Myth of the Six Million

[oldiesman]

thoughts OM?

All of this is very interesting and thought provoking, those are my thoughts.

I made the comment that I thought what Dr. Wierwille said ("maybe we fought on the wrong side of WWII") was in the context of Wierwille's view of Hitler fighting "communism"...

I didn't mean to say or infer anything about Hitler or Hitler's goals himself, but "Wierwille's view"...

Maybe it will not help, but I will try to explain my position a little more clearly.

Way back in those "good old days" of twi, when us old timers were around, you will recall there was a book in the bookstore called "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" (NDCC)

This book was central, I believe, to Wierwille's beliefs about communism and world government, and what really threatened the U.S.. To him, communism was more than just an "economic theory". It was, as described in NDCC "an international, conspiratorial drive for power on the part of men in high places willing to use any means to bring about their desired aim -- global conquest."

These were, as explained in that book, International Bankers and Insiders bankrolling the Boleshevik revolution and world communism, so as to use that method to control more and more people and eventually the whole world through their communist globalist empire (a.k.a one-world government).

That information, plus information Wierwille was getting in the 70's from "The Spotlight" and other stuff, led him to believe that we fought on the wrong side of WWII, I believe, because we didn't fight this communist menace, which was being bankrolled and supported by these Insiders. Instead we were eradicating the force that would or might eventually destroy this menace.

Now granted, I don't think Dr. Wierwille was totally correct, because he didn't take into account that the same Insiders who bankrolled the Bolesheviks could have been bankrolling Hitler. After all, one dictatorship is no better than another and who says Hitler can't be bought by these superbillionaires?

But I was just pointing out that I could understand why Wierwille might say and think something like that, seeing communism as the tool for this worldwide conspiracy he did in the '70s...

You may infer what you will from Wierwille's statement, but that is the way I see it and it makes sense to me.

[templelady]

Golly Mo, that is pretty sick and accusatory thinking

Accusatory ,Yes

But Sick-no, what Is SICKENING is VPWs ATTITUDE toward Hitler --no matter how you slant it. Hitler gained power over Germany by appealing to the German people's pride and hurt over being the downtrodden "whipping boy" of the rest of Europe for centuries. He garnered vast amounts of support from a population still hurting from the beating of WWI by the promises of bringing unity and making Germany a country that the rest of Europe would finally show much delayed respect to.

This was not out of any concern for the German people, their pride or their dignity (Hitler himself wasn't German but an Austrian) but merely a stepping stone so that he could assume the position that his megalomaniac mind had convinced him he was entitled too. There was nothing to recommend Hitler to anybody, He was a pompous, tyrannical , psychopathic, syphilis ridden, pedophile, and mass murderer with delusions of grandeur. .to find anything laudable about his position is Sick

[Tom Strange]

Thanks OM... that explanation at least makes a little more sense... and yeah... I think I even have a copy of NDCIC around here somewhere (along with the Marxist Minstrels!)...

So... doesn't that (your response) tell you something? That veepee was pretty influenced not by God but by the right wing extremists and neo-nazis? ...supplying further proof or indications that one should distance oneself from anything of a 'political' or 'historic' nature? ...since it could easily be inferred that whatever thoughts he spoke were influenced by these wackos?

Including (but not limited to) "the myth of the six million"... and "we fought on the wrong side in WWII"...

Edited May 2, 2006 by Tom Strange

[oldiesman]

So,

by the change of subject again, Oldiesman,

are you saying that you admit the evidence is overwhelming and monumental

that Hitler set up a plan to kill millions of people including millions of Jews,

then had that plan executed, killing millions of people including millions of Jews?

There is evidence out there, but there is evidence from the revisionists of their point of view, as well.

Therefore, I keep an open mind on this topic and want to continue to hear both sides.

[oldiesman]

Thanks OM... that explanation at least makes a little more sense... and yeah... I think I even have a copy of NDCIC around here somewhere (along with the Marxist Minstrels!)...

So... doesn't that (your response) tell you something? That veepee was pretty influenced not by God but by the right wing extremists and neo-nazis? ...supplying further proof or indications that one should distance oneself from anything of a 'political' or 'historic' nature? ...since it could easily be inferred that whatever thoughts he spoke were influenced by these wackos?

I have mixed emotions about this. On the one hand, yeah, one should distance oneself from all of this. On the other hand, I respect folks wanting to get out "the truth" or true facts as they see them and it doesn't hurt hearing some of this stuff or being vigilant.

But I do not necessarily equate all revisionist thinkers (for instance, like Carto, Butz, & CO.) with extremists and neo-nazis. I see them as Americans who want to get what they perceive to be the truth, "out there."

Because these revisionists want to get the truth out there, they are labelled as neo-Nazi. The labelling isn't necessary and I think may be dangerous and grossly unfair. I would rather let the facts they are communicating, speak for themselves. If you have evidence that these people are neo-Nazis, feel free to share it.

[Tom Strange]

OK, I looked up "neo-Nazi" on Wikipedia and maybe they don't fit ALL of the criteria... I'll have to look up "neo-Facism" to see if they meet that... but their ideologies sure seem to mesh well even if they don't wear swastikas...

But here is something the the "neo-Nazis" do share with whatever you want to call these "extremists":

From Wikipedia.com, under "Neo-Nazi":

Many Neo-Nazi groups also espouse denial of the Holocaust, claiming that the intentional mass murder of 6,000,000 Jews, many in gas chambers, is a grossly exaggerated lie, that the German Nazi government had no extermination policy, or at least that the extent of the Holocaust is greatly exaggerated, a claim unsupported by reputable historians. Some doubt that Neo-Nazi Holocaust deniers believe these claims, and accuse them of using it as a means to make their ideology more palatable by removing the stigma of association with genocide. Those who don't deny mass killings by the Third Reich (usually those uninitiated into the claims of denial) have engaged in pointing out 'immoral equivalencies' (e.g. the fire bombing of German cities, like the bombing of Dresden, or the ethnic cleansing of Germans in formerly German regions and Eastern Europe) and/or justifications for the executions (e.g. retaliation or punishment for sabotage, terrorism, or subversion). Most Holocaust deniers are not neo-Nazis themselves, though many of their works are quoted and used by neo-Nazi publications.

Does any of this sound kind of familiar?

[Raf]

There is evidence out there, but there is evidence from the revisionists of their point of view, as well.

There is probably evidence that the moon is made of cheese, too. Keep an open mind! White cheese is white. The moon is white. Swiss cheese has holes. The moon has craters...

The revisionists do not provide evidence: they distort it. If you call that "evidence," I submit you're wasting your time "considering" a position that has no basis in reality.

[Tom Strange]

Raf, I just have to tell you this: that picture is so much better for you than the one of Jon Lovitz. That's all.

[markomalley]

There is probably evidence that the moon is made of cheese, too. Keep an open mind! White cheese is white. The moon is white. Swiss cheese has holes. The moon has craters...

The revisionists do not provide evidence: they distort it. If you call that "evidence," I submit you're wasting your time "considering" a position that has no basis in reality.

And pizza has pineapple on it!

[Tom Strange]

ooh! Mark O! ...now a shot has really been fired!

And pizza has pineapple on it!

[Raf]

Don't get me started, people.

The Myth of the Pineapple Pizza

[Tom Strange]

Don't get me started, people.

The Myth of the Pineapple Pizza

yeah... and that'll have a lot more substance than "THE..."

[templelady]

with mushrooms, fresh tomatoes and italian sauage!!!

[markomalley]

So is this the GS version of Godwin's law?

"you know a thread is dead when pineapple on pizza is mentioned"

[GarthP2000]

Raf would like to think so, I imagine.

[PimpjuiceClergy]

I thought judeans from Isarel did not exsist by WWII weren't they sold into slavery by 69A.D by the Roma Pax Pontiff. ??? Also is there a real judean Bloodline can anyone help me on ref tools to find ??? Also please don't tell me about 13th Tribe Book it's not current and deals only with limited ethnic views. I thought those millions killed was also slavic nations by the germans???? I also hear that the German hatred toward's slavic and Croatians Kittem and Preo Nations east of the cauisian mts were more, as oppose to the a people call JEWS is that true??????? and last question ... WHY did the Germans conduct such programs, can the Euopean Union fall again into the same deceitful policy tend???? its just a question guys please dont bite my head ok it's just a question

pimpjuice-love

[Sushi]

*****darn, darn, darn, posted by ABIGAIL******

How dare you ask such ignorant questions! Just kidding.

Most of your questions have already been answered and debated in the thread.

But to sum up and answer a few of your questions - yes there still are people of Judean bloodline, alive and well today. How many of us are still of a "pure" bloodline could certainly be debated. However, prior to the 70's or so, it was still rather unusual, even in the United States, for a Jewish person to marry a non-Jewish person.

Basically, the Jewish people scattered all over. In fact, you will note in the Bible that most of it deals with those of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin and is virtually nothing is said of what happened to the other 10 tribes and where they went. However, DNA testing supports the claim that we are legit.

Yes, the Natzis killed groups outside of Jews. Jews were a large part of their focus, but certainly not the sole focus. As for why, well trying to understand the mind of an insane man is somewhat difficult to do. But the main theory is that he wanted to create a superior and pure race.

Could it happen again? Sure, history repeats all the time. Will it? Well, whether or not it will in Europe, I have no idea, but genocide is still alive and well in a number of countries around the world.

Edited May 2, 2006 by Sushi

[dmiller]

QUOTE=oldiesman @ Apr 21 2006, 09:00 AM) *

There is such a wide variety of differing information on this topic, I really don't know who to believe.

Who are you going to believe??? History and eyewitnesses??? ----

Or a plagiarizing *biblical research* guy, who pretends to know history???

[GarthP2000]

... such a *tough* choice ........ NOT!

[Oakspear]

I thought judeans from Isarel did not exsist by WWII weren't they sold into slavery by 69A.D by the Roma Pax Pontiff. ???

Even a cursory read of church or European history will attest to the continual presence of Jews from biblical times through the middle ages and on to present times.

By the time the Romans destroyed the temple and and the Judean nation in AD 69 or 70 there were already Jews scattered throughout the empire, in some places in large, established communities.

[PimpjuiceClergy]

Thank you

thanxs Sushi

[markomalley]

You might want to read this article on the Diaspora. It might give you some insight.

You might also want to check out this article on the Diaspora. It corroborates and expands on what was contained in the first.

And one more: here.

Finally, the authoritative source: The Jewish Encyclopedia

Hope that helps...

Edited May 3, 2006 by markomalley

[dmiller]

Yes, the Natzis killed groups outside of Jews. Jews were a large part of their focus, but certainly not the sole focus. As for why, well trying to understand the mind of an insane man is somewhat difficult to do. But the main theory is that he wanted to create a superior and pure race.

If I recall, Jehovah's Witnesses were corraled into the camps as well.

They were identified there by having to wear a purple triangle.

A *mere* 2,500 to 5,000 JW's are thought to have been put to death.

In a holocoust docvic claimed to have NOT happened. Rightttt.

I wonder if docvic could sell that to the watchtower folks, as easily as he did it to twi??

Edited May 3, 2006 by dmiller

[PimpjuiceClergy]

Mark0malley my brothea from another mothera thanks for the Ref of the sites and the Jew Encyc... FINALLY SOMEONE AT THIS SITE IS GIVING ME REF MATERIALS TO SEARCH THIS STUFF OUT AND other subjects of interest. This will take time for me to research this complex subject area but I really appreicate you giving me what i need on a very very delicate issue (6million)& subject content. Racsim in any form is wrong so I guess ILL won't be posting for some time until I get some answers from the SITES you supplied - u da man.

Pimpjuice lovin

[Sunesis]

In the beginning of Hitler's conquests, he had special SS troops follow behind the regular infantry and every town they went into, they rounded up the Jews and shot them. It took a large toll on the men who did this, but eventually, they got used to it and started sending home "trophy" pictures. As time went on, there is one infamous incident, where the neighbors decided they wanted to join in and the Nazi's showed them how to shoot, to use just one bullet, if mother was carrying a child, shoot the child, the bullet would go through and kill the mother - on only just one bullet. There is that horrendous picture of the SS man, with rifle about 3 feet away from a mother holding her baby as he shoots at almost point blank range. Much has been written about things like this. Why do men do evil? Simply, because they can. There was no law, no restraint.

There's the famous incident of Himmler (the architect of this), going a long one day with these troops, watching an execution and getting blood and brains on his coat, he nearly passed out he was so thorougly grossed out. This is when he decided, because of low ammo, the toll on the men, etc., that there had to be a better, more "efficient" way to exterminate the Jews.

This led to the infamous Wanasee convention. You must read this - this is the single turning point, the point of "official" government sanction and approval on the holocaust to come.

This was a meeting for only the "top" Gestapo and SS men involved in the exterminations. It was at this meeting that they officially set out the plans for the death camps, Zyklon B, the gas chambers and crematoria. It was ruthless and efficient and could kill millions more without pesky blood and brains ruining the nice uniforms.

Hitler's goal, as he told his doctor, was not just a "pure" aryan race, it was, as Genesis 6 talks about, when angels (superbeings) mated with man and produced a "super race" (the giants). Hitler believed the German, aryan race, were the descendants of these supermen (the cross between angel and human).

Hitler told his Doctor, that his goal was to make the Germans pure enough again, that the beings would mate with them and produce the super race that would conquer the world. Hitler would wake up at night in a cold sweat and converse with the "angel" that would appear in his room - this "angel" scared the heck out of him and his Dr. would give him a sedative to sleep, all the while Hitler mumbling, can't you see him? He's right here!

I believe there was a "spiritual" element in his designs.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Sunesis