Thank you. These things provided something for one of my points of late. I'd just spoken my mind but not provided anything so this is much appreciated.
If you expand your experience then more than likely you'll consider doing it again when opportunity comes along. If you hold something that defines what's acceptable towards another and not take their dignity then you can have great fun in your own proper fashion. But if you have little to nothing to hold onto then I think for the better part you'll give into temptation to some degree. Weak minds will follow their bodies.
BTW, I'm certainly not a prude so please don't consider it just a church lady's point of view. :)
(for one I would not edit but for two mistakes...geez)
Millions of men and boys are falling for the destructive myth that looking at "adult" porn is normal, healthy and harmless for "regular guys." Way too many are finding themselves handcuffed between two cops, under arrest for sexual conduct with a kid.
Ssssssssstttt.
This is a leap in logic that I'm not willing to take.
There's way too much information left out between sentence one and sentence two. Although the article does go on to try and bridge that gap, I do not feel that the bridge was built sturdily enough to walk across.
Also, it is a concern to me that the only option this article provides for getting information about the profile of a child molester is a link to an advertisement to buy the book. This kind of information needs to be free, easily accessed and repeated a gazillion times. IMO.
The phrase "sexual conduct with a kid" is flip...and leaves a sense of 'questionable activity' instead of 'criminal activity'. IMO.
I dunno...this article doesn't sit quite right with me.
Ya know, the article seems to have it's valid points. When it comes to the destructiveness of porn, I can see the argument of it "desensitizing" one's sexual appetite. For instance, if one is married for a long long time, and his wife is no longer the "fold out" that she once was, and then consistently views the young women performing sexual acts in a porn website (and I am talking about adult "normal" hetero porn here), I can see how this could diminish one's appetite for one's own spouse. The same with women who view porn. What if her one time Adonis of a husband is now fat, lost his hair, can't get it up like he used to without Viagra, doesn't appeal to her anymore? And then she goes to a porn website, or watches porn videos and views all of the young studs? I believe it will have it's impact, although I do believe that men in general are more voracious as a whole, than women are.
To be sure, we certainly have seen a major rise in sex crimes in the last twent years, and I think it is safe to say that the abundance of pornography and it's easy access has been a major contributer to it. And by the way, there seems to be more and more of the young female teacher seducing and having sex with 12 and 14 year old boy situations, no? Have you all noticed that? I think that the first big case of notoriety was that gal from Seattle, Mary Kay LeTourneau.
Shoot, when I was a kid, all Playboy showed was breasts and maybe naked rear ends. And, we used to try and figure out those non-existent (as we now know) dirty words to Louie Lou-eye. And whoa! What a scandalous thing when Xaviera Hollender's book "The Happy Hooker" came out! Scandalous! But today? All of that is nothing. by comparison. The first explicit thing I ever read was page 28 of The Godfather, by Mario Puzzo. That's when Sonny does the job on a bridesmaid at his own wedding. But nowadays, big whup...
Anyway, I am not really sure what the detailed detriments are, but, I am willing to bet that there are some serious detriments that come of it....
It does seem to be completely in opposition to the words of Jesus Christ when he said that if a man even thinks of having sex with another women besides his wife, he has comitted adultery in his heart already. So really, that should settle it. It doesn't define the consequences of it, but, Jesus does say that it is sin, and sin brings on bad fruit in one's life...
May I add that the road to most serial killing is also paved with porn.
Where's part II? That's a good article.
TheEvan - while I won't deny that there is a conection I'll also pose this question. Does porn make serial murderers or is porn just one trait of a serial killer... who might also eat carrots.
My brother in law is a forensic psychiatrist and has often posed, "Why is porn rated X and outlawed which is a so called natural act taken to the extreme, but axe murders and beheadings are rated M or PG-17 when none of those acts are considered natural.
I'm not favoring porn - just wondering about the whole system.
extremes are present in every facit of life..Nothing new under the sun..
Some good logic there Johnny..Life has a very special balance...People who dont set perameters in life dont see the exttremes rather there is satisfaction in obtaining it, altho, I think the fix is temporary.
I have several friends here who are loaded with moolah , and they are very selfish and guarded and very unhappy on the inside,altho, they will never tell you that out loud..But they wear the fruit of it.
THe internet world is playing a huge influence on the older and the younger..instant gratification.....
The article seems to be implying that viewing porn converts a regular guy into a pedophile. I don't believe that for a minute from what I currently understand about pedophilia. I do know that getting "addicted" to porn can be destructive to marriages, though.
My ex used to look at porn. Would've been fine with me if we'd done it together, it was the secrecy and then the continued action after promising to do that kind of thing WITH me instead of behind my back that bothered me more than anything.
I'm not talking about online chats or anything personal involving real live other folks, but movies, erotica, magazines and online ADULT pics....
I think there are different levels and degrees of porn - soft, hard core, etc. So in discussing this, some definitions of terms may be needed. I have no issue with "soft" porn, which can be tastefully done.
However, I do think the hard core stuff has the potential to harm and and that potential does reach fruition.
First, hard core porn tends to objectify the participants, and most frequently women. Second, it does desensitize one to sexuality, so that what was once a beautiful act between two people is now something entirely different. It moves and at time erases boundaries. There was a time, when maybe some of these boundaries needed to be moved, to allow for more open discussions on the topic of sex, but we have since moved way beyond that. And finally, as I think was pointed out elsewhere in this thread or another, its portrayal changes sex from an act that was about give and take, to one that is strictly about take.
And lordy does it change ones perspective and expectations about the act. I wonder how many guys out there think they have to make their woman "plateau the mountain" several times, or else they are not considered to be a good lover? How many women think they have to be flexable enough to bend into a pretzel, thin enough to wear a size two and yet still have boobs big enough to fill out Dolly's bra in order to be sexy?
My ex used to look at porn. Would've been fine with me if we'd done it together, it was the secrecy and then the continued action after promising to do that kind of thing WITH me instead of behind my back that bothered me more than anything.
Belle -- porn is porn. Plain and simple. Had you looked at it together -- who knows who each of you might have been *fantisizing about*, as you both made love as husband and wife??
Reason I say this -- is because this exact same thing happened to a co-worker of mine --
who liked to watch dirty videos with her husband, then *get it on*.
The short of the long story here is -- the videos became more real, and exciting to him, than she did.
She is hurting daily -- cause he doesn't think of her anymore.
She is hurting daily -- cause he is ignoring his family now.
She is hurting daily -- cause he prefers videos to her.
She is hurting daily -- cause when they do make love --
She's sure it isn't her he's making love to -- but to a fantasy instead.
She TALKS about this stuff at work (when we all take smoke breaks),
and I was *red-faced* early on listening to all this --
but then she asked me MY perspective -- and I couldn't ignore it.
I mean -- this is a co-worker who I enjoy working with,
and it hurt me to see her soooooo hurt --- just because of some *videos*,
that she watched with her husband -- that ruined their marriage.
She wanted to know if we all enjoyed *videos*, and if they were beneficial.
I told her I didn't watch them, never have, and never will ---
(since she asked the bunch of us there).
I told her -- (and the group there on the back porch ---)
Plain and simple -- porn is this ---------------------
Something you see, done by other folks, that will never happen to you.
It gets *juices* flowing, when they shouldn't be --
Puts thoughts in your mind that shouldn't be there.
Makes you want to act with others, when you should NOT.
Plus -- it is un-Godly -- regardless of who views it.
I told her that, and she started crying -- right there during our smoke break.
*Plus -- it is un-Godly -- regardless of who views it* --
seemed to strike a nerve -- even though she is not
particuarily what *one would call a Christian*.
Seems to me -- some truths are *self-evident* -- regardless of your *persuasion*.
Meebe an old-fogey here -- but sex belongs in the bedroom of a married couple.
Not on film. Not in magazines. Not on the internet. Not nowhere.
***posted by Abigail - switched computers and forgot to log Sushi out****
Thought I would add . . .
What makes the difference, between sex and violence in movees is that you can pretty much count on almost all kids having sex some day (though ideally not til they are adults), but most kids will not go around killing each other. Kids understand that sex isa normal and acceptable behavior, but violence is not.
That being said, I do agree that the amount of violence children see on t.v. must certainly have an effect on them. It is getting more and more difficult to stop children from viewing it. I cannot count how many times I have heard "but all my other friends have seen Freddy v Jason, why can't I?" And so I do allow them to see some movies (though not that one) that have violence in them. But I pick and choose which ones, based on plot content and gore factors (and I watch with them so we can discuss what they are seeing). However, I would be even less inclined to let them watch sexually explicit movies because I expect them to be far more curious about and tempted to experiment with sex, than they will be with violence.
I'd bet that over 98% of all axe-murderers have axes in their houses. Of course, so do lots of other people.
When it comes to the whackjobs that commit the weirdo sex crimes and the like, is it any wonder that they'd have porn in their homes? I don't find that fact to be the least bit remarkable. The question becomes a chicken and egg kinda deal though. Did the guy start looking at porn and become a sexual predator, or was he a predator already, and just collecting more stuff that reflected the obsession he already had?
I tend to think the later.
I guess I'm not the quintessential "normal" American man, but lord knows I looked at my share of porn when I was younger, and I can't see as it did me any harm. Probably didn't do me any good either, but what the hell?
And isn't it generally the "other" guys we're worried about when it comes to stuff we'd like to censor? You know, we're together enough to handle that sort of thing, but - Lord have mercy - if those lesser-type folks get ahold of it, all Hell will surely break loose...
Dr. Phil made a good point IMHO about pornography. The women, children, and men in the videos, pictures, or movies are being exploited. Think about it if those people were your relatives. Would you like someone getting their jollies on looking at something your relative did? I know it doesn't seem as invasive for men who act or pose in pornography, but it is still exploitation. Most people in the pornography busines are doing it for one reason only: the almightly dollar. If they had the choice to do something more rewarding for the same amount of money, I'm sure most would. Maybe some of the men in porn would still like to do porn for a living because it may seem like their dream, but that's sexual addiction and another story.
I guess I'm not the quintessential "normal" American man, but lord knows I looked at my share of porn when I was younger, and I can't see as it did me any harm. Probably didn't do me any good either, but what the hell?
Soft core porn leads to hard core porn.
GEEZ ---------- This reminds me of a story I once posted about Dog Poop Brownies --
I forget where it was, but it is CERTAINLY APPLICABLE to this thread ----
Kids wanted to watch a tv show, that had *questionable* material.
Dad said no -- but the kids said -- It's OK, there's just a little bad stuff there.
Dad said nothing, but went to the kitchen to make some brownies, for treats,
during the tv. show.
While the kids were watching the tv show, the Dad offered the brownies.
The kids eagerly grabbed at the brownies, and then the Dad said ----
"Oh -- I mixed *just a little bit of dog poop*, in the recipe ---
Enjoy. :)
Did the kids eat the brownies with the *dog poop* mixed in, regardless of how little??
You tell me, and then try and tell me how a *little* porn is good.
You can't do it. Sorry -- It's bad -- through and through.
For me to criticize someone about there personal sexual fantasies and means of satisfaction would be ridicules.
We know that our young men easily gain access to everything they want just from the internet and television. That concerns us here I can see. That's what I was talking about. I'm not talking about normal adolescent peeking and exploration.
But if acceptable keeps moving forward in what is allowed and it would appear it has thus far then that means we're also starting our youth off with it. I don't know how much impact that will have to be honest but it must some.
My concern is unstable adults and we've seen how our preteens dress. Mix that in with what can be seen to work oneself up and then the little girl across the street comes home and tragedy awaits. He's lacking in moral conscience at that time (I imagine we'd all agree).
When do you not sound like your mother and go the moral values of this country have failed in some critical ways, myself accused.
Millions of men and boys are falling for the destructive myth that looking at "adult" porn is normal, healthy and harmless for "regular guys
The reality is that the real thing is never as good as the fantasy. Real women don't have that perfect figure, perfect hair, perfect makeup and perfect disposition 24/7. Real women usually aren't going to be able to fulfill every sexual fantasy to begin with, and definitely not as the fantasies get more elaborate.
Men are visually stimulated when it comes to sex, as more porn is viewed more stimulation is required. As the real woman or women in their lives fail to measure up to the fantasy they go looking elsewhere. Porn addiction is a lose lose for everyone
As I read my morning news, and check out the court section, I find the following
A) A man convicted of assaulting a police officer - he is listed as a habitual offender, his sentences is 14 months to 3 years in prison.
B) A Sex offender is sentenced for failing to register, he gets 20 days in jail.
C) Another man is conviced of assault with a deadly weapon, domestic violence, second offense, he gets 1 year.
I could go on with the sentencing lists, but you get my point.
Last Thursday a 17 year old boy was shot in the chest 3 times, on a school playground 3 blocks from my home. The suspect (who is still on the loose) is a 25 year old boy who is "well known to the police", is listed as a habitual offender, and already has 2 assault convictions on his records. He only did 3 years for the two assualt convictions.
I don't know how we can protect ourselves or prevent someone from committing their first crime. I don't have the answer to that. But what I cannot understand is WHY WHY WHY do we continue to release known violent offenders back into our society?????
I don't know how we can protect ourselves or prevent someone from committing their first crime. I don't have the answer to that. But what I cannot understand is WHY WHY WHY do we continue to release known violent offenders back into our society?????
Well, how do you propose to fix that?
Kill them all? With our imperfect and politically-driven justice system, a lot of innocents would end up executed
Imprison them all for life? Are we going to be willing to pay an average cost of $40k per year per prisoner for maybe 10% of our society for the rest of their lives? Look at what's happening to California with their 3 strikes law...and the Supreme Court has mandated a fairly comfortable existence for these people...so it's not like you can dump 'em in a hole
Exile them? Who is going to want to give up their private little island? Or other plot of land?
Don't get me wrong, Abi, I agree with you...but I don't know how to solve it.
Yes, I would pay to keep them in prison if that is what it takes. I would also be in favor of the death penalty for repeat violent offenders (I say repeat, because if they have been convicted more than once, odds are higher they weren't wrongly convicted).
Last year, a girl who lived 3 blocks from us was abducted from her grandmother's home and killed - again by a repeat violent offender.
I would also like to see some research put into why these crims are committed and alternatives to how we can prevent them. Lansing has seen some rough times economically, and I believe that as our economy contineus to fail, crime will continue to go up. That is one correlation.
As access to more and more graphic sexual material becomes easier and easier, I do think that will drive crime up.
As more and more kids (particularly those in their teen years - which is such a difficult developmental stage) are left unsupervised with too much time on their hands, crime will continue to go up.
Yes, I would pay to keep them in prison if that is what it takes. I would also be in favor of the death penalty for repeat violent offenders (I say repeat, because if they have been convicted more than once, odds are higher they weren't wrongly convicted).
I just finished my taxes a little while ago. Last year, I ended up (not including sales tax) paying 45% of my income to the government (well over $15K to the state alone). I'm afraid I don't know where I'll come up with more money to pay for it. After all, when somebody is "willing to pay," it's usually people like me who end up picking up the tab.
Don't get me wrong, in principle I agree, I just don't know where the money's going to come from.
I would also like to see some research put into why these crims are committed and alternatives to how we can prevent them. Lansing has seen some rough times economically, and I believe that as our economy contineus to fail, crime will continue to go up. That is one correlation.
I, too, would like to see more research. But two points:
- what about the agenda of the researchers?
- are we willing to do what the research recommends? What if they recommend the first amendment get restricted to exclude porn? To exclude political speech? To exclude some kinds of music? etc.
As access to more and more graphic sexual material becomes easier and easier, I do think that will drive crime up.
As more and more kids (particularly those in their teen years - which is such a difficult developmental stage) are left unsupervised with too much time on their hands, crime will continue to go up.
Okay, David, I see your point and, I suppose if TWI hadn't been the major issue in our marriage the porn would quickly have become problem #1. :(
I know a wee bit more about computers than he does, so even though he tried to hide his tracks, I knew he was lying about not doing it anymore. I'm not going to delve further into this since we know the WAYGB and the Moynihans monitor this site and I don't want to embarrass him anymore than I already have. I should have thought about that before I posted, but I really didn't see a problem with it when he including me.
I got a PM from a lady who's too afraid to post, but she told me that her husband would stay up till the wee hours of the morning checking out porno sites. He would get all worked up sexually and then go to bed and rape her. She got to the point where she would sleep fully clothed - jeans, zippers, buttons, on everything to make it harder for him to access her body. Sex no longer was about two loving people, but rather about gratification and control. And we know TWI taught that the men were always in control....
*****
On another note regarding what I know about police departments:
Most don't have the budget to spend on detectives. My ex's department detectives and officers who were supposed to be investigating, troubleshooting and trying to prevent crimes faced incredible budget shortfalls. Frequently overtime pay was cut 1/3 of the way through the year because of budget constraints. Sometimes it was just forbidden to work OT and other times they were allowed to accrue comp time. The problem with comp time is the officers were then able to take ungodly amounts of time away from work, which just made the problem worse, and the people available to work even more deficient.
The parents are a HUGE issue with these things. So many parents just don't give a rip. They don't know the friends of their kids; the kids' last names much less who the parents are. You'd be surprised at how many parents don't know where their own kids go when they leave the house and they sure as heck don't want to spend time with the officers trying to help them when their kids get into trouble.
My ex had a woman who's daughter was caught with men a great deal older than she was and they were smoking pot. They got busted and, this daughter was sleeping with these older men... (rape in my book, but not legally). When my ex took the daughter home and wanted to talk to the mother about it...out of concern for this girl's well-being...the mother asked him to hurry up because she needed to get to church. :unsure:
Unfortunately I have way too many stories of parents like this and it would always bring him home in a bad/sad mood to see such horrible parental care, concern and oversight. This was in the poor sections of town just as much as it was in the rich sections. The problem with the rich sections of town was that those kids have more money and more resources to develop more serious problems more quickly.
I think properly raising one's kids would be the biggest proactive way to avoid much of this. The problem is so many folks these days are quick to skirt any personal responsibility and to just leave it up to society to raise their kids. The church going crowd were the prime offenders second only to the drug addicts in my ex's experiences. I suppose that's yet one more reason why he was so adamant that TWI was the only "right" church. :(
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TheEvan
May I add that the road to most serial killing is also paved with porn.
Where's part II? That's a good article.
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ChattyKathy
Mark,
Thank you. These things provided something for one of my points of late. I'd just spoken my mind but not provided anything so this is much appreciated.
If you expand your experience then more than likely you'll consider doing it again when opportunity comes along. If you hold something that defines what's acceptable towards another and not take their dignity then you can have great fun in your own proper fashion. But if you have little to nothing to hold onto then I think for the better part you'll give into temptation to some degree. Weak minds will follow their bodies.
BTW, I'm certainly not a prude so please don't consider it just a church lady's point of view. :)
(for one I would not edit but for two mistakes...geez)
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CoolWaters
Ssssssssstttt.
This is a leap in logic that I'm not willing to take.
There's way too much information left out between sentence one and sentence two. Although the article does go on to try and bridge that gap, I do not feel that the bridge was built sturdily enough to walk across.
Also, it is a concern to me that the only option this article provides for getting information about the profile of a child molester is a link to an advertisement to buy the book. This kind of information needs to be free, easily accessed and repeated a gazillion times. IMO.
The phrase "sexual conduct with a kid" is flip...and leaves a sense of 'questionable activity' instead of 'criminal activity'. IMO.
I dunno...this article doesn't sit quite right with me.
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J0nny Ling0
Ya know, the article seems to have it's valid points. When it comes to the destructiveness of porn, I can see the argument of it "desensitizing" one's sexual appetite. For instance, if one is married for a long long time, and his wife is no longer the "fold out" that she once was, and then consistently views the young women performing sexual acts in a porn website (and I am talking about adult "normal" hetero porn here), I can see how this could diminish one's appetite for one's own spouse. The same with women who view porn. What if her one time Adonis of a husband is now fat, lost his hair, can't get it up like he used to without Viagra, doesn't appeal to her anymore? And then she goes to a porn website, or watches porn videos and views all of the young studs? I believe it will have it's impact, although I do believe that men in general are more voracious as a whole, than women are.
To be sure, we certainly have seen a major rise in sex crimes in the last twent years, and I think it is safe to say that the abundance of pornography and it's easy access has been a major contributer to it. And by the way, there seems to be more and more of the young female teacher seducing and having sex with 12 and 14 year old boy situations, no? Have you all noticed that? I think that the first big case of notoriety was that gal from Seattle, Mary Kay LeTourneau.
Shoot, when I was a kid, all Playboy showed was breasts and maybe naked rear ends. And, we used to try and figure out those non-existent (as we now know) dirty words to Louie Lou-eye. And whoa! What a scandalous thing when Xaviera Hollender's book "The Happy Hooker" came out! Scandalous! But today? All of that is nothing. by comparison. The first explicit thing I ever read was page 28 of The Godfather, by Mario Puzzo. That's when Sonny does the job on a bridesmaid at his own wedding. But nowadays, big whup...
Anyway, I am not really sure what the detailed detriments are, but, I am willing to bet that there are some serious detriments that come of it....
It does seem to be completely in opposition to the words of Jesus Christ when he said that if a man even thinks of having sex with another women besides his wife, he has comitted adultery in his heart already. So really, that should settle it. It doesn't define the consequences of it, but, Jesus does say that it is sin, and sin brings on bad fruit in one's life...
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RumRunner
TheEvan - while I won't deny that there is a conection I'll also pose this question. Does porn make serial murderers or is porn just one trait of a serial killer... who might also eat carrots.
My brother in law is a forensic psychiatrist and has often posed, "Why is porn rated X and outlawed which is a so called natural act taken to the extreme, but axe murders and beheadings are rated M or PG-17 when none of those acts are considered natural.
I'm not favoring porn - just wondering about the whole system.
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likeaneagle
extremes are present in every facit of life..Nothing new under the sun..
Some good logic there Johnny..Life has a very special balance...People who dont set perameters in life dont see the exttremes rather there is satisfaction in obtaining it, altho, I think the fix is temporary.
I have several friends here who are loaded with moolah , and they are very selfish and guarded and very unhappy on the inside,altho, they will never tell you that out loud..But they wear the fruit of it.
THe internet world is playing a huge influence on the older and the younger..instant gratification.....
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Belle
I understand the kiddie porn and the child-like porn, but is all porn bad? For everyone? Period - end of story?
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dmiller
I believe so -- don't you???
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Sudo
The article seems to be implying that viewing porn converts a regular guy into a pedophile. I don't believe that for a minute from what I currently understand about pedophilia. I do know that getting "addicted" to porn can be destructive to marriages, though.
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Belle
I dunno, David. That's why I asked.
My ex used to look at porn. Would've been fine with me if we'd done it together, it was the secrecy and then the continued action after promising to do that kind of thing WITH me instead of behind my back that bothered me more than anything.
I'm not talking about online chats or anything personal involving real live other folks, but movies, erotica, magazines and online ADULT pics....
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Abigail
I think there are different levels and degrees of porn - soft, hard core, etc. So in discussing this, some definitions of terms may be needed. I have no issue with "soft" porn, which can be tastefully done.
However, I do think the hard core stuff has the potential to harm and and that potential does reach fruition.
First, hard core porn tends to objectify the participants, and most frequently women. Second, it does desensitize one to sexuality, so that what was once a beautiful act between two people is now something entirely different. It moves and at time erases boundaries. There was a time, when maybe some of these boundaries needed to be moved, to allow for more open discussions on the topic of sex, but we have since moved way beyond that. And finally, as I think was pointed out elsewhere in this thread or another, its portrayal changes sex from an act that was about give and take, to one that is strictly about take.
And lordy does it change ones perspective and expectations about the act. I wonder how many guys out there think they have to make their woman "plateau the mountain" several times, or else they are not considered to be a good lover? How many women think they have to be flexable enough to bend into a pretzel, thin enough to wear a size two and yet still have boobs big enough to fill out Dolly's bra in order to be sexy?
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dmiller
Belle -- porn is porn. Plain and simple. Had you looked at it together -- who knows who each of you might have been *fantisizing about*, as you both made love as husband and wife??
Reason I say this -- is because this exact same thing happened to a co-worker of mine --
who liked to watch dirty videos with her husband, then *get it on*.
The short of the long story here is -- the videos became more real, and exciting to him, than she did.
She is hurting daily -- cause he doesn't think of her anymore.
She is hurting daily -- cause he is ignoring his family now.
She is hurting daily -- cause he prefers videos to her.
She is hurting daily -- cause when they do make love --
She's sure it isn't her he's making love to -- but to a fantasy instead.
She TALKS about this stuff at work (when we all take smoke breaks),
and I was *red-faced*
early on listening to all this --
but then she asked me MY perspective -- and I couldn't ignore it.
I mean -- this is a co-worker who I enjoy working with,
and it hurt me to see her soooooo hurt --- just because of some *videos*,
that she watched with her husband -- that ruined their marriage.
She wanted to know if we all enjoyed *videos*, and if they were beneficial.
I told her I didn't watch them, never have, and never will ---
(since she asked the bunch of us there).
I told her -- (and the group there on the back porch ---)
Plain and simple -- porn is this ---------------------
Something you see, done by other folks, that will never happen to you.
It gets *juices* flowing, when they shouldn't be --
Puts thoughts in your mind that shouldn't be there.
Makes you want to act with others, when you should NOT.
Plus -- it is un-Godly -- regardless of who views it.
I told her that, and she started crying -- right there during our smoke break.
*Plus -- it is un-Godly -- regardless of who views it* --
seemed to strike a nerve -- even though she is not
particuarily what *one would call a Christian*.
Seems to me -- some truths are *self-evident* -- regardless of your *persuasion*.
Meebe an old-fogey here -- but sex belongs in the bedroom of a married couple.
Not on film. Not in magazines. Not on the internet. Not nowhere.
Dabble in that -- and you are asking for trouble.
Yes -- Porn is bad for everyone. END OF STORY
David
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Sushi
***posted by Abigail - switched computers and forgot to log Sushi out****
Thought I would add . . .
What makes the difference, between sex and violence in movees is that you can pretty much count on almost all kids having sex some day (though ideally not til they are adults), but most kids will not go around killing each other. Kids understand that sex isa normal and acceptable behavior, but violence is not.
That being said, I do agree that the amount of violence children see on t.v. must certainly have an effect on them. It is getting more and more difficult to stop children from viewing it. I cannot count how many times I have heard "but all my other friends have seen Freddy v Jason, why can't I?" And so I do allow them to see some movies (though not that one) that have violence in them. But I pick and choose which ones, based on plot content and gore factors (and I watch with them so we can discuss what they are seeing). However, I would be even less inclined to let them watch sexually explicit movies because I expect them to be far more curious about and tempted to experiment with sex, than they will be with violence.
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dmiller
Abi -- That is why I TOTALLY SUPPORT THE SAYING --
KILL YOUR TELEVISION!! <_<
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George Aar
Statistics are a wonderful thing, aren't they?
I'd bet that over 98% of all axe-murderers have axes in their houses. Of course, so do lots of other people.
When it comes to the whackjobs that commit the weirdo sex crimes and the like, is it any wonder that they'd have porn in their homes? I don't find that fact to be the least bit remarkable. The question becomes a chicken and egg kinda deal though. Did the guy start looking at porn and become a sexual predator, or was he a predator already, and just collecting more stuff that reflected the obsession he already had?
I tend to think the later.
I guess I'm not the quintessential "normal" American man, but lord knows I looked at my share of porn when I was younger, and I can't see as it did me any harm. Probably didn't do me any good either, but what the hell?
And isn't it generally the "other" guys we're worried about when it comes to stuff we'd like to censor? You know, we're together enough to handle that sort of thing, but - Lord have mercy - if those lesser-type folks get ahold of it, all Hell will surely break loose...
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Nottawayfer
Dr. Phil made a good point IMHO about pornography. The women, children, and men in the videos, pictures, or movies are being exploited. Think about it if those people were your relatives. Would you like someone getting their jollies on looking at something your relative did? I know it doesn't seem as invasive for men who act or pose in pornography, but it is still exploitation. Most people in the pornography busines are doing it for one reason only: the almightly dollar. If they had the choice to do something more rewarding for the same amount of money, I'm sure most would. Maybe some of the men in porn would still like to do porn for a living because it may seem like their dream, but that's sexual addiction and another story.
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dmiller
GEEZ ---------- This reminds me of a story I once posted about Dog Poop Brownies --
I forget where it was, but it is CERTAINLY APPLICABLE to this thread ----
Did the kids eat the brownies with the *dog poop* mixed in, regardless of how little??
You tell me, and then try and tell me how a *little* porn is good.
You can't do it. Sorry -- It's bad -- through and through.
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ChattyKathy
For me to criticize someone about there personal sexual fantasies and means of satisfaction would be ridicules.
We know that our young men easily gain access to everything they want just from the internet and television. That concerns us here I can see. That's what I was talking about. I'm not talking about normal adolescent peeking and exploration.
But if acceptable keeps moving forward in what is allowed and it would appear it has thus far then that means we're also starting our youth off with it. I don't know how much impact that will have to be honest but it must some.
My concern is unstable adults and we've seen how our preteens dress. Mix that in with what can be seen to work oneself up and then the little girl across the street comes home and tragedy awaits. He's lacking in moral conscience at that time (I imagine we'd all agree).
When do you not sound like your mother and go the moral values of this country have failed in some critical ways, myself accused.
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templelady
The reality is that the real thing is never as good as the fantasy. Real women don't have that perfect figure, perfect hair, perfect makeup and perfect disposition 24/7. Real women usually aren't going to be able to fulfill every sexual fantasy to begin with, and definitely not as the fantasies get more elaborate.
Men are visually stimulated when it comes to sex, as more porn is viewed more stimulation is required. As the real woman or women in their lives fail to measure up to the fantasy they go looking elsewhere. Porn addiction is a lose lose for everyone
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Abigail
As I read my morning news, and check out the court section, I find the following
A) A man convicted of assaulting a police officer - he is listed as a habitual offender, his sentences is 14 months to 3 years in prison.
B) A Sex offender is sentenced for failing to register, he gets 20 days in jail.
C) Another man is conviced of assault with a deadly weapon, domestic violence, second offense, he gets 1 year.
I could go on with the sentencing lists, but you get my point.
Last Thursday a 17 year old boy was shot in the chest 3 times, on a school playground 3 blocks from my home. The suspect (who is still on the loose) is a 25 year old boy who is "well known to the police", is listed as a habitual offender, and already has 2 assault convictions on his records. He only did 3 years for the two assualt convictions.
I don't know how we can protect ourselves or prevent someone from committing their first crime. I don't have the answer to that. But what I cannot understand is WHY WHY WHY do we continue to release known violent offenders back into our society?????
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markomalley
Well, how do you propose to fix that?
Kill them all? With our imperfect and politically-driven justice system, a lot of innocents would end up executed
Imprison them all for life? Are we going to be willing to pay an average cost of $40k per year per prisoner for maybe 10% of our society for the rest of their lives? Look at what's happening to California with their 3 strikes law...and the Supreme Court has mandated a fairly comfortable existence for these people...so it's not like you can dump 'em in a hole
Exile them? Who is going to want to give up their private little island? Or other plot of land?
Don't get me wrong, Abi, I agree with you...but I don't know how to solve it.
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Abigail
Yes, I would pay to keep them in prison if that is what it takes. I would also be in favor of the death penalty for repeat violent offenders (I say repeat, because if they have been convicted more than once, odds are higher they weren't wrongly convicted).
Last year, a girl who lived 3 blocks from us was abducted from her grandmother's home and killed - again by a repeat violent offender.
I would also like to see some research put into why these crims are committed and alternatives to how we can prevent them. Lansing has seen some rough times economically, and I believe that as our economy contineus to fail, crime will continue to go up. That is one correlation.
As access to more and more graphic sexual material becomes easier and easier, I do think that will drive crime up.
As more and more kids (particularly those in their teen years - which is such a difficult developmental stage) are left unsupervised with too much time on their hands, crime will continue to go up.
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markomalley
I just finished my taxes a little while ago. Last year, I ended up (not including sales tax) paying 45% of my income to the government (well over $15K to the state alone). I'm afraid I don't know where I'll come up with more money to pay for it. After all, when somebody is "willing to pay," it's usually people like me who end up picking up the tab.
Don't get me wrong, in principle I agree, I just don't know where the money's going to come from.
I, too, would like to see more research. But two points:- what about the agenda of the researchers?
- are we willing to do what the research recommends? What if they recommend the first amendment get restricted to exclude porn? To exclude political speech? To exclude some kinds of music? etc.
You may be right.
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Belle
Okay, David, I see your point and, I suppose if TWI hadn't been the major issue in our marriage the porn would quickly have become problem #1. :(
I know a wee bit more about computers than he does, so even though he tried to hide his tracks, I knew he was lying about not doing it anymore. I'm not going to delve further into this since we know the WAYGB and the Moynihans monitor this site and I don't want to embarrass him anymore than I already have. I should have thought about that before I posted, but I really didn't see a problem with it when he including me.
I got a PM from a lady who's too afraid to post, but she told me that her husband would stay up till the wee hours of the morning checking out porno sites. He would get all worked up sexually and then go to bed and rape her. She got to the point where she would sleep fully clothed - jeans, zippers, buttons, on everything to make it harder for him to access her body. Sex no longer was about two loving people, but rather about gratification and control. And we know TWI taught that the men were always in control....
*****
On another note regarding what I know about police departments:
Most don't have the budget to spend on detectives. My ex's department detectives and officers who were supposed to be investigating, troubleshooting and trying to prevent crimes faced incredible budget shortfalls. Frequently overtime pay was cut 1/3 of the way through the year because of budget constraints. Sometimes it was just forbidden to work OT and other times they were allowed to accrue comp time. The problem with comp time is the officers were then able to take ungodly amounts of time away from work, which just made the problem worse, and the people available to work even more deficient.
The parents are a HUGE issue with these things. So many parents just don't give a rip. They don't know the friends of their kids; the kids' last names much less who the parents are. You'd be surprised at how many parents don't know where their own kids go when they leave the house and they sure as heck don't want to spend time with the officers trying to help them when their kids get into trouble.
My ex had a woman who's daughter was caught with men a great deal older than she was and they were smoking pot. They got busted and, this daughter was sleeping with these older men... (rape in my book, but not legally). When my ex took the daughter home and wanted to talk to the mother about it...out of concern for this girl's well-being...the mother asked him to hurry up because she needed to get to church. :unsure:
Unfortunately I have way too many stories of parents like this and it would always bring him home in a bad/sad mood to see such horrible parental care, concern and oversight. This was in the poor sections of town just as much as it was in the rich sections. The problem with the rich sections of town was that those kids have more money and more resources to develop more serious problems more quickly.
I think properly raising one's kids would be the biggest proactive way to avoid much of this. The problem is so many folks these days are quick to skirt any personal responsibility and to just leave it up to society to raise their kids. The church going crowd were the prime offenders second only to the drug addicts in my ex's experiences. I suppose that's yet one more reason why he was so adamant that TWI was the only "right" church. :(
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