I just find odd - that someone claims to have even a small interest in religious cults would say TWI never registered a serious blip on his radar.
You shouldn't find it odd at all. No one's heard of TWI, pretty much. It was always a wannabe organization.
About a year or two ago, I did a story noting that the greatest increase in the number of Hispanics in America was in Raleigh, North Carolina. True story. No other region had seen a greater increase: 900%.
I loved saying it, because it's so counterintuitive.
But while that fact is true, it can be misleading. The addition of every single Hispanic in the community had an effect on the numbers because the numbers were so small to begin with. If the Hispanic population of Raleigh went from 1 to 10, that would be a 900% increase. But it's still only nine people.
Why am I saying this? Because TWI was called something like the second fastest growing cult in America.
Well, duh, of course it was. The baseline was so small and the introduction of the marketing device of PFAL contributed to produce seriously impressive numbers, when you look at percentages. When you look at raw numbers, I've never even heard anyone claim "200,000." The most I ever heard was 100,000 having taken PFAL (though I imagine the actual number probably is closer to 200,000).
So, let's be generous. 200,000 members (assuming everyone who took the class stayed for a little while). In a population of some 250 million (give or take 50 million, depending on what year we're looking at). Someone check my math: 0.08 percent?
One in every 1,250 Americans.
And that's assuming a number of participants, 200,000, higher than anyone has ever claimed.
Jehovah's Witnesses, by contrast, have 5.6 million worldwide, 1.064 million in the U.S. They increase by 280,000 a year (in one year, they outdo TWI's 60-year track record. Think about that). They probably lose more people in a year than TWI ever had, too.
And we wonder why even a cult researcher never heard of TWI? Simple: TWI is a pis/s/ant organization that would have loved to be the cult everyone feared it would be, but it was at most a blip on the radar screen as far as these organizations go.
We think of it as significant because we were in it.
But as far as anyone looking to study cults, TWI was way low on a list of way lows.
Great point Raf. I have been reading these posts with great interest and had been desiring to write what you did. Why should the way be so huge to people. It isn't.
If you find a mention of the way in a book (like in "A Beautiful Mind") it gets your heart a racin! But thats because like Raf said we were in it. Not because it is a household (forgive the pun) name!
The Way is mentioned in A Beautiful Mind? What context?
I know it is in there. Now, arguments about whether or not it is actually OUR group can be presented, still.
In the book there is mention that he was approached by a biblical group called The Way that were witnessing on the street corner, etc. He made mention that afterwards they were weird, (and I believe that they met in their homes) so he left them. I wish I still had the book, my at the time fellowship was participating in a bookswap program so I gave mine up for others to read.
"... and talking about redemption and damnation .229 Soon he began hanging out with members of a small fundamentalist sect, the Way Ministry, and handing out leaflets and buttonholing strangers on street corners in Princeton."' ..."
and here is the start of the quote: "Assadi recalled, "He disappeared one day. When ... He had begun reading the Bible obsessively and talking about redemption and damnation .229 Soon he began hanging out with members of a small fundamentalist sect, the Way Ministry, and handing ..."
No, Bubba never did post here... but once upon a time , someone named Freud and his partner in crime Jung
did . And it seems they have since long departed. Perhaps they are sitting back and enjoying all the bickering and how the thread evolved into a "Sex, drugs and rock of ages" critique of TWI leadership.
Not that I disagree at all with the need to air the issue of the rapes that occurred, but is there gonna be a version three of this topic that perhaps could be kept on the subject? or Modcat, could this thread title be changed to better reflect the subject as this thread has progressed? In the years to come, it may be diffficult to find these rape posts hidden in a thread titled "Conversations with Craig"
QUESTION: Someone by the name of Loy C Martindale has a birthdate of 11/04/1948
I guess your meeting LCM and then finding out who he is was tantamount to meeting someone the likes of David Koresh or Marshall Applewhite. Considering the extent that they would go for what they believe in would give pause for anyone of sound mind to think how best to handle revealing of ones identity in a public forum.
So I think you acted sanely and rationally in view of the potential this man LCM has, you have seen him on his best behaviour. Most of us know the other side, and it ain't pretty. Your caution is warranted.
Speaking of books, wasn't there one called 'through the eye of the storm' (or something similar)
about a preachers life.? Seem to remember one part in the book he spoke about one of his sons who was messed up on drugs and was 'witnessed' to by some Way people. He went to the summer school at Ohio and learnt how to work and study.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
6
7
13
13
Popular Days
Apr 19
69
Apr 21
29
Apr 20
22
Apr 22
11
Top Posters In This Topic
diazbro 6 posts
Belle 7 posts
J0nny Ling0 13 posts
dmiller 13 posts
Popular Days
Apr 19 2006
69 posts
Apr 21 2006
29 posts
Apr 20 2006
22 posts
Apr 22 2006
11 posts
Posted Images
Raf
You shouldn't find it odd at all. No one's heard of TWI, pretty much. It was always a wannabe organization.
About a year or two ago, I did a story noting that the greatest increase in the number of Hispanics in America was in Raleigh, North Carolina. True story. No other region had seen a greater increase: 900%.
I loved saying it, because it's so counterintuitive.
But while that fact is true, it can be misleading. The addition of every single Hispanic in the community had an effect on the numbers because the numbers were so small to begin with. If the Hispanic population of Raleigh went from 1 to 10, that would be a 900% increase. But it's still only nine people.
Why am I saying this? Because TWI was called something like the second fastest growing cult in America.
Well, duh, of course it was. The baseline was so small and the introduction of the marketing device of PFAL contributed to produce seriously impressive numbers, when you look at percentages. When you look at raw numbers, I've never even heard anyone claim "200,000." The most I ever heard was 100,000 having taken PFAL (though I imagine the actual number probably is closer to 200,000).
So, let's be generous. 200,000 members (assuming everyone who took the class stayed for a little while). In a population of some 250 million (give or take 50 million, depending on what year we're looking at). Someone check my math: 0.08 percent?
One in every 1,250 Americans.
And that's assuming a number of participants, 200,000, higher than anyone has ever claimed.
Jehovah's Witnesses, by contrast, have 5.6 million worldwide, 1.064 million in the U.S. They increase by 280,000 a year (in one year, they outdo TWI's 60-year track record. Think about that). They probably lose more people in a year than TWI ever had, too.
And we wonder why even a cult researcher never heard of TWI? Simple: TWI is a pis/s/ant organization that would have loved to be the cult everyone feared it would be, but it was at most a blip on the radar screen as far as these organizations go.
We think of it as significant because we were in it.
But as far as anyone looking to study cults, TWI was way low on a list of way lows.
Edited by RafLink to comment
Share on other sites
learning
Great point Raf. I have been reading these posts with great interest and had been desiring to write what you did. Why should the way be so huge to people. It isn't.
If you find a mention of the way in a book (like in "A Beautiful Mind") it gets your heart a racin! But thats because like Raf said we were in it. Not because it is a household (forgive the pun) name!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
learning
I know it is in there. Now, arguments about whether or not it is actually OUR group can be presented, still.
In the book there is mention that he was approached by a biblical group called The Way that were witnessing on the street corner, etc. He made mention that afterwards they were weird, (and I believe that they met in their homes) so he left them. I wish I still had the book, my at the time fellowship was participating in a bookswap program so I gave mine up for others to read.
FOUND IT: (Amazon Search)
112. on Page 343:
"... and talking about redemption and damnation .229 Soon he began hanging out with members of a small fundamentalist sect, the Way Ministry, and handing out leaflets and buttonholing strangers on street corners in Princeton."' ..."
and here is the start of the quote: "Assadi recalled, "He disappeared one day. When ... He had begun reading the Bible obsessively and talking about redemption and damnation .229 Soon he began hanging out with members of a small fundamentalist sect, the Way Ministry, and handing ..."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Linda Z
Wasn't it the son of the guy A Beautiful Mind is about who was in twi? This came up a long time ago, and I'm pretty sure it was.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gbattleship
No, Bubba never did post here... but once upon a time , someone named Freud and his partner in crime Jung
did . And it seems they have since long departed. Perhaps they are sitting back and enjoying all the bickering and how the thread evolved into a "Sex, drugs and rock of ages" critique of TWI leadership.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HAPe4me
Not that I disagree at all with the need to air the issue of the rapes that occurred, but is there gonna be a version three of this topic that perhaps could be kept on the subject? or Modcat, could this thread title be changed to better reflect the subject as this thread has progressed? In the years to come, it may be diffficult to find these rape posts hidden in a thread titled "Conversations with Craig"
QUESTION: Someone by the name of Loy C Martindale has a birthdate of 11/04/1948
Can anyone verify Craig's birthdate for me?
~HAP
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
I remember his birthday being celebrated at HQ in November. I also remember him being just a tad younger than my mom. She was born in 1945.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
That is the right date (11/4/48).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Seth R.
Freud Welcome to GSC,
I guess your meeting LCM and then finding out who he is was tantamount to meeting someone the likes of David Koresh or Marshall Applewhite. Considering the extent that they would go for what they believe in would give pause for anyone of sound mind to think how best to handle revealing of ones identity in a public forum.
So I think you acted sanely and rationally in view of the potential this man LCM has, you have seen him on his best behaviour. Most of us know the other side, and it ain't pretty. Your caution is warranted.
Please do keep us posted.
Yours Truly,
Seth
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Nice post, Seth. :) I'm willing to hear this out as well.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Patriot
Not sure if anyone noticed, but Freud or Jung haven't posted since post #74 on page 4. :blink:
Hasn't detered anyone, has it?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Kinda like Revvel, down in the basement, eh??
But he has an agenda (IMO),
whereas Freud and Jung do not.
Again ---just my IMO.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
I think they didnt have anything else useful to add at the moment
beyond what they already posted,
so they didn't add anything not-useful.
:)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
allan w.
Speaking of books, wasn't there one called 'through the eye of the storm' (or something similar)
about a preachers life.? Seem to remember one part in the book he spoke about one of his sons who was messed up on drugs and was 'witnessed' to by some Way people. He went to the summer school at Ohio and learnt how to work and study.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
A la prochaine
Freud,
Did you get together with LCM this weekend?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.