Was There A Specific Point?

[Ham]

yeah..

the first time they offered to be "family".

lets see how long they can pretend..

[Ham]

I'm being generous here...

[Broken Arrow]

O

Edited November 5, 2010 by Broken Arrow

[Broken Arrow]

I wish I could say that one year as I was attending the Rock of Ages I heard V.P. teach. As I sat there, listening, at one point I stood up amongst the throng and I said, "Shut up!", and walked straight out of that meeting. A person on Bless Patrol stopped me and said, "We're so sorry you were not able to stay and listen the message of our minister. We're sure it would have been a blessing." I looked him straight in the eye and I said, "It has been a DISGRACE, for me, to have been, in this fellowship this evening", and I've never been back since! But that's not what happened.

I wish I could say that when I heard the POP paper, my eyes opened and I saw how ludricrous the whole thing was. So I left and started a whole new life. Today I'm very happy, filthy rich, and I still have my own teeth. That's not what happened either. I heard the POP paper, and along with 90% of my area, went with a splinter group. I don't know what I would have done if most of the people around me remained with TWI.

Then I wish I could say while I was in that splinter, I soon came to realize that what the group was mostly about was fulfilling the leader's ego. But, I didn't. Truth be told, my wife at the time quit going. I "ordered" her to go with me and she refused and basically told me I could do whatever I wanted but she was out. I was ashamed that I was a Corps Grad but I couldn't get my own wife to fellowship. To my credit, I really did get bored with this group. Being bored and ashamed and eventually faded out without uttering a peep.

Then I briefly became involved in CES, and did the Momentus thing. But my wife by that time was not in the least bit interested in anything Christian and soon our marriage was disintegrating right before my eyes. Finally my marriage completely blew apart and with it, I did too. THAT was when I realized that I knew nothing of any value and learned nothing of any value from TWI. I realized TWI was nothing more than a balloon full of hot air and I turned and asked God for help. I began to entertain other points of view and the more I did, the more erroneous TWI became.

While completely out of TWI for almost 15 years, in my mind I still held on to some lies. That's when, for reasons I cannot now remember, started coming to this website. I learned about the indescretions of VP, and much of his "revelations" became unraveled. It was tough, but I needed to know. Like many of you, I came face to face with my own naivity and realized I had been conned. What's more, I participated in the con. I wanted it all to be true, so I made it true regardless of the facts.

So, what was my turning point? It was when I became desperate and desire for the truth became more important than preserving my own image, position, or current belief system.

Sorry...obviously I clicked the wrong button and my post turned out to be a reply. I don't feel like re-writing that whole thing. I have no idea how I did this!

Edited November 5, 2010 by Broken Arrow

[Gen-2]

Yeah EJ er,.. BA That reminds me of a verse...

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way;

and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Gotta wonder if there's any truth to that,... eh?

[WordWolf]

My story was typical of the time.

I was aware there were a few problems among the higher-ups, and I could tell they were

problems with lcm. (Hey, I visited hq at the ROA and other times. Listening to him

talk enough, you could tell he was at least part of the problem.)

However, I was confident (being young and foolish and naive) that things could be

solved internally by the others talking sense to him and lcm thinking it over

and making changes. I even said so.

A few weeks after I said that, hq sent a letter saying that all my state's leadership-

including one of the people I thought could talk sense to lcm- were fired.

It also included vague, serious accusations that ALL of them (a blanket accusation)

weren't serving God, but rather their own appetites.

Now, I hadn't met ALL the people on the list, but I'd met several, and knew people who

knew others on the list. From what I'd seen, these people weren't perfect, but they

were performing in a more godly fashion than lcm was. So, if SOMEBODY was "off The Word",

I had a pretty reliable sense of who it was. That was Spring of 1989.

In Summer of 1989, I went to the ROA. I figured one of two things would happen.

One, hq would announce regret, contrition, and a plan to walk the straight and narrow

like they had not been- and I'd be there when they said it (this was pretty unlikely but possible).

Two, that hq would continue its present course, and this would be my last chance to be

on-grounds, buy things at the twi bookstore, and so on (this is what I expected.)

While I was there, I also had a week to listen to the people at the main podium, and all

the people who weren't, and could get a lot more information that way.

Well, the evidence was considerable before that week, but by the end, the evidence was

pretty compelling. hq was planning on doing whatever they wanted, and slapping the label

"godly" on it. So, when that week ended, we left the grounds, and that was a pretty final end.

Of course, since my entire state was, in effect, excommunicated by the holy see of twi,

we all stayed together as a convenient unit for some time.

[outandabout]

I guess a major turning point came when our twig leader and his wife left(who had both been in our wedding and the wife was at the birth of our child). The branch leader called us up to inform us that they were gone and he would now be our fellowship coordinator.

Soon after, I heard that our former twig leader was running a non-Way fellowship and I decided to go see. (depite being afraid that the Devil would cause me to be in a car wreck on the way there) Everyone there seemed happy, not guilt-ridden about being "cop-outs."

Then I asked for copies of the 30-page letter, John Lynn's 3-hour Overview tape, a tape of R.Dubofsky's critique of Athletes of the Spirit, and the infamous Adultery Paper.

Well, after reading and listening to all of that, I was GONE and gone for good.

[excathedra]

definitely a corps meeting at the limb after poo poo paper etc

i believe we were listening to a tape from the big poop himself psychogeer

he was blaming the way corps people of usa for the collapse or something of the way ministry

i started to cry and buy into it and agree i had been very bad (how, i couldn't tell you)

and joe and nancy fair and ralph graham starting saying to me that i hadn't done anything wrong -- like, why am i believing him (and i always hated the azzhoe)

i suddenly realized OHMY YOU ARE RIGHT !!!!

--

the icing was that we were told at that same meeting not to tell "our" twig and branch people about this meeting -- which we immediately did --

so that was a good turning point -- i'm simplifying it, but it does stand out in my mind

[outandabout]

Yeah, I remember that tape from C Geer. Nothing but condemnation and blame.

[chockfull]

Yeah, I remember that tape from C Geer. Nothing but condemnation and blame.

If you've never read the "Passing of the Patriarch" documents, they are on this site here -

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/waydale/waydale-miscellaneous/passing-of-the-patriarch.html

It's a hilarious read of a political cluster **** and Geer's mammoth ego combined. That seems to be a common thread in TWI leadership over the years. A puffed up head beyond all recognition.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

...I suppose it was when I heard that martindumb wanted all the twig leaders to report weekly who was "faithful and who wasn't"...I said aloud at the meeting..."you gotta be kidding me!"...and I got nasty stares...I started looking for the exit door about then.

[Nottawayfer]

I was thinking back to 1983, when I took my first PFAL class. I worked nights, so I sat through the class at the Twig coordinator's house during the day. I was the lonely student. Hearing all the blather bored me to tears, but I didn't want to "dis" God. I truly believed they had a tremendous knowledge of the Bible. I was completely ignorant of the Bible, and I hungered for some truth in my life. I remember the 12th session ended up being one where I was alone (kind of dumb IMHO). They invited grads to the 12th session, and I was so nervous. I felt like I was going on stage. I remember thinking I wanted to bolt out the door any minute.

I no longer regret my involvement in TWI, but I do wonder what path my life would have taken had I bolted out the door that day.

[So_crates]

For me there were also a couple of ah-ha moments:

1. After a year of abundance sharing I had lost my professional job and was back to doing menial labor. Upon going to the leadership to findout what was wrong, I was told to read Christians Should be Prosperous. Further discussions withthe leadership lead to an accusation of me not being a joyful giver. The conversation went like this:

"Your not giving joyfully."

"How would you know?"

"I found a $20 bill wadded up in the back of the horn of plenty."

"Are you sure that was me?"

"Yah."

"Your absolutely sure that was me?"

"Yah, I'm positive."

"Odd, I always pay with a check."

2. Just before the above, I had worked at a temp agency. When I got my last check from my professional job, I realized it wouldn't cover abundance sharing and food. God is supposed to be sure our needs are met when we abunantly share, right? Well, I wrote the check out for the abundance sharing expecting the check from the temp agency to arrive the next day. Next day, no check. I didn't eat for two days (it was the weekend) waiting for the temp agency office to open. When I got there, they told me they sent it to an address I lived at years before. I had to argue with them and threaten them with the division of hours and labor to get the money.

3. I asked the branch leader what I was doing wrong. He told me I needed a $20 an hour job. I asked him how you went about geting those and in what area was those available. He hemmed and hawed and told me he was sending me to the twig leader for that answer. I went to the twig leader, told him the branch leader sent me, and laid out the situation. His answer: "I don't know."

4. Years later, after the great falling away under Martindale, I was in a steep depression. I mean the Ministry"s advertising campaign was Wait Until You See The Great Life God Has For You, right? WEll, still ma lot of struggling a lot of unfullfilled wishes, certainly not a life I would say, Loook at what God has done for me. Upon asking where this abundant life we've heard so much about was, the man of God responded: "You got tricked."

AS I said before, its a sick joke: chase this carrot, hitchhike 12 miles or walk an hour and a half to get to twig, obey the man of God without question, spend your life studying and witnessing, and then when the whole house of card comes tumbling to the floor, they deliver the perfect punchline: "You got tricked."

SoCrates

[OldSkool]

AS I said before, its a sick joke: chase this carrot, hitchhike 12 miles or walk an hour and a half to get to twig, obey the man of God without question, spend your life studying and witnessing, and then when the whole house of card comes tumbling to the floor, they deliver the perfect punchline: "You got tricked."

SoCrates

Poetic, in a twisted way. Getting tricked by the people who are supposed to be exposing the trickster...sums it up for me too.