Being mostly in twig areas with no WC, in most areas that Bonnie and I were in, we were able to encourage folks to read their own Bibles. We kept a glass jar in public view and when questions arose about doctrine, or anything that we really did not feel that we could comfortably discuss in biblical detail. We wrote the question out on a slip of paper and put it in the jar. Whatever topic we were working on, as soon as we were done, someone would pick another slip of paper out from the jar.
The first few times, we walk through doing a word-study on a simple word used ten times.
Then:
"Lets all do word-studies on 'X' and anyone who finds something interesting can share it next week."
or
"these are all the uses of 'X', if you take the first twenty, I will take the second twenty, and on until everyone is included and all verses are looked at. Everyone just remember to read the context and look for clues in the context that describe the meaning of the word. then next week, we will take turns and review what we have found, to compile it into a single definition of this word, or into categories of definitions."
We once did a very lengthy and involved study on all aspects of marriage and family life. We looked up every word translated father, mother, brother, sister, husband, wive, concubine, kin, etc. It took our twig months. I went out to sea with all the notes, and spent months underwater trying to compile it into a single thesis paper.
In our last fellowship where we ran PFAL, our last one was on 'dishonesty'. It kind of broke up the fellowship. One couple insisted that it was a silly word to look at. "Everyone knows what dishonest is". As it turns out, did you know that the Author of the Bible only uses the terms for 'dishonest' in the context of business dealings? Never in personal dealings, and never when someone 'mis-represented' through leaving out information. Only when talking about business. Hmm.
For the most part, the Way Corps were the mechanism by which Wierwille kept control over the organization. Since you usually were outside the direct supervision of those loyal to Wierwille you were able to set your own agenda, and from what you have said in these forums, stood up to those who tried to coerce you to go in a different direction.
in most areas that Bonnie and I were in, we were able to encourage folks to read their own Bibles.
I have never been in an area, even those run by "clergy" who didn't encourage people to read their own bibles. Discouraged from having thoughts about that same bible that didn't line up with "doctor's" thoughts? You bet!
Well, Galen, I think we've all pretty much come to the conclusion that you and OM have vastly different experiences with TWI than the other 99.999% of us.
Oak, my ex used to pride himself on "studying" the Bible. Funny thing is, studying the Bible as taught in TWI really just mean re-reading the scriptures that they had already read to us, looking up those in the parentheses that were just referred to and writing them in our syllabus.
We'd look up the word in the concordance and see that it said what they said it said.
We'd "maybe" look up a few other verses using that same word in the same manner for a teaching to show how spiritually adept we were at studying.
We'd use our "scripture reference" to see where those verses were used in other TWIt publications.
In short - we became very adept at re-packaging what we were taught and teaching it as if it was something new we had come up with. I didn't really study or look very deeply into any scriptures until you and I started corresponding and you helped me with the "epiluo" study, shared with me your work on "the face of the deep" and many other things.
I was really "working the word" when Chris Jordan came out with her paper on debt, but I had learned those things from YOU and others here on the board - not from TWI.
I was afraid to touch the PFAL thread JBarrax has so kindly preserved and Geek's Top 10 and Raf's awesome threads as well. They were over my head and just too much for me to comprehend.....pity, because if TWI was a true research ministry, I should have been prepared and excited to show them what true research was and how it backed what we were taught. As it is, they were the ones with the true research skills and the results of such research was pretty damaging to TWI.
Here's an excerpt from the WayRag Article thread and the "new" WC in-residence training class they have:
****
In the fall the students focused on a series of study times called “Ministry Resources Studies” TWI provides resources such as oral teachings and written publications that contain Biblical research and teaching. This research and teaching of God’s word helps people to understand and apply it. During these study times, the in-res WC learn to adeptly utilize these resources to help themselves and others.
The students were presented with hypothetical but common situations where they may be called to serve. In searching out word-based solutions, they learn to use the word taught in current STS services and Rag articles, on TWIs website and in our ministry books, publications and oral teachings.
One student in the final year of training shares, “The ministry resources study times are not only inspiring to me to dig deeper into the truths we have available right at our fingertips, but they’re also building my confidence in becoming a minister. I have more boldness now in knowing where to go to help people in various life situations. What is even more exciting is that I am building such a healthy word-based habit in my life, and I can help others build it in theirs.”
Study hall is also a focused time in the Bible that helps the students build strong study habits. One recent grad writes, “Working in the publications dept at hq allows me to use many of the things I learned in study hall. Each day I believe to help make each publication the best before it goes to print. It’s an exciting adventure, and I work with loving and encouraging people – a team of WC and AC grads. I am thankful for the training that showed me how to build hours of disciplined study into my life in that wonderful Household Commons Library….”
... It was never about "Biblical research" - it was about grooving our minds to match what Wierwille was putting out.
I agree, it was about believing the Word of God that Dr. Wierwille was teaching.
All those who chose not to believe, left.
This concept is not different from many religions who stick with their own ideology and interpretations and those who disagree or cannot accept those ideologies, leave.
The church of my youth is like that, among others.
I remember that in my twig when we were called upon to teach a lesson we were allowed to do as much research as we liked. But I was in before the emphasis was placed on using syllabi's and only TWI materials
In the mid to late nineties our teachings were scheduled--one night was for Way mag(current), one for Wap class, whichever segment we were on, and one form the SST. Teaching were supposed to be 10min long, and we were to hit the high points of the Way material. It was all review.
I did a teaching one night where I took off on something, and taught, not a review. After that I had to clear all my teachings with the HFC prior to the Fellowship!
Oh--the teaching I did really blessed alot of people in the fellowship that night. One guy, who had been in our twig way out in a small town was all nostalgic--'remember when we had twig at your little house?'
Yeah, back when it was friendly and kind and fun...
I guess it depends on what your definition of biblical research is.
I knew several people in the "research department" - this was back when Wierwille was still alive. We discussed several situations where it was obvious to them that the biblical texts did not support Weirwille's teachings, but that he was not open to even hearing about it. Others in the past had been publically denounced and kicked out for stuff like that.
One of these people told me they were "researching" under the assumption that what VPW taught was right even if there were no texts to prove it, but that there must have been a text that said that (or a way of understanding it to mean thus) back in "the original" because VPW had such spiritual insight he must have been right.
One man I know of got a degree at a real university, and still worked at the way. He would not, however, put his name to any way articles for fear of being discredited by the academic community.
You can call that biblical research if you want, I don't think there's a law against it.
People will tell you some of the work the way did with the Aramaic interlinear and other things were cutting edge and respected outside the way. I don't doubt that, but that work was pretty technical - basically just spending the time and money to do a compilation of stuff. It wasn't about uncovering new insight.
Putting "The Way" and "research" in the same sentence? Isn't that like oxymoron squared?
Having been in the research community ( no not biblical - university earth science ) you sometimes come up with the following final report; "The results were inconclusive." I never heard VPW or LCM say that. They always had some glib comment about the Apaches, or gays, or Jews, but NEVER was it inconclusive - unless of course we were told that we just hadn't found the text yet.
... It was never about "Biblical research" - it was about grooving our minds to match what Wierwille was putting out.
I agree, it was about believing the Word of God that Dr. Wierwille was teaching.
All those who chose not to believe, left.
This concept is not different from many religions who stick with their own ideology and interpretations and those who disagree or cannot accept those ideologies, leave.
The church of my youth is like that, among others.
Yes, but Wierwille claimed to be different, PFAL was promoted as a method to make the bible your own so that you wouldn't have to depend on ministers and professors and priests. That never happened, and those who thought it did, ended up leaving for one reason or another.
Seems in TWI, we were taught rudimentary study skills. And even some of those are/were questionable.......
Good point. If the conclusions that you reach are based on false premises, or a flawed methodology, the ansers that you get are going to be skewed.
For example: if you base your research on a definition of the Greek word pros that is incorrect, it will affect your conclusions.
What about even "common sense" keys like "first usage" determining the meaning? Is that necessarily true? Or the TWI habit of breaking down Greek and Hebrew words into their component parts and assigning the meaning based on the definition of the root without regard to the word's evolution?
How about the key that the few "unclear" verses should be understood in light of the many "clear" verses? Often "clear" meant whatever Wierwille had already decided. Perhaps the few "unclear" verses should alert us to the possibility that we don't understand the subject as well as we thought.
NEVER experienced ANYTHING similar to what Galen speaks of.
Corps were always around, and for the most part uptight, trying to get the hang of controlling their people. (oh the stories I have on that)
Biblical Research & Teaching is a phrase, and just from hearing it over & over, some people can get a false sense that IS what is going on...
Similar to when I was younger growing up in the Lutheran Church... the phrase God the Father, GOD THE SON, God the Holy Ghost...
It was repeated so often It was believed, and hearing the opposite phrase was shocking!!! (Almost enough to keep me in that mode with NO scriptural back up)
I agree that TWI had everyone 'researching', or looking at what they were teaching TO MAKE IT their own, NOT to see if it was so! And questions were NOT GOOD… unless you liked to be uncomfortable~
We did find a few discrepancies at different times, and posed a question, but it was never answered & brushed off~ <_<
Gematria was the subject of a teaching at Corps week (I think) once. (can't remember if VP taught it or just intro'd it with exuberance) That's where you give numeric significance to the words used ... then add and divide etc. and say "eureka ... I've found it" LOL
Anyway they used the Greek, so I asked "someone" after about using the Greek, if we were saying the originals were Aramaic. (if the Greek was just a human translation, unless it was a God breathed translation, the numbers wouldn't mean anything) Anyway, this person seemed to agree with me, and just kinda shrugged. As my3cents said ... others seemed aware of the problems but endured it, or covered it, or whatever. I think if the researchers on staff became aware of systemic problems, they should have come forward and be fired if necessary. Not an easy thing to do inside that bubble, but they gave credence to VP by not "outing him".
Fortunately Schoenheidt and some others eventually came forward. The guys that did the work on the 9/11 planetary alignments were pretty confrontational. ( now I wonder if there is significance to the 9/11 Jesus date and that of the Islamic choice of 9/11? )
Anyway, the gematria thing didn't add up, along with many other things. There is gematria for the aramaic too I think ... wonder what Bullinger uses in his numbers book ... I assume he covered gematria ... maybe not.
Gematria was the subject of a teaching at Corps week (I think) once. (can't remember if VP taught it or just intro'd it with exuberance) That's where you give numeric significance to the words used ... then add and divide etc. and say "eureka ... I've found it" LOL
Sounds like numerology, to me. :blink:
Yes, but Wierwille claimed to be different, PFAL was promoted as a method to make the bible your own so that you wouldn't have to depend on ministers and professors and priests. That never happened, and those who thought it did, ended up leaving for one reason or another.
We were to "study whether those things were so" - we were just not allowed to say whether those things were NOT so, nor were we allowed to question "whether those things were so" in TWI.
I haven't been to any church where they expect you to just take what the religion teaches simply because the priest or minister says it. :blink: Maybe the RC's with "excathedra", but that's a special case in and of itself within the Catholic religion, so it doesn't cover the whole "doctrine" issue anyway.
Besides that, you can go to most any church and find folks who don't necessarily agree with 100% of the church's doctrine - as long as someone isn't a troublemaker, they are welcome and they still enjoy the fellowship, the teachings and the whole experience....they just don't necessarily agree with the full doctrine.
Of course, that's a tangent and off topic, so I digress....
We were taught rudimentary study skills, yes - and, you bring up good points, Oak, many of those "keys to the word's interpretation" are seriously flawed and are designed to lead people to believe, see and trust what vee pee was telling us - which was what HE wanted us to believe; not what's really there.
Yes, but Wierwille claimed to be different, PFAL was promoted as a method to make the bible your own so that you wouldn't have to depend on ministers and professors and priests. ...
When I had questions, I wrote to hq, and always got an answer.
The answers weren't always what I wanted to hear;.... but I got an answer nevertheless...
I once presented a question to leadership about te disparity between the number and frequency of miracles
described in the New Testament and the current times we live in. I had just completed PFAL and was sure
that the signs and miracles would start coming on a daily basis. After all the green card promised all manner
of wonderful results from taking PFAL. Before I submitted my question I asked around to people to see if
they were healing and getting healed in a miraculous fashion. I quickly learned that many of us new grads
weren't seeing those "signs and miracles" at least comparable to those found in the Bible. I also quickly
learned that those who had been in TWI longer were much more inclined to call simple things "miracles".
If your sore throat went away in a couple of days that was a miracle. If you found a parking spot at the
Mall near the entrance then that was a mircale and so on. So these people would tell you that their day
was full of miracles but I wasn't buying it. Their standards for what constitutes a miracle were quite low.
So I submitted my question and at the same time told the Branch person what I had done. He didn't like it saying that it wasn't even a good question especially since I had just graduated PFAL and didn't know anything about applying the principles of God's word to get the true abundance. It sounded like a dodge then and it definitely does now. He told me that if I wanted to see
miracles that I would have to learn about prosperity via the concept of abundant sharing - that God couldn't
help me until I gave God his due on a financial basis. Man, I was floored. I had just completed PFAL and they
are telling me that I have to give money to get health , miracles, God's respect ? So my experience with "Getting answers"
seemed to be directly related to first giving money to TWI before I could expect anything from God. Some ministry huh ?
I got some of the same answers myself and I tried that concept, and when I proved it to myself that it didn't work (tithing), as taught by Dr. Wierwille, I no longer applied it in my life.
That part of his teaching was error, to me.
But I have no complaints about it now, because I tried it and eliminated the concept when it didn't work for me.
I got some of the same answers myself and I tried that concept, and when I proved it to myself that it didn't work (tithing), as taught by Dr. Wierwille, I no longer applied it in my life.
That part of his teaching was error, to me.
But I have no complaints about it now, because I tried it and eliminated the concept when it didn't work for me.
But --- I DON'T KNOW FOR A FACT that you did that -- so I'm suspicious.
Recommended Posts
Galen
Perhaps our experiences differed greatly.
Being mostly in twig areas with no WC, in most areas that Bonnie and I were in, we were able to encourage folks to read their own Bibles. We kept a glass jar in public view and when questions arose about doctrine, or anything that we really did not feel that we could comfortably discuss in biblical detail. We wrote the question out on a slip of paper and put it in the jar. Whatever topic we were working on, as soon as we were done, someone would pick another slip of paper out from the jar.
The first few times, we walk through doing a word-study on a simple word used ten times.
Then:
"Lets all do word-studies on 'X' and anyone who finds something interesting can share it next week."
or
"these are all the uses of 'X', if you take the first twenty, I will take the second twenty, and on until everyone is included and all verses are looked at. Everyone just remember to read the context and look for clues in the context that describe the meaning of the word. then next week, we will take turns and review what we have found, to compile it into a single definition of this word, or into categories of definitions."
We once did a very lengthy and involved study on all aspects of marriage and family life. We looked up every word translated father, mother, brother, sister, husband, wive, concubine, kin, etc. It took our twig months. I went out to sea with all the notes, and spent months underwater trying to compile it into a single thesis paper.
In our last fellowship where we ran PFAL, our last one was on 'dishonesty'. It kind of broke up the fellowship. One couple insisted that it was a silly word to look at. "Everyone knows what dishonest is". As it turns out, did you know that the Author of the Bible only uses the terms for 'dishonest' in the context of business dealings? Never in personal dealings, and never when someone 'mis-represented' through leaving out information. Only when talking about business. Hmm.
:)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
Well, Galen, I think we've all pretty much come to the conclusion that you and OM have vastly different experiences with TWI than the other 99.999% of us.
Oak, my ex used to pride himself on "studying" the Bible. Funny thing is, studying the Bible as taught in TWI really just mean re-reading the scriptures that they had already read to us, looking up those in the parentheses that were just referred to and writing them in our syllabus.
We'd look up the word in the concordance and see that it said what they said it said.
We'd "maybe" look up a few other verses using that same word in the same manner for a teaching to show how spiritually adept we were at studying.
We'd use our "scripture reference" to see where those verses were used in other TWIt publications.
In short - we became very adept at re-packaging what we were taught and teaching it as if it was something new we had come up with. I didn't really study or look very deeply into any scriptures until you and I started corresponding and you helped me with the "epiluo" study, shared with me your work on "the face of the deep" and many other things.
I was really "working the word" when Chris Jordan came out with her paper on debt, but I had learned those things from YOU and others here on the board - not from TWI.
I was afraid to touch the PFAL thread JBarrax has so kindly preserved and Geek's Top 10 and Raf's awesome threads as well. They were over my head and just too much for me to comprehend.....pity, because if TWI was a true research ministry, I should have been prepared and excited to show them what true research was and how it backed what we were taught. As it is, they were the ones with the true research skills and the results of such research was pretty damaging to TWI.
Here's an excerpt from the WayRag Article thread and the "new" WC in-residence training class they have:
****
In the fall the students focused on a series of study times called “Ministry Resources Studies” TWI provides resources such as oral teachings and written publications that contain Biblical research and teaching. This research and teaching of God’s word helps people to understand and apply it. During these study times, the in-res WC learn to adeptly utilize these resources to help themselves and others.
The students were presented with hypothetical but common situations where they may be called to serve. In searching out word-based solutions, they learn to use the word taught in current STS services and Rag articles, on TWIs website and in our ministry books, publications and oral teachings.
One student in the final year of training shares, “The ministry resources study times are not only inspiring to me to dig deeper into the truths we have available right at our fingertips, but they’re also building my confidence in becoming a minister. I have more boldness now in knowing where to go to help people in various life situations. What is even more exciting is that I am building such a healthy word-based habit in my life, and I can help others build it in theirs.”
Study hall is also a focused time in the Bible that helps the students build strong study habits. One recent grad writes, “Working in the publications dept at hq allows me to use many of the things I learned in study hall. Each day I believe to help make each publication the best before it goes to print. It’s an exciting adventure, and I work with loving and encouraging people – a team of WC and AC grads. I am thankful for the training that showed me how to build hours of disciplined study into my life in that wonderful Household Commons Library….”
***
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
I agree, it was about believing the Word of God that Dr. Wierwille was teaching.
All those who chose not to believe, left.
This concept is not different from many religions who stick with their own ideology and interpretations and those who disagree or cannot accept those ideologies, leave.
The church of my youth is like that, among others.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheEvan
Putting "The Way" and "research" in the same sentence? Isn't that like oxymoron squared?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
frank123lol
Never had a problem with studying the bible under wierwille,with loy under the present spewth was a
different flavor,He boxed everything saying we had to be "likeminded" a excuse to control what everybody
said and thought,It was boring...alarm bells went off..The worst was giving a summary on a teaching of his
and giving examples practically applying same crap.
Remember the saying biblical research does not begin with ansers it looks for them?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
templelady
I remember that in my twig when we were called upon to teach a lesson we were allowed to do as much research as we liked. But I was in before the emphasis was placed on using syllabi's and only TWI materials
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
In the mid to late nineties our teachings were scheduled--one night was for Way mag(current), one for Wap class, whichever segment we were on, and one form the SST. Teaching were supposed to be 10min long, and we were to hit the high points of the Way material. It was all review.
I did a teaching one night where I took off on something, and taught, not a review. After that I had to clear all my teachings with the HFC prior to the Fellowship!
Oh--the teaching I did really blessed alot of people in the fellowship that night. One guy, who had been in our twig way out in a small town was all nostalgic--'remember when we had twig at your little house?'
Yeah, back when it was friendly and kind and fun...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
we used to do it a long, long time ago like Galen describes in his post... glad I wasn't around for the wonder years...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
diazbro
The "word of god" that "Dr Wierwille was teaching" was in most cases stolen from someone
else. And in those cases it was just the works of other men.
This explains a lot such as why you were/are so powerfully attracted to self-proclaimed spiritual
leaders. Basically you are confessing that even before your time with TWI that you were very
accustomed to participating in absolute, demanding organizations that left no gray areas.
Edited by diazbroLink to comment
Share on other sites
My3Cents
I guess it depends on what your definition of biblical research is.
I knew several people in the "research department" - this was back when Wierwille was still alive. We discussed several situations where it was obvious to them that the biblical texts did not support Weirwille's teachings, but that he was not open to even hearing about it. Others in the past had been publically denounced and kicked out for stuff like that.
One of these people told me they were "researching" under the assumption that what VPW taught was right even if there were no texts to prove it, but that there must have been a text that said that (or a way of understanding it to mean thus) back in "the original" because VPW had such spiritual insight he must have been right.
One man I know of got a degree at a real university, and still worked at the way. He would not, however, put his name to any way articles for fear of being discredited by the academic community.
You can call that biblical research if you want, I don't think there's a law against it.
People will tell you some of the work the way did with the Aramaic interlinear and other things were cutting edge and respected outside the way. I don't doubt that, but that work was pretty technical - basically just spending the time and money to do a compilation of stuff. It wasn't about uncovering new insight.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RumRunner
Having been in the research community ( no not biblical - university earth science ) you sometimes come up with the following final report; "The results were inconclusive." I never heard VPW or LCM say that. They always had some glib comment about the Apaches, or gays, or Jews, but NEVER was it inconclusive - unless of course we were told that we just hadn't found the text yet.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
I think there is a HUGE difference between bible study and biblical research.
Seems in TWI, we were taught rudimentary study skills. And even some of those are/were questionable.......
If anybody did any "real research" they usually got bounced out on their behind sooner or later.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
For example: if you base your research on a definition of the Greek word pros that is incorrect, it will affect your conclusions.
What about even "common sense" keys like "first usage" determining the meaning? Is that necessarily true? Or the TWI habit of breaking down Greek and Hebrew words into their component parts and assigning the meaning based on the definition of the root without regard to the word's evolution?
How about the key that the few "unclear" verses should be understood in light of the many "clear" verses? Often "clear" meant whatever Wierwille had already decided. Perhaps the few "unclear" verses should alert us to the possibility that we don't understand the subject as well as we thought.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
SafariVista
NEVER experienced ANYTHING similar to what Galen speaks of.
Corps were always around, and for the most part uptight, trying to get the hang of controlling their people. (oh the stories I have on that)
Biblical Research & Teaching is a phrase, and just from hearing it over & over, some people can get a false sense that IS what is going on...
Similar to when I was younger growing up in the Lutheran Church... the phrase God the Father, GOD THE SON, God the Holy Ghost...
It was repeated so often It was believed, and hearing the opposite phrase was shocking!!! (Almost enough to keep me in that mode with NO scriptural back up)
I agree that TWI had everyone 'researching', or looking at what they were teaching TO MAKE IT their own, NOT to see if it was so! And questions were NOT GOOD… unless you liked to be uncomfortable~
We did find a few discrepancies at different times, and posed a question, but it was never answered & brushed off~ <_<
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rhino
Gematria was the subject of a teaching at Corps week (I think) once. (can't remember if VP taught it or just intro'd it with exuberance) That's where you give numeric significance to the words used ... then add and divide etc. and say "eureka ... I've found it" LOL
Anyway they used the Greek, so I asked "someone" after about using the Greek, if we were saying the originals were Aramaic. (if the Greek was just a human translation, unless it was a God breathed translation, the numbers wouldn't mean anything) Anyway, this person seemed to agree with me, and just kinda shrugged. As my3cents said ... others seemed aware of the problems but endured it, or covered it, or whatever. I think if the researchers on staff became aware of systemic problems, they should have come forward and be fired if necessary. Not an easy thing to do inside that bubble, but they gave credence to VP by not "outing him".
Fortunately Schoenheidt and some others eventually came forward. The guys that did the work on the 9/11 planetary alignments were pretty confrontational. (
now I wonder if there is significance to the 9/11 Jesus date and that of the Islamic choice of 9/11? )
Anyway, the gematria thing didn't add up, along with many other things. There is gematria for the aramaic too I think ... wonder what Bullinger uses in his numbers book ... I assume he covered gematria ... maybe not.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
We were to "study whether those things were so" - we were just not allowed to say whether those things were NOT so, nor were we allowed to question "whether those things were so" in TWI.
I haven't been to any church where they expect you to just take what the religion teaches simply because the priest or minister says it. :blink: Maybe the RC's with "excathedra", but that's a special case in and of itself within the Catholic religion, so it doesn't cover the whole "doctrine" issue anyway.
Besides that, you can go to most any church and find folks who don't necessarily agree with 100% of the church's doctrine - as long as someone isn't a troublemaker, they are welcome and they still enjoy the fellowship, the teachings and the whole experience....they just don't necessarily agree with the full doctrine.
Of course, that's a tangent and off topic, so I digress....
We were taught rudimentary study skills, yes - and, you bring up good points, Oak, many of those "keys to the word's interpretation" are seriously flawed and are designed to lead people to believe, see and trust what vee pee was telling us - which was what HE wanted us to believe; not what's really there.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
That is true, at least for me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
When I had questions, I wrote to hq, and always got an answer.
The answers weren't always what I wanted to hear;.... but I got an answer nevertheless...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
diazbro
I once presented a question to leadership about te disparity between the number and frequency of miracles
described in the New Testament and the current times we live in. I had just completed PFAL and was sure
that the signs and miracles would start coming on a daily basis. After all the green card promised all manner
of wonderful results from taking PFAL. Before I submitted my question I asked around to people to see if
they were healing and getting healed in a miraculous fashion. I quickly learned that many of us new grads
weren't seeing those "signs and miracles" at least comparable to those found in the Bible. I also quickly
learned that those who had been in TWI longer were much more inclined to call simple things "miracles".
If your sore throat went away in a couple of days that was a miracle. If you found a parking spot at the
Mall near the entrance then that was a mircale and so on. So these people would tell you that their day
was full of miracles but I wasn't buying it. Their standards for what constitutes a miracle were quite low.
So I submitted my question and at the same time told the Branch person what I had done. He didn't like it saying that it wasn't even a good question especially since I had just graduated PFAL and didn't know anything about applying the principles of God's word to get the true abundance. It sounded like a dodge then and it definitely does now. He told me that if I wanted to see
miracles that I would have to learn about prosperity via the concept of abundant sharing - that God couldn't
help me until I gave God his due on a financial basis. Man, I was floored. I had just completed PFAL and they
are telling me that I have to give money to get health , miracles, God's respect ? So my experience with "Getting answers"
seemed to be directly related to first giving money to TWI before I could expect anything from God. Some ministry huh ?
Edited by diazbroLink to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
I got some of the same answers myself and I tried that concept, and when I proved it to myself that it didn't work (tithing), as taught by Dr. Wierwille, I no longer applied it in my life.
That part of his teaching was error, to me.
But I have no complaints about it now, because I tried it and eliminated the concept when it didn't work for me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
But --- I DON'T KNOW FOR A FACT that you did that -- so I'm suspicious.
All I have is your say-so!
Edited by dmillerLink to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
No problem, I am not offended... :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.