Conversations with Craig Ver 2

[jkboehme]

As of spring 2004 LCM was neither attending TWI Twigs or HFs nor any denominational church.

As others have indicated, he has no remorse for any of his actions while in leadership in TWI.

[diazbro]

That's your problem, Diazbro. You have trouble with folks who behave differently than you think they should.

Thanks for the unsolicited analysis though I didn't really request one. As I've stated I am curious to know more about Mr. Freud and his motivations. The fact that you know all you need to know is fine by me. I'm happy to see where they lead. Living vicariously through Freud to get insight into Craig's current state of affairs is bit interesting and it does seem to have a certain appeal amongst the Gspot crowd. I'm not attempting to stop that.

Your Boston Church example doesn't fit since you don't know the leader of the church and didn't know him before finding out who he was.

Says who ?

Edited April 19, 2006 by diazbro

[outofdafog]

Okay but Freud mentioned that he didn't really know much about TWI and even if he did meet LCM why the interest

in getting people here to accept the image of LCM as a remorseful man ? What is his (or her) stake in all this ? What

is the payoff ?

I really think you are stretching what Freud was saying a bit. I do not think that he tried to come off that way. He stated that these are his personal observations.

I think we are getting a little paranoid a little too quickly. May be we have been at this sight for too long.

[Tom Strange]

Waybrain must be dug in deep to keep trying to read between the lines things that aren't there - not everyone speaks with doublespeak like TWI leadership.

now now Belle (or Louise)... I don't think it was necessary to invoke "waybrain" on diazbro... just disagree with him... people were "reading between the lines" things that aren't(or are) there long before TWI came around...

[dmiller]

Jung --- welcome to GreaseSpot. :) Thanks for helping *fill in* things.

And Freud -- thanks for re-starting this topic.

(As you see, we tend to *squabble some*!)

Topics can get derailed pretty fast around here.

Personally -- I think you are both on the level.

Please stick around and continue!

(yea -- I'm curious if Donna is officially his ex too.)

[dmiller]

For Freud and Jung ---

I don't remember if this was covered on the other thread ---

but the name GreaseSpot comes from a saying lcm had about folks who left the way --

"Leave twi, and you'll be a *greasespot by midnight*" (quote/ end of quote)

He was forceful enough and domineering enough, that many believed him and stuck around --

not wishing to incurr God's wrath if they left the org twi. :(

That was the Craig we knew. FYI.

Many left, regardless of his dire predictions.

And as you can see -- It's wayyyyy past midnight, and we're doing fine! :B)

[SafariVista]

Belle said:

When Craig talked about religion, what did he say? Were there specific topics he wanted to discuss? Was he sharing stuff or asking questions?

Does he talk about his kids at all? I wonder how their relationship is.

Very curious about these topics also... & is he still married… ??????

[karmicdebt]

"And as you can see -- It's wayyyyy past midnight, and we're doing fine!"

David,

Are you sure about that? There are a few for which I have some concerns... ;)

[dmiller]

Karmic --- welllllllllllllll ----- most of us anyway!

[Freud]

Folks,

There persists a notion that I am here to soften Craig's image among ex-TWI members. I have not an ounce of desire to reconcille Craig to people on this group. How in the world could anyone gather that from any post I have placed here? I'm simple relaying my experiences with him.

I assumed it was common knowledge that he was divorced. He did tell me that this was the case...along with other comments concerning his family in general.

Freud

[Belle]

Ahhh, no, Freud, they wouldn't tell us anything. I would ask about their relationship and would be told it's none of my business. :blink:

President of this group? Lauded himself and his family as "the" perfect example of a "Christian" family? Went so far as to teach about how wonderful they were and develop a whole class around them? Who spewed everyone's dirty laundry in front of God and everybody...most of which wasn't even true? THIS man who stuck his nose in everyone else's business????

And it's none of my business whether he's divorced or not???

I was so mad!! But I could only say so much because my ex husband would quickly try to shut me up to keep us from getting into trouble.

So, even today (from what I understand), they won't tell their "followers" whether or not Craig and Donna Martindale divorced.

And, JK, I also heard that he has no remorse whatsoever about what he did and the lives he ruined - he's only sorry that he got caught.

Tom, you're right - I shouldn't have resorted to "waybrain". I stand corrected and apologize for that - not for my post, though. ;)

[excathedra]

freud, can you tell me what kind of job he does without naming company or anything, please ?

[dmiller]

I try to imagine him pacing back and forth on stage waving his arms, gesturing wildly ranting about he doesn't want anybody's prayers unless they put out some money.

This type of "pay to pray" theology is not only unbiblical but ethically offensive.

You're right --- and thank you for that last sentence! ;)

The *pay to pray* concept has been an ongoing thing in twi, for many years. :(

It's called *abundant sharing* there. Go figure. <_<

Edited April 19, 2006 by dmiller

[outofdafog]

Freud (if that's your real name)

I understand your reasons for being here and I appreciate it. So many of us were kept in the dark for so long and manipulated and micro-managed and lied to and brow beaten. The truly interesting analysis of all this would be to find out why some of us put up with it and stayed. And why years later we are still talking about it. What does that say about us?? That ought to show you that our emotional investment in this outfit was deep and soul touching for some. Hence the spectrum of reaction. Bear with us.

For me it has always been the curtain being pulled away by Toto and finding out that the "wizard" was just a man. Not to speak for anyone else, but I think that is how alot of folks (I didn't say everyone) here feel. We were "duped" "conned" "snookered" "humiliated" "threatened" etc etc (the list could go on). There is a myriad of reactions to hear that "the wizard" appears to be having some bad days. Some would be happy and bask in his misery, others will feel compassion and sorrow, others could care less, others could and did see him for what he truly was and walked away and on and on and on............year after year after year.........perhaps that helps you to understand the strong reaction here........

I for one hope you could continue to share............it helps for us to try and understand...........

[J0nny Ling0]

Diazbro said;

But I do wonder why someone with no interest in TWI wants to post

I said it before Diazbro! This must be a hugely weird thing to him to have a casual acquaintence who appears to have some very deep problems beneath the surface, who, after stumbling upon his real identity and history, turns out to be the ex raving lunatic leader of a group whom he hurt very deeply! Why can you not see how this whole scene would not be totally intriguing to he and Jung? How come you can't see that dude? Are you dense? Freud NOW HAS INTENSE INTEREST BECAUSE IT IS SO INTERESTING! Yeah, that was a shout. Make no mistake about it...

Or, are you thinking that the whole thing is a trick and a scam?

Sorry bout that intense expression of my opinion, but, good golly Missy Molly!

Edited April 19, 2006 by Jonny Lingo

[Nottawayfer]

If I were in Freud's shoes and discovered an acquaintance was a former cult leader like Craig Martindale, I would want to post also to find out whatever I could. The reason would be: JUST BECAUSE! I wanna know. I used to get teased by my old roommate at HQ if I DIDN'T know about someone because I always met up with the new people and talked to them to find out about where they've been and what they did.

I'm sure it's very interesting to Freud to hear our POV and experiences based on what he has seen from martinpuke himself (especially based on his own studies).

[Rejoice]

Craig not only lost all he had in TWI, but because of naieve hero-worship, he substituted VPW for his own father.

I knew Craig early on; he had ambitions, but compared to my upbringing, he was a simple small-town boy. He wanted to be right----maybe a holdover from his jock days.

But I remember he had a good relationship with his family. It became more and more eroded under VP's tutelage. I have no idea what kind of father Craig was to his children, but it couldn't be good, considering how distorted his brain became.

Here he is in mid-life, staring at the fact that not only are his riches and position gone, he's lost time with family and friends can never be regained.

It's just sad----for anyone. Even though he's brought it upon himself, it's sad.

[ljn698]

Yeah!

Yeah! what Belle said

Well, Freud, as you can probably surmise by now, alot of the people in TWI

pretty much got the mushroom treatment whenever we dared to ask an honest

or innocent question about leadership folks

sometimes it is better to not know things i admit and understand that

but notice how at least 3 people (so far) have observed that even though

they were faithful followers of TWI, that as far as Craig's marital status was

concerned, that information was a closely guarded secret

now in the real world such secrecy would be considered inane, foolish, stupid

but, see, when you were a follower of TWI you always knew of at least one couple

who got divorced and the spouse who was faithful to TWI was always considered

"the injured party" by the group (regardless of the true circumstances) and the

spouse who you never saw or heard from again was always considered BY THE GROUP

(please note i'm not talking about in reality here)

to be, well it could be anything from "swayed by the cares of this world" all the way to

full blown "possessed by the devil"

and I'm sure the current TWI leadership probably doesn't feel too comfortable

having to answer anybody's questions about a guy who they formerly

(and not so long ago) hailed as "THE man of God for our day and time"

you know something, no matter what purpose freud and jung have for posting

this information, i think what i just posted will answer at least one of their questions.

[Jim]

Freud said....

There persists a notion that I am here to soften Craig's image among ex-TWI members. I have not an ounce of desire to reconcille Craig to people on this group. How in the world could anyone gather that from any post I have placed here? I'm simple relaying my experiences with him.

Freud,

It is within the realm of possibilities that someone might be a "plant", purposely put here by TWI to test and possibly try to modify Craig's image. Mind you, I'm not accusing you of being a plant, just that it is within the realm of what TWI might do.

I found your posts pretty much neutral and non-judgemental.

[ljn698]

i like and appreciate your posts too

one of the reasons i read posts on this and other sites

is to learn about whatever became of people i remember from TWI days

it used to be said of LCM that he could be heading up a fortune 500 company

if he wasn't the Prez of TWI

from what you said so far it doesn't exactly sound like he'll be washing his feet in the blood of the wicked anytime soon

oh well!

[diazbro]

Diazbro said;

I said it before Diazbro! This must be a hugely weird thing to him to have a casual acquaintence who appears to have some very deep problems beneath the surface, who, after stumbling upon his real identity and history, turns out to be the ex raving lunatic leader of a group whom he hurt very deeply! Why can you not see how this whole scene would not be totally intriguing to he and Jung? How come you can't see that dude? Are you dense? Freud NOW HAS INTENSE INTEREST BECAUSE IT IS SO INTERESTING! Yeah, that was a shout. Make no mistake about it...

Or, are you thinking that the whole thing is a trick and a scam?

Sorry bout that intense expression of my opinion, but, good golly Missy Molly!

Johnny,

Okay DUDE.... (or "BRUH") I don't see it as a trick or a scam. Maybe he did have a casual social encounter which led to the revelation (no pun intended) that the guy at the gym or whereever used to function as a general with a controversial religious organization. Fine. But what I'm seeing now is some very strange almost voyeuristic need for some Gspotters to hang onto every word this poster has to say. Whats next "What color workout clothes was Craig wearing when you last saw him ? Did he say what his favorite TV show was ? Did he speak about anyone in particular ? Oh please tell us Freud ! Its so important. Did he say anything about homos ? ". Seems to me that some still very much care about what LCM does and thinks to the extent that they are willing to accept any and all information that someone wants to offer as the equivalent as "gold" or some special insight into the mind of some bully. Do people really need to know if Craig is living in, for example, an apartment or is "underemployed" ? Does that mean that much to anyone aside from trivia value ? Does it change the fact that he was a cult leader who treated many abusively ? I don't think so.

But if someone needs an anonymous poster to "fill in the blanks" about what Craig has been doing in some period of years okay. But don't ask me to treat this person like he has "the words" to provide some type of key information that will drastically change things. It is weird, in my opinion, that someone would show up and start talking about experiences with LCM and ,worse, call him(her)self "Freud" as if they were in some elevated position to offer perspective and advice on how Craig was getting along. Its just another "bloke" on the internet as far as I'm concerned. What's next ? Someone is going to call me a "LCM lover" because I don't want to hang on to every word that a new arrival has to say about him ? I readily accept the fact that there is interest in what this poster has to say and I share that interest. I genuinely do. But I pose some basic questions about this person and others act as if I have offended the very source all true knowledge - as if my questions would offend Freud and he would stop posting thus depriving us of all those salacious details about LCM. Give me a freakin' break ! Its cool if he/she wants to post and as I've said, oh for the third time now, I'm not trying to stop that !

The fact that I don't care about Freud's post as much as others might appears to be a major source of irritation but so be it. If you want to hang onto every post that Freud has to say as if it were the latest installment in some prime time soap opera than by all means have it. But don't make the mistake that everyone has a similar compulsion. Yeah , Johnny, that *wasn't* a shout. Make no mistake about it..

Edited April 19, 2006 by diazbro

[dmiller]

It's ALL a part of the -----

[J0nny Ling0]

Look, it's fine to not have much interest in this guy and his friend. I just find it really strange that if he is authentic that you can't see why he would really be intrigued to post here and have a connection with those hurt by TWI and his "mild mannered and forlorn new acquaintence". I personally would find it fascinating, and would want to know more about him from those who actually know what he he was and maybe still is capable of...

And now, am I fascinated with he and Jung? I guess maybe you think people are slobbering all over him as they once did at a music thread Ted Farrell joined in on, which was, as a matter of fact fairly "syrupy". I guess I can't blame you for disliking that kind of thing. But I do not see this as the same as that. But, I do find it very interesting. People have speculated many things about LCM here at the GSCafe concerning what he's been doing after he lost the lawsuit and was given the boot. And so now, here comes a credible explanation as to what he is up to and what he acts like, and you find it weird that people are interested in it? I find that kinda weird myself. But, whatever.

I do find it irritating that you have decided that this guy is trying to get people to picture Craig as "remorseful" as well as "try and get us to reconcile with him" when really, once again, all he has done is report what he has seen. I see no reason to disparage him for his interest here. I would bet that if you were in his shoes, you would be interested if not fascinated too.

And, as far as the name Freud goes? Well, what's weirder? Word Wolf? Research Geek? Jonny Lingo? Tom Strange? Zixar (The Padawan Magi)? Sunesis (greek for "our thoughts flowing together as two rivers flowing to the sea")? On Top Of The World? Excathedra (words spoken from the throne)? Peruser? Karmicdebt? Greasy Tech? Liar Liar Pants on fire? Dot Matrix?

Many names here, like "Excathedra" are tongue in cheek names, and after reading many posts and seeing that, maybe he thought he would "go with the flow" and satyrically name himself "Freud". And then his friend, when introduced to the same site, follows suit with his buddy, and names himself after some other shrink...

And sorry for yelling. I just did a couple of hits of orange sunshine an hour before I posted that...

Edited April 20, 2006 by Jonny Lingo

[J0nny Ling0]

Diazbro. You said;

Give me a freakin' break ! Its cool if he/she wants to post and as I've said, oh for the third time now, I'm not trying to stop that!

Aha! You yelled too! :)

[Nottawayfer]

What is orange sunshine? I wanna know! Is it something I want to try? The helium is drying my throat out.......