I got out back in the 70's when things were nice. I had no idea that things got as nasty as Belle discribes.
Belle my heart goes out to you.
Mid life crisis is that time in your life when you relize that your life isnt going to be as you always imagined. That moment really really sucks. Just remember that God has something special for you.
I am going to treat on other posts and say that revalation comes sometimes when we are at our lowest and having to totally rely on God. When we realize that we have totally been screwed.
Just remember that all things good come to those who trust the Lord. Sometimes we just dont recognize them when we see them.
I guess the best thing that happened to me was that my time of involvment came when I was young and wouldnt take any crap off anyone.
I have a letter here in my desk drawer that my moms minister sent to her. Here is the letter
"I finally found a booklet on THE WAY. I read it and made a few loines under some of the things that seem to be off. There are more off points in the booklet, and I thought maybe I should not send it, but then I had promised, and you need to know the real facts, and perhaps you can prayfully discuss this with your son. Don't let it upset you, for he will come off it some of these days."
Guys I'm sorry I can't finish the letter. It hurts to relive the pain my family went thru because of my rejection of them.
Paw, this really is an incredible addition and I suspect the ones out there listening with their speakers turned as low as they'll go in hopes no one will hear are the ones that will be drawn to consider. Consider their lives when they have a more dimensional means of hearing what this ministry has been for other people.
Belle, you had incredible courage and my vision for you is you find someone that can give you so much love you'll not miss what could have been. (((you)))
As you spoke there were times of great familiarity for me. :(
And it was good for others who possibly didn't know that detail to hear it. The one where they have let some of us know they are keeping track.
If there was nothing left to hide any longer one would think they'd relax a bit more and stop tailing folks.
I hang my head in shame thinking about what I did to my family because of The Way International's influence...nay, their control...in my life.
{{{{{Belle}}}}}
There is a place of peace and healing...ya know? :) You know that my daughter finally feels safe enough about me to call and talk. It took 17 years...but it's happening now.
The slimy residue of The Way International goes away.
And what comes is so much more than one could ever hope or dream or ask for...
What comes is one's best self...one's best life.
Maybe little bits at a time, but it comes all the same.
{{{{{Belle}}}}}
We're gonna get there...we're all gonna get there. :)
Thank you for your courage, your willingness to share, your laugh, your tears, your honesty, yourself.
{{{{{Belle}}}}}
Guess some people/organizations just have to learn the hard way to never mess with a Scorpio!
Belle - I had a hundred things to do today, but I got distracted and got on the site. I thought I would see what this "radio" thing was all about and WOW! I spent the next couple of hours listening and rewinding the broadcast. You've been on my mind all day.
Your story is remarkably like mine, only I wasn't nearly as bold as you. I mostly lurked and did not post - but received the encouragement to find a way out. I, too, stuck with the abuse for a long time (although not nearly as long as you) until I found a way out. I left without my husband - but thank God - he finally was asked to leave too.
At one point you described the gradual ramping up of responsibilities on unsuspecting new Way folks. First it is great - a couple of meetings a week. Then, before you know it, you turn around and it literally consumes your life. And it was never enough! I was in 26 years and I cannot once remember any "leadership" telling me how thankful they were for all I was doing and/or giving, and that I had somehow met their expectations. But I was brought into more than one mandatory spit-spewing meeting where I was told that I was not expressing my thankfulness enough to the person(s) doing the spewing. This layering of responsibilities was by design. I was told as much by the WC coordinator at the campus I was at. It was taught, it was deliberate and it was designed to bring a person to the point of failure. Loving ... huh.
Thank you sooooo much!!!! I can't even begin to tell you how scary it is to think about putting yourself out there like this. It was very scary, but also something I've wanted to do. It's what I've been trying to do as Belle on the boards, but this is a whole different arena and hopefully one that will relate to and touch folks that maybe the online writings don't.
It's the most horrific feeling to have it posted and then to wonder if anyone is going to listen and then, if they do, what do they think? Does it help? Do I just sound like a blubbering idiot.... all kinds of things go through your mind. To see your posts really means more than you can imagine. :)
I burned copies of all the interviews - Chas and Rascal's intermission for family still on dialup and those luddites I'm related to. If someone wants copies just PM me with snail mail info. I'll gladly ship 'em out.
And, WD, I'd be very upset if our relationship changed....don't you dare start being nice to me. ;)
Obviously, the damage to your family relationships was not irreparable.
You're kind, intelligent, funny, and (from what little I've seen of you) quite attractive. I see no reason you can't have the family you've always dreamed of. Well, maybe you'll only have 1.7 kids.
You were brave, Girl! Providing that information being out as short a time as you were and still going through your own personal he11. Someone you didn't know asking you for that information.....had to be a very difficult decision to provide that information. I remember reading the hesitancy in your words when you did provide the information. All those feelings are still so real and so vivid to me.
When Bob & Dottie came to town to confront me on sending the letter to hq, they told me what happened with that one and mentioned one other letter, but never mentioned the others..... Turns out the girl was freaked to get a letter with no return address, or she glanced at the first page, then saw it had no return address....something like that. She freaked and took it straight to her overseer. So, she never read the thing and is probably still barely making ends meet and only dreaming of getting that nursing degree. :(
They used that letter to tie me to insurgent. It was an illogical leap that just happened to be right, but I never admitted to it. HA! I would LOVE to have seen his and Dottie's faces when they listened to the interview....and you KNOW they listened to it! LOL!
What's funny is most folks thought insurgent was a guy. I always got a kick out of that!
Thanks so much for your kind words and for helping someone you didn't even know, much less have any reason to trust back then.
wow, the radio idea is AWSOME! keep up the good work, and the guests coming!! hearing the stories and events in people's own words, REALLY makes it "come off the page", so to speak!! great job!!
I am reminded of mine. The whole time that I was in TWI , esp in the beginning, I treated them very bad.
Through it all my PA would say "bliss, what would the Way do if you needed $ or if something bad happend to you? Would they take care of you? Just remember, when it comes down to it, your family is the only ones you can count on."
I remember defending the ministry all the while knowing deep down in my heart they would NEVER help me out. I would say "we give people the Word, the tools to not HAVE to need $. Oh and nothing bad will ever happen to me!"
How immature and naive. But, they stuck by me like glue. Can't say that for some of my "freinds".
Now I can look back at that statement and tell my PA, "you were so right!"
I think I have a few freinds that would be there through it all, but because of my "lack of affiliations" outside of the Way, I don't have the confidence in anyone yet. (((sigh))))
Stay strong, and leaning on the Lord girl, He will carry you if you let HIM.
... It's the most horrific feeling to have it posted and then to wonder if anyone is going to listen and then, if they do, what do they think? Does it help? Do I just sound like a blubbering idiot.... all kinds of things go through your mind. ...
Belle, you sound great. You have a nice voice. Thanks for sharing.
I'm listening to the first interview now and you mentioned about your teaching of "epiluo" as opposed to the ministrys.
Could you share what your teaching was and how it differed from twi's?
WOW, this is quite a story. I just finished listening to part one for the first time. I am getting quite an emotional reaction in listening to this. It reminds me of when I left the Way denomination in the late 1980s. Although they did not pressure me as much as they tried to pressure Belle. Frankly, if they would have tried I would have eaten them alive. But this was in large part because I had 14 years of biblical study behind me and knew how to research the bible as well as or better than my leadership. Besides that the Way denomination leaders were always a bunch of sex fiends and alcoholics anyway or at least idolized those people that were. It just took me 14 years to find out the truth about them. Nevertheless, I admire Belle's courage and ability to express herself in the circumstances with which she faced.
A powerful testimony Belle and a great job in moderating it Pawtucket.
This interview was a long time in the making. I had heard of someone that was still inside reading GS (certainly not the only one then or now) And I heard that she had been "discovered" by the powers that be at twi. I was flabbergasted at the lengths that an organization would go to find out who mailed an envelope to someone. It was the perfect illustration of the control that leaders needed to manipulate and keep people in place. I was not surprised by the actions. They just supported the cancerous mind set that permeates twi. The spotlight is never on the bible or God or Jesus Christ. Don't get me started!!
Anyway I wanted to speak with this brave and ballsy person. We were going to meet, I believe, during a trip I made to Florida, but that was not to be. Much time passed and I was informed that she couldn't tell her story right now, but maybe someday.
I was in contact with her via email and eventually by phone. She was a fiesty southern belle! She was hesitant about putting this into any form. I met her about a year ago and we had a good time at the weenie roast. She still wasn't ready to come out of the closet. By the way, she was posting under her current screenname. NOONE, except a select few, knew about this story and if they did, they had NO clue it was Belle.
I approached her when I was planning to do GS Radio. She went back and forth about doing it. Finally it was an absolute NO. I respected that. I continued to line up people for interviews.
I forget what changed her mind, but she contacted me and it was a go. I scheduled the interview for that weekend. There was some BIG Nascar race going on and I could only interview her around the race schedule. We started and the interview was lively and full of stories. I think we taped for about 3-4 hours. I told her I would call her back in a while if I had any follow ups questions.
I was saving the taped interview (one very large 3.5 hour audio file). I don't know what happened but the complete interview was not saved. I did everything I could, but it was nowhere to be found. I won't bore you with the technical details, but I walked away with a mantra of "save often" from then on in.
I sheepishly called her back and told her what happened. I had planned this thing, in essence, for years and it was gone. It was about 5pm. Without a hesitation, she said, "Well I gotta get something to eat and watch the races for a bit, but if you call back in an hour or so, we'll just redo it"
I was flabbergasted that she would do it again. But she did. And I was able to have some "dramatic" fun at the right points.
This interview shows the control that twi will exert, if we let them.
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templelady
Is there anywhare a transcript of these broadcasts could be posted for those of us who don't have braodband capabilities?
To downlaod just \half would tke over an hour and a half
I would love to know what was said--but 3 hours of download is just a;liitle to much
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pawtucket
We are just testing the waters with these podcasts. If we do it on a regular basis, we will figure out a way to mail them on CD
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justloafing
Paw, If they are anything like the first two. We may have to get a list of the twi staff and send them a copy. :)
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SafariVista
Thank you Paw & Belle!
Enjoyed listening to the interview.
Belle your experience & mine were very similar during the Law Suit exposure, except our husbands were very different.
I had to look too!
Wonderful exposure of the Way~
Thanks for sharing...
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ex70sHouston
I got out back in the 70's when things were nice. I had no idea that things got as nasty as Belle discribes.
Belle my heart goes out to you.
Mid life crisis is that time in your life when you relize that your life isnt going to be as you always imagined. That moment really really sucks. Just remember that God has something special for you.
I am going to treat on other posts and say that revalation comes sometimes when we are at our lowest and having to totally rely on God. When we realize that we have totally been screwed.
Just remember that all things good come to those who trust the Lord. Sometimes we just dont recognize them when we see them.
I guess the best thing that happened to me was that my time of involvment came when I was young and wouldnt take any crap off anyone.
I have a letter here in my desk drawer that my moms minister sent to her. Here is the letter
"I finally found a booklet on THE WAY. I read it and made a few loines under some of the things that seem to be off. There are more off points in the booklet, and I thought maybe I should not send it, but then I had promised, and you need to know the real facts, and perhaps you can prayfully discuss this with your son. Don't let it upset you, for he will come off it some of these days."
Guys I'm sorry I can't finish the letter. It hurts to relive the pain my family went thru because of my rejection of them.
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justloafing
70's I too know about rejecting the family. So sad to say it was twi or nothing even in those days.
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ChattyKathy
You gave us an intermission. :)
Paw, this really is an incredible addition and I suspect the ones out there listening with their speakers turned as low as they'll go in hopes no one will hear are the ones that will be drawn to consider. Consider their lives when they have a more dimensional means of hearing what this ministry has been for other people.
Belle, you had incredible courage and my vision for you is you find someone that can give you so much love you'll not miss what could have been. (((you)))
As you spoke there were times of great familiarity for me. :(
And it was good for others who possibly didn't know that detail to hear it. The one where they have let some of us know they are keeping track.
If there was nothing left to hide any longer one would think they'd relax a bit more and stop tailing folks.
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Suda
Very good and informative. Now I'll have to find the first podcast and listen to it.
Bravo to Belle, you are a gutsy gal. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for you.
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CoolWaters
"I was so far gone that..."
I hang my head in shame thinking about what I did to my family because of The Way International's influence...nay, their control...in my life.
{{{{{Belle}}}}}
There is a place of peace and healing...ya know? :) You know that my daughter finally feels safe enough about me to call and talk. It took 17 years...but it's happening now.
The slimy residue of The Way International goes away.
And what comes is so much more than one could ever hope or dream or ask for...
What comes is one's best self...one's best life.
Maybe little bits at a time, but it comes all the same.
{{{{{Belle}}}}}
We're gonna get there...we're all gonna get there. :)
Thank you for your courage, your willingness to share, your laugh, your tears, your honesty, yourself.
{{{{{Belle}}}}}
Guess some people/organizations just have to learn the hard way to never mess with a Scorpio!
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Happyasaclam
Belle - I had a hundred things to do today, but I got distracted and got on the site. I thought I would see what this "radio" thing was all about and WOW! I spent the next couple of hours listening and rewinding the broadcast. You've been on my mind all day.
Your story is remarkably like mine, only I wasn't nearly as bold as you. I mostly lurked and did not post - but received the encouragement to find a way out. I, too, stuck with the abuse for a long time (although not nearly as long as you) until I found a way out. I left without my husband - but thank God - he finally was asked to leave too.
At one point you described the gradual ramping up of responsibilities on unsuspecting new Way folks. First it is great - a couple of meetings a week. Then, before you know it, you turn around and it literally consumes your life. And it was never enough! I was in 26 years and I cannot once remember any "leadership" telling me how thankful they were for all I was doing and/or giving, and that I had somehow met their expectations. But I was brought into more than one mandatory spit-spewing meeting where I was told that I was not expressing my thankfulness enough to the person(s) doing the spewing. This layering of responsibilities was by design. I was told as much by the WC coordinator at the campus I was at. It was taught, it was deliberate and it was designed to bring a person to the point of failure. Loving ... huh.
Clam
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Belle
(((((Y'ALL)))))
Thank you sooooo much!!!!
I can't even begin to tell you how scary it is to think about putting yourself out there like this. It was very scary, but also something I've wanted to do. It's what I've been trying to do as Belle on the boards, but this is a whole different arena and hopefully one that will relate to and touch folks that maybe the online writings don't.
It's the most horrific feeling to have it posted and then to wonder if anyone is going to listen and then, if they do, what do they think? Does it help? Do I just sound like a blubbering idiot.... all kinds of things go through your mind. To see your posts really means more than you can imagine. :)
I burned copies of all the interviews - Chas and Rascal's intermission for family still on dialup and those luddites I'm related to. If someone wants copies just PM me with snail mail info. I'll gladly ship 'em out.
And, WD, I'd be very upset if our relationship changed....don't you dare start being nice to me. ;)
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GeorgeStGeorge
Just heard part 2, Belle.
Obviously, the damage to your family relationships was not irreparable.
You're kind, intelligent, funny, and (from what little I've seen of you) quite attractive. I see no reason you can't have the family you've always dreamed of. Well, maybe you'll only have 1.7 kids.
George
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krys
Thank you, Belle.
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Nottawayfer
I would be happy to provide another list for a mass mailing at HQ, but I've been gone too long!
Omigosh! I finally just finished listening to the second episode! AWESOME listening! It is long, but it's worth it!
(((((BELLE)))))
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Belle
You were brave, Girl!
Providing that information being out as short a time as you were and still going through your own personal he11. Someone you didn't know asking you for that information.....had to be a very difficult decision to provide that information. I remember reading the hesitancy in your words when you did provide the information. All those feelings are still so real and so vivid to me.
When Bob & Dottie came to town to confront me on sending the letter to hq, they told me what happened with that one and mentioned one other letter, but never mentioned the others..... Turns out the girl was freaked to get a letter with no return address, or she glanced at the first page, then saw it had no return address....something like that. She freaked and took it straight to her overseer. So, she never read the thing and is probably still barely making ends meet and only dreaming of getting that nursing degree. :(
They used that letter to tie me to insurgent. It was an illogical leap that just happened to be right, but I never admitted to it. HA! I would LOVE to have seen his and Dottie's faces when they listened to the interview....and you KNOW they listened to it! LOL!
What's funny is most folks thought insurgent was a guy.
I always got a kick out of that!
Thanks so much for your kind words and for helping someone you didn't even know, much less have any reason to trust back then.
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Chief Cornerstone
wow, the radio idea is AWSOME! keep up the good work, and the guests coming!! hearing the stories and events in people's own words, REALLY makes it "come off the page", so to speak!! great job!!
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bliss
It's cathartic to get it all out huh?
I am glad that your family stuck by you.
I am reminded of mine. The whole time that I was in TWI , esp in the beginning, I treated them very bad.
Through it all my PA would say "bliss, what would the Way do if you needed $ or if something bad happend to you? Would they take care of you? Just remember, when it comes down to it, your family is the only ones you can count on."
I remember defending the ministry all the while knowing deep down in my heart they would NEVER help me out. I would say "we give people the Word, the tools to not HAVE to need $. Oh and nothing bad will ever happen to me!"
How immature and naive. But, they stuck by me like glue. Can't say that for some of my "freinds".
Now I can look back at that statement and tell my PA, "you were so right!"
I think I have a few freinds that would be there through it all, but because of my "lack of affiliations" outside of the Way, I don't have the confidence in anyone yet. (((sigh))))
Stay strong, and leaning on the Lord girl, He will carry you if you let HIM.
Great job PAW.
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oldiesman
Belle, you sound great. You have a nice voice. Thanks for sharing.
I'm listening to the first interview now and you mentioned about your teaching of "epiluo" as opposed to the ministrys.
Could you share what your teaching was and how it differed from twi's?
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oldiesman
Thanks Belle.
I just finished Part I and it was good.
I liked it very much.
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oldiesman
Just finished Part II and it was great.
Thanks Belle.
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Belle
I'm honored; thank you, OM. ^_^
There are two epiluo threads (one in the "About the Way" forum and one in the "Doctrinal" dungeon). I brought both of them to the top for you. :)
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outandabout
WOW I just listened to both episodes. What a story!
I can't believe TWI spent (spends?) SO MUCH TIME AND EFFORT to track down innie posters.
I really enjoyed listening to your story.
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Mark Sanguinetti
WOW, this is quite a story. I just finished listening to part one for the first time. I am getting quite an emotional reaction in listening to this. It reminds me of when I left the Way denomination in the late 1980s. Although they did not pressure me as much as they tried to pressure Belle. Frankly, if they would have tried I would have eaten them alive. But this was in large part because I had 14 years of biblical study behind me and knew how to research the bible as well as or better than my leadership. Besides that the Way denomination leaders were always a bunch of sex fiends and alcoholics anyway or at least idolized those people that were. It just took me 14 years to find out the truth about them. Nevertheless, I admire Belle's courage and ability to express herself in the circumstances with which she faced.
A powerful testimony Belle and a great job in moderating it Pawtucket.
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pawtucket
This interview was a long time in the making. I had heard of someone that was still inside reading GS (certainly not the only one then or now) And I heard that she had been "discovered" by the powers that be at twi. I was flabbergasted at the lengths that an organization would go to find out who mailed an envelope to someone. It was the perfect illustration of the control that leaders needed to manipulate and keep people in place. I was not surprised by the actions. They just supported the cancerous mind set that permeates twi. The spotlight is never on the bible or God or Jesus Christ. Don't get me started!!
Anyway I wanted to speak with this brave and ballsy person. We were going to meet, I believe, during a trip I made to Florida, but that was not to be. Much time passed and I was informed that she couldn't tell her story right now, but maybe someday.
I was in contact with her via email and eventually by phone. She was a fiesty southern belle! She was hesitant about putting this into any form. I met her about a year ago and we had a good time at the weenie roast. She still wasn't ready to come out of the closet. By the way, she was posting under her current screenname. NOONE, except a select few, knew about this story and if they did, they had NO clue it was Belle.
I approached her when I was planning to do GS Radio. She went back and forth about doing it. Finally it was an absolute NO. I respected that. I continued to line up people for interviews.
I forget what changed her mind, but she contacted me and it was a go. I scheduled the interview for that weekend. There was some BIG Nascar race going on and I could only interview her around the race schedule. We started and the interview was lively and full of stories. I think we taped for about 3-4 hours. I told her I would call her back in a while if I had any follow ups questions.
I was saving the taped interview (one very large 3.5 hour audio file). I don't know what happened but the complete interview was not saved. I did everything I could, but it was nowhere to be found. I won't bore you with the technical details, but I walked away with a mantra of "save often" from then on in.
I sheepishly called her back and told her what happened. I had planned this thing, in essence, for years and it was gone. It was about 5pm. Without a hesitation, she said, "Well I gotta get something to eat and watch the races for a bit, but if you call back in an hour or so, we'll just redo it"
I was flabbergasted that she would do it again. But she did. And I was able to have some "dramatic" fun at the right points.
This interview shows the control that twi will exert, if we let them.
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