Rum Runner ... very powerful video clips. I must confess, that in my 23.5 years spent in TWI, I believe the diatribes about "the Myth of the Six Million." Since my exit in January 1996, I have come to know better. I wish every one of the kids of the Way (and young adults) could see these video clips ... it would build a compassion and understanding AND AWARENESS they, like I, was sorely lacking of this dark, dark period in history.
If you want to know what "The Myth of the Six Million" is all about, you can read the entire book on-line. A lot of facts are presented but one will probably find the reading just as dry as: The Thirteenth Tribe.
If you want to know what "The Myth of the Six Million" is all about, you can read the entire book on-line. A lot of facts are presented but one will probably find the reading just as dry as: The Thirteenth Tribe.
I read both books 20 years ago. Both are full of ^#$*@ - the stats don't hold up and the history doesn't hold up. Only a TWI grad could believe this junk... or a bona fide nazi.
Yeah, remember being told about the myths of the Holocaust, even bought the book to read to dispute it, but never got around to reading it. Could never understand the point behind saying it was a myth. Remember something about none of the "original" Jews still left or something (is that what the 13th tribe was about?)
The Thirteenth Tribe was written by: Arthur Koestler. In The Thirteenth Tribe Mr. Koestler documents how the modern day Jews have little to no genetic ties to the biblical tribes of Israel as is commonly thought. Rather, their roots can be traced to the ancient Khazar Empire (an almost forgotten power in Eastern Europe) an empire that was wiped out by Genghis Khan - but Koestlers work goes on to indicate and provides evidence that the Khazars had migrated to Poland and formed "the cradle" of Western Jewry.
As Mr. Koestler points out, the Khazars ... resisted the Western pressure to become Chrisitian and the Eastern to adopt Islam. Rejecting both, they converted to Judaism. In the second part of the book, (The Heritage) Mr. Koestler speculates about the faith of the Khazars and their impact on the racial composition and social heritage of modern Jewry. According to Koestler, "Should the theory be confirmed, the term 'anti-Semitism' would be void of meaning since it is based on a misapprehension shared by both the killers and their victims." (Excerpt taken from: The Thirteenth Tribe - by: Arthur Koestler).
Both books: The Myth of the Six Million and The Thirteenth Tribe have been discussed on GSC (well, hashed around more or less) but nothing discussed was proven or unproven. Some of what Koestler documents in The Thriteenth Tribe regarding the Khazars he got from Professor Dunlop of Columbia University - a leading authority on the history of the Khazars. One would be pretty hard-pressed to believe Professor Dunlop was (as one poster put it): a TWI grad or bona fide Nazi.
I read both books when I was in TWI, and I reasoned it through like this: if the Jewish Holocaust is less than 6 million, who cares? If it was "only" 3 million, or 6 thousand, or even 6 hundred (which it wasn't, there are enough families out there who lost relatives/friends to make a pretty good count) it doesn't matter. They were still targeted merely because of their religious beliefs. It is still horrendous that Hitler wanted to wipe them out to keep the Aryan race "pure."
It is also tragic that he also gathered up homosexuals, intellectuals, and the disabled for the same reasons.
I spoke personally with a deaf Jewish man who fled Germany for America to avoid becoming one of those statistics. And I took my son to a lecture by a woman, a retired Bates College professor -- who was there at Auschwitz-Birkenau and wrote a book about it, The Seed of Sarah. I wanted to be sure that my son never had cause to doubt that the Holocaust happened.
WhatTheHey, even if Koestler was right, that most American and European Jews are descendants of the Khazars, who cares? If they are Jews because they are proselytes, they are still Jewish by religion. Hitler still went after them because they were of the Jewish religion. We still understand the word "anti-Semitic" to mean Jew-hating, an anti-Semite doesn't stop to ask the person's lineage. Words mean what they mean because of their accepted usage today, or we would still think that "prevent" means "precede," and "by and by" would mean "immediately." Heck, I think we took a class once that examined that....
Sheesh, I figured this stuff out back when I was still in, and I've been out for over 20 years.
I was also raised to believe in the Holocaust. I visited with a few survivors of concentration camps and I've seen the tattoos. I read Ann Frank's diary and several other books. Watched "The Hiding Place" and even heard the Ten Boom sisters speak at the local university. My grandfather and his six brothers all fought in WW II and some of them saw the horrors - horrors like that PBS show - horrors no young man should ever have to live with for the rest of his life - much less the victims themselves.
My grandparents even went back to Germany and visited some of the larger concentration camps. Telling us about the visits and showing us the pictures was the first time I ever heard of the affect the war and finding the poor souls had on my Great Uncle.
BUT - just a short time in TWI had me hard hearted and callously dismissing all that just because they said so and then confirmed just because of those two books. :( I have no idea how I justified it all in my mind.
WTH, I don't care to debate the issue or the books. It's crystal clear that people were abused, tortured, made to live in impossible situations.... It is inhumane what they did. I don't see how anyone can be so inhumane themselves to casually dismiss the evil of the Nazis.....no matter what the number.
If more proof than the above link is necessary, just hold on to your hay. Germany finally has agreed to release all the Nazi records. They were meticulous record keepers. over the next few years many facts will come to the fore...
My uncle who is in his 80's told us that his unit was one that went in to liberate the Auswitch concentration camp. He was very reserved about telling us about the horrible conditions the soldiers found when they went in there. He didn't like to talk about it. Doesn't sound like a myth to me.
There is such a wide variety of differing information on this topic, I really don't know who to believe.
But one thing is certain: we Americans have been shelling out $3-4 billions of loot to the Israeli government year after year, and there seems to be no end in sight.
Dr. Wierwille and others believed we should know about the propaganda machines that encourage these yearly displacements of funds, which really is not a bad idea, if you ask me.
Craig said without our money, Israel would be firing bagels at their enemies.
As I suggested in a previous post, we might do well to dedicate some U.S. land, and transport the state of Israel here to the U.S.... wishful thinking for sure, but heck, we'd save numerous lives and tons of money!
Anyway, the Myth of the Six Million wasn't the only book out there to talk about this, there are many more updated volumes.
There is such a wide variety of differing information on this topic, I really don't know who to believe.
But one thing is certain: we Americans have been shelling out $3-4 billions of loot to the Israeli government year after year, and there seems to be no end in sight.
And exactly what has that "fact" got to do with denying that GENOCIDE occurred?
Dr. Wierwille and others believed we should know about the propaganda machines that encourage these yearly displacements of funds, which really is not a bad idea, if you ask me.
No, it's not... but it's not good to replace a 'propaganda machine' with a 'conscpiracy theory' machine.
And again... what has that go to do with denying that GENOCIDE occurred?
Craig said without our money, Israel would be firing bagels at their enemies.
And that shows just the tip of the iceberg of his stupidity and callousness...
As I suggested in a previous post, we might do well to dedicate some U.S. land, and transport the state of Israel here to the U.S.... wishful thinking for sure, but heck, we'd save numerous lives and tons of money!
That I've wondered myself... but it still doesn't have anything to do with the GENOCIDE that occurred.
Anyway, the Myth of the Six Million wasn't the only book out there to talk about this, there are many more updated volumes.
If you believe they have an agenda, then I can believe the propaganda about the holocaust is agenda driven as well.
Be that as it may, you have a point about what all this has to do with the holocaust itself, and I do think there's enough differing information out there to warrant further study and examination on both sides.
If you believe they have an agenda, then I can believe the propaganda about the holocaust is agenda driven as well.
Be that as it may, you have a point about what all this has to do with the holocaust itself, and I do think there's enough differing information out there to warrant further study and examination on both sides.
They all have an agenda... it's just that the holocaust folks have bodies, bones, gas chambers, death camps and actual survivors to back theirs up (among other things)... the folks on the other side (your side?) only have "it didn't happen" as well as "the attack on 9/11 was done by the U.S. government"...
If you believe they have an agenda, then I can believe the propaganda about the holocaust is agenda driven as well.
On that point you would be 100% correct, OM. Here are just a few excerpts from "The Myth of the Six Million".
History has many examples of myths that live a longer and richer life than truth, and may become more effective than truth.
The Western World has for some years been made aware of a Jewish girl through the medium of what purports to be her personally written story, "Anne Frank's Diary." Any informed literary inspection of this book would have shown it to have been impossible as the work of a teenager.
A noteworthy decision of the New York Supreme Court confirms this point of view, in that the well known American Jewish writer, Meyer Levin, has been awarded $50,000 to be paid him by the father of Anne Frank as an honorarium for Levin's work on the "Anne Frank Diary."
Mr. Frank, in Switzerland, has promised to pay to his race-kin, Meyer Levin, not less than $50,000 because he had used the dialogue of Author Levin just as it was and "implanted" it in the diary as being his daughter's intellectual work. ...
The Diary Of Anne Frank was first published in 1952 and immediately became a bestseller. It has been republished in paperback, 40 printings. It is impossible to estimate how many people have been touched and aroused by the movie production.
Why has the trial involving the father of Anne Frank, bearing directly on the authenticity of this book, never been "officially reported"? In royalties alone, Otto Frank has profited richly from the sale of this book, purporting to depict the tragic life of his daughter. But is it fact, or is it fiction? Is it truth or is it propaganda? Or is it a combination of all of these? And to what degree does it wrongfully appeal to the emotions through a misrepresentation as to its origin?
--------------
Paul Rassinier, Le Mensonge d'Ulysso (The Lies of Odysseus, Paris, 1955, pp. 209ff.) demonstrated conclusively that there were no gas chambers at Buchenwald. Rassinier is a French professor who spent most of the war as an inmate at Buchenwald. He made short work of the extravagant claims about Buchenwald gas chambers in David Rousset, The Other Kingdom (N.Y., 1947; French ed., L'Univers Concentrationnaire, Paris, 1946). He also investigated Denise Dufournier, Ravensbrueck: the Women's Camp of Death (London, 1948), and he found that the heroine had no other evidence for gas chambers than the vague rumors described by Margarete Buber. Similar investigations were made of such books as Filip Friedman, This Was Oswiecim (Auschwitz): the Story of a Murder Camp (N.Y., 1946), and Eugen Kogon, The Theory and Practice of Hell (N.Y., 1950). Rassinier did mention Kogon's claim that a deceased former inmate, Janda Weiss, had said to Kogon alone that she had been a witness of the gas chambers in operation at Auschwitz. Rassinier noted that there were of course rumors about gas chambers at Dachau too, but fortunately they were merely rumors. Indeed, one could trace them as far back as the sensational book by the German Communist, Hans Beimler, Four Weeks in the Hands of Hitler's Hell-Hounds: the Nazi Murder Camp of Dachau (N.Y., 1933).
Rassinier has toured Europe for years, like Diogenes seeking an honest man, more specifically somebody who was an actual eyewitness, of any person, Jew or Gentile, who had ever been deliberately exterminated in a gas oven by Germans during the course of World War II, but he has never found even one such person. He found that not one of the authors of the many books charging that the Germans had exterminated millions of Jews during the war had ever seen a gas oven built for such purposes, much less seen one in operation, nor had one of these authors ever been able to produce a live, authentic eyewitness who had done so.
And in summary (letting the book speak for itself:)
Admittedly the execution for no crime of any one human being, or a thousand, or a million, or six million is a horrible crime. But wanton exaggeration of atrocities for political and blackmailing purposes is a wrong, too, and honesty and accuracy are virtues. Facts available now are enough to prove that the figure of six million is a preposterous exaggeration of at least three million. Furthermore, all indications point to the likelihood that when the Soviets open up Eastern Europe for the same sort of investigation possible in West Europe, the legend of the six million will shrink some 90 per cent, and of the remaining casualties some will be proven to have died in the Warsaw uprising in combat, some to have been executed justifiably as partisans, and some to have been killed by non-Germans for collaboration with bolsheviks and, alas, also some to have been executed in the heat of war unjustifiably by the Nazis. For these Germany has been penitently straining every fibre to make restitution.
Facts available now are enough to prove that the figure of six million is a preposterous exaggeration of at least three million. Furthermore, all indications point to the likelihood that when the Soviets open up Eastern Europe for the same sort of investigation possible in West Europe, the legend of the six million will shrink some 90 per cent,
It doesn't really matter to me whether it's six million, three million or six hundred thousand... it was GENOCIDE and it was wrong... to deny it is wrong...
It seems strange to me that there are people responding to this thread who actually endorse" the myth of the 6 million"...as valid information...
They seem to cling to the Wierwillian mindset of wanting to have "superior" information in their quest for the "truth"...that's why so many cult members believe in these fringe conspiracy theories...their minds are suceptible to this particular form of propaganda...they're minds are fertile dirt for the all the fringe whackos to plant their seeds of bull sh it into...
...you can take the glassy eyed ones out of the cult, but you can't take the cult out of the glassy eyed ones.
Rassinier has toured Europe for years, like Diogenes seeking an honest man, more specifically somebody who was an actual eyewitness, of any person, Jew or Gentile, who had ever been deliberately exterminated in a gas oven by Germans during the course of World War II, but he has never found even one such person. He found that not one of the authors of the many books charging that the Germans had exterminated millions of Jews during the war had ever seen a gas oven built for such purposes, much less seen one in operation, nor had one of these authors ever been able to produce a live, authentic eyewitness who had done so.
Very interesting stuff, What the Hey.
*************
This is a true stowray:
Years ago, I lent the book to a Jewish friend of mine to read, his name was Irving Halpern, who didn't agree with it except for one chapter in the appendix that he was thoroughly excited about, and agreed with profusely. It is quoted below.
It all seemed so hysterical ... that I read this book while in TWI, yet find out years later that this stuff can be real after talking with a friend who's name is referenced. Talk about interesting stuff!
The Myth of the Six Million -- Appendix 1
The Jews That Aren't
BY LEO HEIMAN: Copley News Service
TEL AVIV
Nathan M. Pollock has a beef with the Israeli government.
His elaborate plans to celebrate this September the 1,000th anniversary of the Jewish-Khazar alliance were summarily rejected.
An elderly, meek-looking man who migrated to Israel from Russia 43 years ago, Pollock ekes out a living as a translator of scientific texts and proofreader in a publishing firm.
But his great passion, hobby and avocation is historic research.
He has devoted 40 of his 64 years to trying to prove that six out of 10 Israelis and nine out of 10 Jews in the Western Hemisphere are not real Jews' Jews, but descendents of fierce Khazar tribes which roamed the steppes of southern Russia many centuries ago.
For obvious reasons the Israeli authorities are not at all eager to give the official stamp of approval to Pollock's theories.
"For all we know, he may be 100 per cent right," said a senior government official. "In fact, he is not the first one to discover the connection between Jews and Khazars. Many famous scholars, Jews and non-Jews, stressed these links in their historical research works.
"But who can tell today what percentage of Khazar blood flows in our veins, if at all? And who can declare with any degree of scientific accuracy which Jews are Jews and which are descendants of this Tartar-Mongol race?
"As a matter of fact, our alleged descent from the Khazars is the central theme of Arab propaganda," he added. "The Arabs claim most European Jews have no right to be in Israel in the first place because they are not descended from Biblical Hebrews, but from Tartar-Mongol nomad tribes, including the Khazars who were converted to Judaism en masse 1,000 years ago,"
OPINION DIVIDED
Scientific opinion in Israel is divided on the subject. No one argues the basic premise: that a group of 12,000 Jews, fleeing from persecution and wars in the Holy Land, in the wake of Byzantine and Moslem conquests, made the long overland trek to Persia, crossed the territory of today's Turkestan in Central Asia and found asylum in the Khazar Kingdom, which occupied a vast area between the Caspian Sea, Volga River, Ural Mountains, Black Sea and the Polish borderlands.
In the year 965 the Khazars were defeated for the first time in 500 years, by Prince Sviatoslav of Kiev. King Bulan III of Khazaria concluded that Prince Sviatoslav emerged victorious from the war because his troops and mercenaries were Christians, while h i s nomads were pagan worshippers. The king and his nobles embraced Judaism in 965, and in 966 a royal edict was passed enforcing Judaism as the only legal religion in the Khazar Kingdom. Tribesmen had to undergo circumcision, learn Hebrew prayers and recognize Jewish rabbis as their spiritual leaders on pain of death.
As other Jews who were persecuted in the Middle East, medieval Europe and Spain at that time, heard of the new Jewish-Khazar kingdom, rumors spread that the Messiah had arrived at long last. There were several consecutive migration waves to Khazaria, via Persia, Greece and Poland.
Pollock believes the traditional Russian anti-Semitism probably stems from that epoch when Hebrew-speaking Khazar raiders attacked Russian villages, killed the men folk, abducted women, forcibly converted them to Judaism and married them in full-fledged religious ceremonies. This also would explain why so many European Jews are blond and blue-eyed, with a slight Mongol slant to their eyes, as well as the total absence of Semitic features among many Israelis of European descent.
MONGOLS DESTROY KINGDOM
The flourishing Jewish-Khazar Kingdom was destroyed in 1239 by the Mongol invasion of Batu Khan.
Following the Mongol invasion and conquest, surviving members of Jewish-Khazar tribes trekked west and settled in Poland, Hungary, Bohemia, Austria, Romania and the Ukraine.
How can one find out if he is a "Khazar Jew" or a "Hebrew Jew?"
According to Pollock, whose parents came from Poland, if your name is Halperin, Alpert, Halpern, Galpern, etc., you are a 100 per cent Khazar. "Alper" means "brave knight" in the Khazar tongue, and the name was granted by the king to the most distinguished warriors. Names like Kaplan, Caplon, Koppel and the like are positive proof of Khazar descent, according to the scholar. "Kaplan" means "fierce hawk" in the Khazar language. Kogan, Kangan, Kaganvich show aristocratic descent from Kagan-Hagan, King Bulan's chief minister.
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Belle
Man o man... :(
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WordWolf
Before anyone tries to claim-again- that vpw didn't teach this,
or that lcm didn't teach this-
I'd like to point out that twi is STILL teaching this.
vpw taught that the US fought on the wrong side in WW II.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...25entry137925
Down the same page.
"I heard that stuff with my own ears. Veepee down playing the holocost, embracing
nazi ideologies, and yes, stating that we were on the wrong side in WW II."
Different thread.
"VPW did though, disseminate information and publications among the Way Corps
that the holocaust was either staged or not as severe as it is claimed to be."
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb.index.ph...49entry176749
When the New Knoxville high school officials had these plans in the works..to visit
Washington DC and see this [Holocaust] museum..lcm and co. went toe-to-toe on this issue.
From what he told us on corps meeting (mid-90s -- ??)..the NK school officials 'revised'
the junior/senior trip.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index/ph...08entry115308
Here's an extra-special post that deserves special attention.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ndpost&p=204549
"This particular time she was upset about how 'the Way kids' (that's what everybody
calls them) has treated a lady who was well into her 80s. They were on some sort of
school field trip."
"This time 'the Way Kids' had derided this little old lady to the point where the lady
CRIED. Yes, cried, real tears, as in weeping. The lady was a Holocaust Survivor.
She was speaking to a group of exceptional high school kids, which included a group
from NK (which is an EXCELLENT school), the group had some TWI kids in it.
They blasted this lady, who was there, who had photos and had experienced it,
they BLASTED her w/ TWI's anti-Holocaust rhetoric, until she cried.
They only let up when my daughter, who had been urging them to let up the whole
time, stood up, pulled rank on them as Class President, had to YELL at them and
ORDER them to
'JUST STOP IT! LEAVE HER ALONE! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT,
STOP IT!!!"
Just doing my part to prevent people from re-writing history...
or current events, for that matter.
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DogLover
Rum Runner ... very powerful video clips. I must confess, that in my 23.5 years spent in TWI, I believe the diatribes about "the Myth of the Six Million." Since my exit in January 1996, I have come to know better. I wish every one of the kids of the Way (and young adults) could see these video clips ... it would build a compassion and understanding AND AWARENESS they, like I, was sorely lacking of this dark, dark period in history.
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What The Hey
If you want to know what "The Myth of the Six Million" is all about, you can read the entire book on-line. A lot of facts are presented but one will probably find the reading just as dry as: The Thirteenth Tribe.
The Myth of The Six Million
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RumRunner
I read both books 20 years ago. Both are full of ^#$*@ - the stats don't hold up and the history doesn't hold up. Only a TWI grad could believe this junk... or a bona fide nazi.
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What The Hey
Then prove it.
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Suda
Moving footage - just horrific.
Yeah, remember being told about the myths of the Holocaust, even bought the book to read to dispute it, but never got around to reading it. Could never understand the point behind saying it was a myth. Remember something about none of the "original" Jews still left or something (is that what the 13th tribe was about?)
Maybe he was ashamed of his German heritage?
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What The Hey
The Thirteenth Tribe was written by: Arthur Koestler. In The Thirteenth Tribe Mr. Koestler documents how the modern day Jews have little to no genetic ties to the biblical tribes of Israel as is commonly thought. Rather, their roots can be traced to the ancient Khazar Empire (an almost forgotten power in Eastern Europe) an empire that was wiped out by Genghis Khan - but Koestlers work goes on to indicate and provides evidence that the Khazars had migrated to Poland and formed "the cradle" of Western Jewry.
As Mr. Koestler points out, the Khazars ... resisted the Western pressure to become Chrisitian and the Eastern to adopt Islam. Rejecting both, they converted to Judaism. In the second part of the book, (The Heritage) Mr. Koestler speculates about the faith of the Khazars and their impact on the racial composition and social heritage of modern Jewry. According to Koestler, "Should the theory be confirmed, the term 'anti-Semitism' would be void of meaning since it is based on a misapprehension shared by both the killers and their victims." (Excerpt taken from: The Thirteenth Tribe - by: Arthur Koestler).
Both books: The Myth of the Six Million and The Thirteenth Tribe have been discussed on GSC (well, hashed around more or less) but nothing discussed was proven or unproven. Some of what Koestler documents in The Thriteenth Tribe regarding the Khazars he got from Professor Dunlop of Columbia University - a leading authority on the history of the Khazars. One would be pretty hard-pressed to believe Professor Dunlop was (as one poster put it): a TWI grad or bona fide Nazi.
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shazdancer
I read both books when I was in TWI, and I reasoned it through like this: if the Jewish Holocaust is less than 6 million, who cares? If it was "only" 3 million, or 6 thousand, or even 6 hundred (which it wasn't, there are enough families out there who lost relatives/friends to make a pretty good count) it doesn't matter. They were still targeted merely because of their religious beliefs. It is still horrendous that Hitler wanted to wipe them out to keep the Aryan race "pure."
It is also tragic that he also gathered up homosexuals, intellectuals, and the disabled for the same reasons.
I spoke personally with a deaf Jewish man who fled Germany for America to avoid becoming one of those statistics. And I took my son to a lecture by a woman, a retired Bates College professor -- who was there at Auschwitz-Birkenau and wrote a book about it, The Seed of Sarah. I wanted to be sure that my son never had cause to doubt that the Holocaust happened.
WhatTheHey, even if Koestler was right, that most American and European Jews are descendants of the Khazars, who cares? If they are Jews because they are proselytes, they are still Jewish by religion. Hitler still went after them because they were of the Jewish religion. We still understand the word "anti-Semitic" to mean Jew-hating, an anti-Semite doesn't stop to ask the person's lineage. Words mean what they mean because of their accepted usage today, or we would still think that "prevent" means "precede," and "by and by" would mean "immediately." Heck, I think we took a class once that examined that....
Sheesh, I figured this stuff out back when I was still in, and I've been out for over 20 years.
Shaz
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Belle
Good post, Shaz. :)
I was also raised to believe in the Holocaust. I visited with a few survivors of concentration camps and I've seen the tattoos. I read Ann Frank's diary and several other books. Watched "The Hiding Place" and even heard the Ten Boom sisters speak at the local university. My grandfather and his six brothers all fought in WW II and some of them saw the horrors - horrors like that PBS show - horrors no young man should ever have to live with for the rest of his life - much less the victims themselves.
My grandparents even went back to Germany and visited some of the larger concentration camps. Telling us about the visits and showing us the pictures was the first time I ever heard of the affect the war and finding the poor souls had on my Great Uncle.
BUT - just a short time in TWI had me hard hearted and callously dismissing all that just because they said so and then confirmed just because of those two books. :( I have no idea how I justified it all in my mind.
WTH, I don't care to debate the issue or the books. It's crystal clear that people were abused, tortured, made to live in impossible situations.... It is inhumane what they did. I don't see how anyone can be so inhumane themselves to casually dismiss the evil of the Nazis.....no matter what the number.
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TheEvan
Good God, WTH!
If more proof than the above link is necessary, just hold on to your hay. Germany finally has agreed to release all the Nazi records. They were meticulous record keepers. over the next few years many facts will come to the fore...
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outofdafog
My uncle who is in his 80's told us that his unit was one that went in to liberate the Auswitch concentration camp. He was very reserved about telling us about the horrible conditions the soldiers found when they went in there. He didn't like to talk about it. Doesn't sound like a myth to me.
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oldiesman
There is such a wide variety of differing information on this topic, I really don't know who to believe.
But one thing is certain: we Americans have been shelling out $3-4 billions of loot to the Israeli government year after year, and there seems to be no end in sight.
Dr. Wierwille and others believed we should know about the propaganda machines that encourage these yearly displacements of funds, which really is not a bad idea, if you ask me.
Craig said without our money, Israel would be firing bagels at their enemies.
As I suggested in a previous post, we might do well to dedicate some U.S. land, and transport the state of Israel here to the U.S.... wishful thinking for sure, but heck, we'd save numerous lives and tons of money!
Anyway, the Myth of the Six Million wasn't the only book out there to talk about this, there are many more updated volumes.
Here's the website that has them: Noontide Press
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excathedra
i had to stop looking at rummie's link. i'll go back later. it's just too devastating
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WordWolf
THAT the Holocaust happened,
and that millions of Jews were imprisoned and killed
because they were killed,
has been well-documented, sufficient for all REASONABLE
PEOPLE to accept.
That having been said, evidence does not move those who do not
WISH to accept it. After all, there are still Flat-Earthers. :)
This is a thread about how twi disregarded the entire body of
evidence, plus all the survivors, to claim otherwise.
This is also a thread about how twi TAUGHT the Holocaust
never happened, AND STILL DOES.
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Tom Strange
Why do I bother?
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oldiesman
If you believe they have an agenda, then I can believe the propaganda about the holocaust is agenda driven as well.
Be that as it may, you have a point about what all this has to do with the holocaust itself, and I do think there's enough differing information out there to warrant further study and examination on both sides.
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Tom Strange
They all have an agenda... it's just that the holocaust folks have bodies, bones, gas chambers, death camps and actual survivors to back theirs up (among other things)... the folks on the other side (your side?) only have "it didn't happen" as well as "the attack on 9/11 was done by the U.S. government"...
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oldiesman
They have a lot more and a lot differing information than "it didn't happen".
You obviously haven't read some of their stuff, so I see why you might think it's nonsense.
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What The Hey
On that point you would be 100% correct, OM. Here are just a few excerpts from "The Myth of the Six Million".
History has many examples of myths that live a longer and richer life than truth, and may become more effective than truth.
The Western World has for some years been made aware of a Jewish girl through the medium of what purports to be her personally written story, "Anne Frank's Diary." Any informed literary inspection of this book would have shown it to have been impossible as the work of a teenager.
A noteworthy decision of the New York Supreme Court confirms this point of view, in that the well known American Jewish writer, Meyer Levin, has been awarded $50,000 to be paid him by the father of Anne Frank as an honorarium for Levin's work on the "Anne Frank Diary."
Mr. Frank, in Switzerland, has promised to pay to his race-kin, Meyer Levin, not less than $50,000 because he had used the dialogue of Author Levin just as it was and "implanted" it in the diary as being his daughter's intellectual work. ...
The Diary Of Anne Frank was first published in 1952 and immediately became a bestseller. It has been republished in paperback, 40 printings. It is impossible to estimate how many people have been touched and aroused by the movie production.
Why has the trial involving the father of Anne Frank, bearing directly on the authenticity of this book, never been "officially reported"? In royalties alone, Otto Frank has profited richly from the sale of this book, purporting to depict the tragic life of his daughter. But is it fact, or is it fiction? Is it truth or is it propaganda? Or is it a combination of all of these? And to what degree does it wrongfully appeal to the emotions through a misrepresentation as to its origin?
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Paul Rassinier, Le Mensonge d'Ulysso (The Lies of Odysseus, Paris, 1955, pp. 209ff.) demonstrated conclusively that there were no gas chambers at Buchenwald. Rassinier is a French professor who spent most of the war as an inmate at Buchenwald. He made short work of the extravagant claims about Buchenwald gas chambers in David Rousset, The Other Kingdom (N.Y., 1947; French ed., L'Univers Concentrationnaire, Paris, 1946). He also investigated Denise Dufournier, Ravensbrueck: the Women's Camp of Death (London, 1948), and he found that the heroine had no other evidence for gas chambers than the vague rumors described by Margarete Buber. Similar investigations were made of such books as Filip Friedman, This Was Oswiecim (Auschwitz): the Story of a Murder Camp (N.Y., 1946), and Eugen Kogon, The Theory and Practice of Hell (N.Y., 1950). Rassinier did mention Kogon's claim that a deceased former inmate, Janda Weiss, had said to Kogon alone that she had been a witness of the gas chambers in operation at Auschwitz. Rassinier noted that there were of course rumors about gas chambers at Dachau too, but fortunately they were merely rumors. Indeed, one could trace them as far back as the sensational book by the German Communist, Hans Beimler, Four Weeks in the Hands of Hitler's Hell-Hounds: the Nazi Murder Camp of Dachau (N.Y., 1933).
Rassinier entitled his book The Lies of Odysseus in commemoration of the immemorial fact that travelers return bearing tall tales. Rassinier asked Abbé Jean-Paul Renard, who had also been at Buchenwald, how he could possibly have testified that gas chambers had been in operation there. Renard replied that others had told him of their existence, and hence he had been willing to pose as a witness of things that he had never seen (Ibid., pp. 209ff.).
Rassinier has toured Europe for years, like Diogenes seeking an honest man, more specifically somebody who was an actual eyewitness, of any person, Jew or Gentile, who had ever been deliberately exterminated in a gas oven by Germans during the course of World War II, but he has never found even one such person. He found that not one of the authors of the many books charging that the Germans had exterminated millions of Jews during the war had ever seen a gas oven built for such purposes, much less seen one in operation, nor had one of these authors ever been able to produce a live, authentic eyewitness who had done so.
And in summary (letting the book speak for itself:)
Admittedly the execution for no crime of any one human being, or a thousand, or a million, or six million is a horrible crime. But wanton exaggeration of atrocities for political and blackmailing purposes is a wrong, too, and honesty and accuracy are virtues. Facts available now are enough to prove that the figure of six million is a preposterous exaggeration of at least three million. Furthermore, all indications point to the likelihood that when the Soviets open up Eastern Europe for the same sort of investigation possible in West Europe, the legend of the six million will shrink some 90 per cent, and of the remaining casualties some will be proven to have died in the Warsaw uprising in combat, some to have been executed justifiably as partisans, and some to have been killed by non-Germans for collaboration with bolsheviks and, alas, also some to have been executed in the heat of war unjustifiably by the Nazis. For these Germany has been penitently straining every fibre to make restitution.
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Tom Strange
It doesn't really matter to me whether it's six million, three million or six hundred thousand... it was GENOCIDE and it was wrong... to deny it is wrong...
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GrouchoMarxJr
It seems strange to me that there are people responding to this thread who actually endorse" the myth of the 6 million"...as valid information...
They seem to cling to the Wierwillian mindset of wanting to have "superior" information in their quest for the "truth"...that's why so many cult members believe in these fringe conspiracy theories...their minds are suceptible to this particular form of propaganda...they're minds are fertile dirt for the all the fringe whackos to plant their seeds of bull sh it into...
...you can take the glassy eyed ones out of the cult, but you can't take the cult out of the glassy eyed ones.
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oldiesman
Very interesting stuff, What the Hey.
*************
This is a true stowray:
Years ago, I lent the book to a Jewish friend of mine to read, his name was Irving Halpern, who didn't agree with it except for one chapter in the appendix that he was thoroughly excited about, and agreed with profusely. It is quoted below.
It all seemed so hysterical ... that I read this book while in TWI, yet find out years later that this stuff can be real after talking with a friend who's name is referenced. Talk about interesting stuff!
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Tom Strange
Hey! I know a guy who has the last name of Halpern, too! small world...
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