Well, that's the short answer, anyway. I honestly think he's beyond help and I'm in no way qualified to even try. I don't wish him harm or ill in any way, but I don't care to ever have anything to do with him in my life again, either.
I think he's a classic Narcissist and, according to what I've read, only 1% of the population have that disorder and it can't really be treated because for it to be treated, the person has to realize that their ego is overblown and distorted and that they need help and they have to accept the help and to want to change.
I'm not a psychiatrist and I don't pretend to play one on TV, but I have done a lot of reading on this disorder and Craig Martindale is a classic example of it.
I used to ask myself, "If so-and-so (usually some twi 'leadership') came to my door naked, hungry, thirsty and homeless, would I help them?"
For the longest time I thought it my Christian duty to help.
Then one day I had an epiphany...or something...maybe a V8?
Anyway, I recognized that real help was something I could not provide. I also realized that there would be no way in he11 I'd expose myself, my husband or my children to these people again without at least one armed guard present on my behalf.
So then I decided that if any so-and-so came to my door in dire straights, I'd hand a blanket through the door, leave them standing on the porch, call the police and ask that they be escorted to the local Rescue Mission.
I'm still pretty happy with this decision at this point.
It depends on what you mean by help-- i wouldn't help him be restored to his former self, but if possible Id probably help him to sort through his stuff which is considerable and help point him in a better direction if I could and find and see who he really is and what he needs to do. I have no brilliant answers for him, Im guessing he doesnt have any for himself but even with knowing his past, maybe even more because of knowing his past and where it has lead him, i wouldn't turn him away- He would be welcome but at least for awhile he would be on a very short leash.
Ive known, welcomed and developed good productive friendships with people who have done worse things than Craig, just no one who had been so much in the limelight before. I am assuming that there is still a soul in there somewhere
Well.. if I saw him on the road w/ a flat tire... maybe... most insurances cover that sort of thing...
If he came to me for help... I don't see that happening... I'm not a Doctor...
If he tripped right in front of me, and his glasses fell off, and I could save them from getting stepped on~ yes, I would see myself lending a helping hand.
I would not give and evil look & walk away... That's just not my style...
Might throw in a question or two during the assistance process... ;)
I had to think about this long and hard. Most of you know I work for a transitional housing program run by the Salvation Army. So last night the thought came to me what if LCM were to come here for housing??
Say
I walk in the door and my Boss says, meet our new resident, Craig" and there he is
do I
1) hold out my hand and say welcome
2) do I say hi and then speak to my boss in private
3) DO I turn gray , start shaking , and shriek "GET Out YOU *&(%&^$^%$&^%*&^&)(&
I would like to believe that my response would be 1 and 2 combined
But I don't, kid myself it could very we'll be 3 depending on just how much of the past my kids and I are working through that week
Yes, sure. I help him if I can. Give him money what ever He needs. I pray for him sometimes. Maybe he got crazy- insane, but he is my brother and teacher. I never do nothing against him.
Mo, I love your answer. Because sometimes I think I would want to help the man, and sometimes I think I would just want to stomp all over him!!!
I guess I'd have to agree that it would depend on his genuine repentance. If he showed up on my doorstep asking for help, but not genuinely repentant, I think my nature would be to try and get him to see the truth, and have genuine remorse. But I lived with a subtle manipulator for a lot of years, so I think my BS-o-meter is finely tuned enough these days that I wouldn't try for long if I didn't see real results, real fast, you know? And I don't think I would stick my own neck out very far, in any case.
Because I know people, first hand, who simply cannot seem to learn from their mistakes in certain categories of life. And these are not generally stupid people. But it's as if they are just "broken" in that category. And I've learned that if I help them out of a bind, it's good for that ONE time. It will NOT help them to avoid that mistake again. It will NOT keep them from asking for my help the next time, and the next time and the next. There seems to be NO lasting impact or understanding of consequences for them in those categories. It boggles the mind, and it goes against my nature not to help. But I have come to accept it as fact, and so, for my own sake, I avoid being too involved with these people. I think that's how I would view Craig until he proved otherwise.
If his car broke down I'd call a tow truck....if he was hit by a car I'd call an ambulance. If he needed CPR, I'd do the chest compressions. If he wanted to dump about his life I'd have to refer him to someone with expertise in that area because I'm not qualified....but I would pray for him during the process.
From what I hear he needs help, so if he needed money I would ask how much? because you will be blessed no matter who it is. If he needed food I would feed him and so on. Because no matter what he may have done you will be blessed to help him out. While helping him you want to kill him then,
I COR 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor and through I give my body to be burned and have not the love of God in the renewed mind it profiteth me nothing
Then you will not be blessed, but feel burdened to do it. So I would be blessed to help a fellow believer and I would hope on the best for him (ICOR13:7). That is how I feel about it.
I think Craig needs go a bit deeper than food or money.
CK, Would you help an "unbeliever" the same as you would Craig ?
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
reading these 2 new post about craig {conversation}
i got to thinking
would i help craig if he asked and i guess the answer is yes
you don't have to like a person to help them if they are in need
how about you
what do you think?
I don't really know... but probably... kind of a "there but for the grace of God" kind of thing, at least that's usually how I try to approach situations of need...
Answer = yes. If I could, within my reach as it were. Certainly.
Craig extended himself to me once in a way that was very helpful, and he didn't have to. Although I was never really close to him or knew him really well, I'd known him for several years at the time and it was a very specific gesture on his part. There weren't any warm fuzzy hugs or back slaps and in that way it was very typical of the level of our friendship. There were no assumptions at all. He had a chance to do the right thing and he did. I'd feel obligated to return the gesture in kind to be honest.
Beyond that, anything that would help him move in the right direction would be a good thing. Who wouldn't do good for someone else if they could? No biggie.
I think Craig needs go a bit deeper than food or money.
CK, Would you help an "unbeliever" the same as you would Craig ?
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
Ok Goey I am not sure about the question, but my answer is
Luke 6:35 hoping for nothing and your reward shall be great, for he his kind to the unthankful and to the evil.
That is what I have been saying all along, help till you can't help do it with love and you reward will be great as the bible says. So yes I would still help LCM
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Belle
Nope <_<
Well, that's the short answer, anyway. I honestly think he's beyond help and I'm in no way qualified to even try. I don't wish him harm or ill in any way, but I don't care to ever have anything to do with him in my life again, either.
I think he's a classic Narcissist and, according to what I've read, only 1% of the population have that disorder and it can't really be treated because for it to be treated, the person has to realize that their ego is overblown and distorted and that they need help and they have to accept the help and to want to change.
I'm not a psychiatrist and I don't pretend to play one on TV, but I have done a lot of reading on this disorder and Craig Martindale is a classic example of it.
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J0nny Ling0
Sure, if he'd be honest and let me help him. But that would be the criteria, I spose. I certainly would not fear him, for I know I could take him...
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CoolWaters
I used to ask myself, "If so-and-so (usually some twi 'leadership') came to my door naked, hungry, thirsty and homeless, would I help them?"
For the longest time I thought it my Christian duty to help.
Then one day I had an epiphany...or something...maybe a V8?
Anyway, I recognized that real help was something I could not provide. I also realized that there would be no way in he11 I'd expose myself, my husband or my children to these people again without at least one armed guard present on my behalf.
So then I decided that if any so-and-so came to my door in dire straights, I'd hand a blanket through the door, leave them standing on the porch, call the police and ask that they be escorted to the local Rescue Mission.
I'm still pretty happy with this decision at this point.
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mstar1
It depends on what you mean by help-- i wouldn't help him be restored to his former self, but if possible Id probably help him to sort through his stuff which is considerable and help point him in a better direction if I could and find and see who he really is and what he needs to do. I have no brilliant answers for him, Im guessing he doesnt have any for himself but even with knowing his past, maybe even more because of knowing his past and where it has lead him, i wouldn't turn him away- He would be welcome but at least for awhile he would be on a very short leash.
Ive known, welcomed and developed good productive friendships with people who have done worse things than Craig, just no one who had been so much in the limelight before. I am assuming that there is still a soul in there somewhere
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SafariVista
Well.. if I saw him on the road w/ a flat tire... maybe... most insurances cover that sort of thing...
If he came to me for help... I don't see that happening... I'm not a Doctor...
If he tripped right in front of me, and his glasses fell off, and I could save them from getting stepped on~ yes, I would see myself lending a helping hand.
I would not give and evil look & walk away... That's just not my style...
Might throw in a question or two during the assistance process... ;)
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Jim
Help him out of Christian or brotherly love? Don't think I'm that good of a Christian.
Have a cup of coffee with him and listen to his story? Sure, out of curiosity.
Let him sleep on my couch. Um, no.
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ChasUFarley
Check himself into a hospital - yes.
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GarthP2000
... how about helping him 'check into' the nearest lockup, so he can turn himself in to the local authorities to answer for his criminal abuses?
Why sure! It's only the neighborly thing to do, doncha know.
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dmiller
Exodus 23:4 ---
If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his foot going astray,
thou shalt surely bring it back to him again.
The OT version of a *flat tire*, I guess!
Yea -- I'd help him -- No questions asked either.
(but should the occassion ever arise ---
I would hope I'm wearing my GreaseSpot T-shirt!)
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templelady
Would I help him ??
I had to think about this long and hard. Most of you know I work for a transitional housing program run by the Salvation Army. So last night the thought came to me what if LCM were to come here for housing??
Say
I walk in the door and my Boss says, meet our new resident, Craig" and there he is
do I
1) hold out my hand and say welcome
2) do I say hi and then speak to my boss in private
3) DO I turn gray , start shaking , and shriek "GET Out YOU *&(%&^$^%$&^%*&^&)(&
I would like to believe that my response would be 1 and 2 combined
But I don't, kid myself it could very we'll be 3 depending on just how much of the past my kids and I are working through that week
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dmiller
Hmmmmm. That says it all! ;)
(Just my (cough!!!) IMO -- don't cha know.) ;)
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Radar OReilly
WOW JIM!!!
YOU REALLY GOTTA STOP READING MY MIND AND THEN POSTING IT HERE
That pretty much sums up my feelings too........hell, I would even PAY for the coffee.
ror
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Shellon
Sure, I'd help the man, never in my home or anywhere near my children.
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WordWolf
I would not interfere with him nor seek to harm him-
with the proviso that stepping aside would not expose innocents
to unacceptable risk.
That having been said,
there are already plenty of people to help on my plate-
people who never had any of the things he had
previously.
So, if it came to it, he could end up on my list-
but it's a very long list, and he'd start at the bottom
like anybody else new.
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themex
Yes, sure. I help him if I can. Give him money what ever He needs. I pray for him sometimes. Maybe he got crazy- insane, but he is my brother and teacher. I never do nothing against him.
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Bug on the Wall
Mo, I love your answer. Because sometimes I think I would want to help the man, and sometimes I think I would just want to stomp all over him!!!
I guess I'd have to agree that it would depend on his genuine repentance. If he showed up on my doorstep asking for help, but not genuinely repentant, I think my nature would be to try and get him to see the truth, and have genuine remorse. But I lived with a subtle manipulator for a lot of years, so I think my BS-o-meter is finely tuned enough these days that I wouldn't try for long if I didn't see real results, real fast, you know? And I don't think I would stick my own neck out very far, in any case.
Because I know people, first hand, who simply cannot seem to learn from their mistakes in certain categories of life. And these are not generally stupid people. But it's as if they are just "broken" in that category. And I've learned that if I help them out of a bind, it's good for that ONE time. It will NOT help them to avoid that mistake again. It will NOT keep them from asking for my help the next time, and the next time and the next. There seems to be NO lasting impact or understanding of consequences for them in those categories. It boggles the mind, and it goes against my nature not to help. But I have come to accept it as fact, and so, for my own sake, I avoid being too involved with these people. I think that's how I would view Craig until he proved otherwise.
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sogwap51
If his car broke down I'd call a tow truck....if he was hit by a car I'd call an ambulance. If he needed CPR, I'd do the chest compressions. If he wanted to dump about his life I'd have to refer him to someone with expertise in that area because I'm not qualified....but I would pray for him during the process.
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excathedra
(((((((( soggie ))))))))
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Ca_dreaming
All I can do is pray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ckmkeon
Yes I would help him out,
From what I hear he needs help, so if he needed money I would ask how much? because you will be blessed no matter who it is. If he needed food I would feed him and so on. Because no matter what he may have done you will be blessed to help him out. While helping him you want to kill him then,
I COR 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor and through I give my body to be burned and have not the love of God in the renewed mind it profiteth me nothing
Then you will not be blessed, but feel burdened to do it. So I would be blessed to help a fellow believer and I would hope on the best for him (ICOR13:7). That is how I feel about it.
CK
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Goey
I think Craig needs go a bit deeper than food or money.
CK, Would you help an "unbeliever" the same as you would Craig ?
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
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Tom Strange
I don't really know... but probably... kind of a "there but for the grace of God" kind of thing, at least that's usually how I try to approach situations of need...
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socks
Answer = yes. If I could, within my reach as it were. Certainly.
Craig extended himself to me once in a way that was very helpful, and he didn't have to. Although I was never really close to him or knew him really well, I'd known him for several years at the time and it was a very specific gesture on his part. There weren't any warm fuzzy hugs or back slaps and in that way it was very typical of the level of our friendship. There were no assumptions at all. He had a chance to do the right thing and he did. I'd feel obligated to return the gesture in kind to be honest.
Beyond that, anything that would help him move in the right direction would be a good thing. Who wouldn't do good for someone else if they could? No biggie.
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ckmkeon
Ok Goey I am not sure about the question, but my answer is
Luke 6:35 hoping for nothing and your reward shall be great, for he his kind to the unthankful and to the evil.
That is what I have been saying all along, help till you can't help do it with love and you reward will be great as the bible says. So yes I would still help LCM
CK
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