For a long time I shrugged my shoulders when my gay friends used the 'if you hate gays so vehemently, then you're a closet queen' argument. How would I know?
But I've been married to a gay man...twice...and I am married to a straight man...have been for nearly 26 years...
And I gotta tell ya, being disgusted with, even loathing homosexuality isn't a tell-tale sign of being a closet queen.
Yeah, it's fun to tease my hubs about it...I mean, teasing my hubs is just plain fun no matter what...hehehe. Teasing others that I know well enough to know that they know I'm teasing them is fun...in small doses at opportune times.
But as a general rule of thumb? Nah. It doesn't float.
What does float, however, is how often and how quickly one can go from adultery/promiscuity to multiple partners to 'curiousity' indulgences to 'anything goes'.
It is a common thought among many groups that mankind in general is basically bi-sexual.
I don't know if I would go that far...but I do know that when sex is mixed with drinking and/or drugs and is seen as 'just a bodily function', then it's not a far leap from 'straight' to 'bi'.
Many cultures accept bi-sexuality as normal, too.
Who really knows what lurks in the hearts of men, anyway?
Um...well...uh...Tom...I asked that particular question because I was hoping somebody would reply with "The Shadow Knows!"....hehehehe...kind like your "sitting on a park bench" statement...hehehehe...
"THEREFORE YOU have no excuse or defense or justification, O man, whoever you are who judges and condemns another. For in posing as judge and passing sentence on another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge are habitually practicing the very same things [that you censure and denounce]."
... is what the Bible he teaches from says.
Romans, chapter 2, verse 1.
The context of that statement, or at least the verses immediately prior to it are the one speaking about... ( who'd a thunk it?)
HOMOSEXUALITY.
"The next verse! Why don't they EVER read the next VERSE!"
hi howard what does the next verse say or did you say it ?
hey satori
Well then she obviously watched herself on a video monitor.
ha that was good
anyway i think the dude had issues
and wierwille wasn't a homosexual hater was he ? nah just a woman hater. straight women i think....
ps i apologize to homosexuals who read this thread. and that you have to be put into a category with craig at his worst hatred. whether you're closet or out, you shouldn't have to be linked with hatred
hope you know what i mean
it's cruel to link craig and his venom with homosexuals. you know like him being gay
but i guess what it really means is that he couldn't deal with such a thing
still trying to sort this s hit out. i probably have been offensive myself for which i apologize
For the record LCM never stated he hated homosexuals. His exact words on the subject was that he hated the devil spirits that made them act that way, and then he went on to say, According to the Word of God I have every right to hate the devil in a "renewed mind" believing kind of way. (Now that phrase may not be quoting LCM verbatim, but it's extremely close to what he actually said on the subject.)
I believe if that weren't really the case, then what other possible reason would those with homo devil spirits [or gays if you want to put it that way] take such a brash comment so personally? It's probably the homo spirits in the gays that are hating him right back for that. What I think ultimately happened is that they [the homo spirits] declared an all out war right back on LCM after he declared his personal war on them - and they eventually won the battle.
Who really knows what lurks in the hearts of men, anyway?
I think that was a typical "cop out" excuse from ministry types who couldn't control their anger. In other words, they were just hatin' the devil, that's all. You just got caught in the crossfire.
Right.
They were imbeciles, WTH. I think you must be smarter than that.
Yeah...I think his comments of driving out to the wow field and dragging tha offending person/s behind his car with chains wasn't somehow aimed at the daimonion if you know what I mean.
For the record LCM never stated he hated homosexuals. His exact words on the subject was that he hated the devil spirits that made them act that way, and then he went on to say, According to the Word of God I have every right to hate the devil in a "renewed mind" believing kind of way. (Now that phrase may not be quoting LCM verbatim, but it's extremely close to what he actually said on the subject.)
For the record, your excuse for lcm is nothing like what he said.
Yeah...I think his comments of driving out to the wow field and dragging tha offending person/s behind his car with chains wasn't somehow aimed at the daimonion if you know what I mean.
I never heard him say that PARTICULAR one,
but it fits in with what I know he DID say, so I won't doubt it.
He did mention that he'd "gladly" murder them.
Those of you keeping score, this is me and Allan agreeing on something.
Contrast "never said he hated homosexuals" with "..fag-foot, lily-livered, rump-ranger, butt-pirate, turd-burglar, pillow-biter slime balls..." Yes, that was all in the same SENTENCE.
Your rapidly loosing more and more credibility all the time WW. Your jaded-mindset always keeps you focused on some singular fact that you want to spotlight. The link you provided is LCM addressing some real messed up Corp - he's not speaking to the general public on the topic of homosexuality. But this is a classic example of an extreme individual (who here doesn't realize that about LCM anyway) dealing very poorly with a very extreme situation.
So you provided a link to a transcript where Craig went off on a tirade on some messed-up Corp people. Big deal. I have a tape with LCM stating exactly what I previously posted - and for the record he was not speaking out of frustration or dealing with messed-up Corp people on that tape. He was speaking to the general public on the subject of homosexuality. For the record I tend to take what someone says casually as being and representing the truth regarding their position on a topic, not what they might say out of extreme anger and frustration when they happen to be dealing with extreme circumstances.
Your rapidly loosing more and more credibility all the time WW.
[i'm sure most readers here have greater comprehension than
you're demonstrating here. You COULD have dropped the
"lcm NEVER stated he hated homosexuals" thing before bringing
it up, since it was pretty much common knowledge that he went off
on hateful tirades and advocated violenced for them.
However, you went there anyway, so I posted with evidence we
ALL have access to. At that point, you COULD have dropped it again,
since it's more than obvious your original point's completely
discredited. However, since you insist on persisting,
I'll go the extra mile. ]
Your jaded-mindset always keeps you focused on some singular fact that you want to spotlight.
[YOU were the one who claimed lcm NEVER said he hated homosexuals.
THAT was the singular "fact" YOU fixated on. I provided evidence it was error.
You're still fixated on your position, however. Sad, but typical.
AND accusing me of the problem you yourself are clearly demonstrating.
You know, lcm claimed that the Pharisees accused Jesus of the things
they themselves were guilty of-I imagine you remember that?
In fact, he said that people "born of the seed of the serpent" commonly
accused the sons of God of things they themselves did.
Nicely ironic, that..]
The link you provided is LCM addressing some real messed up Corp
[Let's review.
To get in the DOOR at the corps,
one needed to complete the Foundational, Intermediate and Advanced
classes, and endure the scrutiny that was already part and parcel
of twi at the time. (This was written July 1994, and lcm had been turning
twi into a police state-complete with "thought police", and kicking out
all dissenters-for about 4-5 years at the time.)
THEN the candidate needed a RECOMMENDATION to be CONSIDERED
for the corps.
THEN they were considered for admission.
This includes the "Birth to the Corps" autobiography they were REQUIRED
to submit.
That means that the corps-before walking in the door to begin their
FIRST DAY as corps-were screened at SEVERAL LEVELS.
IF there were a number of people somehow escaping their screening process
to detect anything that were actually of that thing, who actually made it in,
this means one of two things.
A) the screening process was circumvented by a network of operatives
whose sole goal was to subvert the process and get them in.
For example,
if lcm was screening out left-handed people, then-if left-handed people
made it past ALL the screening levels, that meant the Left-Handed League
was secretly subverting dozens of people and secretly inserting
Left-Handers into the organization.
Are you stupid enough to think that there was an organized network
of homosexuals spending large blocks of time infiltrating twi and
inserting their members into the corps?
If you're claiming these homosexuals lcm raved about EXISTED,
then that's what you're claiming.
or
B) lcm POSSIBLY found ONE homosexual, or NONE at all.
lcm trumped up an entire witchhunt with the purposes of
kicking out people he wanted to kick out, and uniting the members
against a common enemy. Since there WAS no common enemy,
he was content to INVENT one.
(The witch-hunts of history, and the communist hunts of the
Mc Carthy era were famous examples of just this sort of thing.
You can look them up if you've never heard of them.)
So, I trust,
anyone with a functioning BRAIN can see that
lcm was raving about a threat that didn't exist.
He raved about them FREELY whenever he had a microphone.
Listening to the tapes? You'll hear them mentioned.
Listening to the phone-hookup? Same deal.
Eating lunch in the cafeteria? All the time-spoiled your appetite.
Sitting for ANY length of time with lcm at the podium?
GUARANTEED.
He was OBSESSED with them.
The idea of you saying "lcm NEVER said" something when in fact
you lack access to the vast majority of what he DID say was the
first flag you had no idea what you were talking about.
Whatever the rest of the sentence was, it would have been easy
enough to DISPROVE-with ONE example.
He was NOT addressing "messed-up corps."
He was addressing the most loyal people he HAD at the time-
who were screened multiple times for loyalty.
And to THEM he said this,
saying they were LOADED with "infiltrators."]
- he's not speaking to the general public on the topic of homosexuality.
[Not that moment, no, but he did so OFTEN, it was a favourite topic
of his. And he said many, many things to them, many, many times.
Most of them-guess what? you weren't there to hear! However, you've
already decided what he said. Amazing the level of closed-mindedness
that takes.
When addressing the people LEAST LIKELY to object to what he said,
he SCREAMED and SPEWED vile insults about homosexuals and obsessed
over them.
"Never said he hated homosexuals?" He SCREAMED it in person,
and spewed it on paper.
Your inability to see it-which, admittedly, is rather baffling-notwitstanding.]
But this is a classic example of an extreme individual (who here doesn't realize that about LCM anyway) dealing very poorly with a very extreme situation.
[The "very extreme situation" never EXISTED!
lcm also raved about the Pope's AIRCRAFT CARRIER!
And how he was going to declare martial law and force conversion on threat of violence!
lcm raved OFTEN about "very extreme situations" that never existed.
Did you miss how Y2K was going to lead to the fall of Western civilization?
We would have rioting in the streets and a collapse of all banks.
Didn't happen, of course.
It was another "very extreme situation" lcm raved about.
They kept people busy so they didn't think about what bs lcm was in the first place.
To hear him say it in the ENTIRE letter (never bothered to READ it, did you?)
he suggests the ROAs were cancelled due to homosexuals, as was the wow program.
In fact, anything good in twi was ruined solely due to the efforts of homosexuals.
(Except the pfal class-and if he could have come up with a pretext for saying
that one, he would have.)]
So you provided a link to a transcript where Craig went off on a tirade on some messed-up Corp people.
[No, this was an AVERAGE update to the corps from lcm the crazy-person,
who saw conspiracies EVERYWHERE.
The only new thing was the names of a few people he singled out here.
Given his track record, I have no way of knowing if they were COMPLETELY INNOCENT
of anything he claimed. He did, however, invoke his phrase
"GENUINE SPIRITUAL SUSPICION."
"SUSPICION" is neither genuine nor spiritual.
And the "tirade" was TYPICAL.]
Big deal. I have a tape with LCM stating exactly what I previously posted
[You have A tape. I presented A letter. Neither changes the content of the other.
You claimed the letter never claimed lcm hated homosexuals-
you said
"FOR THE RECORD, LCM NEVER SAID HE HATED HOMOSEXUALS."
That means that this letter doesn't exist, because he "NEVER" said it.
Your tape changed NOTHING about the letter.
lcm-in the letter-spewed hatred of homosexuals at length.]
- and for the record he was not speaking out of frustration or dealing with messed-up Corp people on that tape. He was speaking to the general public on the subject of homosexuality.
[so when he was planning on speaking to a LARGER audience, including people
who were less likely to blindly follow him off the cliff-
LCM MODERATED HIS MESSAGE.
What is so difficult to see about that?
He told different things to different people.
And-there WERE more public venues where he raved about them that
you DON'T have copies of.
I don't have them because-guess what?
I left when I saw a maniac was in charge.
Others here have mentioned them-of course, you've missed THAT.
And if they presented THOSE, you'd be as incapable of comprehending
that as you were the letter you DO have access to.
You do not WISH to believe the evidence-
therefore it does not EXIST.]
For the record I tend to take what someone says casually as being and representing the truth regarding their position on a topic, not what they might say out of extreme anger and frustration when they happen to be dealing with extreme circumstances.
[so you have an excuse that works for you as to why someone can
have a letter-which can be written anytime and REwritten when one is
CALMER-
and have its contents completely DISCOUNTED when they are distasteful
to you, I'm sure, is quite relaxing to you.
Your pretext need not affect nor concern the REST of us, however.
Thank you for playing, WTH.
Thank you for making your level of understanding evident.
Thank you for defending the indefensible with all sincerity.
Your parting gifts are still waiting for you in the lobby.]
WW, he must think he's fooling someone, but those of us who lived through it know the truth. I don't need any letter, tape or other proof....I have it all in my memory - much as I wish I didn't.
Craig hated homosexuals - stated he wished he could kill them like they did in the OT times and used rather harsh language. I remember one elderly lady coming back from the ROA where he cancelled the program and went off on one of his tirades. She was shocked, offended and appalled at his language, hatred and vehemence. The local leadership told her it was because he was so "spiritually angry". :huh:
What I don't get, and maybe this should go on another thread, is how and why Rosie and Donna approved of his teaching on the Eve ~ Lesbian thing. You know his class subjects had to be known by them before being made public.
WW, he must think he's fooling someone, but those of us who lived through it know the truth. I don't need any letter, tape or other proof....I have it all in my memory - much as I wish I didn't.
Craig hated homosexuals - stated he wished he could kill them like they did in the OT times and used rather harsh language. I remember one elderly lady coming back from the ROA where he cancelled the program and went off on one of his tirades. She was shocked, offended and appalled at his language, hatred and vehemence. The local leadership told her it was because he was so "spiritually angry". :huh:
Seems a lost cause to argue it when there are so many eyewitnesses,
but it seems to make him happy.
As for the "spiritual anger" thing, lcm (and vpw, for that matter)
would slap the name (or concept) "spiritual" on things to make them
acceptable, or to change the meaning of the thing.
"Spiritual suspicion", "spiritual anger", adultery was "spiritual adultery"
and not the actual act, etc.
That was already starting at the end of the 80s, actually.
I made a joke about it at the time which is not appropriate
for public consumption, which was gotten immediately due to the
tendency to slap "spiritual" on ANYTHING.
What I don't get, and maybe this should go on another thread, is how and why Rosie and Donna approved of his teaching on the Eve ~ Lesbian thing. You know his class subjects had to be known by them before being made public.
My guess-and it is ONLY a guess-
is that they were confident the thought police had succeeded.
You know,
they had publicly ousted all the "homos" and "homo sympathizers"
in their hunt,
so obviously there were none left.
Sorta like the airlines who managed to catch the only 2 pilots
who were drinking when flying, you know?
As for anyone having "genuine spiritual suspicion" about them,
you make have forgotten what they did to YOU when YOU
asked questions-as they did with MANY others.
They ducked answering-"why do you want to know?"
attacked the questioner-"your curiousity is a sign of spiritual immaturity"
and so on.
They were high enough on the totem pole to deflect any
direct questioning.
Besides, there was the CONDITIONING.
twi innies were conditioned to NEVER QUESTION LEADERSHIP
at the risk of being kicked out, losing their salt,
Your rapidly loosing more and more credibility all the time WW. Your jaded-mindset always keeps you focused on some singular fact that you want to spotlight. The link you provided is LCM addressing some real messed up Corp -
... So. Then I guess WHO one addresses is more important than WHAT they say?
AND... If said person is ANGRY and expressing it in an extreme manner, then others whom said person is NOT addressing should DISMISS what said extremely angry person, addressing some who are "messed up" says ans NOT what the angry one actually meant.
Oh.
I get it.
Rather than say that the person made contradictory statements on the topic, with said statements being based more on to whom the person was speaking than what he actually believed. We should believe that the person only made base, hideously ugly statements about the topic when he was angry and speaking to thos whom he considered as "messed up."
THEREFORE. Since one is messed up, its OK, for someone (who is angry at you BECAUSE you're messed up) to yell ugly things at you....
BECAUSE... after al he really doesn't mean it. He only does that because he's extremely angry.
AFTER ALL... its normal for angry people to say things they don't mean.
SO any time LCM yelled ugly things, it was because he was angry.
WE should dismiss them all because he really didn't mean it... ANY of it.
OK.
THANKS What the hay!
All this time I was thinking LCM was a liar, a jealous angry bastard so filled with self loathing that he spilled it out all over anyone and everyone whenever he felt like it.
Now I can sleep better, knowing that LCM never really meant the stuff he said. Especially when he was angry.
I dunno Roy. Maybe we're speculating because it's mentally stimulating to look at something from all angles--especially when the perpetrator has exhibited criminal behavior previously. Those things that WW quoted don't fit with a minister's "sermon" and we're just trying to make sense of it all. That's all.
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CoolWaters
For a long time I shrugged my shoulders when my gay friends used the 'if you hate gays so vehemently, then you're a closet queen' argument. How would I know?
But I've been married to a gay man...twice...and I am married to a straight man...have been for nearly 26 years...
And I gotta tell ya, being disgusted with, even loathing homosexuality isn't a tell-tale sign of being a closet queen.
Yeah, it's fun to tease my hubs about it...I mean, teasing my hubs is just plain fun no matter what...hehehe. Teasing others that I know well enough to know that they know I'm teasing them is fun...in small doses at opportune times.
But as a general rule of thumb? Nah. It doesn't float.
What does float, however, is how often and how quickly one can go from adultery/promiscuity to multiple partners to 'curiousity' indulgences to 'anything goes'.
It is a common thought among many groups that mankind in general is basically bi-sexual.
I don't know if I would go that far...but I do know that when sex is mixed with drinking and/or drugs and is seen as 'just a bodily function', then it's not a far leap from 'straight' to 'bi'.
Many cultures accept bi-sexuality as normal, too.
Who really knows what lurks in the hearts of men, anyway?
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Tom Strange
Usually not women...
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CoolWaters
And there ya have it...I dunno! :D :D :D
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Tom Strange
I think that's a "woman thing" CW... the "I wonder what he/she is thinking"...
My wife is always asking me that... and my response generally is "I don't know... why do I care?"
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CoolWaters
Um...well...uh...Tom...I asked that particular question because I was hoping somebody would reply with "The Shadow Knows!"....hehehehe...kind like your "sitting on a park bench" statement...hehehehe...
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
something i said on this or another thread offended chattykathy and i want to publically appoligize to her
sorry kathy :wub:
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HCW
Is Craig gay?
Hmmmm......
"THEREFORE YOU have no excuse or defense or justification, O man, whoever you are who judges and condemns another. For in posing as judge and passing sentence on another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge are habitually practicing the very same things [that you censure and denounce]."
... is what the Bible he teaches from says.
Romans, chapter 2, verse 1.
The context of that statement, or at least the verses immediately prior to it are the one speaking about... ( who'd a thunk it?)
HOMOSEXUALITY.
"The next verse! Why don't they EVER read the next VERSE!"
Hmmm.....
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excathedra
hi howard what does the next verse say or did you say it ?
hey satori
ha that was goodanyway i think the dude had issues
and wierwille wasn't a homosexual hater was he ? nah just a woman hater. straight women i think....
ps i apologize to homosexuals who read this thread. and that you have to be put into a category with craig at his worst hatred. whether you're closet or out, you shouldn't have to be linked with hatred
hope you know what i mean
it's cruel to link craig and his venom with homosexuals. you know like him being gay
but i guess what it really means is that he couldn't deal with such a thing
still trying to sort this s hit out. i probably have been offensive myself for which i apologize
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WhiteDove
Yes
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What The Hey
For the record LCM never stated he hated homosexuals. His exact words on the subject was that he hated the devil spirits that made them act that way, and then he went on to say, According to the Word of God I have every right to hate the devil in a "renewed mind" believing kind of way. (Now that phrase may not be quoting LCM verbatim, but it's extremely close to what he actually said on the subject.)
I believe if that weren't really the case, then what other possible reason would those with homo devil spirits [or gays if you want to put it that way] take such a brash comment so personally? It's probably the homo spirits in the gays that are hating him right back for that. What I think ultimately happened is that they [the homo spirits] declared an all out war right back on LCM after he declared his personal war on them - and they eventually won the battle.
WRONG! - Women always know!
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satori001
"I don't hate you, I hate your devil spirits."
WTH, did Jesus ever say anything like that?
I think that was a typical "cop out" excuse from ministry types who couldn't control their anger. In other words, they were just hatin' the devil, that's all. You just got caught in the crossfire.
Right.
They were imbeciles, WTH. I think you must be smarter than that.
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allan w.
Yeah...I think his comments of driving out to the wow field and dragging tha offending person/s behind his car with chains wasn't somehow aimed at the daimonion if you know what I mean.
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Tom Strange
I concur.
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WordWolf
For the record, your excuse for lcm is nothing like what he said.
We have a SAMPLING here:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/html...omo-excerpt.htm
I was going to post a lengthy sample, but I object to his language.
What I CAN post:
"Remember, the Word says that homos are 'the lowest of the people', and that is certainly true..."
(after multiple obscenities) "That's the way I feel about you and your thoughts
and your repugnancy." "You are detestable and despicable and repugnant and worthy of death.
You are so far beyond saltiness that you are the ultimate illustration of being
worthless and not even fit for the dunghill."
"...there are some of us who would gladly execute you."
Contrast "never said he hated homosexuals" with
"..fag-foot, lily-livered, rump-ranger, butt-pirate, turd-burglar, pillow-biter slime balls..."
Yes, that was all in the same SENTENCE.
Click the link above.
What you posted bore NO RESEMBLANCE to his screaming tirades.
(There's WORSE than I posted in the link.)
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WordWolf
I never heard him say that PARTICULAR one,
but it fits in with what I know he DID say, so I won't doubt it.
He did mention that he'd "gladly" murder them.
Those of you keeping score, this is me and Allan agreeing on something.
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allan w.
It was quoted at a Rock of ages up on stage by LCM.
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What The Hey
Your rapidly loosing more and more credibility all the time WW. Your jaded-mindset always keeps you focused on some singular fact that you want to spotlight. The link you provided is LCM addressing some real messed up Corp - he's not speaking to the general public on the topic of homosexuality. But this is a classic example of an extreme individual (who here doesn't realize that about LCM anyway) dealing very poorly with a very extreme situation.
So you provided a link to a transcript where Craig went off on a tirade on some messed-up Corp people. Big deal. I have a tape with LCM stating exactly what I previously posted - and for the record he was not speaking out of frustration or dealing with messed-up Corp people on that tape. He was speaking to the general public on the subject of homosexuality. For the record I tend to take what someone says casually as being and representing the truth regarding their position on a topic, not what they might say out of extreme anger and frustration when they happen to be dealing with extreme circumstances.
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WordWolf
[i'm sure most readers here have greater comprehension than
you're demonstrating here. You COULD have dropped the
"lcm NEVER stated he hated homosexuals" thing before bringing
it up, since it was pretty much common knowledge that he went off
on hateful tirades and advocated violenced for them.
However, you went there anyway, so I posted with evidence we
ALL have access to. At that point, you COULD have dropped it again,
since it's more than obvious your original point's completely
discredited. However, since you insist on persisting,
I'll go the extra mile. ]
[YOU were the one who claimed lcm NEVER said he hated homosexuals.THAT was the singular "fact" YOU fixated on. I provided evidence it was error.
You're still fixated on your position, however. Sad, but typical.
AND accusing me of the problem you yourself are clearly demonstrating.
You know, lcm claimed that the Pharisees accused Jesus of the things
they themselves were guilty of-I imagine you remember that?
In fact, he said that people "born of the seed of the serpent" commonly
accused the sons of God of things they themselves did.
Nicely ironic, that..]
[Let's review.
To get in the DOOR at the corps,
one needed to complete the Foundational, Intermediate and Advanced
classes, and endure the scrutiny that was already part and parcel
of twi at the time. (This was written July 1994, and lcm had been turning
twi into a police state-complete with "thought police", and kicking out
all dissenters-for about 4-5 years at the time.)
THEN the candidate needed a RECOMMENDATION to be CONSIDERED
for the corps.
THEN they were considered for admission.
This includes the "Birth to the Corps" autobiography they were REQUIRED
to submit.
That means that the corps-before walking in the door to begin their
FIRST DAY as corps-were screened at SEVERAL LEVELS.
IF there were a number of people somehow escaping their screening process
to detect anything that were actually of that thing, who actually made it in,
this means one of two things.
A) the screening process was circumvented by a network of operatives
whose sole goal was to subvert the process and get them in.
For example,
if lcm was screening out left-handed people, then-if left-handed people
made it past ALL the screening levels, that meant the Left-Handed League
was secretly subverting dozens of people and secretly inserting
Left-Handers into the organization.
Are you stupid enough to think that there was an organized network
of homosexuals spending large blocks of time infiltrating twi and
inserting their members into the corps?
If you're claiming these homosexuals lcm raved about EXISTED,
then that's what you're claiming.
or
B) lcm POSSIBLY found ONE homosexual, or NONE at all.
lcm trumped up an entire witchhunt with the purposes of
kicking out people he wanted to kick out, and uniting the members
against a common enemy. Since there WAS no common enemy,
he was content to INVENT one.
(The witch-hunts of history, and the communist hunts of the
Mc Carthy era were famous examples of just this sort of thing.
You can look them up if you've never heard of them.)
So, I trust,
anyone with a functioning BRAIN can see that
lcm was raving about a threat that didn't exist.
He raved about them FREELY whenever he had a microphone.
Listening to the tapes? You'll hear them mentioned.
Listening to the phone-hookup? Same deal.
Eating lunch in the cafeteria? All the time-spoiled your appetite.
Sitting for ANY length of time with lcm at the podium?
GUARANTEED.
He was OBSESSED with them.
The idea of you saying "lcm NEVER said" something when in fact
you lack access to the vast majority of what he DID say was the
first flag you had no idea what you were talking about.
Whatever the rest of the sentence was, it would have been easy
enough to DISPROVE-with ONE example.
He was NOT addressing "messed-up corps."
He was addressing the most loyal people he HAD at the time-
who were screened multiple times for loyalty.
And to THEM he said this,
saying they were LOADED with "infiltrators."]
[Not that moment, no, but he did so OFTEN, it was a favourite topicof his. And he said many, many things to them, many, many times.
Most of them-guess what? you weren't there to hear! However, you've
already decided what he said. Amazing the level of closed-mindedness
that takes.
When addressing the people LEAST LIKELY to object to what he said,
he SCREAMED and SPEWED vile insults about homosexuals and obsessed
over them.
"Never said he hated homosexuals?" He SCREAMED it in person,
and spewed it on paper.
Your inability to see it-which, admittedly, is rather baffling-notwitstanding.]
[The "very extreme situation" never EXISTED!
lcm also raved about the Pope's AIRCRAFT CARRIER!
And how he was going to declare martial law and force conversion on threat of violence!
lcm raved OFTEN about "very extreme situations" that never existed.
Did you miss how Y2K was going to lead to the fall of Western civilization?
We would have rioting in the streets and a collapse of all banks.
Didn't happen, of course.
It was another "very extreme situation" lcm raved about.
They kept people busy so they didn't think about what bs lcm was in the first place.
To hear him say it in the ENTIRE letter (never bothered to READ it, did you?)
he suggests the ROAs were cancelled due to homosexuals, as was the wow program.
In fact, anything good in twi was ruined solely due to the efforts of homosexuals.
(Except the pfal class-and if he could have come up with a pretext for saying
that one, he would have.)]
[No, this was an AVERAGE update to the corps from lcm the crazy-person,who saw conspiracies EVERYWHERE.
The only new thing was the names of a few people he singled out here.
Given his track record, I have no way of knowing if they were COMPLETELY INNOCENT
of anything he claimed. He did, however, invoke his phrase
"GENUINE SPIRITUAL SUSPICION."
"SUSPICION" is neither genuine nor spiritual.
And the "tirade" was TYPICAL.]
[You have A tape. I presented A letter. Neither changes the content of the other.
You claimed the letter never claimed lcm hated homosexuals-
you said
"FOR THE RECORD, LCM NEVER SAID HE HATED HOMOSEXUALS."
That means that this letter doesn't exist, because he "NEVER" said it.
Your tape changed NOTHING about the letter.
lcm-in the letter-spewed hatred of homosexuals at length.]
[so when he was planning on speaking to a LARGER audience, including peoplewho were less likely to blindly follow him off the cliff-
LCM MODERATED HIS MESSAGE.
What is so difficult to see about that?
He told different things to different people.
And-there WERE more public venues where he raved about them that
you DON'T have copies of.
I don't have them because-guess what?
I left when I saw a maniac was in charge.
Others here have mentioned them-of course, you've missed THAT.
And if they presented THOSE, you'd be as incapable of comprehending
that as you were the letter you DO have access to.
You do not WISH to believe the evidence-
therefore it does not EXIST.]
[so you have an excuse that works for you as to why someone can
have a letter-which can be written anytime and REwritten when one is
CALMER-
and have its contents completely DISCOUNTED when they are distasteful
to you, I'm sure, is quite relaxing to you.
Your pretext need not affect nor concern the REST of us, however.
Thank you for playing, WTH.
Thank you for making your level of understanding evident.
Thank you for defending the indefensible with all sincerity.
Your parting gifts are still waiting for you in the lobby.]
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Belle
WW, he must think he's fooling someone, but those of us who lived through it know the truth. I don't need any letter, tape or other proof....I have it all in my memory - much as I wish I didn't.
Craig hated homosexuals - stated he wished he could kill them like they did in the OT times and used rather harsh language. I remember one elderly lady coming back from the ROA where he cancelled the program and went off on one of his tirades. She was shocked, offended and appalled at his language, hatred and vehemence. The local leadership told her it was because he was so "spiritually angry". :huh:
What I don't get, and maybe this should go on another thread, is how and why Rosie and Donna approved of his teaching on the Eve ~ Lesbian thing. You know his class subjects had to be known by them before being made public.
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WordWolf
Seems a lost cause to argue it when there are so many eyewitnesses,
but it seems to make him happy.
As for the "spiritual anger" thing, lcm (and vpw, for that matter)
would slap the name (or concept) "spiritual" on things to make them
acceptable, or to change the meaning of the thing.
"Spiritual suspicion", "spiritual anger", adultery was "spiritual adultery"
and not the actual act, etc.
That was already starting at the end of the 80s, actually.
I made a joke about it at the time which is not appropriate
for public consumption, which was gotten immediately due to the
tendency to slap "spiritual" on ANYTHING.
My guess-and it is ONLY a guess-
is that they were confident the thought police had succeeded.
You know,
they had publicly ousted all the "homos" and "homo sympathizers"
in their hunt,
so obviously there were none left.
Sorta like the airlines who managed to catch the only 2 pilots
who were drinking when flying, you know?
As for anyone having "genuine spiritual suspicion" about them,
you make have forgotten what they did to YOU when YOU
asked questions-as they did with MANY others.
They ducked answering-"why do you want to know?"
attacked the questioner-"your curiousity is a sign of spiritual immaturity"
and so on.
They were high enough on the totem pole to deflect any
direct questioning.
Besides, there was the CONDITIONING.
twi innies were conditioned to NEVER QUESTION LEADERSHIP
at the risk of being kicked out, losing their salt,
being given over to the devil,
and becoming a greasespot by midnight.
So, I imagine they felt pretty safe.
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themex
No, I do not think he was a homosexual. He was other things but not homo!
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HCW
... So. Then I guess WHO one addresses is more important than WHAT they say?
AND... If said person is ANGRY and expressing it in an extreme manner, then others whom said person is NOT addressing should DISMISS what said extremely angry person, addressing some who are "messed up" says ans NOT what the angry one actually meant.
Oh.
I get it.
Rather than say that the person made contradictory statements on the topic, with said statements being based more on to whom the person was speaking than what he actually believed. We should believe that the person only made base, hideously ugly statements about the topic when he was angry and speaking to thos whom he considered as "messed up."
THEREFORE. Since one is messed up, its OK, for someone (who is angry at you BECAUSE you're messed up) to yell ugly things at you....
BECAUSE... after al he really doesn't mean it. He only does that because he's extremely angry.
AFTER ALL... its normal for angry people to say things they don't mean.
SO any time LCM yelled ugly things, it was because he was angry.
WE should dismiss them all because he really didn't mean it... ANY of it.
OK.
THANKS What the hay!
All this time I was thinking LCM was a liar, a jealous angry bastard so filled with self loathing that he spilled it out all over anyone and everyone whenever he felt like it.
Now I can sleep better, knowing that LCM never really meant the stuff he said. Especially when he was angry.
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year2027
God first
Beloved all
God loves us all
I sorry but I do not understand why any one would even care
I write not because I want to talk about Craig but because this seems out of place to me
but who am I but a man too
Because this tread seem to jump out at me to write that I think some thing is wrong here so I reply
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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waterbuffalo
I dunno Roy. Maybe we're speculating because it's mentally stimulating to look at something from all angles--especially when the perpetrator has exhibited criminal behavior previously. Those things that WW quoted don't fit with a minister's "sermon" and we're just trying to make sense of it all. That's all.
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