"So tell me what I learned in The Way International?"
Well, ex70, I can't answer that for you - but I'll mention a few things from my life and how it relates to your topic of how VPW and TWI changed me...I can sure get long-winded on that subject - but I'll do a Readers Digest version here...I think I was a "normal" [whatever that is] person going into TWI [with my own set of strengths, weaknesses, dysfunctionality, sins, etc.]. I got some good things and bad things out of TWI...I let myself succumb to the personality molding of the organization...I'm not a salesman [never did get many people to take PFAL], not a manager [ didn't like overseeing twigs, branches or areas]...I left in 86 - and sometimes it's a LOT of WORK to try to figure out who you really are - to wade through the mental baggage - and the doctrine - and the memories - and figure out what's what...Thinking back on all my experiences - there's two things that stick out: Christian Counseling and Systematic Theology.
An area coordinator ran a seminar on Christian Counseling - turned us on to a neat author Jay E. Adams...I've got about 13 of his books. One of my favorites is More Than Redemption: A Theology of Christian Counseling...So what I'm getting out of analyzing my TWI experience is what may be one of the actual roles God wants me to function in...I loved studying the Bible with a view to the big picture - how all aspects of doctrine related to each other - and how it should be applied in life...My fondest memories of "doing something for God" in my TWI days are one-on-one counseling situations. And believe me - I did not have a "holier-than-thou" attitude toward the other person. I always considered myself an experton screwing things up - but humble enough to eventually come around to God's way of doing things...For me - it's always re-assuring when you talk to someone on a Tech Support Hot Line and they're honest and admit they did the same dumb thing you did - and they say "now here's how you fix it - I know - that's what I had to do."
So, ex70 - I don't know where you wanted to go with this - don't know if my post is a de-railer or not...Sometimes I get tired of constantly focusing on all the crap of a certain organization - and just want to get on with my life...I figure I'm in the therapeutic phase of my life - probably be in it till I keel over - so what - I'm a lot better off now then when I was in TWI...
Not until we know what they are about we shouldn't
ever heard of "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"?
While you may feel your doubts are a bit extreme, and that is for you to decide, history has shown that trusting leaders without a wary eye peeled for their faults is a sure path to disaster
This is not what we should be like. We should trust our leaders.
I think church leaders, like police officers, or school teachers or government officials should have checks and balances of power. Why should we trust a person with any aspect of our lives if there are no standards they are to live up to, and no way to see if they are living up to it?
Way leaders had one standard--obey me.
Denominational churches have voting rights, including votes that can oust a bad minister. They have grievance procedures.
TWI had nothing, except luck--the luck of some creep leader being moved to a new area, or the luck of having a good buddy in a higher position of authority than the creep leader. Or maybe, if you were really lucky, someone else would screw up so badly all the creep leader's focus would be on them, and you could breathe for a week or two.
TWI's leadership system encouraged bullies. They could slander and intimidate in the name of God, and they did.
I do think most Christian groups are smarter than that. But we in TWI refused to see any wisdom in the practices of other Christians, and we paid for our arrogance.
need to know a person enough to know their strugles and problems. When I know they are human and can fail, but have a loving and giving heart then I know where they are coming from. When I know where my pastors weakneses are and then see him forgive/accept other people with their problems then I know that he can be trusted at least a little.
This is not what we should be like. We should trust our leaders.
Why shouldnt this be what we should be like?
I think that you expressed it well. I want to know someone, i could give a damn about the slick outside package that someone tries to project. Thats just not the way life is and I dont buy it. I'll take someone who is genuine anyday warts and all, over someone who professes themselves to be some sort of leader but doesnt let you inside their real life.... thats .....no deal.....
Trust is something that is earned over time by being trustworthy. the more trustworthiness they show the more I'll have a tendency to listen and deeply consider the things they have to say
Let's see, after being around that bunch for 20+ years, I've learned to be suspicious of anyone who wasn't a grad of the advanced class. Those that only had the Foundational class were just babies, and Intermediate class grads were growing up and learning to give...
After 5 years without the controlling, old Testament wanna-be, Zion freaks, I'm learning that all of their teachings came equipped with a twisted accessory that attached itself to your mind, and it's WORK trying to find and get rid of all those attachments! <_<
Let's see, after being around that bunch for 20+ years, I've learned to be suspicious of anyone who wasn't a grad of the advanced class. Those that only had the Foundational class were just babies, and Intermediate class grads were growing up and learning to give...
After 5 years without the controlling, old Testament wanna-be, Zion freaks, I'm learning that all of their teachings came equipped with a twisted accessory that attached itself to your mind, and it's WORK trying to find and get rid of all those attachments! <_<
Where do you think Gene Roddenberry came up with the idea of the Borg Safari? You will be assimilated...
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T-Bone
ex70'shouston said
"So tell me what I learned in The Way International?"
Well, ex70, I can't answer that for you - but I'll mention a few things from my life and how it relates to your topic of how VPW and TWI changed me...I can sure get long-winded on that subject - but I'll do a Readers Digest version here...I think I was a "normal" [whatever that is] person going into TWI [with my own set of strengths, weaknesses, dysfunctionality, sins, etc.]. I got some good things and bad things out of TWI...I let myself succumb to the personality molding of the organization...I'm not a salesman [never did get many people to take PFAL], not a manager [ didn't like overseeing twigs, branches or areas]...I left in 86 - and sometimes it's a LOT of WORK to try to figure out who you really are - to wade through the mental baggage - and the doctrine - and the memories - and figure out what's what...Thinking back on all my experiences - there's two things that stick out: Christian Counseling and Systematic Theology.
An area coordinator ran a seminar on Christian Counseling - turned us on to a neat author Jay E. Adams...I've got about 13 of his books. One of my favorites is More Than Redemption: A Theology of Christian Counseling...So what I'm getting out of analyzing my TWI experience is what may be one of the actual roles God wants me to function in...I loved studying the Bible with a view to the big picture - how all aspects of doctrine related to each other - and how it should be applied in life...My fondest memories of "doing something for God" in my TWI days are one-on-one counseling situations. And believe me - I did not have a "holier-than-thou" attitude toward the other person. I always considered myself an expert on screwing things up - but humble enough to eventually come around to God's way of doing things...For me - it's always re-assuring when you talk to someone on a Tech Support Hot Line and they're honest and admit they did the same dumb thing you did - and they say "now here's how you fix it - I know - that's what I had to do."
So, ex70 - I don't know where you wanted to go with this - don't know if my post is a de-railer or not...Sometimes I get tired of constantly focusing on all the crap of a certain organization - and just want to get on with my life...I figure I'm in the therapeutic phase of my life - probably be in it till I keel over - so what - I'm a lot better off now then when I was in TWI...
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templelady
Not until we know what they are about we shouldn't
ever heard of "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"?
While you may feel your doubts are a bit extreme, and that is for you to decide, history has shown that trusting leaders without a wary eye peeled for their faults is a sure path to disaster
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Bramble
I think church leaders, like police officers, or school teachers or government officials should have checks and balances of power. Why should we trust a person with any aspect of our lives if there are no standards they are to live up to, and no way to see if they are living up to it?
Way leaders had one standard--obey me.
Denominational churches have voting rights, including votes that can oust a bad minister. They have grievance procedures.
TWI had nothing, except luck--the luck of some creep leader being moved to a new area, or the luck of having a good buddy in a higher position of authority than the creep leader. Or maybe, if you were really lucky, someone else would screw up so badly all the creep leader's focus would be on them, and you could breathe for a week or two.
TWI's leadership system encouraged bullies. They could slander and intimidate in the name of God, and they did.
I do think most Christian groups are smarter than that. But we in TWI refused to see any wisdom in the practices of other Christians, and we paid for our arrogance.
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mstar1
Why shouldnt this be what we should be like?
I think that you expressed it well. I want to know someone, i could give a damn about the slick outside package that someone tries to project. Thats just not the way life is and I dont buy it. I'll take someone who is genuine anyday warts and all, over someone who professes themselves to be some sort of leader but doesnt let you inside their real life.... thats .....no deal.....
Trust is something that is earned over time by being trustworthy. the more trustworthiness they show the more I'll have a tendency to listen and deeply consider the things they have to say
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Shellon
TWI taught me how not to treat people.
That has been an invaluable skill.
No degrees or classes or books will ever show me lies and deceipt and corruption and harm to human life like they did.
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RumRunner
Damned straight Shellon
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GrouchoMarxJr
They taught me that there is a sucker born every minute.
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RumRunner
Naw Groucho - that was P.T. Barnum and the Ringling Broths... oh yeah - I forgot - same thing
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SafariVista
Let's see, after being around that bunch for 20+ years, I've learned to be suspicious of anyone who wasn't a grad of the advanced class. Those that only had the Foundational class were just babies, and Intermediate class grads were growing up and learning to give...
After 5 years without the controlling, old Testament wanna-be, Zion freaks, I'm learning that all of their teachings came equipped with a twisted accessory that attached itself to your mind, and it's WORK trying to find and get rid of all those attachments! <_<
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RumRunner
Where do you think Gene Roddenberry came up with the idea of the Borg Safari? You will be assimilated...
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SafariVista
:unsure:
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oldiesman
That God loves me despite my sins (the palms of God)...
How to get born again...
That I have sonship rights...
That I am completely completely absolutely complete in Him...
My power of attorney...
God wants me to hold fast that which is good...
God wants me free from fear worry doubt anxiety and all matter of oppression...
Speaking in tongues...
Jesus Christ is the Way Truth & Life, no man cometh to God but by him...
There is One Baptism by Holy Spirit and water baptism is not required for salvation...
Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not God the Son...
I am As He Is...
Jesus Kept the Passover...
Whatever a Person Believes Is Directly Reflected In What He Confesses...
Simon of Cyrene and the Cross Christ Bore...
God wants me to believe all the benefits He has promised me thru Christ...
Pauls Thorn in the Flesh...
Ekklesia: Bride or Body?
God is our Sufficiency...
Church the Great Mystery Revealed, Christ in You, the hope of glory...
The Bondage of the Sabbath Day....
Body, Soul, Spirit...
The Unqualified Commitment...
How to be a Christian...
What true worship is...
Filled to Overflowing....
Why Division...
The Final Victory...
Did I leave anything out? :)
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
yeah ya did oldies
how to act like a christian while accually you are living the life of a deamon
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oldiesman
Can you cite some examples?
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