lcm's only real education came as an athlete in college, and the rest of his life was spent in twi. When he got the big chair, he put his athletic emphasis on it.
While it is true LCM played football in college, played tight end and even lettered three years, he also received his Bachelor of Arts degree in 1971 while attending the University of Kansas. While I do agree athletics played a very important role in LCM's life, I do not agree however that athletics was LCM's only "real education" as one poster here had put it earlier.
Frankly speaking, I've come to expect much more from that particular poster, especially when I see them purposely go out of their way and make it a point and constantly pride themselves on displaying to others how they are the only one who have all their "facts" straight about VPW, LCM, TWI, etc., etc, etc. - especially whenever somebody disagrees with them. That's why I don't believe for one micro-second that fact about LCM's career was something completely unknown to that poster at all. MY GOD - HOW could it be? Well, it might not be evident to many, but what is evident to me is all they wanted was their "jaded-mindset" that athletics was LCM's only real education to dominate the "spotlight" here while letting the fact LCM received a bachelor of arts degree in 1971 slide by and remain hidden in the dark.
Why did I bother to bring that particular fact up, especially when I know that fact is something many here would not consider highly significant? Because that fact is but only one example out of hundreds of posts you will read from that poster. But I can't fault them very far, and they should not take it personally when I realize that persons mindset is not too very different from the other's who also post here. As it is often said, birds of a feather flock together. But what saddens me particularly is coming to realize just how many of my peers are rapidly becoming a sample (albeit a small one) of what has gone wrong with our American justice system today. It is nothing more than a cliche' to say one is: "Innocent until proven guilty", when the reality is one is: "Guilty until proven innocent." Proving one's innocence is something that will never, ever happen, especially when facts are pushed aside and kept in the dark, while others are purposely and even intentionly spotlighted to overshadow others, regardless of how insignificant they may seem to you. History has already borne out and has proven many times that even one insignificant fact can make all the difference regarding someone's guilt or innocence.
WTH... I hardly think the facts concerning LCM would tip the scales of justice in his direction... regardless of whether someone chose to "focus" (your word) on his athletic career in college...
The LCM who "led" TWI was also a lot different than the LCM that led FCA meetings at KU... but YOU didn't touch on that did you?
With all the fanciful allegations of rape and how loosely it seems to be used here, it is difficult for me just to take someone's word for it. You are free to PM me if you want to fill me in, and all information will be kept confidential.
People can state what they will, but a rape needs to be proven in a court of law with all sides testifying under oath and subject to cross examination.
Until then, I believe the proper term to use especially on the net is "alleged rape" or "alleged rapist".
Oldies,
No need to provide you any information by PM. If I hold something in confidence, I hold it in confidence. If either of the alleged victims that I'm aware of chooses to disclose to somebody else, that's their business. It's not for me to do.
I will state this, though: the description given to me was not a simple statement, "I was raped by LCM." I heard details that described how and the circumstances which they were raped. In both cases, it was a forceful attack, vice a potential misinterpretation of intent. Having said that, my original statement was,
I personally know two women
who state
they were raped by LCM.
Please to note that I didn't say, I know two women who were raped by..., I reported that I heard statements to that effect by two women. Therefore it is an adequately accurate statement of fact, not an conclusion of the veracity of those statements.
If one or both happen to read this for some reason and choose to publically disclose or to disclose to you in private, that's up to them.
He told her that he wanted her first sexual experience to be with a man who truly loved her and only wanted the best for her, so that she would always enjoy sex and not fear or dislike it.
wg, ohmygod i didn't know wierwille had foster children
Well, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Sigmund Freud never came back! And personally, I was intrigued with the thread topic concerning Craig's state of being at the moment, and not whether he committed "this or that" or not.....
Well, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Sigmund Freud never came back! And personally, I was intrigued with the thread topic concerning Craig's state of being at the moment, and not whether he committed "this or that" or not.....
While it is true LCM played football in college, played tight end and even lettered three years, he also received his Bachelor of Arts degree in 1971 while attending the University of Kansas. While I do agree athletics played a very important role in LCM's life, I do not agree however that athletics was LCM's only "real education" as one poster here had put it earlier.
[i don't have a copy of his transcripts from the college.
We know he supposedly earned his Bachelor's Degree in Psychology at an accredited
institution. We do not know if the athletes got a "free ride" on this as sometimes
happens at some schools.
We DO know, however, that someone who completes the B.A. in Psychology
is supposed to have a basic understanding of terms and concepts in Psychology.
(Otherwise, what did you do in 24 credit-hours including the labs?)
lcm has gone on record having seen corps personnel "lose it" in his presence.
His descriptions of what happened fall far short of what you'd expect if he
completed a MINOR in Psychology, let alone a MAJOR.
"Gone off her rocker."
"All of a sudden went 'gooney-bird.' He started to babble and not make sense."
Supposedly lcm worked DIRECTLY with that guy during the episode, and
he was unable to come up with a clearer description beyond that, and that
he was "incoherent."
Neither description tells us anything USEFUL about either incident.
lcm-knowing how potentially serious such problems are- insisted on NOTHING
in either case, and NEITHER person received any medical care nor
medical evaluation. Mind you-at the time, lcm was IN CHARGE of
the corps, and supposedly learned SOMETHING about Psychology.
That he was unable to give any description beyond a crude one,
and unable to recognize a need for immediate medical attention
(mind you-he never put any time into finding the CAUSE of either)
argues against lcm actually retaining any useful information in
the field of Psychology. Since this was his major, lcm received
LESS education in any other fields.
Therefore,
lcm's only REAL education was riding the bench in college football.
As we can clearly see.
And now for the personal attack...]
Frankly speaking, I've come to expect much more from that particular poster, especially when I see them purposely go out of their way and make it a point and constantly pride themselves on displaying to others how they are the only one who have all their "facts" straight about VPW, LCM, TWI, etc., etc, etc. - especially whenever somebody disagrees with them.
[And I did exactly that here.
I didn't bother dragging up the specifics before because
A) they're common knowledge here
B) I referred him to a thread which broke this down in detail]
That's why I don't believe for one micro-second that fact about LCM's career was something completely unknown to that poster at all.
[but-as we saw-whatever lcm sat thru in class was not RETAINED by him.
And college classes are not a "career".]
Well, it might not be evident to many, but what is evident to me is all they wanted was their "jaded-mindset" that athletics was LCM's only real education to dominate the "spotlight" here while letting the fact LCM received a bachelor of arts degree in 1971 slide by and remain hidden in the dark.
[What's evident to most of us is that WTH tried once again to do some
posturing and pretend he knew what he was talking about.
Thank you for playing, WTH.
Your parting gifts are waiting for you in the lobby.]
Not that it really matters but... he (LCM) probably didn't use the clinical terms given the TWI penchant for avoiding psychology/psychiatry, etc... much easier to blame debbil spurts... so I don't know whether or not that could be an example of whether he did his coursework or not... excelled or didn't... heck, it could just be that he'd pretty much forgotten the terms because of "putting off the old man"... anyway, I don't think it's worth arguing over... so what the heck am I typing this for? (as always JMO)
I don't know whether or not that could be an example of whether he did his coursework or not... excelled or didn't...
My sentiments exactly regarding the incident/example WW has cited, especially when most of what's been reported is nothing but hearsay. It only establishes the fact one has a jaded-mindset and they are not open to any further explanations regarding a situation. Don't get me wrong, I certainly am not making any apologies for LCM as to what may/may not have occurred, but since when did LCM decide to join TWI for the purpose of practicing Psychology? That's what I'd like to know.
In all actuallity, It is no surprised Craig is a broken man. Most of us were broken by the time we left. However unpopular, I expect he will recover just as we did. After all, his coach did teach him well.
From my knowledge of Craig, and from all the accounts that you give of him, I agree with the fact that he is dealing with incrediable sadness, to say the least.
I always viewed Craig in the role of the "patsy" that should have and could have done better and thought better about any choices that he made.
Let us still not forget, however...the times that we were ALL intrenched and submerged into Way thinking, and although our sins may not have been as public and even as hidious, we still all had them, and could figure out at the time how to justify having them.
How we all feel about Craig Martindale will be different and we are all entitled to that...however every single time I remember Craig around Wierwille, he was just as much a pile of brain mush just like the rest of us. I also saw a man that at other instances and other times was capable of Godly sorrow or human groveling. I dont defend one thing that he did wrong, its just that I have seen him, when he did do things wrong, admit to it and appear to have some form of godly sorrow attached to it.
Therefore, I can think that their is truth to some of what Freud is saying here, however I agree with Coolwaters.....lets hear some specifics. I mean, if you are going to come in here and post on this site and take this issue as far as you have, you have people in here that want to know more, and that need their own feelings validated.
24 hours ago I didn't know this site existed nor was I aware that so many people had been deeply affected by a person who I met a few years ago. Here is my story...
A few years back....In a casual social situation I met a man named Craig Martindale. It was not a religious or work situation, just a casual social event attended by lots of other people. He asked me what I did for a living, when I told him, it became obvious that I had struck a nerve. It is important that confidentiality be maintained, so I will be vague, but some of my work centers around the various aspects of religious belief and the dynamics of cults and religious leaders. Craig was very interested in the topic and ended up in a long extended conversation on the issue. He mentioned that he had been active in a ministry and that he was a former pastor.
He was vague about his past and it was clear to me that something significant had occured in his life.
Over the next few years I had the opportunity to have several discussions with him regarding faith, reason, family, love and work. We avoided any serious discussion of his past ministry because it seemed to ellicit incredible sadness.
Frankly, my impression of this person was of a sad, struggling individual. He did tell me personal details of his life over the past several years, but I am not comfortable sharing this. I always came away with a feeling of " ...I wish I could do something for that guy". I discussed him with my wife several times over the years and in meeting him she was struck by a sort of blandness. Mutual friends made the same type of comments.
I saw him about a month or so ago...and I told my wife as we were leaving " I feel bad for Craig...he just seems to be dealing with so much".
Fast forward to last night....I am googling some completely unrelated, irrelevant terms,,,and deep in the google search...I glance at a link...something about cult leader abusing women...blah blah....since this is related to my interest...I follow the link. I then see that this leader is supposed to be in the Toledo area...and dig deeper....then I see see the name L. Craig Martindale...HUH?????
I then find a photo.........omg.....it is him. I then find this site and others, the abuse of power, the draconian rules involving pregnancy and sexuality, the weird bible teachings, the whole "king" thing, and the sexual misconduct material.
I read messages that people actually made major life decisions based on Craig's word. That he live on multi-million dollar property...the weird film.........children wanting to pray to him...
I have been in a state of disbelief for the past 24 hrs. There is such a discrepancy between the person I have come to know...and the monster described by The Way survivors.
Now...I do not doubt for a second all of your experiences. I can tell you, and perhaps this will bring some closure, that he is, too me, a struggling individual who seems to be trying to rebuild his life. I can tell you that if he is sitting on significant wealth...he is hiding it very very well. I see no signs of affluence or power, in any aspects that I can see.
I read accounts that have him working at Bally's, I honestly don't know if that is still the case, but I can tell you he is working in a very modest, even meager position in the Toledo area. This is a job that I have not seen referenced on the net.
He always seemed to be "underemployed" to me...a sense of having fallen from great heights. After finding out what I have in the past 24 hours...I now understand.
Not sure if I will encounter Craig again. I can...but frankly my wife and I are spooked by what we have read here.
Well...that's my story. I'll respond to any inquiries of a general nature....I just don't feel it would be right to air any recent personal issues on the net.
Peace.........
Sorry this got off on the whole rape thing, I wanted to remark to this post.
I believe you.
I maybe wrong, but I can see how someone who works with Craig in his new life might stumble across this. Like someone watching America's most wanted may see a co-worker and find it hard to believe they committed a crime.
I can see how that would happen, I can believe Craig is sad, if I hurt hundreds of people (be they willing ladder climbing women -- or the other group of just girls looking for Jesus who got deceived, they were all in some kind of deception. Whether they deceived thenselves to be on a fast track, or were decieved by him looking for Jesus.) I feel badly when I think of someone I bullied in highschool, so I can believe it.
I think he should write an I am sorry post, but whatever....
I do know some posters, who cannot imagine rape happened, did have willing -- even eager family members --so their viewpoint can be skewed. Not going in the direction of anyone. It just helps in my understanding where people are comming from.
Lots of people had lots of different experiences.
But Freud, I say all that to say this:
I can see what you are saying really happening. And until it comes out otherwise I believe you.
And if Craig repents, that is between he and God. And if God put you in his path to reach him -- then so be it.
I can see God reaching out to the lost, or the savage sinner. If Craig dropped to his knees and came clean with his God, that would be powerful and wonderful.
I may still not LIKE him, nor trust him, but I would be glad he REALLY found God this time.
But do understand, he did wreck lives. But if God called you to reach out to him -- then reach. I'd confront him with what you have discovered, and tell him he really needs to consider a huge apology letter.
How that letter is received is up to each reader as many had their hearts torn and their spirits broken by his rantings. IMO, the Craig that I knew was a horrid man. But God is a BIG GOD.
But I tell you this, until he publicly admits he was deceived and the whole sex thing, using people, its okay in the eyes of God to bless a (married) man of god sexually -- well he looks a little David Koresh to me and will remain so.
Thank you for posting here on Grease Spot Cafe. I have only read your initial post here and no other posts after yours. I simply do not have the time to read the rest as I have a full time business while also currently taking two 3 unit college classes in the field of Real Estate. Sorry for not reading the other posts here.
I just want to say that the reports about Craig's evil past are well documented by multiple people. However, it is also possible that Craig could now be experiencing a change of heart. When you take someone like Craig out of a situation where he was literally worshiped and had unlimited unchecked religious power and place him with the common people he really has no other choice, but to grow up. The whole system in the Way Denomination was that of a hierarchy of religious rule and it utterly corrupted the people at the top. When you take away that system and specifically remove people like Craig from being pandered to as the head of religious rulership, Craig could have time to heal and get right with God. I never knew Craig and perhaps only talked to him once in my time with the Way denomination. However, I did write him years ago and told him that he should resign from his leadership position if he wanted to get right with God and to rid himself of his bad fruit of pride and ego. Certainly he has needed to grow in meekness and humility and getting stripped of all religious authority and power was the best thing possible for Craig Martindale.
Thanks again for posting Frued. God's blessings and peace to you.
Throughout my time here at GSC and previously, at Waydale...I have observed that most of the posts regarding Martindale have been in the context of his past deeds...
...Whatever he may or may not be going through at this time, is mere speculation. Has he changed? Is he repentant?...Don't know. He could always post here if he wanted to.
To be perfectly honest, I really don't CARE...when he was defrocked and run off of twi headquarters, the goals of certain people were met. A dangerous lunatic was muzzled. Now that he is out of the picture at twi, he's only a curiosity...wondering about what he's doing now is like driving past a car wreck slowly...just to see what happened. I am more concerned to see what happens to all those people that he hurt...Until Martindale decides to step forward and sincerly apologize, I can only assume that he feels no remorse.
I think Ive looked at all the posts concerning this subject but not sure if I missed this one...
I stumbled across this information and I dont think I saw it mentioned here...
"The Way International's Property In The Toledo, Ohio Area
An interesting discovery was made by one of our magazine's researchers. They found a
property owned by TWI in a suburb of Toledo. Toledo is where L. Craig Martindale
the ex-President of TWI has been rumored to be living and working. Is it a coincidence that TWI owns a residential dwelling in this City of all places?
Whether or not TWI's ex-president lives there is not the main issue. If TWI's Ohio
corporate office is not in this house, why does TWI own the house? And how many other
undisclosed properties does TWI own that their followers don't know about? "
Here is the link with the copy of the property listing. Maybe our friends Freud and Jung can verify if this is where Craig lives in Toledo.
Actually, after a close look of the document posted, they whited out the actual address. Im sure somebody who is saavy in the real estate business can find out through public records the location since there is a date of purchase and enough information on the house.
I guess Donna is still taking care of her ex.
Now, mind me...this information is from 1996 (date of purchase), not sure if they still own this property.
publicdata.com charges for searches. Im sure that a search can be done through the Lincoln County government site. I remember when I was trying to purchase our home here in CO, I was able to access any public information on properties through their database located on their government site.
If anyone has the saavy to do this, im sure you can find it by listing The Way International as the owner...just a thought.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
15
14
16
9
Popular Days
Apr 18
54
Apr 17
46
Apr 16
31
Jan 22
13
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 15 posts
oldiesman 14 posts
Tom Strange 16 posts
Nottawayfer 9 posts
Popular Days
Apr 18 2006
54 posts
Apr 17 2006
46 posts
Apr 16 2006
31 posts
Jan 22 2007
13 posts
Posted Images
What The Hey
While it is true LCM played football in college, played tight end and even lettered three years, he also received his Bachelor of Arts degree in 1971 while attending the University of Kansas. While I do agree athletics played a very important role in LCM's life, I do not agree however that athletics was LCM's only "real education" as one poster here had put it earlier.
Frankly speaking, I've come to expect much more from that particular poster, especially when I see them purposely go out of their way and make it a point and constantly pride themselves on displaying to others how they are the only one who have all their "facts" straight about VPW, LCM, TWI, etc., etc, etc. - especially whenever somebody disagrees with them. That's why I don't believe for one micro-second that fact about LCM's career was something completely unknown to that poster at all. MY GOD - HOW could it be? Well, it might not be evident to many, but what is evident to me is all they wanted was their "jaded-mindset" that athletics was LCM's only real education to dominate the "spotlight" here while letting the fact LCM received a bachelor of arts degree in 1971 slide by and remain hidden in the dark.
Why did I bother to bring that particular fact up, especially when I know that fact is something many here would not consider highly significant? Because that fact is but only one example out of hundreds of posts you will read from that poster. But I can't fault them very far, and they should not take it personally when I realize that persons mindset is not too very different from the other's who also post here. As it is often said, birds of a feather flock together. But what saddens me particularly is coming to realize just how many of my peers are rapidly becoming a sample (albeit a small one) of what has gone wrong with our American justice system today. It is nothing more than a cliche' to say one is: "Innocent until proven guilty", when the reality is one is: "Guilty until proven innocent." Proving one's innocence is something that will never, ever happen, especially when facts are pushed aside and kept in the dark, while others are purposely and even intentionly spotlighted to overshadow others, regardless of how insignificant they may seem to you. History has already borne out and has proven many times that even one insignificant fact can make all the difference regarding someone's guilt or innocence.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
WTH... I hardly think the facts concerning LCM would tip the scales of justice in his direction... regardless of whether someone chose to "focus" (your word) on his athletic career in college...
The LCM who "led" TWI was also a lot different than the LCM that led FCA meetings at KU... but YOU didn't touch on that did you?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
markomalley
Oldies,
No need to provide you any information by PM. If I hold something in confidence, I hold it in confidence. If either of the alleged victims that I'm aware of chooses to disclose to somebody else, that's their business. It's not for me to do.
I will state this, though: the description given to me was not a simple statement, "I was raped by LCM." I heard details that described how and the circumstances which they were raped. In both cases, it was a forceful attack, vice a potential misinterpretation of intent. Having said that, my original statement was,
Please to note that I didn't say, I know two women who were raped by..., I reported that I heard statements to that effect by two women. Therefore it is an adequately accurate statement of fact, not an conclusion of the veracity of those statements.
If one or both happen to read this for some reason and choose to publically disclose or to disclose to you in private, that's up to them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
interesting post housie :wub:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
Well, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Sigmund Freud never came back! And personally, I was intrigued with the thread topic concerning Craig's state of being at the moment, and not whether he committed "this or that" or not.....
Hey Siggy! Have a great day or eve!
Edited by Jonny LingoLink to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
Maybe we're his "ant colony" Jonny...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
[i don't have a copy of his transcripts from the college.
We know he supposedly earned his Bachelor's Degree in Psychology at an accredited
institution. We do not know if the athletes got a "free ride" on this as sometimes
happens at some schools.
We DO know, however, that someone who completes the B.A. in Psychology
is supposed to have a basic understanding of terms and concepts in Psychology.
(Otherwise, what did you do in 24 credit-hours including the labs?)
lcm has gone on record having seen corps personnel "lose it" in his presence.
His descriptions of what happened fall far short of what you'd expect if he
completed a MINOR in Psychology, let alone a MAJOR.
"Gone off her rocker."
"All of a sudden went 'gooney-bird.' He started to babble and not make sense."
Supposedly lcm worked DIRECTLY with that guy during the episode, and
he was unable to come up with a clearer description beyond that, and that
he was "incoherent."
Neither description tells us anything USEFUL about either incident.
lcm-knowing how potentially serious such problems are- insisted on NOTHING
in either case, and NEITHER person received any medical care nor
medical evaluation. Mind you-at the time, lcm was IN CHARGE of
the corps, and supposedly learned SOMETHING about Psychology.
That he was unable to give any description beyond a crude one,
and unable to recognize a need for immediate medical attention
(mind you-he never put any time into finding the CAUSE of either)
argues against lcm actually retaining any useful information in
the field of Psychology. Since this was his major, lcm received
LESS education in any other fields.
Therefore,
lcm's only REAL education was riding the bench in college football.
As we can clearly see.
And now for the personal attack...]
[And I did exactly that here.I didn't bother dragging up the specifics before because
A) they're common knowledge here
B) I referred him to a thread which broke this down in detail]
[but-as we saw-whatever lcm sat thru in class was not RETAINED by him.
And college classes are not a "career".]
[What's evident to most of us is that WTH tried once again to do some
posturing and pretend he knew what he was talking about.
Thank you for playing, WTH.
Your parting gifts are waiting for you in the lobby.]
Edited by WordWolfLink to comment
Share on other sites
Watered Garden
Ex Cathedra, I wasn't talking about VPW.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
Not that it really matters but... he (LCM) probably didn't use the clinical terms given the TWI penchant for avoiding psychology/psychiatry, etc... much easier to blame debbil spurts... so I don't know whether or not that could be an example of whether he did his coursework or not... excelled or didn't... heck, it could just be that he'd pretty much forgotten the terms because of "putting off the old man"... anyway, I don't think it's worth arguing over... so what the heck am I typing this for? (as always JMO)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
(I've moved this comment to the newer thread on this topic)
Edited by TheHighWayLink to comment
Share on other sites
ChasUFarley
All y'all should take a look at this thread:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=9824
Is this a derailment?
You bet!
But will it possibly help with what's going on in this thread?
Yuppers!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
What The Hey
My sentiments exactly regarding the incident/example WW has cited, especially when most of what's been reported is nothing but hearsay. It only establishes the fact one has a jaded-mindset and they are not open to any further explanations regarding a situation. Don't get me wrong, I certainly am not making any apologies for LCM as to what may/may not have occurred, but since when did LCM decide to join TWI for the purpose of practicing Psychology? That's what I'd like to know.
Edited by What The HeyLink to comment
Share on other sites
YIdon'tgotochurch
In all actuallity, It is no surprised Craig is a broken man. Most of us were broken by the time we left. However unpopular, I expect he will recover just as we did. After all, his coach did teach him well.
"When you lay an egg; stand back and admire it"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
hi church guy
what do you mean
and welcome
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Hiya YIdon't ---:)
Welcome to GreaseSpot.
(PS -- I fixed a few things in your post, for you! ;)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
prayingfordaylight
From my knowledge of Craig, and from all the accounts that you give of him, I agree with the fact that he is dealing with incrediable sadness, to say the least.
I always viewed Craig in the role of the "patsy" that should have and could have done better and thought better about any choices that he made.
Let us still not forget, however...the times that we were ALL intrenched and submerged into Way thinking, and although our sins may not have been as public and even as hidious, we still all had them, and could figure out at the time how to justify having them.
How we all feel about Craig Martindale will be different and we are all entitled to that...however every single time I remember Craig around Wierwille, he was just as much a pile of brain mush just like the rest of us. I also saw a man that at other instances and other times was capable of Godly sorrow or human groveling. I dont defend one thing that he did wrong, its just that I have seen him, when he did do things wrong, admit to it and appear to have some form of godly sorrow attached to it.
Therefore, I can think that their is truth to some of what Freud is saying here, however I agree with Coolwaters.....lets hear some specifics. I mean, if you are going to come in here and post on this site and take this issue as far as you have, you have people in here that want to know more, and that need their own feelings validated.
Thanks for posting,
prayingfordaylight
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dot Matrix
Sorry this got off on the whole rape thing, I wanted to remark to this post.
I believe you.
I maybe wrong, but I can see how someone who works with Craig in his new life might stumble across this. Like someone watching America's most wanted may see a co-worker and find it hard to believe they committed a crime.
I can see how that would happen, I can believe Craig is sad, if I hurt hundreds of people (be they willing ladder climbing women -- or the other group of just girls looking for Jesus who got deceived, they were all in some kind of deception. Whether they deceived thenselves to be on a fast track, or were decieved by him looking for Jesus.) I feel badly when I think of someone I bullied in highschool, so I can believe it.
I think he should write an I am sorry post, but whatever....
I do know some posters, who cannot imagine rape happened, did have willing -- even eager family members --so their viewpoint can be skewed. Not going in the direction of anyone. It just helps in my understanding where people are comming from.
Lots of people had lots of different experiences.
But Freud, I say all that to say this:
I can see what you are saying really happening. And until it comes out otherwise I believe you.
And if Craig repents, that is between he and God. And if God put you in his path to reach him -- then so be it.
I can see God reaching out to the lost, or the savage sinner. If Craig dropped to his knees and came clean with his God, that would be powerful and wonderful.
I may still not LIKE him, nor trust him, but I would be glad he REALLY found God this time.
But do understand, he did wreck lives. But if God called you to reach out to him -- then reach. I'd confront him with what you have discovered, and tell him he really needs to consider a huge apology letter.
How that letter is received is up to each reader as many had their hearts torn and their spirits broken by his rantings. IMO, the Craig that I knew was a horrid man. But God is a BIG GOD.
But I tell you this, until he publicly admits he was deceived and the whole sex thing, using people, its okay in the eyes of God to bless a (married) man of god sexually -- well he looks a little David Koresh to me and will remain so.
Edited by Dot MatrixLink to comment
Share on other sites
Mark Sanguinetti
Hi Frued:
Thank you for posting here on Grease Spot Cafe. I have only read your initial post here and no other posts after yours. I simply do not have the time to read the rest as I have a full time business while also currently taking two 3 unit college classes in the field of Real Estate. Sorry for not reading the other posts here.
I just want to say that the reports about Craig's evil past are well documented by multiple people. However, it is also possible that Craig could now be experiencing a change of heart. When you take someone like Craig out of a situation where he was literally worshiped and had unlimited unchecked religious power and place him with the common people he really has no other choice, but to grow up. The whole system in the Way Denomination was that of a hierarchy of religious rule and it utterly corrupted the people at the top. When you take away that system and specifically remove people like Craig from being pandered to as the head of religious rulership, Craig could have time to heal and get right with God. I never knew Craig and perhaps only talked to him once in my time with the Way denomination. However, I did write him years ago and told him that he should resign from his leadership position if he wanted to get right with God and to rid himself of his bad fruit of pride and ego. Certainly he has needed to grow in meekness and humility and getting stripped of all religious authority and power was the best thing possible for Craig Martindale.
Thanks again for posting Frued. God's blessings and peace to you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
Throughout my time here at GSC and previously, at Waydale...I have observed that most of the posts regarding Martindale have been in the context of his past deeds...
...Whatever he may or may not be going through at this time, is mere speculation. Has he changed? Is he repentant?...Don't know. He could always post here if he wanted to.
To be perfectly honest, I really don't CARE...when he was defrocked and run off of twi headquarters, the goals of certain people were met. A dangerous lunatic was muzzled. Now that he is out of the picture at twi, he's only a curiosity...wondering about what he's doing now is like driving past a car wreck slowly...just to see what happened. I am more concerned to see what happens to all those people that he hurt...Until Martindale decides to step forward and sincerly apologize, I can only assume that he feels no remorse.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ex_16th_MB
I think Ive looked at all the posts concerning this subject but not sure if I missed this one...
I stumbled across this information and I dont think I saw it mentioned here...
"The Way International's Property In The Toledo, Ohio Area
An interesting discovery was made by one of our magazine's researchers. They found a
property owned by TWI in a suburb of Toledo. Toledo is where L. Craig Martindale
the ex-President of TWI has been rumored to be living and working. Is it a coincidence that TWI owns a residential dwelling in this City of all places?
Whether or not TWI's ex-president lives there is not the main issue. If TWI's Ohio
corporate office is not in this house, why does TWI own the house? And how many other
undisclosed properties does TWI own that their followers don't know about? "
Here is the link with the copy of the property listing. Maybe our friends Freud and Jung can verify if this is where Craig lives in Toledo.
http://www.excultworld.com/Misc_Documents/...ea_Property.htm
Sorry if this is a duplicate, I didnt seem to see any discussion on this.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sudo
Ex-16th.
Ooooh... that is interesting!!! Maybe someone living in Toledo would be curious enough to just park outside on the street and see who lives there.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ex_16th_MB
Actually, after a close look of the document posted, they whited out the actual address. Im sure somebody who is saavy in the real estate business can find out through public records the location since there is a date of purchase and enough information on the house.
I guess Donna is still taking care of her ex.
Now, mind me...this information is from 1996 (date of purchase), not sure if they still own this property.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
you can go on publicdata.com and find out from the property tax records...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ex_16th_MB
publicdata.com charges for searches. Im sure that a search can be done through the Lincoln County government site. I remember when I was trying to purchase our home here in CO, I was able to access any public information on properties through their database located on their government site.
If anyone has the saavy to do this, im sure you can find it by listing The Way International as the owner...just a thought.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.