We all have things in our past that we're not too proud of, Cool. (not me, mind you - I'm all sugar and spice - just speaking rhetorically. ;) ) Where is he today? What does he think? How does he act? What's he like TODAY?? How does he feel about having done that and having it in in past?
Do you know WHY he joined the KKK? Like, did he do it because it was an obligation in his family, for example, or perhaps he didn't know it was the KKK.... (don't laugh...)
My grandfather, who was the kindest, most caring, and excepting person in the world, accidentally joined the KKK. He was a Mason, Odd Fellow, etc., and it was in the 1950's when fraternies were popular. It was also in Maine, near Lewiston/Auburn area. Now, I know Chef will know this, but back then, and even until the mid-80's, it was very rare to see a black person in that area - or any other race. It's as white as it gets! Ayah!
So, my grandfather got into this fraternity, who never identified itself properly and didn't really spout the racial slurs, etc., that you'd expect to hear. It was a couple of months before he figured it out and confronted them. Of course he left right away - but he already had the tattoo marking they use - I think it's like three dots between the thumb and index finger.
So, I think if you have more information on his motive for joining and his reason(s) for leaving, that might be of help....
(And, no offence - I mean this in a kind way... I have a lot of respcect for you... )
How would you, likewise, explain how you were in a cult that discredits the Holocaust?
Too true...I grew up with an intense dislike of 'dark coloured' people, just because of some things I went through and people I associated with. As some of you know..I ended up marrying my coffee coloured sweetheart and now have 6 beautiful latte` coloured kids.
Too true...I grew up with an intense dislike of 'dark coloured' people, just because of some things I went through and people I associated with. As some of you know..I ended up marrying my coffee coloured sweetheart and now have 6 beautiful latte` coloured kids.
The guy might be given the benefit of the doubt.
Allen - I've seen your lovely wife - she'd make a preacher kick out a stained glass window! :)
In my lodge, when a petition is first submitted. It is read aloud in open lodge. We all have the opportunity to discuss the petitioner. Then a committee is appinted to investigate him. Their job is to 'investigate', and to meet with the petitioner and ask him some questions face-to-face, and finally to read a certain statement to him to prepare him to what is to come. Then the investigating committee reports back in open lodge, the results of their investigation. Again the entire lodge has the opportunity to discuss the petitioner. Then the ballot box is prepared and passed around, by the senior deacon. Then the ballot box is read, first by the Junior Warden, then by the Senior Warden, and finally by the Master of the Lodge; and together they declare what the condition of the ballot was. Whether it was found to be: "Fair, Clear and Bright", or Foul Cloudy and Bitter"
Any information that you have found is to be relayed to the lodge, for them to read and make judgement, before they ballot. White cube or black ball.
Wow, Chas, I was just looking at a documentary about this a couple of hours ago....
The KKK had a stronger presence in Maine in the 1930s than it did in the southern states. They were pushing for a Protestant separatism, and wanted the Franco-Americans (who were Catholic) out! The Francos were mostly Quebecois who'd hoped to emigrate here temporarily to work in the mills when their economy collapsed at the turn of the century. They kept their language and their culture, and their Catholic faith. They were also a strong voting block, which p.o.'ed the KKK.
Their descendants are still here, and many still try to keep at least some ties to their French heritage, through the arts and the French language. And there are some beautiful churches left, including Saint Peter and Paul's Basilica in Lewiston. The mills have been inoperative for years, and illiteracy is high among the former workers, who thought the mill would be their livelihood forever. But there is still an aftermath of prejudice -- I cracked up the first time I heard someone comment on a dumb move someone made by saying, "That's so French!"
So I don't know that I'd disallow him, chef, but I'd sure want to know why he joined the Klan, and where his beliefs are at now!
Being a southern girl, I hafta say I side with what Belle and Chas say....where's he at now?
Now, back in the '50s & '60s it was fairly common for people to be in the KKK down here but one thing that strikes me is that this guy was in the KKK in 1980. That was a different time. I'd dismiss it easily if it were in the 50's or 60's, but the 80's? Not so fast...
Look carefully at what he's been up to lately. I think it is absolutely obscene to be racist in this day and age and I'd be darn careful to keep a racist away from any group I cared about (or, I'd be careful that I'd stay far, far away from such a group).
I think I would check with the State or National Headquaters of your group about this and see what they would do. It could become a legal matter.
As Shaz says, the KKK were very much against us with French Catholic background. I have a copy of a documentary that shows marches in Portland by the KKK against those with French Heritage in Maine. I also remember the rally here at that members farm.
Just last week I was asked to help out with a computer problem at a local organization and I was surprised to hear about someone making a comment there about how it use to be a better organization before the "Acadian French" joined. Cultural bigotry is still here.
Two keys, in my mind. First, he hosted a kkk rally which, to me, indicates more than a casual, passing interest. Second, it was only 20 years ago, roughly 1986. If it were my club, I wouldn't hesitate to give him a thumbs-down. But then, I'm prejudiced--against bigoted hate groups who wear stupid pointy hoods to hide their stupid faces.
When I was a WOW in Wheeling WV, 1979-80, I encountered a kkk rally near where I worked. These yahoos were standing out by the street in broad daylight with their hoods and their robes, waving to passersby to come join in. I waved back, but with only one finger extended on my waving hand. Seeing them made my skin crawl. Just seeing those three initials makes my skin crawl.
what i am going to do is call the man back for a more in depth interview and plain out ask him what was up in his head at the time and what he has been doing with his life sience then
Like you I vehemently oppose the agenda of hate and poisonous racial and religous bigotry of the Ku Klux Klan. However, my gut instinct would be give the guy the benefit of the doubt that he has changed if you are satisfied with he has unequivocally renounced the hate and bigotry of the Klan.
Here are some questions you may want to ask?
How would you feel if your child's best friend was black and he asked you for permission to sleep over?
How would you feel if childs school dedicated a week to understanding the halocaust and brought in some concentration camp survivors to recount their experiences?
How would you feel if your supervisor resigned and was replaced by a person of color?
Why did you leave the KKK? What informs your new belief of inclusion of minorities in the mainstream of American society is a good thing?
If he can provide you with straightforward and direct answers to these questions without qualifications. I would say give him the benefit of the doubt. If he hedges at all, he probably has not changed his attitudes.
Why would over one million New England French living next door to seven million of their Quebec brethren suddenly lose their language and find their culture invisible after having resisted "Melting Pot America" and preserved their heritage longer than most immigrant groups? The answer lies in the story of a campaign by Protestant elites to suppress the French Catholic religion that resulted in a locally resurgent Ku Klux Klan in New England giving states like Maine and Massachusetts more KKK members than any Southern state including Mississippi or Alabama. The film documents the rise of the KKK, their campaign of terror against the French, and its psychological effect on the French community resulting in invisibility and language loss.
Onion & Chef - Y'all are from Maine, so I'm sure you may be familiar with the Portland radio station, WBLM. Do you remember a comic character they used to feature named "Frenchy"? He spoke in that choppy Franco-American dialect ("I thank you, me!) and was rather stereo-typical about his French jokes (everything was backwards, colorful, etc.) Do you remember? He was taken off the air in the 1990's I think because he offended some people. Anyhow, I wonder if his going off the air was due to any of these groups speaking out. Personally, I thought he was endearing and could swear I knew several people just like him in real life, BUT I not French - so perhaps it would have struck me differently, if I was. I suppose I could see how someone could be offended - but I was sorry to see Frenchy go off the air....
I've known Klansmen for 20 something years, they used to hold ralleys in town until the kids started raising a ruckus n then they quit. Their Georgia headquarters lies about 15 miles from here and is featured on television periodicly. It shares the mobile home with the folks that run the thing. The last time I saw them on tv there was a washer n dryer on the porch and a rebel flag flying from the porch post.
The KKK during the 80's was led (if I remember correctly) by a brash newcomer whose name escapes me at the moment, I believe he even tried to run for President or Congress or something. He tried to put a good face on the klan but in the face of increasing public dislike of prejeduce and recism and lack of interest from membership his grand vision failed to materialize. Since then they have been hit with several costly lawsuits and most folks see the few that are left as remnants of a by gone day.
Him putting on his application seems to me to be coming from a bit of honesty on his part.
The KKK during the 80's was led (if I remember correctly) by a brash newcomer whose name escapes me at the moment, I believe he even tried to run for President or Congress or something. He tried to put a good face on the klan but in the face of increasing public dislike of prejeduce and recism and lack of interest from membership his grand vision failed to materialize.
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Belle
We all have things in our past that we're not too proud of, Cool. (not me, mind you - I'm all sugar and spice - just speaking rhetorically. ;) ) Where is he today? What does he think? How does he act? What's he like TODAY?? How does he feel about having done that and having it in in past?
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ChasUFarley
Do you know WHY he joined the KKK? Like, did he do it because it was an obligation in his family, for example, or perhaps he didn't know it was the KKK.... (don't laugh...)
My grandfather, who was the kindest, most caring, and excepting person in the world, accidentally joined the KKK. He was a Mason, Odd Fellow, etc., and it was in the 1950's when fraternies were popular. It was also in Maine, near Lewiston/Auburn area. Now, I know Chef will know this, but back then, and even until the mid-80's, it was very rare to see a black person in that area - or any other race. It's as white as it gets! Ayah!
So, my grandfather got into this fraternity, who never identified itself properly and didn't really spout the racial slurs, etc., that you'd expect to hear. It was a couple of months before he figured it out and confronted them. Of course he left right away - but he already had the tattoo marking they use - I think it's like three dots between the thumb and index finger.
So, I think if you have more information on his motive for joining and his reason(s) for leaving, that might be of help....
(And, no offence - I mean this in a kind way... I have a lot of respcect for you... )
How would you, likewise, explain how you were in a cult that discredits the Holocaust?
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dmiller
So has this fella lived there all this time??
Belle's got a point when she asks if you know what he is into today.
If that was an indiscretion he did 20 years ago -- that's one thing.
If it is something he is currently involved in -- that's another.
And also -- when you say he *hosted* the event ---
does that mean he organized the entire thing on his own,
or was he approached by kkk members to *do the honors*?
And (not knowing what your club is about), does he violate the principles you all hold in common?
Everyone has a part of their past they are not proud of.
And how about the two that sponsored him?
How do they know him, and what do they say about him?
And --- how easy is it to kick him out, if he's a *bad apple*?!?!?
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allan w.
Too true...I grew up with an intense dislike of 'dark coloured' people, just because of some things I went through and people I associated with. As some of you know..I ended up marrying my coffee coloured sweetheart and now have 6 beautiful latte` coloured kids.
The guy might be given the benefit of the doubt.
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ChasUFarley
Allen - I've seen your lovely wife - she'd make a preacher kick out a stained glass window! :)
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Galen
In my lodge, when a petition is first submitted. It is read aloud in open lodge. We all have the opportunity to discuss the petitioner. Then a committee is appinted to investigate him. Their job is to 'investigate', and to meet with the petitioner and ask him some questions face-to-face, and finally to read a certain statement to him to prepare him to what is to come. Then the investigating committee reports back in open lodge, the results of their investigation. Again the entire lodge has the opportunity to discuss the petitioner. Then the ballot box is prepared and passed around, by the senior deacon. Then the ballot box is read, first by the Junior Warden, then by the Senior Warden, and finally by the Master of the Lodge; and together they declare what the condition of the ballot was. Whether it was found to be: "Fair, Clear and Bright", or Foul Cloudy and Bitter"
Any information that you have found is to be relayed to the lodge, for them to read and make judgement, before they ballot. White cube or black ball.
:)
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shazdancer
Wow, Chas, I was just looking at a documentary about this a couple of hours ago....
The KKK had a stronger presence in Maine in the 1930s than it did in the southern states. They were pushing for a Protestant separatism, and wanted the Franco-Americans (who were Catholic) out! The Francos were mostly Quebecois who'd hoped to emigrate here temporarily to work in the mills when their economy collapsed at the turn of the century. They kept their language and their culture, and their Catholic faith. They were also a strong voting block, which p.o.'ed the KKK.
Their descendants are still here, and many still try to keep at least some ties to their French heritage, through the arts and the French language. And there are some beautiful churches left, including Saint Peter and Paul's Basilica in Lewiston. The mills have been inoperative for years, and illiteracy is high among the former workers, who thought the mill would be their livelihood forever. But there is still an aftermath of prejudice -- I cracked up the first time I heard someone comment on a dumb move someone made by saying, "That's so French!"
So I don't know that I'd disallow him, chef, but I'd sure want to know why he joined the Klan, and where his beliefs are at now!
Regards,
Shaz
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Robes
Being a southern girl, I hafta say I side with what Belle and Chas say....where's he at now?
Now, back in the '50s & '60s it was fairly common for people to be in the KKK down here but one thing that strikes me is that this guy was in the KKK in 1980. That was a different time. I'd dismiss it easily if it were in the 50's or 60's, but the 80's? Not so fast...
Look carefully at what he's been up to lately. I think it is absolutely obscene to be racist in this day and age and I'd be darn careful to keep a racist away from any group I cared about (or, I'd be careful that I'd stay far, far away from such a group).
hugs,
robi
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OnionEater
Chef
I think I would check with the State or National Headquaters of your group about this and see what they would do. It could become a legal matter.
As Shaz says, the KKK were very much against us with French Catholic background. I have a copy of a documentary that shows marches in Portland by the KKK against those with French Heritage in Maine. I also remember the rally here at that members farm.
Just last week I was asked to help out with a computer problem at a local organization and I was surprised to hear about someone making a comment there about how it use to be a better organization before the "Acadian French" joined. Cultural bigotry is still here.
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allan w.
Thanks for the compliment Chas...I'll pass it on, she'll be tickled !
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Linda Z
Two keys, in my mind. First, he hosted a kkk rally which, to me, indicates more than a casual, passing interest. Second, it was only 20 years ago, roughly 1986. If it were my club, I wouldn't hesitate to give him a thumbs-down. But then, I'm prejudiced--against bigoted hate groups who wear stupid pointy hoods to hide their stupid faces.
When I was a WOW in Wheeling WV, 1979-80, I encountered a kkk rally near where I worked. These yahoos were standing out by the street in broad daylight with their hoods and their robes, waving to passersby to come join in. I waved back, but with only one finger extended on my waving hand. Seeing them made my skin crawl. Just seeing those three initials makes my skin crawl.
I guess you know which way I'd vote, eh?
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
thank you all for the insight
what i am going to do is call the man back for a more in depth interview and plain out ask him what was up in his head at the time and what he has been doing with his life sience then
then i will do a state police check on him
again thanks
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dmiller
:) :) :)
Good luck!!
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year2027
God first
Beloved coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
God loves you my dear friend
What I would do is ask him about it maybe he was invited not knowing what he was getting into
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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OnionEater
Chef
Come on over and I will show you the video I have of the KKK activities in Maine against the French Americans.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
will do oe
peace
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oenophile
Cool,
Like you I vehemently oppose the agenda of hate and poisonous racial and religous bigotry of the Ku Klux Klan. However, my gut instinct would be give the guy the benefit of the doubt that he has changed if you are satisfied with he has unequivocally renounced the hate and bigotry of the Klan.
Here are some questions you may want to ask?
How would you feel if your child's best friend was black and he asked you for permission to sleep over?
How would you feel if childs school dedicated a week to understanding the halocaust and brought in some concentration camp survivors to recount their experiences?
How would you feel if your supervisor resigned and was replaced by a person of color?
Why did you leave the KKK? What informs your new belief of inclusion of minorities in the mainstream of American society is a good thing?
If he can provide you with straightforward and direct answers to these questions without qualifications. I would say give him the benefit of the doubt. If he hedges at all, he probably has not changed his attitudes.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
phile
thanks for that insight
it's good
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ChasUFarley
I don't think the issue will be a black issue, but more likely a Roman Catholic issue.
Here's something interesting I found in my travels:
HISTORY OF ANTI-FRENCH ACTIVITY
THE KKK IN MAINE
Steven King's wife's family changed their name from a French name to an Anglicised version, because of the Ku Klux Klan in Maine, who targeted Catholics, who had arrived by way of French Canada. In Maine, beginning with the 1920s and for the next 50 years, the KKK found Francophones to be easy targets for their bigotry. In the 1920s, an anti-language bill found fertile ground in the Legislature and with a governor who was a KKK sympathizer. The law was on the books until 1976 when Franco legislators, led by Elmer Violette and Émilien Lévesque, were able to persuade their colleagues to recognize the injustice and strike the offensive law. (Source)
(Copied from: http://www.miquelon.org/antifrench.html)
Also, consider this snippet:
Why would over one million New England French living next door to seven million of their Quebec brethren suddenly lose their language and find their culture invisible after having resisted "Melting Pot America" and preserved their heritage longer than most immigrant groups? The answer lies in the story of a campaign by Protestant elites to suppress the French Catholic religion that resulted in a locally resurgent Ku Klux Klan in New England giving states like Maine and Massachusetts more KKK members than any Southern state including Mississippi or Alabama. The film documents the rise of the KKK, their campaign of terror against the French, and its psychological effect on the French community resulting in invisibility and language loss.
(Copied from: http://www.wakingupfrench.com/about.shtm)
Onion & Chef - Y'all are from Maine, so I'm sure you may be familiar with the Portland radio station, WBLM. Do you remember a comic character they used to feature named "Frenchy"? He spoke in that choppy Franco-American dialect ("I thank you, me!) and was rather stereo-typical about his French jokes (everything was backwards, colorful, etc.) Do you remember? He was taken off the air in the 1990's I think because he offended some people. Anyhow, I wonder if his going off the air was due to any of these groups speaking out. Personally, I thought he was endearing and could swear I knew several people just like him in real life, BUT I not French - so perhaps it would have struck me differently, if I was. I suppose I could see how someone could be offended - but I was sorry to see Frenchy go off the air....
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OnionEater
How can you tell I French me? By my accident?
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herbiejuan
I've known Klansmen for 20 something years, they used to hold ralleys in town until the kids started raising a ruckus n then they quit. Their Georgia headquarters lies about 15 miles from here and is featured on television periodicly. It shares the mobile home with the folks that run the thing. The last time I saw them on tv there was a washer n dryer on the porch and a rebel flag flying from the porch post.
The KKK during the 80's was led (if I remember correctly) by a brash newcomer whose name escapes me at the moment, I believe he even tried to run for President or Congress or something. He tried to put a good face on the klan but in the face of increasing public dislike of prejeduce and recism and lack of interest from membership his grand vision failed to materialize. Since then they have been hit with several costly lawsuits and most folks see the few that are left as remnants of a by gone day.
Him putting on his application seems to me to be coming from a bit of honesty on his part.
I'd ask a bit more about it
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dmiller
Herbie -- wasn't that David Duke??
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ChasUFarley
Love it!
Although I'm not French, just hearing that accent brings me home (I'll explain why sometime, it's a little complicated) - anyhow - I love that accent!
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dmiller
OE -- Nope. It's the canoe, and the ALLO greeting!!!
(Voyegeur, Grand Portage, bundles of fur, ahhhhh!) ;)
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