Since leaving twi, I don't believe that my believing can affect anything. I do believe in God's power and that prayer affects the outcome of things because we seek Him, not because we believe. I try not to tell God what to do. I let His will be done. I don't believe devil spirits are hovering around to trip me up because I stand on the Word either. I believe that we go through things some times to make us stronger. Bad and good happen because it just does. I try not to over-analyze things too much anymore.
Because Satan has his own fistful of spiritual Monopoly money and gets to spend it, too?
Since you're not dead, starving, or homeless, it may be that God really IS taking care of you--just in the most efficient manner instead of the flashiest.
Perhaps being promoted would subject you to new stresses you never even thought of, took you away from your family for extended periods of time, throw you into a higher tax bracket, whatever.
As Garth Brooks sang, "Some of life's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers."
I just read "Do not blame God ". by John Lynn John S and Mark G.
it covers alot of what your aksing from their bible take on the subject. It really is quite helpful if you want to hear what the bible says about such issues in life.
life is a strange business , i do not always get it. a lady I know had her family member run over her own small child while backing out of the drive way. an accident.
I have heard out rageous storys of peole overcoming such evil and i do belive that is what it is evil determined to hurt those who love God.
For me i cope with the reality some day it will be better for those who call on the Lord as our Saviour. forever the hope for me.
Till then i wont deny God , i pray and i do realize bad things may happen i try not to get so pitiful i can not help the many others who are floating in this same boat of life.
This is great, it really is....maybe I should be a little more specific in the exact situation, for which I don't blame God - I only want to understand.
It's all about child custody and a monster of an ex-husband who is hell-bent on revenge for leaving him.
My child is a teenager now and has spent the last half of her life caught in the middle of it all.
The way it is now, I've lost all legal custody (whoever has the most expensive attorney in court WILL prevail) and my time with my child is determined by the whimes of my ex and nothing else.
His ex-TWI buddies corral the situation with rumors and gossip which don't bother me, what bothers me is there is no consideration from any of these people for the child.
Please don't suggest to get the law involved, they could give a rat's foot, they really could.
To not be involved in my child's life is probably the most heart-breaking thing I've ever experienced - ever.
As far as my child's voice - remember, there's a "monster" of an ex that has solidified his long-suits such as manipulation, cohortion, and lying and bullying....I'm really surprised he wasn't in a TWI leadership role!
That's funny! Thanks for this insight. I use to be know as the "queen of condemnation" trust me, I don't expect God to be at my beck and call or anything like that. He gave us these wonderful brains for a good reason.
My point is...well, you can see it in my last post.
I am so sorry to hear about this situation. Prayer. That's all I can say. It does work.
Example: I was in TWI wholeheartedly for 20 years. I spent 5 years on staff at HQ. I thought I was where God wanted me. I was convinced I would NEVER leave the organization. My sister and my mom prayed for me faithfully FOR TEN YEARS. God finally got through to my heart to help me realize what I was involved with and it took me about 2 years to finally leave after the first prick He gave me in my heart.
When people are involved in situations, it's impossible to expect God to control their minds and the situation. Trust Him. Pray a lot. Ask God to give you the words and to direct your paths to see an outcome in the bet interest of your child. I know waiting is hard especially in this kind of situation. But you are at the mercy of the situation. I will prayu with you for your child's heart and protection of her mind and the softness of her heart to Him no matter where she is.
This whole mess is one of the first steps that led to my finally "leaving". Also a good 20 years of involvement and serious commitment to TWI, until someone that the judge appointed to evaluate my child, homelife, etc. reported to the judge that I was involved in a very controlling denomination that would have an adverse affect on my child in the end.
Prayer and speaking in tongues I do a lot of, every time I think about I child I speak in tongues for her.
And I am aware that I am not Jesus Christ, although I have Christ in me, I am not Abraham, but want the faithfulness of him.
It is my heart's desire to walk as the examples of the Word - for instance the infamous "believer's hall of fame" in Hebrews. What got them through everything they went through?
It is my heart's desire to walk as the examples of the Word - for instance the infamous "believer's hall of fame" in Hebrews. What got them through everything they went through?
I think it was the fact that they knew they could trust God, and He was a personal God to them. Our teaching in TWI sorely lacked in the area of recognizing a personal relationship with Him. I only was taught a cold, sterile one-way relationship while I was in TWI. The other reason that I think that those who were mentioned because of their believing was because they learned that their trust in God would yield His will being done, not always what they wanted done or thought should be done. I know in your situation that it is hard because you know that your daughter is better with you, but your trust in God that He will take care of her no matter where she is will be the comfort for you. Let Him take care of her while you can't. In the meantime, you can only trust Him to lead you in the situation. Ask Him to lead you. That was new for me also because in TWI we did what we wanted and then told God to bless it.
Funny thing there, whatever we wanted to do, i.e. vacation for the family, buy a car, start a new hobby, fight for child custody....leadership always fought us and told us that if we went against their word, God WOULDN'T bless us. One of the reasons my husband and I eloped.....of all things!
Funny thing there, whatever we wanted to do, i.e. vacation for the family, buy a car, start a new hobby, fight for child custody....leadership always fought us and told us that if we went against their word, God WOULDN'T bless us. One of the reasons my husband and I eloped.....of all things!
As a person who has fought on behalf of my child pro se against the ex's lawyer and won, I have a couple of questions just to clarify your situation:
1.) You lost custody, and part of the argument against you was that you were involved in TWI at the time?
2.) Are you still in?
3.) Do you have visitation?
4.) What other facets were brought out in the evaluation?
I just want to understand it better before I can speak to specifics. You can PM me if you'd prefer to do this off the board. Family court is a horrible place to be, but you have to be absolutely prepared, because a child's life is at stake.
I talked about this on the Becoming Agnostic thread...And it's my opinion - but I figure it's relevant here so bears repeating. Luke 13: 1- 5 is an account of some people asking Jesus about the Galileans that Pilate had killed [and it appears they were killed during their sacrifices or worship] judging by Jesus' response it appears they were basically asking why that happened. Jesus even brings up another tradegy of a tower in Siloam falling on 18 people. But I don't see that Jesus tells why these awful things happened. He goes on to say "unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." I tend to think the Bible gives us a lot more info on WHAT God wants us to do - rather then WHY things happen...We live in a fallen world - it's not the way things are always going to be.
A more useful question might be: Why do people continue to believe that there is any connection between BEING good (or bad) and the kinds of things that HAPPEN to them?
Another question might be: When people have a belief about what should happen to them and that believe is repeatedly at odds with their experience, why do they hold to their belief and not form another one that fits more closely with their experience?
I don't claim to know the answers to any of these questions.
I was reading/posting last night on the Assume for a moment there is no God thread in Doctrine, kept thinking about stuff - went to bed - woke up and read Ecclesiastes. I was drawn back to this thread...
Welcome to Grease Spot rvrdiver!!!!!
After I left TWI two books I've read over and over are Job and Ecclesiastes. What I gather from these books can be a let down sometimes - maybe because a reality pill is hard to swallow - in other words real life as opposed to TWI's view: 1. There's a lot going on "behind the scenes" that we know nothing about - but has a big impact on our lives. 2. we are usually not given the reason for our suffering and woes. 3. apart from God life IS meaningless. 4. the Bible is more about what we should do NOW than why stuff is happening - see Eccl. 12:13 the conclusion of the whole matter - fear God and keep His commandments.
...I don't mean to sound so dismal - keep in mind another great and mystifying topic - prayer. I believe in the sovereignty of God and that there are things He "orchestrates" [whatever that means] to go His way. But He gave us freedom of will and the Bible speaks a bunch about the power of prayer and that prayer has value...So - who's to say that what can make a difference in our unique situations? Perhaps our Christian life is like a partnership with God. Maybe sometimes He purposes that what will change the tide in a circumstance IS our prayers! :)
As someone else posted earlier, I am at the place where I try to say "thy will be done" every day, instead of this is what I want you to bless God. This is by no means an easy place to be in some of life's situations. Lots easier said than done.
If we watch carefully as life progresses in situations that seem dire, if we continue with a humble mindset we sometimes see the purpose..........although in this type of situation that you are in rvrdriver, I don't see a true godly purpose of someone keeping you from the child you bore and loved, and why God would allow that to happen.
A peaceful place that I have arrived at, sometimes, after these situations I have found that I have grown and learned alot about life.....think that comes with age too :unsure: and I utilize that new found understanding to guide my children first and foremost through this life............and also try to help others in any way that I can when life seems to be getting the best of them........
Probably not any good answers in all that but just a perspective. Welcome to GSC
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Nottawayfer
Since leaving twi, I don't believe that my believing can affect anything. I do believe in God's power and that prayer affects the outcome of things because we seek Him, not because we believe. I try not to tell God what to do. I let His will be done. I don't believe devil spirits are hovering around to trip me up because I stand on the Word either. I believe that we go through things some times to make us stronger. Bad and good happen because it just does. I try not to over-analyze things too much anymore.
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Zixar
Because Satan has his own fistful of spiritual Monopoly money and gets to spend it, too?
Since you're not dead, starving, or homeless, it may be that God really IS taking care of you--just in the most efficient manner instead of the flashiest.
Perhaps being promoted would subject you to new stresses you never even thought of, took you away from your family for extended periods of time, throw you into a higher tax bracket, whatever.
As Garth Brooks sang, "Some of life's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers."
God bless!
Zix
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pond
I just read "Do not blame God ". by John Lynn John S and Mark G.
it covers alot of what your aksing from their bible take on the subject. It really is quite helpful if you want to hear what the bible says about such issues in life.
life is a strange business , i do not always get it. a lady I know had her family member run over her own small child while backing out of the drive way. an accident.
I have heard out rageous storys of peole overcoming such evil and i do belive that is what it is evil determined to hurt those who love God.
For me i cope with the reality some day it will be better for those who call on the Lord as our Saviour. forever the hope for me.
Till then i wont deny God , i pray and i do realize bad things may happen i try not to get so pitiful i can not help the many others who are floating in this same boat of life.
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rvrdiver
This is great, it really is....maybe I should be a little more specific in the exact situation, for which I don't blame God - I only want to understand.
It's all about child custody and a monster of an ex-husband who is hell-bent on revenge for leaving him.
My child is a teenager now and has spent the last half of her life caught in the middle of it all.
The way it is now, I've lost all legal custody (whoever has the most expensive attorney in court WILL prevail) and my time with my child is determined by the whimes of my ex and nothing else.
His ex-TWI buddies corral the situation with rumors and gossip which don't bother me, what bothers me is there is no consideration from any of these people for the child.
Please don't suggest to get the law involved, they could give a rat's foot, they really could.
To not be involved in my child's life is probably the most heart-breaking thing I've ever experienced - ever.
As far as my child's voice - remember, there's a "monster" of an ex that has solidified his long-suits such as manipulation, cohortion, and lying and bullying....I'm really surprised he wasn't in a TWI leadership role!
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sprawled out
that's the age-old question, isn't it?
maybe god really isn't a micromanager, and doesn't concern himself with every detail of every person's life.
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rvrdiver
Sprawled Out:
That's funny! Thanks for this insight. I use to be know as the "queen of condemnation" trust me, I don't expect God to be at my beck and call or anything like that. He gave us these wonderful brains for a good reason.
My point is...well, you can see it in my last post.
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Nottawayfer
Rvrdiver,
I am so sorry to hear about this situation. Prayer. That's all I can say. It does work.
Example: I was in TWI wholeheartedly for 20 years. I spent 5 years on staff at HQ. I thought I was where God wanted me. I was convinced I would NEVER leave the organization. My sister and my mom prayed for me faithfully FOR TEN YEARS. God finally got through to my heart to help me realize what I was involved with and it took me about 2 years to finally leave after the first prick He gave me in my heart.
When people are involved in situations, it's impossible to expect God to control their minds and the situation. Trust Him. Pray a lot. Ask God to give you the words and to direct your paths to see an outcome in the bet interest of your child. I know waiting is hard especially in this kind of situation. But you are at the mercy of the situation. I will prayu with you for your child's heart and protection of her mind and the softness of her heart to Him no matter where she is.
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rvrdiver
Wayfer Not,
This whole mess is one of the first steps that led to my finally "leaving". Also a good 20 years of involvement and serious commitment to TWI, until someone that the judge appointed to evaluate my child, homelife, etc. reported to the judge that I was involved in a very controlling denomination that would have an adverse affect on my child in the end.
Prayer and speaking in tongues I do a lot of, every time I think about I child I speak in tongues for her.
And I am aware that I am not Jesus Christ, although I have Christ in me, I am not Abraham, but want the faithfulness of him.
It is my heart's desire to walk as the examples of the Word - for instance the infamous "believer's hall of fame" in Hebrews. What got them through everything they went through?
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GarthP2000
And then again, maybe it's all based on one unique yet simple phrase:
"S**t happens."
Keep in mind that the evil, anal-retentive, abusive a-holes don't always get their way either. S**t happens for them too.
Reality can be a pain-in-the-keester in an equal opportunity manner to all concerned.
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Nottawayfer
I think it was the fact that they knew they could trust God, and He was a personal God to them. Our teaching in TWI sorely lacked in the area of recognizing a personal relationship with Him. I only was taught a cold, sterile one-way relationship while I was in TWI. The other reason that I think that those who were mentioned because of their believing was because they learned that their trust in God would yield His will being done, not always what they wanted done or thought should be done. I know in your situation that it is hard because you know that your daughter is better with you, but your trust in God that He will take care of her no matter where she is will be the comfort for you. Let Him take care of her while you can't. In the meantime, you can only trust Him to lead you in the situation. Ask Him to lead you. That was new for me also because in TWI we did what we wanted and then told God to bless it.
Edited to clarify a point. Edit made in bold.
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dmiller
Boy --- ain't THAT the truth!! :(
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rvrdiver
Funny thing there, whatever we wanted to do, i.e. vacation for the family, buy a car, start a new hobby, fight for child custody....leadership always fought us and told us that if we went against their word, God WOULDN'T bless us. One of the reasons my husband and I eloped.....of all things!
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ChasUFarley
Maybe your needs and wants weren't parallel....
OR
Maybe you didn't have getting a promotion on your weekly schedule...
OR
Maybe you didn't ABS enough...
OR
Maybe you weren't up on the Present Truth...
OR
Maybe you aren't in alignment and harmony with your leadership...
OR
Maybe you aren't scantified enought...
OR
Maybe sometimes $ h i t happens.... and it ain't YOU!
:)
Welcome to the Cafe!
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I Love Bagpipes
Showers of hugs/prayers/goodness to you...
wish I could give you a rainbow...
(((((((((((((rrdiver)))))))))))))
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dmiller
Cripes --- proof positive ---- once again ---
TWI SUCKS!! :(
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shazdancer
As a person who has fought on behalf of my child pro se against the ex's lawyer and won, I have a couple of questions just to clarify your situation:
1.) You lost custody, and part of the argument against you was that you were involved in TWI at the time?
2.) Are you still in?
3.) Do you have visitation?
4.) What other facets were brought out in the evaluation?
I just want to understand it better before I can speak to specifics. You can PM me if you'd prefer to do this off the board. Family court is a horrible place to be, but you have to be absolutely prepared, because a child's life is at stake.
Regards,
Shazdancer
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George Aar
Yeah, why do bad things happen to good people (and vise versa)?
Well, there IS the obvious answer...
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T-Bone
I talked about this on the Becoming Agnostic thread...And it's my opinion - but I figure it's relevant here so bears repeating. Luke 13: 1- 5 is an account of some people asking Jesus about the Galileans that Pilate had killed [and it appears they were killed during their sacrifices or worship] judging by Jesus' response it appears they were basically asking why that happened. Jesus even brings up another tradegy of a tower in Siloam falling on 18 people. But I don't see that Jesus tells why these awful things happened. He goes on to say "unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." I tend to think the Bible gives us a lot more info on WHAT God wants us to do - rather then WHY things happen...We live in a fallen world - it's not the way things are always going to be.
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My3Cents
Wrong Question.
A more useful question might be: Why do people continue to believe that there is any connection between BEING good (or bad) and the kinds of things that HAPPEN to them?
Another question might be: When people have a belief about what should happen to them and that believe is repeatedly at odds with their experience, why do they hold to their belief and not form another one that fits more closely with their experience?
I don't claim to know the answers to any of these questions.
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excathedra
just want to say i'm thinking of you rvrdiver and your darling daughter
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T-Bone
I was reading/posting last night on the Assume for a moment there is no God thread in Doctrine, kept thinking about stuff - went to bed - woke up and read Ecclesiastes. I was drawn back to this thread...
Welcome to Grease Spot rvrdiver!!!!!
After I left TWI two books I've read over and over are Job and Ecclesiastes. What I gather from these books can be a let down sometimes - maybe because a reality pill is hard to swallow - in other words real life as opposed to TWI's view: 1. There's a lot going on "behind the scenes" that we know nothing about - but has a big impact on our lives. 2. we are usually not given the reason for our suffering and woes. 3. apart from God life IS meaningless. 4. the Bible is more about what we should do NOW than why stuff is happening - see Eccl. 12:13 the conclusion of the whole matter - fear God and keep His commandments.
...I don't mean to sound so dismal - keep in mind another great and mystifying topic - prayer. I believe in the sovereignty of God and that there are things He "orchestrates" [whatever that means] to go His way. But He gave us freedom of will and the Bible speaks a bunch about the power of prayer and that prayer has value...So - who's to say that what can make a difference in our unique situations? Perhaps our Christian life is like a partnership with God. Maybe sometimes He purposes that what will change the tide in a circumstance IS our prayers! :)
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outofdafog
As someone else posted earlier, I am at the place where I try to say "thy will be done" every day, instead of this is what I want you to bless God. This is by no means an easy place to be in some of life's situations. Lots easier said than done.
If we watch carefully as life progresses in situations that seem dire, if we continue with a humble mindset we sometimes see the purpose..........although in this type of situation that you are in rvrdriver, I don't see a true godly purpose of someone keeping you from the child you bore and loved, and why God would allow that to happen.
A peaceful place that I have arrived at, sometimes, after these situations I have found that I have grown and learned alot about life.....think that comes with age too :unsure:
and I utilize that new found understanding to guide my children first and foremost through this life............and also try to help others in any way that I can when life seems to be getting the best of them........
Probably not any good answers in all that but just a perspective. Welcome to GSC
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