This really hits home for me. One couple, whom I love dearly, have been sold out TWIts and continue to support TWI despite some horrendous treatment, evil "suggestions" from Moynihan and knowing that there are things wrong with what and how TWI teaches. I could write a book on the injustices to this family alone.
Thing is, the wife, according to TWI standards, was a stay at home mom and then stay at home wife. She worked at the limb under Moynihan for a while but, when she needed to have surgery, she had to sign up with a temp agency and try to get a job that she could work at long enough to get health insurance benefits so that they could afford for her to have the surgery.
They had little to nothing in retirement when I left TWI. HECK, they didn't even have a savings account!
The husband is self-employed and rather stubborn about not working for anyone else. They live decently enough, but practically everything they own is a hand me down from his clients or garage sale type stuff. AND it's all living paycheck to paycheck.
He had to have his gall bladder removed and at that time they had just paid off the balance of the hospital bill. Self employed, no insurance, no savings, no retirement, no permanent home.....failing health, approaching early 60's. I wonder what kind of lifestyle they are going to be able to have living off Social Security only....especially if they were one of the ones who waived SS withholdings for years according to TWI suggestion. :unsure:
Belle's right - we are on half pay as clergy and told to believe for the rest. Lessee - as I recall half pay was $165 a month living in Chicago where local rents where in the $2K range - uhh back in the early 80's
Oops - WERE on half pay not ARE - I've been gone a LONG time
..especially if they were one of the ones who waived SS withholdings for years according to TWI suggestion. :unsure:
You can legally waive having SS withheld? I always worked for myself, but never heard of that option. (I put in the whole 14%) Of course many probably kept their window cleaning/contracting money off the books ...
Was it Howard or what's his name Owens that said the retirement plan was to work till you die?
Once again, twi shows that they have not a shred of concern for their people :(
I know one clergyman who, he and his wife served TWI as staff employees for many years. Long story short, they get dropped, kicked to the curb, and have NOTHING....NOTHING....NOTHING....for their retirements. Not sure of their ages, but he is well into his 60's, and unless a big miracle happens, will be working for rent, for the rest of his life. They're still loyal and will refuse ever to go into debt for a house or condo. It's really sad.
Yes, Rhino. I'm not sure when, but TWI had all their staff sign waivers to not have SS withheld from their paychecks. Not sure if you can do that anymore these days and the folks do now have it withheld from what I understand, but by not contributing during those years means less that you get when you qualify.
Perhaps someone with more knowledge and a better memory than mine can weigh in on that one.
I know that, for me, growing up with a banker as a Daddy, I learned the value of money and the importance of compounding interest and saving NOW so that I can live comfortably LATER. My ex didn't have anything saved up, had not a penny to his name when we got married. We lived off my paycheck for six months while he went back through the Police Academy to get back into law enforcement.
I always made more money than he did, but he wanted me to lower my 401K withholding so that we would have more money NOW to live on. I lied and told him I did. It was one of the dumbest things he told me to do. He fought me tooth and nail about buying a house, but once TWI came out with the "we do not have a policy on debt" he was a wee bit more receptive to the idea. I jumped on it and we bought a house very, very quickly.
When we got divorced, though, he didn't hesitate to ask for his half of the equity in the house - the house he didn't want to buy - the house I pitched a fit for - the house my Daddy paid the closing costs on..... Daddy said I had to do that, but to make sure he didn't get a penny of my 401K and he didn't.
Since the ex follows TWIt investment advice, I'm sure he hasn't grown that nest egg he did get from me and will be in the same dire predicament as so many other TWIts. It's sad, actually.
Yes, Rhino. I'm not sure when, but TWI had all their staff sign waivers to not have SS withheld from their paychecks. Not sure if you can do that anymore these days and the folks do now have it withheld from what I understand, but by not contributing during those years means less that you get when you qualify.
Perhaps someone with more knowledge and a better memory than mine can weigh in on that one.
I know that, for me, growing up with a banker as a Daddy, I learned the value of money and the importance of compounding interest and saving NOW so that I can live comfortably LATER. My ex didn't have anything saved up, had not a penny to his name when we got married. We lived off my paycheck for six months while he went back through the Police Academy to get back into law enforcement.
I always made more money than he did, but he wanted me to lower my 401K withholding so that we would have more money NOW to live on. I lied and told him I did. It was one of the dumbest things he told me to do. He fought me tooth and nail about buying a house, but once TWI came out with the "we do not have a policy on debt" he was a wee bit more receptive to the idea. I jumped on it and we bought a house very, very quickly.
When we got divorced, though, he didn't hesitate to ask for his half of the equity in the house - the house he didn't want to buy - the house I pitched a fit for - the house my Daddy paid the closing costs on..... Daddy said I had to do that, but to make sure he didn't get a penny of my 401K and he didn't.
Since the ex follows TWIt investment advice, I'm sure he hasn't grown that nest egg he did get from me and will be in the same dire predicament as so many other TWIts. It's sad, actually.
Belle,
Your ex reaps what he sowed. If he didn't give much contribution to the house equity, he doesn't deserve &$*#. However, what's done is done. Just don't give him any more $$ as he doesn't deserve it for all the &$*# that you've been through.
If he's in the same dire predicament as many TWIts, well then... TOUGH!!! that is his prerrogative, not yours. Like I said, he reaps what he sowed and... don't give him any $$$... not even if he comes begging you and kissing your arse. Let him survive on his own and on his own life decision.
Yes, Rhino. I'm not sure when, but TWI had all their staff sign waivers to not have SS withheld from their paychecks. Not sure if you can do that anymore these days and the folks do now have it withheld from what I understand, but by not contributing during those years means less that you get when you qualify.
Belle,
Yep......I signed those waivers to not have SS withheld from my twi paycheck.
Man, what a rip.....!!!! Didn't really think a whole lot about it......UNTIL years later, when I got my annual SS information. Yeah......I got lots of goose eggs (zeros) year after year.
Twi uses and abuses the young and ambitious.....to serve THEIR ends.
Yep......I signed those waivers to not have SS withheld from my twi paycheck.
Man, what a rip.....!!!! Didn't really think a whole lot about it......UNTIL years later, when I got my annual SS information. Yeah......I got lots of goose eggs (zeros) year after year.
Twi uses and abuses the young and ambitious.....to serve THEIR ends.
Well, self employed pay about 14%, but with twi I guess you would have paid about 7% and they would have had to pay 7%. So they were just getting themselves out of paying their half, using some bs (coersion?) to talk you out of it. Add that to the employee class action suit.
Of course if twi had paid you the 7% they didn't have to pay in and encouraged you to save the other 7% and invest, you would have been better off than SS I'd think. I'm really amazed the government allowed them not to pay ... I thought only government workers got away with that, and they have their own pension funds. Sadly by the time I reach 65 the gov' may move retirement age up to 75 and cut benefits.
Fortunately a guy was in our twig in about 1980 and got some twiggies into some mutual funds he sold. I put in at least my IRA every year, so, I came out much better than if he hadn't come to twig to sell his funds... maybe I did get something out of twig after all LOL Thank gawd I wasn't a staffer.
If you were caught playing with stocks in Twi, when I was in, you would of got confronted. a guy in my fellowship played with the stocks ( he had alot invested and checked daily) moved them around, know what I mean. He got confronted...wow..who knows if he stopped..just a regular joe but Im sure it was his weakness...couldnt have a weakness..
If you were caught playing with stocks in Twi, when I was in, you would of got confronted. a guy in my fellowship played with the stocks ( he had alot invested and checked daily) moved them around, know what I mean. He got confronted...wow..who knows if he stopped..just a regular joe but Im sure it was his weakness...couldnt have a weakness..
Well, investing in funds isn't quite like gambling day to day in trading. The idea of something for nothing via the stock market can have it's dark side, but investing wisely seems almost biblical. I am starting to think there are a lot of Enron type shenanigans though ... so maybe the end is near
This really hits home for me. One couple, whom I love dearly, have been sold out TWIts and continue to support TWI despite some horrendous treatment, evil "suggestions" from Moynihan and knowing that there are things wrong with what and how TWI teaches. I could write a book on the injustices to this family alone.
Thing is, the wife, according to TWI standards, was a stay at home mom and then stay at home wife. She worked at the limb under Moynihan for a while but, when she needed to have surgery, she had to sign up with a temp agency and try to get a job that she could work at long enough to get health insurance benefits so that they could afford for her to have the surgery.
They had little to nothing in retirement when I left TWI. HECK, they didn't even have a savings account!
Belle,
I hear you. Some innies continue to follow twi mandates despite atrocities. Whether they are guilt ridden or fear driven.......they still are being manipulated.
Sometimes I think that if some were gutsy enough to leave twi.........they just don't want to face the music. It really is a daunting task to look at one's past involvement with a cult square in the eye and THEN, own up to it and move on with a better life.
Some just don't have the willpower to get out of their rut.
IMO, it seems like a religious welfare.......of sorts.
Well............some DO have the willpower to get out of their rut and exit twi.
In the past two days, I've heard that THREE families have just recently left twi's bondage. The reasons cited: 1) Don't agree with twi-debt doctrine and wanted to buy a house and 2) Twi is self-serving and doesn't care about the individual believers and 3) Twi's teachings and set-up is soooooo boring.
Rhino- when did you last work! the Self-employment tax is 15.3% (of which 2.9% is medicare). Its been over 15% for quite some time.
I wonder, if a person opted out for say 10 years, and then starts paying SS taxes, (and does so for the 10 years required to collect SS), would their retirement benefit be the same as for those of us who paid in all these years? I don't know how that formula works.
I did a quick search about the SS formula just now. The first step in the calculation is to average your HIGHEST 35 YEARS (adjusted for inflation). Years when no earnings were reported, whether you had opted out, or did not file taxes, or did not work, have zero entered into them. So, if a person doesn't have 35 years of reported income, their average, (AIME in SS terms) is lower because of the zero amount entered for those years.
It seems then, under current law, that those "opt out" years would have a serious effect, unless a person has 35 years of reported income during other years.
All the reason more, to get off TWI staff and start working a real job, making real money, NOW! (Unless one can sock some money into 401Ks with religious regularity- yeah, like that is gonna happen on staff teehee)
Well....lesseee....my ex is 44 this year. He had a few years on the low end of the totem pole shortly after college when he was a deputy sheriff.....then he quit all that and went WOW for a year, then into WC training where he was dropped (unjustly) after two years just weeks before graduating.....then worked a series of odd jobs - most very close to minimum wage - lived off my paycheck for nearly a year so he could get back into law enforcement .... FINALLY he started making a decent paycheck after climbing his way to some level of seniority .... THEN left all that hard work behind to go work as "security" at HQ and live in a dorm making maybe $8/hour. :huh:
His SS statement that lays all that out has him receiving about $400/month if he keeps up this pace.
WTF!! If he stays at HQ like this he's going to be living on the streets when his body starts to fall apart, he gets ailments and has too many doctor bills and needs for TWI to want to take care of him anymore.
Although twi did finally start a 401(k) for their full time staff, they would only contribute to staffer's funds if they had been full time employees for at least 7-8 years. All the others not at that seniority could be in the 401(k), but would not get any employer contributions.
What a great witness! TWI'ers don't own homes of their own, therefore must rent until they die, therefore must need a source of income, therefore must work to live. Gypsies, bedouins, and paupers! Wouldn't you like to be one of that number? :blink: And they wonder why they do the outreach (the activity), but see little expansion (the result - if genuine, from God).
Oh, hey...here is a challenge for anyone who has a friend / family member (my condolences) who is actually in twi's 401(k):
When it first came out, and it was explained to twi's full time staff by the financial advisor, he made the comment that twi wouldn't allow their employees to have any international stock fund options.
My challenge is, find out if they have since included an option for international funds (which should be a part of everyone's well diversified portfolio). The reason they wouldn't allow it was because LCM went on and on to the Staff about "proper" investments at a lunch. He spoke exkathedra (no offense) about how stocks were OK, but you should only invest in companies that you "believe" in, and "local" companies....maybe the kind that helped out twi. I know of people who, after he opined that, left lunch, and sold all their holdings outside of "local" Ohio companies or the telecom provider for HQ (Qwest at that time).
So, even though it is a "kinder & gentler" twi, if they were really moving away from Mar - tin-dale's ravings, then they would have introduced an international fund option. Just wondering......
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Belle
Skyrider,
This really hits home for me. One couple, whom I love dearly, have been sold out TWIts and continue to support TWI despite some horrendous treatment, evil "suggestions" from Moynihan and knowing that there are things wrong with what and how TWI teaches. I could write a book on the injustices to this family alone.
Thing is, the wife, according to TWI standards, was a stay at home mom and then stay at home wife. She worked at the limb under Moynihan for a while but, when she needed to have surgery, she had to sign up with a temp agency and try to get a job that she could work at long enough to get health insurance benefits so that they could afford for her to have the surgery.
They had little to nothing in retirement when I left TWI. HECK, they didn't even have a savings account!
The husband is self-employed and rather stubborn about not working for anyone else. They live decently enough, but practically everything they own is a hand me down from his clients or garage sale type stuff. AND it's all living paycheck to paycheck.
He had to have his gall bladder removed and at that time they had just paid off the balance of the hospital bill. Self employed, no insurance, no savings, no retirement, no permanent home.....failing health, approaching early 60's. I wonder what kind of lifestyle they are going to be able to have living off Social Security only....especially if they were one of the ones who waived SS withholdings for years according to TWI suggestion. :unsure:
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RumRunner
Belle's right - we are on half pay as clergy and told to believe for the rest. Lessee - as I recall half pay was $165 a month living in Chicago where local rents where in the $2K range - uhh back in the early 80's
Oops - WERE on half pay not ARE - I've been gone a LONG time
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rhino
Was it Howard or what's his name Owens that said the retirement plan was to work till you die?
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FreeFromCults
...work till you die so that they can live in luxury for the rest of their lives.
They are nothing but a bunch of conniving hypocrites .
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Patriot
Once again, twi shows that they have not a shred of concern for their people :(
I know one clergyman who, he and his wife served TWI as staff employees for many years. Long story short, they get dropped, kicked to the curb, and have NOTHING....NOTHING....NOTHING....for their retirements. Not sure of their ages, but he is well into his 60's, and unless a big miracle happens, will be working for rent, for the rest of his life. They're still loyal and will refuse ever to go into debt for a house or condo. It's really sad.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Lemme see...No mortages...no college education...live on a need basis...and no retirement plan...
...wise as serpents?...how about, dumb as Balaams foot.
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dmiller
Hmm. How about as *dumb as Balaam???
His foot was smarter than he was!!
(Num. 22:25;27)
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GrouchoMarxJr
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Belle
Yes, Rhino. I'm not sure when, but TWI had all their staff sign waivers to not have SS withheld from their paychecks. Not sure if you can do that anymore these days and the folks do now have it withheld from what I understand, but by not contributing during those years means less that you get when you qualify.
Perhaps someone with more knowledge and a better memory than mine can weigh in on that one.
I know that, for me, growing up with a banker as a Daddy, I learned the value of money and the importance of compounding interest and saving NOW so that I can live comfortably LATER. My ex didn't have anything saved up, had not a penny to his name when we got married. We lived off my paycheck for six months while he went back through the Police Academy to get back into law enforcement.
I always made more money than he did, but he wanted me to lower my 401K withholding so that we would have more money NOW to live on. I lied and told him I did. It was one of the dumbest things he told me to do. He fought me tooth and nail about buying a house, but once TWI came out with the "we do not have a policy on debt" he was a wee bit more receptive to the idea. I jumped on it and we bought a house very, very quickly.
When we got divorced, though, he didn't hesitate to ask for his half of the equity in the house - the house he didn't want to buy - the house I pitched a fit for - the house my Daddy paid the closing costs on.....
Daddy said I had to do that, but to make sure he didn't get a penny of my 401K and he didn't.
Since the ex follows TWIt investment advice, I'm sure he hasn't grown that nest egg he did get from me and will be in the same dire predicament as so many other TWIts. It's sad, actually.
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FreeFromCults
Belle,
Your ex reaps what he sowed. If he didn't give much contribution to the house equity, he doesn't deserve &$*#. However, what's done is done. Just don't give him any more $$ as he doesn't deserve it for all the &$*# that you've been through.
If he's in the same dire predicament as many TWIts, well then... TOUGH!!! that is his prerrogative, not yours. Like I said, he reaps what he sowed and... don't give him any $$$... not even if he comes begging you and kissing your arse. Let him survive on his own and on his own life decision.
Regards.
FFC
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skyrider
Belle,
Yep......I signed those waivers to not have SS withheld from my twi paycheck.
Man, what a rip.....!!!! Didn't really think a whole lot about it......UNTIL years later, when I got my annual SS information. Yeah......I got lots of goose eggs (zeros) year after year.
Twi uses and abuses the young and ambitious.....to serve THEIR ends.
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rhino
Well, self employed pay about 14%, but with twi I guess you would have paid about 7% and they would have had to pay 7%. So they were just getting themselves out of paying their half, using some bs (coersion?) to talk you out of it. Add that to the employee class action suit.
Of course if twi had paid you the 7% they didn't have to pay in and encouraged you to save the other 7% and invest, you would have been better off than SS I'd think. I'm really amazed the government allowed them not to pay ... I thought only government workers got away with that, and they have their own pension funds. Sadly by the time I reach 65 the gov' may move retirement age up to 75 and cut benefits.
Fortunately a guy was in our twig in about 1980 and got some twiggies into some mutual funds he sold. I put in at least my IRA every year, so, I came out much better than if he hadn't come to twig to sell his funds... maybe I did get something out of twig after all LOL Thank gawd I wasn't a staffer.
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likeaneagle
Rhino-
If you were caught playing with stocks in Twi, when I was in, you would of got confronted. a guy in my fellowship played with the stocks ( he had alot invested and checked daily) moved them around, know what I mean. He got confronted...wow..who knows if he stopped..just a regular joe but Im sure it was his weakness...couldnt have a weakness..
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rhino
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skyrider
Belle,
I hear you. Some innies continue to follow twi mandates despite atrocities. Whether they are guilt ridden or fear driven.......they still are being manipulated.
Sometimes I think that if some were gutsy enough to leave twi.........they just don't want to face the music. It really is a daunting task to look at one's past involvement with a cult square in the eye and THEN, own up to it and move on with a better life.
Some just don't have the willpower to get out of their rut.
IMO, it seems like a religious welfare.......of sorts.
Peace.
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skyrider
Well............some DO have the willpower to get out of their rut and exit twi.
In the past two days, I've heard that THREE families have just recently left twi's bondage. The reasons cited: 1) Don't agree with twi-debt doctrine and wanted to buy a house and 2) Twi is self-serving and doesn't care about the individual believers and 3) Twi's teachings and set-up is soooooo boring.
:)
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penguin
Skyrider,
Tell congrats to those 3 newly free families!
Amen to all of those reasons. They were all parts of why I left also.
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HAPe4me
Rhino- when did you last work! the Self-employment tax is 15.3% (of which 2.9% is medicare). Its been over 15% for quite some time.
I wonder, if a person opted out for say 10 years, and then starts paying SS taxes, (and does so for the 10 years required to collect SS), would their retirement benefit be the same as for those of us who paid in all these years? I don't know how that formula works.
~HAP
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topoftheworld
I could be wrong, but I believe SS is paid based on the last 40 quarters of work life.
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HAPe4me
I did a quick search about the SS formula just now. The first step in the calculation is to average your HIGHEST 35 YEARS (adjusted for inflation). Years when no earnings were reported, whether you had opted out, or did not file taxes, or did not work, have zero entered into them. So, if a person doesn't have 35 years of reported income, their average, (AIME in SS terms) is lower because of the zero amount entered for those years.
It seems then, under current law, that those "opt out" years would have a serious effect, unless a person has 35 years of reported income during other years.
All the reason more, to get off TWI staff and start working a real job, making real money, NOW! (Unless one can sock some money into 401Ks with religious regularity- yeah, like that is gonna happen on staff teehee)
~HAP
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Belle
Well....lesseee....my ex is 44 this year. He had a few years on the low end of the totem pole shortly after college when he was a deputy sheriff.....then he quit all that and went WOW for a year, then into WC training where he was dropped (unjustly) after two years just weeks before graduating.....then worked a series of odd jobs - most very close to minimum wage - lived off my paycheck for nearly a year so he could get back into law enforcement .... FINALLY he started making a decent paycheck after climbing his way to some level of seniority .... THEN left all that hard work behind to go work as "security" at HQ and live in a dorm making maybe $8/hour. :huh:
His SS statement that lays all that out has him receiving about $400/month if he keeps up this pace.
WTF!! If he stays at HQ like this he's going to be living on the streets when his body starts to fall apart, he gets ailments and has too many doctor bills and needs for TWI to want to take care of him anymore.
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Patriot
Although twi did finally start a 401(k) for their full time staff, they would only contribute to staffer's funds if they had been full time employees for at least 7-8 years. All the others not at that seniority could be in the 401(k), but would not get any employer contributions.
What a great witness! TWI'ers don't own homes of their own, therefore must rent until they die, therefore must need a source of income, therefore must work to live. Gypsies, bedouins, and paupers! Wouldn't you like to be one of that number? :blink: And they wonder why they do the outreach (the activity), but see little expansion (the result - if genuine, from God).
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Patriot
Oh, hey...here is a challenge for anyone who has a friend / family member (my condolences) who is actually in twi's 401(k):
When it first came out, and it was explained to twi's full time staff by the financial advisor, he made the comment that twi wouldn't allow their employees to have any international stock fund options.
My challenge is, find out if they have since included an option for international funds (which should be a part of everyone's well diversified portfolio). The reason they wouldn't allow it was because LCM went on and on to the Staff about "proper" investments at a lunch. He spoke exkathedra (no offense) about how stocks were OK, but you should only invest in companies that you "believe" in, and "local" companies....maybe the kind that helped out twi. I know of people who, after he opined that, left lunch, and sold all their holdings outside of "local" Ohio companies or the telecom provider for HQ (Qwest at that time).
So, even though it is a "kinder & gentler" twi, if they were really moving away from Mar - tin-dale's ravings, then they would have introduced an international fund option. Just wondering......
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