland' and to go through Military Outreach for classes and support. So we tried to contact Paul Norcross. Now I have never met Mr. Norcross, but my experiences in the military were very limited [1976 - 2001]. But I did manage to get him on the phone, and was told to try again with Gartmore. At the time, I did not want to be using our personal copy of PFAL, as I felt that PFAL should have been handled via the Way Tree. Chris Kent came to our twig and visited twice. The second time he came to visit he brought PFAL with him, but he began to back out from our agreement that he would hand over PFAL to me to run for our twig. Some of the believers in our twig laid hands on Chris Kent and physically convinced him to go along with his previous agreement to allow us to use his copy of PFAL to run a class in our Twig.
I guess that while in Scotland we were kind of 'stranded'. But it did not really occur to us that it was any different than it had been previously.
When we returned stateside in 1991, and took over a twig in Connecticut. It was obvious that something had happened to The Way Ministry. But it took a while to learn what had occurred.
I guess that we were just too busy running a fellowship, to notice.
:)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
likeaneagle
Thanks for responses..
Vry interesting. So communication was weak unless you were with a large group who chose to exit at the same time and if they were strong enough for each other.
Galen, Im sure you got the run around. Like an island to yourself..I bet it made for some sweet times for those who helped each other with struggles tho.
WHy did people keep classes? where they afraid they would have nothing to present to friends and family interested in classes.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
Many who left during that time were still VPW and PFAL worshippers. They were afraid they wouldn't have a class. Those who knew they were on their way out the door brainstormed for ideas in keeping PFAL alive after they left. I was even approached to type up a manuscript of PFAL in case we wouldn't have it one day. Our territory coordinator told us that we should be able to teach it because we may not always have it. We didn't understand the fullness of what he was saying at that time, but it became more clear the next year and even later on.
The guys who were fulltime clergy who didn't stay with twi had twits coming to their house to take twi belongings. If something was missing, they were hounded until they coughed it up. I saw it happen to our LC.
Edited by Wayfer NotLink to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
Oh yes.
We usually got along very well with everyone in each of our fellowships. Lots of love and helping each other, standing by one another and 'barn raising' [watching each others children, fixing each others cars, etc].
When I was told to make a copy. It was within the context of dealing with 'ring-knockers'.
WC-grads who insisted that only WC-grads should be allowed to handle PFAL, would commonly wave their precious holy spirit dove rings in our face, as they went on about how spiritual they were. Or that only twigs who had WC-grads should be running PFAL. Or that if three twigs were all running PFAL at the same time and had to share the tapes, the WC-grads among them would skip the sequence and only share the tapes with their fellow ring-knockers. So any fellowship without WC-grad ring-knockers would intermittently get the sessions, while WC ran classes would get every session according to their schedule.
Ring-knockers helping each other at the expense of Average Joe Believer twigs.
:)
I dont know why others would have been told by their Limb Coords to make and keep copies. that was why I was told to.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Robes
'82-'83 - I was a WOW in New Orleans, it was an Outreach City and very busy. I witnessed to, and then married, a guy who lived there. We didn't know anything was wrong at HQ, although there was plenty of signs of it in N.O. Tough year, but of course, we thought it was only because it was our WOW year and had nothing to do with things at the root.
My husband and I actually married in June of my WOW year and we told no one except my WOW sister. We had planned to marry in September, but he was from another country and was having immigration problems. The lawyer told us to get married or say goodbye...so we got married at a justice of the peace. Only we couldn't live together until AFTER my WOW year was over! LOL, how many people do you know who didn't live together until TWO MONTHS after they got married?? And the ROA really WAS my honeymoon! In a tent, no less...LOL!
1984 - I had a baby and then my whole family decided to meet back in Georgia to live close to one another. I'd originally taken the class there, so I hooked back up with old believers in Macon.
1985 - Went to twig some, but it was difficult since my husband decided he didn't want to go anymore and I had a baby...then got preggers with another.
1986 - Second baby came along. Ran into an old friend who'd undershepparded me thru my first PFAL & hung out with them some, went to twig with them occasionally.
1987 - Started nursing school with a 1 year old and a 2 year old. Had very little time to go to twig. Very little. This was God protecting my heart. I remember my friends, the twig leaders, told me things had changed in TWI, and many people had left. I couldn't believe it and I was sad, but damn! I was busy!!
1990 - Graduated nursing school. Began thinking about going to Twig but there was none in Macon, Georgia. Contacted HQ and got some books and tapes. Listened to old tapes a lot. Read old books. Homeschooled my kids and worked two jobs as a nurse.
1994 - Marriage was in trouble. Finally got my husband to go to church for counseling, and then to church service at an Assemblies of God church. It was nice, but I didn't feel the same as I had in the early TWI days...and I longed for that. Called HQ and got an address of a Twig in Atlanta. Drove 110 miles each way to twig, with the kids in the back seat. Good thing I was homeschooling! Husband started getting suspicious of who I was going to see...finally started going to twig with me. But...things were different...wooden...not as loving and tender. I was told to throw away all my old TWI stuff. I didn't.
1995 - After very ineffective counseling by 'TWIT Ministers' I finally threw my husband out after he threatened to kill me. The TWIT minister called and told me to change my mind. I said no. The Limb UnCoordinator called me and told me I was wrong, and that I should have told him we were having problems. I said, "Your TWIT Minister assured me that he kept you informed. Why would I have thought any different?" He told me to change my mind. I told him, "I'm an educated person. I will NOT stay in an abusive relationship." When he kept blabbing about how screwed up I was, I respectfully told him I no longer wished to discuss it with him....then I hung up.
The TWIT minister called me back, told me that when I 1) apologized to my husband, 2) allowed him back into our home, and 3) apologized to 'the Man of God for the State' THEN I could go back to TWI.
I said, "I don't think I'll be doing that," and I hung up.
I firmly believe that God protected my heart during the 80's by keeping me busy elsewhere. I often wondered how I allowed myself to fade away during that time when I'd been gung ho "I'll stand no matter what." Now I know why it happened. I remember being sad about VPW's passing...but I had two little babies to tend to. When there was more distance from the fog years, I re-entered TWI, but by then I had enough self respect and fortitude to handle the change...and get out when I saw it was bad.
I still mourned the loss of TWI more than the loss of my marriage. Go figure. I guess it was because they were the people who were supposed to love me with unconditional love and be my support system...then, when I needed them the most, they threw me out. Ha. Turns out I didn't need them that much.
Edited to correct grammar and punctuation, once again!
Edited by RobesLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.