Haven't heard of any lawsuits originated from TWI... what would they be suing for? Defamation of character? If the facts are being exposed, and they are doing the Word, they shouldn’t have anything to worry about. :unsure:
I would hope that they would have enough understanding of the first amendment that they wouldn't bother. As long as statements are either *true* or are said with *lack of malace*, they are protected.
Disclaimer - "I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice"
No..but I had an e-mail served on me by twi lawyers in New Zealand because of our website.
Our N.Z. site has been dropped recently (although I notice it still appears when typed in). We did not 'drop it' because of them, in fact I just ignored them for a year.
In fact I sent a reply email to the lawyers (quite a well known group) directing them to GS and asking them if they really wanted to be associated with a group like twi ??!! I never heard anymore. YAY for GS !!!!!
Neither did I 'drop the site' because of Garths disparaging remarks about it !! It was just outdated, we moved to Australia, a new guy at our church constructs websites for a hobby and the new site will be up late this week or early next week.
Not in real life--though I had a nightmare about being served for a lawsuit by twi a couple of nights ago. Of course I also keep dreaming that I am somehow stuck at a twi meeting and more miserable than ever before. :blink:
Have a resident here, Quiet been here a few months,
There are several things he has said that come straight from TWI.
He walked bast the desk Saturday. Saturday, being a slow day I'm really there just to answer phones and make sure strangers don't gain access to the living area, I usually do my lesson plan for Sunday School . He looks at me and says something to the effect of Christ not really dying on a Friday.
I don't know, I really don't And I don;t really want to go into those waters for a variety of reasons. But I notice whenever I've been more outspoken than normal About TWI and the past on these forums, I seem to see him watching me quite often.
He's not a threat and I don't have anything to worry about with 75 other people around --but I sometimes wonder
I don't know of any lawsuits, and the folks I know who were mailed copies of their posts directly from TWI with threats don't post here much anymore. Maybe I'll contact them to see if they'll share.
I think those folks were involved in the Allen & Parker cases and so they were a threat to TWI. I certainly wouldn't put it past TWI to try something legal using the posts on GSpot as a great deal of the foundation... although, hopefully their lawyers are smarter than that. ;)
I remember, too, there being some kind of uproar about someone posting about peeing in the fountain of living waters....
They certainly went to great lengths to track me down. It took them a couple of months to get the information, so I can only imagine the manpower and hours they put into trying to get that information.
Is his name Allan W. ??!! Just kidding...twi aren't/weren't the only ones that recognized that Jesus died on a Wednesday and was up sometime late Saturday.
I am just wondering if anyone knows of or has been served papers based on things they have posted on GSC. If twi hunts down postage meter information to bust someone, surely lawsuits based on posts by people here are not beyond their bag of tricks.
Anybody know???
I could be wrong and I am not an attorney, but to the best of my knowledge the individual posters cannot be held liable, instead the burden is completely upon the website owner.
That makes sense, because the website owner is facilitating/controlling all postings so naturally those folks are in complete charge of what gets posted, and therefore completely responsible.
He was sued for trademark infringement, not because of what he posted about TWI. TWI never would have bothered him, had he not been so intent on repeatedly infringing on their trademarks.
Laleo, my memory is vague regarding the details and I'm not sure these folks even want to talk about it. I prefer to not say anything more than that.
What I posted is all that I'm comfortable sharing. If those folks want to share more then I'm sure they will. :)
I'm uncomfortable with the fact that you won't back up your statement.
You have made the claim that people who have posted at GreaseSpot have been "threatened" by The Way for what they have posted here. If your memory is too vague to know if this is true, then maybe you should amend your statement.
I stand behind what I wrote and I if you don't want to believe that it happened, then that's fine by me. I'm not going to divulge details out of respect for the people who shared that information with me. If they want to talk about it, that's up to them.
I may not get all the details correct and I don't recall being told whether or not they wanted the details of their particular situations to be discussed.
The facts are TWI does monitor this site. They do keep files on people and they have used said files to threaten folks. They have used said files to M&A folks from TWI, too.
Doesn't bother me either way if you believe me or not, but I will not betray confidences just to satisfy someone's curiosity.
Belle, it's not about me satisfying my curiosity. It's about concern that people might be misled insofar as what risk they are taking by posting here.
Here's the thing. When you post something like that -- that people have been "mailed copies of their posts with threats" -- without offering any details, like how The Way acquired the person's identity and address, what the specific "threat" was, or what was posted, then it doesn't help clarify for anyone what the actual risk is in posting here, and may leave others with the impression that they will be harassed for their posts. Do you see what I'm saying?
I heard of one case where a person's posts were mailed to him, but I don't know of any threats. I'm not saying no one was threatened, I'm saying I haven't heard about it. I think threads like this help people understand what the risks are in posting on a public message board; that's why the details are important.
I'd like to know myself what the legal bounds are, and who has legal responsibility for what.
Oldiesman, I think you may have it backwards, but I don't know for sure.
Laleo, how would I know how they got someone's address and such? I can tell you how they tracked me down- Oakspear can tell you how they tracked him down.... I went through a lot of my personal experience of being tracked down in detail in my interview with Paw and it's extraordinary and surreal the lengths they will go to in order to track someone down.
Some folks use their real names on here - real easy to determine how they tracked them down. Others they must look at the bulk of that person's posts and try to piece together who they are based on what they post. Sometimes they try to hack into someone's logon - maybe they interview everyone in the whole friggin' REGION to hunt someone down.... That's why "warnings" are included in the welcome threads at the top of the "About the Way" forum. People need to know that TWI monistors this site very closely.
Fact is someone very well could be harrassed for their posts. It's a very real, very possible outcome from posting on here. Now, they are supposedly "kinder and gentler" and I think that for the most part folks have nothing to worry about, especially since they are posting the truth and most of what's posted here the WAYGB knows is the truth and it's certainly nothing they would want to pursue to the point of the information becoming public. Back during the lawsuit days they were scrambling and trying to cover their foot because they knew a lot of people knew a lot of information that would be very, very damaging to come out in court...that's not so much the case anymore.
Tom, I agree - having your posts sent to you would be considered a very powerful yet silent threat, imo.
I'm not trying to scare anyone - it is what it is. I haven't heard from anyone in TWI since I left and I've posted some pretty inflamatory stuff. I would hope they are dying of embarrassment over all the shenanigans they went through just to discover who I was. I doubt it, but I would like to think they are a little ashamed of themselves.
Generally, imo, everyone is safe here, but it IS nice to be aware of the WAYGB and the lengths they will go to if they feel threatened.
Just to clarify - the reason the folks I know don't post here much anymore is because of life - it has absolutely nothing to do with TWI or GSpot in any way - shape - or form. They contributed to the boards - got out of TWI - got involved in hobbies and things they never had time for in TWI and that's where they spend their time now.
It was either 2 or 3 years ago. I can figure it out closer if it's that important to anyone.
A GS poster, a friend of mine, received a threatening letter from a twi attorney (a name like #ary b*rns). They were ordered to send a cd they had received of pfal or something from vpw's collection to twi. They were also told to rat out who it was that gave this cd to them. They were given a time frame within which to "return this twi property" or else.
It was a demanding, threatening email. It also listed this person's real name, address and home phone #. They used a screen name on GS, not their real name.
I mentioned this to another GS poster, friend of mine, who said they'd received something similar from that same person, only I believe theirs came in the US Mail.
These two friends of mine live halfway across the country from each other.
We know a 'few' people who have PFAL on DVD.... Thought it was interesting, since they've been gone for at least 10+ years now...
Don't know who they received it from... but there are many out there that have it... I think copies are available for those that want it~
Didn't that green card we signed say we could be part of a class at anytime after taking it the first time? Well with a DVD you could be part of a class anytime... seems logical~
Belle, maybe you and I are talking about two different things. When you said "with threats," I thought maybe it was the threat of a lawsuit, and I wondered on what grounds The Way was bringing suit against a poster here.
The threats you describe are against current Way followers who post at GS. The Way has had a long-standing policy that they do not want their current members posting or visiting GreaseSpot, and they go to great lengths to find out who they are, when they do post. Once discovered, those posters become persona non grata at Way functions. For any current Way follower who posts here, if he wishes to continue his good-standing with The Way, it would be wise for him to carefully guard his identity.
Also, The Way has a long history of aggressively protecting their own trademarks, copyrights, etc.
The gray area to me is the accusations, insinuations, and inflammatory remarks made about The Way, and posted at GreaseSpot. I was wondering if anyone in The Way has threatened to sue for, say, defamation of character, libel, or something along those lines, for anything posted at GreaseSpot, or any other message board, for that matter.
Thanks, LG. He has it backwards, eh? Imagine that! Yeah, my (limited) understanding is that each person is legally responsible for what he or she posts. I think The Way (or whatever corporation or company planned to bring suit) would have some type of legal responsibility to contact the admin of the site and give him a chance to remove the objectionable material before bringing suit. But as far as the veracity of what is posted, it would be the author of the post, not the site administrator, who has primary responsibility, I would think.
Yeah, Laleo, I think we are talking about two very different things - sorry, I think the incident I'm talking about may better be described as intimidation maybe rather than threat. It was by no means a threat of a lawsuit....just a threat, personally....like they are watching and may use these posts and information to their advantage if necessary. I apologize for the confusion.....Dang, it's so hard, sometimes to communicate well via written word, eh? :huh:
On the other hand, BOWTWI's experience sounds very different.
I do think the WAYGB is dangerous and can be if they feel TWI is threatened too much. I know that they still monitor this site very closely and they still keep tabs on folks. I'm sure the Monkeyhinds are laughing saying, "I knew it!! I knew she was insurgent!!" Instead of admitting the lowest levels of humanity that they stooped to in order to try to find out that information. I'm also surprised that they let me subscribe to the ragazine, but that's another story in and of itself. <_<
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SafariVista
Haven't heard of any lawsuits originated from TWI... what would they be suing for? Defamation of character? If the facts are being exposed, and they are doing the Word, they shouldn’t have anything to worry about. :unsure:
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Jim
I would hope that they would have enough understanding of the first amendment that they wouldn't bother. As long as statements are either *true* or are said with *lack of malace*, they are protected.
Disclaimer - "I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice"
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allan w.
No..but I had an e-mail served on me by twi lawyers in New Zealand because of our website.
Our N.Z. site has been dropped recently (although I notice it still appears when typed in). We did not 'drop it' because of them, in fact I just ignored them for a year.
In fact I sent a reply email to the lawyers (quite a well known group) directing them to GS and asking them if they really wanted to be associated with a group like twi ??!! I never heard anymore. YAY for GS !!!!!
Neither did I 'drop the site' because of Garths disparaging remarks about it !! It was just outdated, we moved to Australia, a new guy at our church constructs websites for a hobby and the new site will be up late this week or early next week.
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dmiller
Shucks -- as much as I have posted, and talked about Duluth, Minney-soda,
I reckon they can find me easy enough -- if they want to! ;)
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penguin
Not in real life--though I had a nightmare about being served for a lawsuit by twi a couple of nights ago. Of course I also keep dreaming that I am somehow stuck at a twi meeting and more miserable than ever before. :blink:
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templelady
Have a resident here, Quiet been here a few months,
There are several things he has said that come straight from TWI.
He walked bast the desk Saturday. Saturday, being a slow day I'm really there just to answer phones and make sure strangers don't gain access to the living area, I usually do my lesson plan for Sunday School . He looks at me and says something to the effect of Christ not really dying on a Friday.
I don't know, I really don't And I don;t really want to go into those waters for a variety of reasons. But I notice whenever I've been more outspoken than normal About TWI and the past on these forums, I seem to see him watching me quite often.
He's not a threat and I don't have anything to worry about with 75 other people around --but I sometimes wonder
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Belle
I don't know of any lawsuits, and the folks I know who were mailed copies of their posts directly from TWI with threats don't post here much anymore. Maybe I'll contact them to see if they'll share.
I think those folks were involved in the Allen & Parker cases and so they were a threat to TWI. I certainly wouldn't put it past TWI to try something legal using the posts on GSpot as a great deal of the foundation... although, hopefully their lawyers are smarter than that. ;)
I remember, too, there being some kind of uproar about someone posting about peeing in the fountain of living waters....
They certainly went to great lengths to track me down. It took them a couple of months to get the information, so I can only imagine the manpower and hours they put into trying to get that information.
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allan w.
Is his name Allan W. ??!! Just kidding...twi aren't/weren't the only ones that recognized that Jesus died on a Wednesday and was up sometime late Saturday.
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WordWolf
Wasn't Pat Roberge sued by them?
Hm, they let the rights to
"thewayinternationalsucks.com" expire.
There was a time they had a redirect in it,
so that if you typed in that URL,
you got their main site. :)
=========
Here's something else re: him.
http://www.waychrist.com/1st_twi_letter.htm
=======
And I think twi was rattling their sabers over any member of the Wierwille
family making any corrections about Mrs W being pushed out of her home
by twi.
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laleo
Whose posts were mailed back to them? What were they threatened with?
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oldiesman
That makes sense, because the website owner is facilitating/controlling all postings so naturally those folks are in complete charge of what gets posted, and therefore completely responsible.
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Belle
Laleo, my memory is vague regarding the details and I'm not sure these folks even want to talk about it. I prefer to not say anything more than that.
What I posted is all that I'm comfortable sharing. If those folks want to share more then I'm sure they will. :)
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LG
He was sued for trademark infringement, not because of what he posted about TWI. TWI never would have bothered him, had he not been so intent on repeatedly infringing on their trademarks.
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laleo
I'm uncomfortable with the fact that you won't back up your statement.
You have made the claim that people who have posted at GreaseSpot have been "threatened" by The Way for what they have posted here. If your memory is too vague to know if this is true, then maybe you should amend your statement.
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Belle
I stand behind what I wrote and I if you don't want to believe that it happened, then that's fine by me. I'm not going to divulge details out of respect for the people who shared that information with me. If they want to talk about it, that's up to them.
I may not get all the details correct and I don't recall being told whether or not they wanted the details of their particular situations to be discussed.
The facts are TWI does monitor this site. They do keep files on people and they have used said files to threaten folks. They have used said files to M&A folks from TWI, too.
Doesn't bother me either way if you believe me or not, but I will not betray confidences just to satisfy someone's curiosity.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
good for you dear belle!
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laleo
Belle, it's not about me satisfying my curiosity. It's about concern that people might be misled insofar as what risk they are taking by posting here.
Here's the thing. When you post something like that -- that people have been "mailed copies of their posts with threats" -- without offering any details, like how The Way acquired the person's identity and address, what the specific "threat" was, or what was posted, then it doesn't help clarify for anyone what the actual risk is in posting here, and may leave others with the impression that they will be harassed for their posts. Do you see what I'm saying?
I heard of one case where a person's posts were mailed to him, but I don't know of any threats. I'm not saying no one was threatened, I'm saying I haven't heard about it. I think threads like this help people understand what the risks are in posting on a public message board; that's why the details are important.
I'd like to know myself what the legal bounds are, and who has legal responsibility for what.
Oldiesman, I think you may have it backwards, but I don't know for sure.
Do you know, LG?
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Tom Strange
It would seem to me that having your posts mailed to you by TWI could be taken as an implied "threat" all by itself...
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Belle
Laleo, how would I know how they got someone's address and such? I can tell you how they tracked me down- Oakspear can tell you how they tracked him down.... I went through a lot of my personal experience of being tracked down in detail in my interview with Paw and it's extraordinary and surreal the lengths they will go to in order to track someone down.
Some folks use their real names on here - real easy to determine how they tracked them down. Others they must look at the bulk of that person's posts and try to piece together who they are based on what they post. Sometimes they try to hack into someone's logon - maybe they interview everyone in the whole friggin' REGION to hunt someone down.... That's why "warnings" are included in the welcome threads at the top of the "About the Way" forum. People need to know that TWI monistors this site very closely.
Fact is someone very well could be harrassed for their posts. It's a very real, very possible outcome from posting on here. Now, they are supposedly "kinder and gentler" and I think that for the most part folks have nothing to worry about, especially since they are posting the truth and most of what's posted here the WAYGB knows is the truth and it's certainly nothing they would want to pursue to the point of the information becoming public. Back during the lawsuit days they were scrambling and trying to cover their foot because they knew a lot of people knew a lot of information that would be very, very damaging to come out in court...that's not so much the case anymore.
Tom, I agree - having your posts sent to you would be considered a very powerful yet silent threat, imo.
I'm not trying to scare anyone - it is what it is. I haven't heard from anyone in TWI since I left and I've posted some pretty inflamatory stuff. I would hope they are dying of embarrassment over all the shenanigans they went through just to discover who I was. I doubt it, but I would like to think they are a little ashamed of themselves.
Generally, imo, everyone is safe here, but it IS nice to be aware of the WAYGB and the lengths they will go to if they feel threatened.
Just to clarify - the reason the folks I know don't post here much anymore is because of life - it has absolutely nothing to do with TWI or GSpot in any way - shape - or form. They contributed to the boards - got out of TWI - got involved in hobbies and things they never had time for in TWI and that's where they spend their time now.
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bowtwi
It was either 2 or 3 years ago. I can figure it out closer if it's that important to anyone.
A GS poster, a friend of mine, received a threatening letter from a twi attorney (a name like #ary b*rns). They were ordered to send a cd they had received of pfal or something from vpw's collection to twi. They were also told to rat out who it was that gave this cd to them. They were given a time frame within which to "return this twi property" or else.
It was a demanding, threatening email. It also listed this person's real name, address and home phone #. They used a screen name on GS, not their real name.
I mentioned this to another GS poster, friend of mine, who said they'd received something similar from that same person, only I believe theirs came in the US Mail.
These two friends of mine live halfway across the country from each other.
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LG
He has it backwards, laleo, but in some cases, the forum owner/operator might also be held liable.
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SafariVista
We know a 'few' people who have PFAL on DVD.... Thought it was interesting, since they've been gone for at least 10+ years now...
Don't know who they received it from... but there are many out there that have it... I think copies are available for those that want it~
Didn't that green card we signed say we could be part of a class at anytime after taking it the first time? Well with a DVD you could be part of a class anytime... seems logical~
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laleo
Belle, maybe you and I are talking about two different things. When you said "with threats," I thought maybe it was the threat of a lawsuit, and I wondered on what grounds The Way was bringing suit against a poster here.
The threats you describe are against current Way followers who post at GS. The Way has had a long-standing policy that they do not want their current members posting or visiting GreaseSpot, and they go to great lengths to find out who they are, when they do post. Once discovered, those posters become persona non grata at Way functions. For any current Way follower who posts here, if he wishes to continue his good-standing with The Way, it would be wise for him to carefully guard his identity.
Also, The Way has a long history of aggressively protecting their own trademarks, copyrights, etc.
The gray area to me is the accusations, insinuations, and inflammatory remarks made about The Way, and posted at GreaseSpot. I was wondering if anyone in The Way has threatened to sue for, say, defamation of character, libel, or something along those lines, for anything posted at GreaseSpot, or any other message board, for that matter.
Thanks, LG. He has it backwards, eh? Imagine that! Yeah, my (limited) understanding is that each person is legally responsible for what he or she posts. I think The Way (or whatever corporation or company planned to bring suit) would have some type of legal responsibility to contact the admin of the site and give him a chance to remove the objectionable material before bringing suit. But as far as the veracity of what is posted, it would be the author of the post, not the site administrator, who has primary responsibility, I would think.
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Belle
Yeah, Laleo, I think we are talking about two very different things - sorry, I think the incident I'm talking about may better be described as intimidation maybe rather than threat. It was by no means a threat of a lawsuit....just a threat, personally....like they are watching and may use these posts and information to their advantage if necessary. I apologize for the confusion.....Dang, it's so hard, sometimes to communicate well via written word, eh? :huh:
On the other hand, BOWTWI's experience sounds very different.
I do think the WAYGB is dangerous and can be if they feel TWI is threatened too much. I know that they still monitor this site very closely and they still keep tabs on folks. I'm sure the Monkeyhinds are laughing saying, "I knew it!! I knew she was insurgent!!" Instead of admitting the lowest levels of humanity that they stooped to in order to try to find out that information. I'm also surprised that they let me subscribe to the ragazine, but that's another story in and of itself. <_<
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