My Conversations With Craig 2004-2006

[Freud]

Folks,

24 hours ago I didn't know this site existed nor was I aware that so many people had been deeply affected by a person who I met a few years ago. Here is my story...

A few years back....In a casual social situation I met a man named Craig Martindale. It was not a religious or work situation, just a casual social event attended by lots of other people. He asked me what I did for a living, when I told him, it became obvious that I had struck a nerve. It is important that confidentiality be maintained, so I will be vague, but some of my work centers around the various aspects of religious belief and the dynamics of cults and religious leaders. Craig was very interested in the topic and ended up in a long extended conversation on the issue. He mentioned that he had been active in a ministry and that he was a former pastor.

He was vague about his past and it was clear to me that something significant had occured in his life.

Over the next few years I had the opportunity to have several discussions with him regarding faith, reason, family, love and work. We avoided any serious discussion of his past ministry because it seemed to ellicit incredible sadness.

Frankly, my impression of this person was of a sad, struggling individual. He did tell me personal details of his life over the past several years, but I am not comfortable sharing this. I always came away with a feeling of " ...I wish I could do something for that guy". I discussed him with my wife several times over the years and in meeting him she was struck by a sort of blandness. Mutual friends made the same type of comments.

I saw him about a month or so ago...and I told my wife as we were leaving " I feel bad for Craig...he just seems to be dealing with so much".

Fast forward to last night....I am googling some completely unrelated, irrelevant terms,,,and deep in the google search...I glance at a link...something about cult leader abusing women...blah blah....since this is related to my interest...I follow the link. I then see that this leader is supposed to be in the Toledo area...and dig deeper....then I see see the name L. Craig Martindale...HUH?????

I then find a photo.........omg.....it is him. I then find this site and others, the abuse of power, the draconian rules involving pregnancy and sexuality, the weird bible teachings, the whole "king" thing, and the sexual misconduct material.

I read messages that people actually made major life decisions based on Craig's word. That he live on multi-million dollar property...the weird film.........children wanting to pray to him...

I have been in a state of disbelief for the past 24 hrs. There is such a discrepancy between the person I have come to know...and the monster described by The Way survivors.

Now...I do not doubt for a second all of your experiences. I can tell you, and perhaps this will bring some closure, that he is, too me, a struggling individual who seems to be trying to rebuild his life. I can tell you that if he is sitting on significant wealth...he is hiding it very very well. I see no signs of affluence or power, in any aspects that I can see.

I read accounts that have him working at Bally's, I honestly don't know if that is still the case, but I can tell you he is working in a very modest, even meager position in the Toledo area. This is a job that I have not seen referenced on the net.

He always seemed to be "underemployed" to me...a sense of having fallen from great heights. After finding out what I have in the past 24 hours...I now understand.

Not sure if I will encounter Craig again. I can...but frankly my wife and I are spooked by what we have read here.

Well...that's my story. I'll respond to any inquiries of a general nature....I just don't feel it would be right to air any recent personal issues on the net.

Peace.........

Edited April 17, 2006 by Freud

[Oakspear]

Thanks for "sharing"

Maybe you can suggest that he get his butt on this and other ex-Way sites and apologize. maybe then I'll give a rat's foot about his "recent personal issues"

[Freud]

Thanks for "sharing"

Maybe you can suggest that he get his butt on this and other ex-Way sites and apologize. maybe then I'll give a rat's foot about his "recent personal issues"

I have considered this. Now that I know who he is...I thought of approaching him with this very issue.

But I dunno....the person described in ex-Way material is a psychopathic loon.

[Oakspear]

I have considered this. Now that I know who he is...I thought of approaching him with this very issue.

But I dunno....the person described in ex-Way material is a psychopathic loon.

Maybe, maybe not. Like all people, there is good and bad...the person that you have encountered held virtually unlimited power over peoples' lives...kind of brings out the worst in people, absolute power does.

[johniam]

Freud: He had a pretty good sense of humor when he led TWI. Does he still, or does the "fallen from great heights" now dominate?

[wingnut]

Really Dr Freud?

LCM was known for his concern and care one on one with certain people. The Way has a saying:"Buddha didn't get a large following kicking kids off tricycles". But many can also testify how when they fell from his grace they were slandered and ruined in public by this same concerned minister.

Interesting that I don't know of the founder of the Way ever being given a chance to make things right with the followers he wronged. But LCM had more than one chance when someone stood up to him and gave him the chance to repent and change his ways with no strings attached for loyalty to follow him if he would.

I heard Ted Bundy(sp?) Was a very charming mass-murderer

[laleo]

Your account rings true to me, Freud.

Others may disagree, but "psychopathic loon" might be a bit of an overstatement. Just arrogant. Very arrogant. Unapologetically and consistently arrogant. Overcompensating for his overwhelming incompetence, most likely. Being a cult leader was the wrong line of work for him. He scared away the converts, which is just as well, considering what they were converting to. Hope he's happy in whatever occupation he has found. And if he's in an entry level position ("underemployed"), that's probably just as well, since he spent far too many years overemployed. A little humility as a form of divine justice, maybe.

I respect the fact that you're unwilling to offer too many details. I think you've made the right choice, considering the hostility that might be unleashed toward him, and maybe you, too. (Some like to shoot the messenger.) You'll likely get a little taste of it on this thread as it continues on.

Are you testing the waters here, Freud, wondering where to go in your interactions with Craig? Like I said, your description of him rings true, so I don't think your personal safety is in any danger, if that's what you're asking.

I have very few beliefs about God, the universe, or whatever power it is that puts these things into motion, but I think that the people who come into our lives at the time that they do are there for a reason. I'm interested in hearing where this all leads, if you're inclined to offer updates.

[allan w.]

Sounds like Craig might have 'come to himself', if fleetingly.

I always found him very dynamic teaching the Word, I would even say one of the world-wide best. It's such a shame he didn't utilize it for 'good'. Unfortunately, the crap he and others caused 'seared their conscience with a hot aairon', to the point where they could never be fully trusted again.

[SafariVista]

:(

Words fail me at the moment... how very strange~

[Freud]

Your account rings true to me, Freud.

Others may disagree, but "psychopathic loon" might be a bit of an overstatement. Just arrogant. Very arrogant. Unapologetically and consistently arrogant. Overcompensating for his overwhelming incompetence, most likely. Being a cult leader was the wrong line of work for him. He scared away the converts, which is just as well, considering what they were converting to. Hope he's happy in whatever occupation he has found. And if he's in an entry level position ("underemployed"), that's probably just as well, since he spent far too many years overemployed. A little humility as a form of divine justice, maybe.

I respect the fact that you're unwilling to offer too many details. I think you've made the right choice, considering the hostility that might be unleashed toward him, and maybe you, too. (Some like to shoot the messenger.) You'll likely get a little taste of it on this thread as it continues on.

Are you testing the waters here, Freud, wondering where to go in your interactions with Craig? Like I said, your description of him rings true, so I don't think your personal safety is in any danger, if that's what you're asking.

I have very few beliefs about God, the universe, or whatever power it is that puts these things into motion, but I think that the people who come into our lives at the time that they do are there for a reason. I'm interested in hearing where this all leads, if you're inclined to offer updates.

Thanks for the response and the reply of others.

I have not experienced what I would call a strong sense of humor. He does have a interest in sports and enjoys talking sports and athletes. Otherwise I sense a "broken man"...a phrase that came to my mind after my first conversation with him. There is a timidy to him now. He is a physically a big-boned man, but is almost obsequious in conversations.

I do believe in repentance and forgiveness...but I was not the one wronged by him.

I did relate to him that I was a " Christian" and a pretty traditional one. He didn't delve into any serious theological debate with me. He prefered to discuss other personal struggles when the topic was raised.

Again...this is all new to me. I have no agenda or plan beyond getting this info off of my chest.

Pax et bonum!

[excathedra]

children wanting to pray to him...

where did you read that ?

how in 24 hours did you grasp so much and find that he worked at ballys, etc. ?

also, what is it that you do for a living ?

thanks

[laleo]

If he seems subservient, it is consistent with Way culture. There was a hierarchy that was mostly respected, especially toward those who were "ministers" or "healers." If he recognizes you as someone who might display some of those qualities, it would come naturally to him to defer to you, as part of his former training. It is my guess that he would have a difficult time forming a relationship with you as an equal, given his background. Sounds like he's reaching out to you a little.

[wwjesuslaughat]

Freud,

I admit I'm no computer genius, but I couldn't find anything on google that suggested some of the things you said you found. Also, I'm a little confused. Did you find something online that specifically said that Martindale was known to be a former cult leader and living in the Toledo area?

Don't newspapers have access to that kind of information? Wouldn't you think that that kind of info would make the local news? I mean, wouldn't the people of Toledo want to know about a sexual predator in their midst?

Just curious.

[johniam]

quote: I did relate to him that I was a " Christian" and a pretty traditional one.

Before Craig was in TWI (1971) he was raised a Southern Baptist and his recountings of that part of his life sounded like he had been pretty traditional as well. Like laleo says, it sounds like he is trying to bond with you on some level.

[excathedra]

just watch he doesn't bond with your wife

[Freud]

where did you read that ?

how in 24 hours did you grasp so much and find that he worked at ballys, etc. ?

also, what is it that you do for a living ?

thanks

I have read a MASS of material in the past 24 hrs concerning this whole issue. I read two posts ( not here I don't believe)...sounds like different incidents....that reference a child and Martindale and God". The first is that a child had watched the video where he dances...and then that night telling his mom that he should pray to Martindale instead of God.

The second..I just read a few hours ago (not sure where...but I can track down the link) that a child said that listening to Rev. Martindale was the same as listening to God.

Again...I've read so much...it is all a jumble of really strange stuff.

As to how I grasp so much in so short a time...Google is the answer :)

Really...Google..L Craig Martindale.......Google The Way International.......it is a post grad education on a flat screen!

What do I do for a living? Not gonna say. But it does involve a lot of reading

Freud,

I admit I'm no computer genius, but I couldn't find anything on google that suggested some of the things you said you found. Also, I'm a little confused. Did you find something online that specifically said that Martindale was known to be a former cult leader and living in the Toledo area?

Don't newspapers have access to that kind of information? Wouldn't you think that that kind of info would make the local news? I mean, wouldn't the people of Toledo want to know about a sexual predator in their midst?

Just curious.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff173817.htm

Read the third post down..( I think it is the third)

[excathedra]

ok those incidents sound familiar regarding children. it was the way your phrased it that threw me off

you didn't say it like a wayfer would damn it ha !!!!!

[excathedra]

maybe he seems bland because he's on heavy meds

[wwjesuslaughat]

I did read that post. It appears to be a consumer alert ripoff site and that particular area was concerning Ballys. That particular post was submitted by someone who claims to live in Arizona. Rumors have abounded here since Craig was fired about where he was and what he was doing. Are you substantiating the story here that he is indeed employed by Bally's, or has been in the recent past? I noticed that post was submitted in January 2006. Did you find anything out about possible action taken by Bally's in Toledo?

I still could not find anything on the web by googling "L. Craig Martindale" or "The Way International" that specifically states that Martindale is currently living in the Toledo area, until I saw your post on GS tonight. If I missed that elsewhere here at GS, I apologize.

I typed in "cult leader abuses women" and found a disturbingly large number of hits, none of which mentioned Martindale or TWI specifically in those hits. I even looked at Toledo area newspaper articles that might mention a former cult leader living in that city, and found nothing.

I guess what I'm wondering is, is there some sort of corroboration you want from GS, or are you just trying to connect what you've stumbled upon here with the person you have been casually aquainted with the last two years? You must have some awareness even at this point that posting of your conversations with this man and the attitude you've percieved from him is going to bring up a lot of discussion.

[GarthP2000]

wwjl,

Don't newspapers have access to that kind of information? Wouldn't you think that that kind of info would make the local news? I mean, wouldn't the people of Toledo want to know about a sexual predator in their midst?

This would be true only if Martindale was a _convicted_ sex offender, which (unless I'm mistaken) he is not.

Unconvicted is another story, methinks.

[excathedra]

the bally thing is old

he worked there. don't know if he still does. and i think he worked at UPS as well

yeah freud (cute screen name) you will get a lot of attention here, whether you like it or not

[dmiller]

As to how I grasp so much in so short a time...Google is the answer :)

Try DOGPILE instead.

Much more comprhensive!

(plus -- when talking about lcm -- the name fits!) ;)

[dmiller]

(Hint -- Type in Loy Craig Martindale -- and see what you come up with).

David

[Freud]

I did read that post. It appears to be a consumer alert ripoff site and that particular area was concerning Ballys. That particular post was submitted by someone who claims to live in Arizona. Rumors have abounded here since Craig was fired about where he was and what he was doing. Are you substantiating the story here that he is indeed employed by Bally's, or has been in the recent past? I noticed that post was submitted in January 2006. Did you find anything out about possible action taken by Bally's in Toledo?

I still could not find anything on the web by googling "L. Craig Martindale" or "The Way International" that specifically states that Martindale is currently living in the Toledo area, until I saw your post on GS tonight. If I missed that elsewhere here at GS, I apologize.

I typed in "cult leader abuses women" and found a disturbingly large number of hits, none of which mentioned Martindale or TWI specifically in those hits. I even looked at Toledo area newspaper articles that might mention a former cult leader living in that city, and found nothing.

I guess what I'm wondering is, is there some sort of corroboration you want from GS, or are you just trying to connect what you've stumbled upon here with the person you have been casually aquainted with the last two years? You must have some awareness even at this point that posting of your conversations with this man and the attitude you've percieved from him is going to bring up a lot of discussion.

I am confused now :blink:

No...I posted the link because someone said that they could not find any reference on the web to Toledo and a former cult leader (or something like this). This persons post didn't have Craig's name in it...but a previous post by her did.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff173817.htm

She had incorrectly said Dayton....then corrected it in the other link I posted.

Here is the EXACT timeline of events that lead me to here:

1. I google some consumer watchdog info.....I google a bunch of terms....imbedded in the numerous links...I see a reference to Bally....and I forget exactly what it said...but Toledo was in the synopsis...as was cult.......

2. I click to the post........hmmm....sounds interesting.

3. I google New Knoxville Ohio cults..and The Way

4. I get links to The WAY and info about The Way

5. I find the name L. Craig Martindale.

6. The L throws me. He goes by Craig.

7. I find old Photo....yikes that is him. Except he is now completely bald and gray on the rim.

...and off I go....

I do believe I also read posts on this site that he was reported to live in the Toledo area.

Posted the wrong second link. This mentions his name but incorrectly gives Dayton as the city.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff168152.htm

[excathedra]

completely bald and gray on the rim ? what ? if you're completely bald, how can you have gray ? what is the rim ?

this is not a cult question. this is a hair (or lack thereof) question

by the way you are quite the poster child

how's come you're so good freud ? do you go on other forums ?