When I attended the seminar on explaining What Happened - after POP, etc. That's the first time I heard the teachings on Mark and Avoid. It was so off the Word, I exited. Knew then twi had turned from a wonderful fellowship to a cult, and wanted no part of it.
The day when, sitting in a dazed fog amid the ruins of what had been my life, I was told" the fact you have been diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis means that GOD is punishing your for not following leadership's direction during the trial"
This from the ministry who had comforted me (NOTE THIS IS A POSITIVE I AM POSTING ABOUT PFAL HERE) with the knowledge God does not cause illness to punish people.
It was the final shattering straw that brought the house of cards down around my ears. My departure was that day- the departure didn't resonate with as much pain as for many of you because it was just one more thing on a plate already overflowing
when T*m H*rr*cks, the region coordinator told me that he didn't need to work the Word, if the WayAP class was good enough for the Trustees, it was good enough for him...
@ 2 years ago, I went to a "new church" for a womens/moms meeting.
There, in the foyer, was the most beautiful statue of Jesus washing the disciples feet.
There it occured to me, as a leader, I was not willing to wash anyones feet................
above the santuary doors it read "service" "humility".........
I felt as if I had been punched in the stomache. Nobody in a leadership postition lately I knew of, had any of these qualities..........let alone myself.
Thus began my search (in heart) for more and for answers.
In '85 at an 'open' meeting at HQ, Craig yelled about reading newspapers, and told everyone that we didn't need them and that HE would tell us what to think. And he wasn't joking.
For me, there were several ah-ha! moments, but when I realized that I trusted the teaching of a man who practiced error (who was a serial adulterer at minimum), I reminded myself that practial error always leads to doctrinal error. Something has to be stinking big time, and I've had ammonia up my nose for a long time. I went to my last Advanced Class Special in November 2002. It was the most boring meeting (remember all of the foundational crap rehashed?). I left twi 2 weeks later because I didn't want to lie to God or myself anylonger.
I was in the apprentice corps. My moment of zen came when I found out that in residence I would be expected to leave my young daughter in the care of the Way and its leadership while I was continually kept busy doing (sometimes dangerous) corps "assignments" like going L.E.A.D. and hitchhiking across country and back to do so. I realized in an instant of time that I did not trust them with the life of my child. That was my que to exit stage left. That was back in 85 or 86. Never been sorry a day since I left.
I DID have a desire about 3 years ago to make it back to one more Rock of Ages, just to take it's temperature and see what was up. This only because I, like many of you, had fond memories of the Rock. So I searched the internet trying to find info on the Rock. That was when I stumbled upon the fact that the Rock had been cancelled, along with all the other "enlightening" updates on the doings of TWI over the last 20 years. Needless to say, my eyes popped WIDE open, and I probably spend about a month doing nothing in my spare time but reading up on all the s*it that had taken place since I left. I was so thankful I didn't go into the crops. So thankful.
I think I've said this before, but what's one more time?
When I heard about John Schoenheit's firing from the Research Dept. and then actually read the paper, I realized the cover-up had begun. Why fire a guy for simply stating in a paper that adultery is sin? Duh. Seemed like a no-brainer for a "Christian" organization. And then fire/demote anybody who admitted to actually reading the thing????? What??? Last time I looked this was still America and I can read any darn thing I won't to. And it ain't nobody elses business. I pretty much figured that was the beginning of the end.
The funny thing is, I didn't know, at that time, that VPW was the prime offender. I knew that adultery was rampant among certain "leadership," and I thought that's what John was addressing. That along with the "secret teaching" that it's ok, as long as you can "handle" it.
Took me a few years to realize that VPW himself started it. Whoa, what a shocker that was. For me, I started questioning if anything I had learned about the bible from him, and his "ministry" was true. Now, here I am 20 years later, still trying to put some of the pieces together. Hopefully, it won't take others that long.
There were many, many "bumps" in the road, but the final eye-opener was:
I went to THE meeting where they told us Craig was being hit with the Allen lawsuit. They wouldn't tell us what the specific charges were, stating we didn't need to put that lying garbage in our minds. We were told that Craig messed up, but that this was really an attack on US, the believers. Huh????
I actually defended Craig at the meeting ( :blink: ) but right after I left I realized that I was tired of being treated like an idiot, and I went online looking for anything I could find on the lawsuit. What I found was WayDale (thank god!!!) and a whole bunch of people just like me: hurt, frustrated, angry, and thinking that the problems in their area were isolated issues.
Once it hit me that the way's problems were systemic, and, for the most part, started by VP, I was ready to walk.
Sorry, about my grammar. This was one of my first post here and was nervous and probaly trembling.
After thinking, what am I going back too?
I was put on 6month probation, while I was engaded and in the middle of wedding plans. I had my dress and his ring and was in the middle of counseling with Iowa LC...( I loved them)My best friend (believer) had cancer. She wanted to be my maid-of-honour. It was her hearts greatest desire before she had to go for c-stem transplant.
I was told by my BC I was put on the probation because of anything happened to her while preparing for wedding or for some reason she could not be in the wedding,THAT IT WOULD EFFECT THE BELEIVING OF THE WORD IN MY STATE AND IN THE AREA I WAS GOING TO BE MARRIED IN. Also, they were very *%^#*ed off that I didnt not come to them first .I told my friend she could as long as HER HUSBAND thought it was ok.He was thrilled for her. I even scheduled the wedding before her Transplant.She was the heathiest she had been in 2 years.She so wanted to celebrate the new love in my life.The day she told the co-ordinator she was standing up in my wedding, that night I got the call...My heart hurts for those who believe the lies and motives behind this awful corporation. I thought I was in Gods ministry like most of you. I almost went into the family corp in 95. I was very commited. I did everything to go back in, but they kept moving the hoops too. I was told to ABS and write a letter every month covering what I was learning from SST and Way rag. I did..then I met with Limb co-ordintator (who is now one of the VP's)he said, he didnt want letters every month and I had to rewrite everything because my letters were filled with emotions. I was told no contact with anyone in.including my fiance. Every Monday I called hospital to check on my friend (nurses station) I found out she feel asleep by calling the hospital. I was not told anything.I sat in my bedroom and cryed a river for hours...I saw my exfiance a week later after being put on leave..that was the last time..We cried the whole time.I could ony visit him while we were dating every 3 wks. I had to fill out a form saying where I staying , phone #s, co-ordinators name.Everytime I went.He lived in the state west of me, 3 hrs away. I had to hand it in 3 wks before I left.
I moved in with my sister to get out debt. Debt was not alowed and they wanted us to pay cash for the wedding.I was to move to Iowa in four months after being put on leave..I was actualy on leave for 8mo..then I thought to myself "WHAT am I going back too..Meanwhile, I typed in THE WAY in the search, and I found Courtright fellowship website. I almost fell off my chair at work...I knew I was lied to at that point about the Household of God...never again
I was WOW Vet in 80, or 81 I guess, and a normally nice and likeable branch leader stood up in a twig leaders/Wow meeting and began frothing at the mouth with vein popping, snot slinging reproof, publically humilliating of most of the WOW's there. The sin? Not enough ABS.
As the spit and mucous was flying , I thought to myself, "this just isn't Godly, what are these Corps people being taught."
Like you stated Patriot...it was a process...one thing and then another. Really for me it was at the least a 10 year process, intensifying after 5 years, and finally manifesting in another 5.
Specifically there was a point where I was pricked to my soul. It was when I read the following excerpt from the book From Beirut to Jerusalem.
The context is in light of how modern day Israel dealt with the Holocaust until the Holocaust was resurrected in 1961 at the trial of the Nazi war criminal Adolf Otto Eichmann.
"..In those day we barely learned about the Holocaust in school. The feeling, the whole atmosphere, was that the future must triumph over the past. All of us, parents & kids, tried to cover up what had happened."
Another quote from the same book: "And so...the play went on...Israeli's (TWI) talking to the world about their 'enlightened' occupation, and then doing anything they had to do, behind closed doors, to keep the Palestinians (GSCers) quiet."
OMG, did those words hurt me. What was in my mind? "How can I face my children later when they find out the facts/truth about TWI?" That got me on the road to very serious and real life changes regarding TWI. And yet I stayed in TWI about 2 more years after that soul pierce.
Geez..now my mind is rolling with other incidents....but I'll stop here.
My first red flag (which there were plenty of other incidents that should have gotten my attention) was the continued emphasis by upper leadership on numbers, numbers, and more numbers of: people, subscriptions and abundant sharing. It was always us assistants (and coordinators) that were somehow failing when not as many people got way rag subscriptions or the boring sts tapes.
Also,several situations presented itself where long standing believers who were having problems had to figure it out for themselves.
I also remember getting concerned when things shifted from the integrity of the Word to the integrity of the ministry (something lcm started but rosie continued.)
An hour or so after posting I realized some may take the following quote with my italicized inserts the wrong way.
Another quote from the same book: "And so...the play went on...Israeli's (TWI) talking to the world about their 'enlightened' occupation, and then doing anything they had to do, behind closed doors, to keep the Palestinians (GSCers) quiet."
I am not meaning that TWI is Israel or that GSCers are Palestinians! (After all I have been/am both.) If my memory serves me correctly, the context of this sentence is after the Israeli's had massacred some Palestinians, Israel promoted their enlightened occupation (based on murder) and tried to shut the mouths of the Palestinians. So that is the comparison....
Apologies if I offended anyone in this regard. :unsure:
I've appreciated seeing some sort of time put to your specific incidents. For those who indicate "about 2 years ago" or "recently" it illustrates to those who may be lurking that twi isn't "kinder and gentler" or "we don't do that anymore." For those who share that such incidents occurred over a decade ago, or longer, it shows to those who may still see what you saw, the rotten habits and practices have been around longer than just since LCM's "confession" of an affair.
Thanks for your posting! Again, specific incidents or situations that were the turning point thinking all was good with twi, to "maybe I should be more careful" which was the first step to declaring independence.
[i also remember getting concerned when things shifted from the integrity of the Word to the integrity of the ministry (something lcm started but rosie continued.)
Yeah Penguin, that is that subtle morphing process. If God is his Word[A] (John 1), and "the ministry is the Word [C]& the Word is the ministry",.......
If A=B, and B=C, then A=C. The ministry becomes their God to which they worship. That's why you hear Rosie at times say "Protect the ministry", etc.
A church, or a ministry, is supposed to be a means, a vehicle to HELP get you to the destination (God), not be the cultish destination.
I was on the way back from a showing of that movie where Martindale danced. I realized that the Way had become a big waste of time. I did not attend ministry functions above local level after that. I still continued with the local fellowship until I heard about the womanizing among the leadership. I had only stayed with the Way because I thought that was where I could learn about God. When I realized it was a sham, I was gone. I didn't have second thoughts.
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Suda
When I attended the seminar on explaining What Happened - after POP, etc. That's the first time I heard the teachings on Mark and Avoid. It was so off the Word, I exited. Knew then twi had turned from a wonderful fellowship to a cult, and wanted no part of it.
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templelady
The day when, sitting in a dazed fog amid the ruins of what had been my life, I was told" the fact you have been diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis means that GOD is punishing your for not following leadership's direction during the trial"
This from the ministry who had comforted me (NOTE THIS IS A POSITIVE I AM POSTING ABOUT PFAL HERE) with the knowledge God does not cause illness to punish people.
It was the final shattering straw that brought the house of cards down around my ears. My departure was that day- the departure didn't resonate with as much pain as for many of you because it was just one more thing on a plate already overflowing
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Oakspear
when T*m H*rr*cks, the region coordinator told me that he didn't need to work the Word, if the WayAP class was good enough for the Trustees, it was good enough for him...
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bliss
@ 2 years ago, I went to a "new church" for a womens/moms meeting.
There, in the foyer, was the most beautiful statue of Jesus washing the disciples feet.
There it occured to me, as a leader, I was not willing to wash anyones feet................
above the santuary doors it read "service" "humility".........
I felt as if I had been punched in the stomache. Nobody in a leadership postition lately I knew of, had any of these qualities..........let alone myself.
Thus began my search (in heart) for more and for answers.
Thank you God for showing me the exit.
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hiway29
In '85 at an 'open' meeting at HQ, Craig yelled about reading newspapers, and told everyone that we didn't need them and that HE would tell us what to think. And he wasn't joking.
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Nottawayfer
Hiway29,
Wow! That is so typical of that lunatic.
For me, there were several ah-ha! moments, but when I realized that I trusted the teaching of a man who practiced error (who was a serial adulterer at minimum), I reminded myself that practial error always leads to doctrinal error. Something has to be stinking big time, and I've had ammonia up my nose for a long time. I went to my last Advanced Class Special in November 2002. It was the most boring meeting (remember all of the foundational crap rehashed?). I left twi 2 weeks later because I didn't want to lie to God or myself anylonger.
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nolongerlurking
I was in the apprentice corps. My moment of zen came when I found out that in residence I would be expected to leave my young daughter in the care of the Way and its leadership while I was continually kept busy doing (sometimes dangerous) corps "assignments" like going L.E.A.D. and hitchhiking across country and back to do so. I realized in an instant of time that I did not trust them with the life of my child. That was my que to exit stage left. That was back in 85 or 86. Never been sorry a day since I left.
I DID have a desire about 3 years ago to make it back to one more Rock of Ages, just to take it's temperature and see what was up. This only because I, like many of you, had fond memories of the Rock. So I searched the internet trying to find info on the Rock. That was when I stumbled upon the fact that the Rock had been cancelled, along with all the other "enlightening" updates on the doings of TWI over the last 20 years. Needless to say, my eyes popped WIDE open, and I probably spend about a month doing nothing in my spare time but reading up on all the s*it that had taken place since I left. I was so thankful I didn't go into the crops. So thankful.
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Belle
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Tom Strange
so Belle... have you added "Greasespot Radio Star" to your resume?
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ex10
I think I've said this before, but what's one more time?
When I heard about John Schoenheit's firing from the Research Dept. and then actually read the paper, I realized the cover-up had begun. Why fire a guy for simply stating in a paper that adultery is sin? Duh. Seemed like a no-brainer for a "Christian" organization. And then fire/demote anybody who admitted to actually reading the thing????? What??? Last time I looked this was still America and I can read any darn thing I won't to. And it ain't nobody elses business. I pretty much figured that was the beginning of the end.
The funny thing is, I didn't know, at that time, that VPW was the prime offender. I knew that adultery was rampant among certain "leadership," and I thought that's what John was addressing. That along with the "secret teaching" that it's ok, as long as you can "handle" it.
Took me a few years to realize that VPW himself started it. Whoa, what a shocker that was. For me, I started questioning if anything I had learned about the bible from him, and his "ministry" was true. Now, here I am 20 years later, still trying to put some of the pieces together. Hopefully, it won't take others that long.
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Bug on the Wall
There were many, many "bumps" in the road, but the final eye-opener was:
I went to THE meeting where they told us Craig was being hit with the Allen lawsuit. They wouldn't tell us what the specific charges were, stating we didn't need to put that lying garbage in our minds. We were told that Craig messed up, but that this was really an attack on US, the believers. Huh????
I actually defended Craig at the meeting ( :blink: ) but right after I left I realized that I was tired of being treated like an idiot, and I went online looking for anything I could find on the lawsuit. What I found was WayDale (thank god!!!) and a whole bunch of people just like me: hurt, frustrated, angry, and thinking that the problems in their area were isolated issues.
Once it hit me that the way's problems were systemic, and, for the most part, started by VP, I was ready to walk.
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likeaneagle
My Story:
Sorry, about my grammar. This was one of my first post here and was nervous and probaly trembling.
After thinking, what am I going back too?
I was put on 6month probation, while I was engaded and in the middle of wedding plans. I had my dress and his ring and was in the middle of counseling with Iowa LC...( I loved them)My best friend (believer) had cancer. She wanted to be my maid-of-honour. It was her hearts greatest desire before she had to go for c-stem transplant.
I was told by my BC I was put on the probation because of anything happened to her while preparing for wedding or for some reason she could not be in the wedding,THAT IT WOULD EFFECT THE BELEIVING OF THE WORD IN MY STATE AND IN THE AREA I WAS GOING TO BE MARRIED IN. Also, they were very *%^#*ed off that I didnt not come to them first .I told my friend she could as long as HER HUSBAND thought it was ok.He was thrilled for her. I even scheduled the wedding before her Transplant.She was the heathiest she had been in 2 years.She so wanted to celebrate the new love in my life.The day she told the co-ordinator she was standing up in my wedding, that night I got the call...My heart hurts for those who believe the lies and motives behind this awful corporation. I thought I was in Gods ministry like most of you. I almost went into the family corp in 95. I was very commited. I did everything to go back in, but they kept moving the hoops too. I was told to ABS and write a letter every month covering what I was learning from SST and Way rag. I did..then I met with Limb co-ordintator (who is now one of the VP's)he said, he didnt want letters every month and I had to rewrite everything because my letters were filled with emotions. I was told no contact with anyone in.including my fiance. Every Monday I called hospital to check on my friend (nurses station) I found out she feel asleep by calling the hospital. I was not told anything.I sat in my bedroom and cryed a river for hours...I saw my exfiance a week later after being put on leave..that was the last time..We cried the whole time.I could ony visit him while we were dating every 3 wks. I had to fill out a form saying where I staying , phone #s, co-ordinators name.Everytime I went.He lived in the state west of me, 3 hrs away. I had to hand it in 3 wks before I left.
I moved in with my sister to get out debt. Debt was not alowed and they wanted us to pay cash for the wedding.I was to move to Iowa in four months after being put on leave..I was actualy on leave for 8mo..then I thought to myself "WHAT am I going back too..Meanwhile, I typed in THE WAY in the search, and I found Courtright fellowship website. I almost fell off my chair at work...I knew I was lied to at that point about the Household of God...never again
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Goey
I was WOW Vet in 80, or 81 I guess, and a normally nice and likeable branch leader stood up in a twig leaders/Wow meeting and began frothing at the mouth with vein popping, snot slinging reproof, publically humilliating of most of the WOW's there. The sin? Not enough ABS.
As the spit and mucous was flying , I thought to myself, "this just isn't Godly, what are these Corps people being taught."
That was the beginning of the end for me.
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hiway29
my God, like an eagle....just when I think I've heard it all !!!
I was going to comment on it, but find I'm speechless.
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likeaneagle
Highway-
You havent heard it all, there is more, but I refrain from putting it on the boards.
THank you
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2life
The MOMENT...
the most defining MOMENT....
When I heard Ralph D. use the works... "Vic the D ick"....
Don't know why.......maybe comming from Ralph.................
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I Love Bagpipes
Like you stated Patriot...it was a process...one thing and then another. Really for me it was at the least a 10 year process, intensifying after 5 years, and finally manifesting in another 5.
Specifically there was a point where I was pricked to my soul. It was when I read the following excerpt from the book From Beirut to Jerusalem.
The context is in light of how modern day Israel dealt with the Holocaust until the Holocaust was resurrected in 1961 at the trial of the Nazi war criminal Adolf Otto Eichmann.
"..In those day we barely learned about the Holocaust in school. The feeling, the whole atmosphere, was that the future must triumph over the past. All of us, parents & kids, tried to cover up what had happened."
Another quote from the same book: "And so...the play went on...Israeli's (TWI) talking to the world about their 'enlightened' occupation, and then doing anything they had to do, behind closed doors, to keep the Palestinians (GSCers) quiet."
OMG, did those words hurt me. What was in my mind? "How can I face my children later when they find out the facts/truth about TWI?" That got me on the road to very serious and real life changes regarding TWI. And yet I stayed in TWI about 2 more years after that soul pierce.
Geez..now my mind is rolling with other incidents....but I'll stop here.
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penguin
My first red flag (which there were plenty of other incidents that should have gotten my attention) was the continued emphasis by upper leadership on numbers, numbers, and more numbers of: people, subscriptions and abundant sharing. It was always us assistants (and coordinators) that were somehow failing when not as many people got way rag subscriptions or the boring sts tapes.
Also,several situations presented itself where long standing believers who were having problems had to figure it out for themselves.
I also remember getting concerned when things shifted from the integrity of the Word to the integrity of the ministry (something lcm started but rosie continued.)
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I Love Bagpipes
Oh my! :blink:
An hour or so after posting I realized some may take the following quote with my italicized inserts the wrong way.
I am not meaning that TWI is Israel or that GSCers are Palestinians! (After all I have been/am both.) If my memory serves me correctly, the context of this sentence is after the Israeli's had massacred some Palestinians, Israel promoted their enlightened occupation (based on murder) and tried to shut the mouths of the Palestinians. So that is the comparison....
Apologies if I offended anyone in this regard. :unsure:
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Patriot
To those posting on this thread:
I've appreciated seeing some sort of time put to your specific incidents. For those who indicate "about 2 years ago" or "recently" it illustrates to those who may be lurking that twi isn't "kinder and gentler" or "we don't do that anymore." For those who share that such incidents occurred over a decade ago, or longer, it shows to those who may still see what you saw, the rotten habits and practices have been around longer than just since LCM's "confession" of an affair.
Thanks for your posting! Again, specific incidents or situations that were the turning point thinking all was good with twi, to "maybe I should be more careful" which was the first step to declaring independence.
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Patriot
[i also remember getting concerned when things shifted from the integrity of the Word to the integrity of the ministry (something lcm started but rosie continued.)
Yeah Penguin, that is that subtle morphing process. If God is his Word[A] (John 1), and "the ministry is the Word [C]& the Word is the ministry",.......
If A=B, and B=C, then A=C. The ministry becomes their God to which they worship. That's why you hear Rosie at times say "Protect the ministry", etc.
A church, or a ministry, is supposed to be a means, a vehicle to HELP get you to the destination (God), not be the cultish destination.
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100% Free
For me, there wasn't a specific point. It was a gradual dawning.
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smarter
I was on the way back from a showing of that movie where Martindale danced. I realized that the Way had become a big waste of time. I did not attend ministry functions above local level after that. I still continued with the local fellowship until I heard about the womanizing among the leadership. I had only stayed with the Way because I thought that was where I could learn about God. When I realized it was a sham, I was gone. I didn't have second thoughts.
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Ham
was there a specific point..
It was from day one..
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