Here is the film class transcript corresponding to page 19:
“Now, I want to take you a step further. Not only must you know what's available, how to receive and what to do with it; but if you're going to tap into the resources for the more abundant life you must get your need and your want parallel. The need and want must be parallel. Many times there are people who have tremendous needs but they only want their need filled thus far. They'll never get this prayer answered. Because if you're going to manifest the more abundant life there's one basic requirement: and that is that the need and the want must be parallel.”
And here is the Book version:
“If we are going to tap the resources for the more abundant life, we must not only know what is available, how to receive it, and what to do with it; but we must also get our needs and wants parallel. If our needs are light and our wants are heavy, we are not balanced. If our wants are light and our needs are heavy, we will never get an answer. When we believe, we get results in prayer if our needs and our wants are equal.”
Hmmm. Sounds like a teen-ager wanting the keys to the car, on a Friday night. ;)
To continue on the topic of Jesus Christs return. He won't be coming to earth on the first return we will meet him in the clouds. That is why scripture warns against listening to those who say "he is here" or "he is there"
Thank you for working with this topic. I agree with you here, but I think we need to better understand what earth means and what air means and the clouds too.
I do not believe those words are supposed to convey to us the normal five senses understanding. The word “earth” is often used to mean the earthly realm, the real of the five senses.
The word “air” also has a spiritual meaning far greater than an oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide mix. We were given the verse and the PFAL teaching to, if we are immersed in PFAL mastery, associate “air” with what comes out of God’s breath, the God-breathed air of His revelation in written form.
Also, the word “cloud” has a special scriptural use in the cloud of witnesses, those believers in the God-breathed that serve as our examples in troubled times.
You wrote: “Mike -- thanks for post #295. __ You finally answered a question! (Keep it up!).”
You’re welcome. I’ve been waiting for the right time to bring up the editors.
It still blows my mind that not only did I stumble into the fellowship I did in 1998, but that God had prepared me for it with meeting and bonding with all those very interesting people. This preparation was very extensive, and I’ve only scratched the surface of it here. This preparation has helped be believe a lot of things I’d have otherwise rejected, even more vehemently than most posters here reject it.
I almost brought Post #295’s information to WW’s attention when he blew his horn on that topic a few days ago, but I remembered all too well how numb he can be to actual data, and it just would have been lost. Still, it’s interesting to see how fast he and others buried #295 with no comments of substance. I noticed the same thing with my 22 “Thus saith the Lord” statements. Oakspear looked at them a bit, but no one else did bite.
But actually I do answer some questions, like your question about Dr knowing about “The Joy of Serving” being his last time to teach us, and the syllabus caveat you discovered.
I actually also do answer many more questions, just not the way the askers want me to. Often they want me to stumble and fumble, and when I ask a question as a pedagogical device, they are disappointed that I didn’t walk into their trap. Still I’m eager to answer many of them. If you want to see me lead the way with well designed questions to answers others have asked of me, just play their role sans the trap-intention.
For instance I’m sure there are many grads who know little about the critical Greek texts, just like T-Bone, and they can always (if meek and wanting to learn and not entrap) fill in for T-Bone on taking my invited stroll through the morass those texts conjure. Same with the Mark 16 issue, and same with the identity problems of seeing Jesus.
***
You wrote: “You DON'T call the shots here, and neither do we -- Public Forum -- remember??”
But you misread my post there, JUST LIKE most of the nation misread General Alexander Haig’s famous line that I quoted.
When President Reagan was shot and there was relative pandemonium in many circles of government, Haig took the bull by the horns and stated that he was in charge, then paused, and then added the word “here” to clear up any confusion that might have resulted in misinterpreting his remark.
Haig was only taking charge of what was appropriate for him to command at that time, i.e., the White House, and NOT the entire nation.
Because many distrusted Haig they didn’t hear the word “here” that he had supplied just for their comfort. Instead they thought the worst and thought he was staging a military coup. It amazed me how many people, even to this day, refuse to hear the word “here.”
I am in charge of the immediate context in which my comment came up. I am in charge of whom I deal with in an intimate way, such as supplying books.
***
You wrote: “When you respond, things go MUCH SMOOTHER.”
But YOU started it!
You were the one who brought the topic off of me and onto the more important matters. I felt that was an important thing to reward.
When others here get their egos turned on to stand-by mode and cozy up to my well designed questions things will go smoother too.
You wrote: “...if folks take the time to ask, decency requires that you answer...”
Sure, assuming that there’s some decency in their asking and some decency in their looking at my FORM of answer, even if it’s a preliminary question designed to get them pointed in the right direction in order to be able to hear the eventual full answer.
You might notice that’s what happened to our conversation last night. I tried to dismiss the topic and you insisted I not, AND you did it not with an insult to me, but with a stating your reasons why you thought it was important.
That showed me that you were working with a standard publishing model where an editor has power over the author. You just weren’t aware that in THIS case Dr was ALSO the publisher. That gave me reason enough to unload all I knew. I often hold onto what I know if I’m convinced the immediate recipient will not understand or appreciate me giving them what they demand.
I encourage you to continue focusing not on me but on the important things. I want to cooperate, but there’s a certain dance that sometimes is involved in some of these very complex matters. I need to see what steps a person knows to proceed with the rest of the show. Sometimes questions are needed and NOT a dodge.
I still reserve the right to righteously dodge. Everyone does it. WW is doing it right now with his theory of the “Joy of Serving” not being Dr’s last, and with his concocted story of the PFAL editors posting here that I and Dr are full of baloney. EVERYBODY dodges, it’s just a matter of whether it’s righteous or not. Jesus dodged his trap-layers. Anyone who uses the “Ignore” feature here or the PM block here is dodging. Dodging is not evil or reprehensible in itself. It can sometimes be the best and most efficient way of dealing with opponents.
Those who want to learn, who want to hear what they forgot or never absorbed in PFAL are the ones I never want to dodge. I am eager to serve the meek, the coachable. Those who want to only thwart me are in for any trick in the book I think is useful in thwarting them right back.
Tom Strange complains here that I mistreat people. Yeah, SURE! I drag them onto this thread, prevent them from leaving, and then slap them around.
No, Tom, here’s the real picture. I come here, not to inflict harm but to serve. People with intent to block my efforts come running at me, but are surprised when I am ready for them and not only occasionally dodge them, but sometimes I head butt them into a stupor where they can’t tell left from right.
Tom, I see you this way when you post what you recently did: You run crying and screaming to complain, “MOMMY, all I tried to do is hit Mike and he HURT me! Mommy, make him stop!”
***
Well, we have some much more interesting items to discuss.
Has anyone EVER noticed that the counterfeit Christ can look all physically bright and glowing and Hollywood handsome, just like the genuine?
Has anyone EVER noticed that the counterfeit Christ can physically raise people off the ground like he did Jesus in the desert?
Has anyone EVER noticed that the counterfeit Christ can make it look just like some long lost loved one was just raised from the dead?
Has anyone EVER noticed that the counterfeit Christ can counterfeit the simplistic, five senses view of the Gathering Together we have been holding onto for years?
Has anyone noticed that we were told to grow up to deal with this “slight” problem of Christ’s credentials by mastering some special instructions, some special revelation God has supplied to us in English?
Has anyone EVER noticed that the world as we once knew it is OVER, and that IT’S TIME to rise up and meet the Lord in the air?
Where are the dead bodies? in the ground. Where then are they rising from? the earth, real tangible earth, If they are rising, they are rising upwards in other words, in the air. The Bible is also very specific about the order of the resurrection first the dead bodies will rise, AND ONLY Jesus Christ can call forth the dead, and then we who are still alive will be caught up in the air to meet him. If nothing else will demonstrate that it is the Real Jesus Christ the sight of millions of graves opening ( not just in cemeteries but wherever a body may be) and the dead bodies rising from them will be enough to convince even the most doubting among us.
Sometimes, Air is air, Earth is earth and clouds are clouds. This is one of those times. This description is of a real time event that will be tangible to all in the five senses realm --no need to try to make it into an esoteric mental exercise.
In my case what you have dodged is the opportunity given to you by God to show yourself a man of integrity who keeps his word.
Earlier I posted that It was through the promptings of the Holy Spirit that I was led to ask you for the books you have so long offered. Even as I followed those promptings, after several days of resistance on my part, Heavenly Father was showing me that you would not follow through on your word.
But you have always had freedom of choice, Even though God knew what your initial response would be ----namely a methodology by which you could avoid sending the books----, He has not taken from you the opportunity to repent of your actions and supply the requested materials as you have previously promised on several occasions.
The ball is in your court, You can stand up and be a man of integrity and follow through on your word, (the original word , not the dodging you have done ever since I agreed to reread the books), or you can show yourself to the world as a fraud. God has left the choice in your hands. See that you choose wisely
He reserves the right to dodge. Isn't that special. Yet he doesn't recognize others' right to ignore his dodges and get back to their original questions. It's called hypocrisy.
If you'd read me better, I said that others DO have a right to dodge or ignore, HOWEVER the question that should be raised is if a particular dodge is a RIGHTEOUS one.
If people dodge to deceive or to cover over a mistake that should be dealt with differently, then it’s an unrighteous dodge. It’s like anger. Jesus got angry when it was the right reaction for the situation, AND he didn’t go overboard with it. There is righteous anger and unrighteous anger.
You were all hot and bothered when I’d righteously dodge people trying to tear me down as I was trying to help them with needed information. Then you turned right around and was one of the first to invoke the Ignore feature on me. THAT’S hypocrisy!
Hey, maybe you even invoked that dodge on me for a valid reason, like your mental health, but the hypocrisy of condemning me for what you felt was ok for yourself was not so valid, and now it’s compounded by calling me a hypocrite AND you mislabeling my pedagogical question asking for dodging. You got some housecleaning to do buddy!
***
Now, some of you are asking yourselves, “Why is Mike taking time to discuss dodging when he could be working his stated higher priorities of PFAL.”
Well folks, I must admit that’s a good question, and I think I perceive some of you are asking it from an innocent position of wanting to know, as opposed to wanting to thwart and tear down. So, I will reward the innocent askers with the answer, and give great grace to the not so innocent ones lying in wait to catch me.
In the AC’s “16 Keys to Walking in the Spirit” we see that Key # 8 reads: “Do not tell all you know. Receive Word of Wisdom.”
This is a valuable key, and I am convinced that Dr utilized it in the teaching of the film class and in the production of the book. I long ago perceived this in how Dr goes through such complicated hand-stands to teach that soul is not exactly synonymous with spirit, when all the time he COULD have simply quoted Hebrews 4:12, “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
I saw Dr holding back on other things, dodging in a sense, and applying this Key #8 to some of his teachings. It bothered me at first, until I took the AC in 1975 and came to understand Key #8 a little.
Then, for all you perpetual skeptics, if you don’t want to accept my perceptions of Dr’s applying this key, he came right out and said so at the beginning of CF&S that he didn’t teach us all he knew in PFAL because if he had, so he said, then we’d not come back for more.
***
Sorry folks, that’s all the time I have right now. Consider this a dodge of all the other recent posts, but don’t get all shook. It’s only a trivial scheduling priority dodge. I have an appointment, but I’ll be back.
God has given us a promise in His Word that we, as Christians, often times fail to manifest. In John 10:10 Jesus Christ is speaking to the religious leaders of his time.
John 10
:10 . . . I am come that they might have life,
and that they might have it more abundantly
Look around you. Do you see God's people living a more abundant life? I see some prospering but not all. Jesus Christ wasn't talking about just the religious leaders prospering or just the select few living abundantly. He was talking about the sheep--the people. We should be prospering. If not, we are missing something. Is God's Word true? Jesus Christ meant what he said and said what he meant.
Let us look a little closer at this verse. Jesus Christ said, "that they might have it more abundantly." He didn't say just abundantly, He said more abundantly. Most people would be willing to live an abundant life but that is not what he said. He said more abundantly!! Listen, if Jesus Christ told the truth than there must be keys available, there must be principals available in God's Word that will instruct us and guide us into the more than abundant life. This is exactly what this series of teachings will do.
The purpose of these teachings is to give you the keys to live the more abundant life that God wants for His children. In the Old Testament, when God's people adhered to His Word and did His commandments they lived abundantly. We live in a new day and a new age yet the principal remains. When we live according to the Word that is written to us we will live a life that is more than abundant; we will live a life that is not just abundant but more than abundant. Let us not limit God in our lives. I want the keys and principle that you learn here to be a safe anchorage in a sea of doubt. When storms arise you can go to God and His Word for solace and deliverance. We need to return to the keys and principles in God's Word to eliminate the confusion and doubt that surrounds us. These keys work with a mathematical exactness and scientific precision and are set so that we may know, without a shadow of a doubt, the Word that God has so graciously given us.
The very first lesson we must learn is this:
The greatest secret in the world today is that
The Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God.
This may sound simple but most people don't believe that God said what He meant and meant what He said. People will take one part of the scripture and say, "Yes, I believe that." And then they will take another verse and remark, "Well, I just find that hard to believe." The Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God. God has given us everything we need to live a more than abundant life. He has given us everything so that we can have a true and vital spiritual relationship with God and it is written in His Word. Now, we either take it all or leave it all. We have no right to take one verse and discard another. The Bible is either God's Word and God's Will from Genesis to Revelation or none of it is. This will be a stumbling block to some but for those who hunger and thirst after God's Will they will dive into God's Word and immerse themselves in His truths.
Let me ask you a question. Why do Christians falter? Why do God's people have trouble when He says that abundance is ours?
Jeremiah 2
:13 For my people have committed two evils;
they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters,
and hewed them out cisterns,
broken cisterns,
that can hold no water.
Who is God talking to? He says, "My people." His people. In the Old Testament it is the Children of Israel. Today it is all who call up on the name of the Lord Jesus. What have they done? They have committed two evils: they have forsaken God, the fountain of living waters, and they have hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. What is a fountain? A fountain is a unlimited supply of water. What is a cistern? A cistern is a large man-made container. It holds a limited supply of water, and if it is cracked the water will not remain.
God said His people have forsaken the fountain of living water and constructed for themselves their own cisterns, their own ideologies and theories that are broken and limited. What do you want to rely on? Do you want to experience the benefits of a fountain with living water or depend on a man-made, cracked cistern that can only hold so much? I choose the fountain of living waters.
So, if we have hewed out for ourselves these broken cisterns that can hold no water what is our greatest transgression?
Matthew 22
:37 Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul,
and with all thy mind.
:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Because the first and greatest commandment is to love God with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength, it is logical that our greatest transgression--our greatest sin--is to not love God with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength. Our greatest sin is to not love the creator of the heavens and the earth that has given us life and a life that is more than abundant. Our greatest transgression is to not love God who has forgiven our trespasses and healed our diseases. Our greatest sin is to not love God with every fiber of our being. Anytime we exalt anything above God we break the first and greatest commandment. Anytime we construct our own ideologies and theologies instead of adhering to the wonderful, matchless Word of God we transgress.
Hosea 4
:6a My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: . . .
What destroys God's people? A lack of knowledge. Look around us today. In mankind there is a vast amount of knowledge. Man knows so much now that even the specialist have to further specialize. Is God talking about worldly knowledge? No. He is talking about the knowledge that sits like diamonds in His glorious Word. He is talking about the revealed Word and Will of God. People are destroyed because they lack an accurate knowledge of God's Word.
The intention of these teachings is to bring people back to the accuracy and integrity of God's Word. When you know God's Word, when you know God's Will and are walking with Him you will have power to live a more abundant life. You will live a vibrant, prosperous life. You will have boldness and confidence where doubt and fears once reigned.
God's Word is something to get excited about. Many people get excited about sports, literary greatness, science, politics, etc. I will say to you that God's Word is the greatest thing to get excited about and to herald in all the world. Jesus Christ came that we might have life and have it more abundantly--now this is worth talking about!! God's Word is His Will and it is up to us to recognize the integrity and accuracy of His Word and put off our man-made constructs so that we are not destroyed due to a lack of knowledge of His wonderful matchless Word.
Knowing what is available, how to receive it and what to do with it after you've got it in the natural realm is simple. We are taught that from an early age. When we wanted to eat we just asked for it. When we wanted to fix dinner we went to the store and bought the food or obtained it from our gardens and brought it in and prepared it; however, many of us do not know what is available spiritually, let alone how to receive it or what to do with it after we've received it. Receiving spiritual things is just as easy as receiving things in the natural realm when we know how.
How To Receive It
After we learn what is available in God's Word we need to know how to receive it and desire it. Receiving God's promises are just as simple as receiving things in the natural realm. We have learned that an abundant life is available, so how do we receive it? It does me very little good to know that an abundant life is available if I don't know how to receive it and what to do with it after I've got it.
Matthew 6
:31 Therefore take no thought, saying,
What shall we eat?
or, What shall we drink?
or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:)
for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God,
and his righteousness;
and all these things shall be added unto you.
How am I to get all my needs met? Seek God first, believe His Word. Don't fret about where our next meal is to come from or where the clothes we are to wear comes from; God will provide it all.
Luke 6
:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you;
good measure,
pressed down,
and shaken together,
and running over,
shall men give into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Here is another key to living the more than abundant life. This is more than just having your needs met. Give and God shall fill up your cup with an excellent amount (not just enough to get by, good measure), pressing it down, shaking it together to settle it and get the air out, and having more put in so that it runs over. That's our God!!
These are just a few of the principles that we need to know, believe and do in order to tap the resources of the more-than-abundant life that God has provided for us. God tells us in Ephesians 6 how to combat the wiles of the devil and has given us the tools to do so and what to do with the tools. God instructs us in Romans 8 on how to renew our minds and pray so that we can walk with our Father and live a lively life not consumed by the carnal things of this world.
We can be told that we should pray, we can be told that we should give, and we can be told that we should renew our minds but that will never do us any good unless we are told how to receive and have the desire. This is what we need to know is how to receive the abundance in God's Word.
What To Do With It After You've Got It
We also need to know what to do with it after we've got it. What good is it, or what is the profit, if I receive things from God but I don't know how to use them? In the natural realm, if you knew a garden hoe was available and you obtained one but you used it as a shovel it wouldn't work very well would it? This is the same principle in the spiritual realm. You can receive the gift of God which is holy spirit and if you don't know what to do with it after you've got it you couldn't use it to its fullest potential. We must find out what to do with the things of God after we have received them. This will allow us to tap the resources of the more-than-abundant life.
Here is a great example of what is available, how to receive it what to do with it after you've got it all rolled into one.
I Corinthians 12
:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
What is available: The manifestations of the spirit of God
How to receive it: It is given to us when we were made whole/born again (Romans 10:9, 10)
What to do with it: To use to profit withal--to be all together profitable
The uses:
:8 For to one [profit] is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;
to another [profit] the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
:9 To another [profit] faith by the same Spirit;
to another [profit] the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
:10 To another [profit] the working of miracles;
to another [profit] prophecy;
to another [profit] discerning of spirits;
to another [profit] divers kinds of tongues;
to another [profit] the interpretation of tongues:
:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit,
dividing to every man severally [his own] as he [the man] will. [has the desire to]
In order to tap the resources of the more than abundant life we need the tools to do so. The nine manifestations of the holy spirit are the tools that the we use to live that more than abundant life that God has promised us.
Ephesians 2
:10 For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
When we are born again of God's spirit we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works. This is what you do with it after you've got it.
II Timothy 3
:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for [which is] instruction in righteousness:
:17 That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.
God has given us His Word directly from Him so that we can have the doctrine, reproof and correction which is instruction in right living so that we may be perfect--complete, lacking nothing--throughly furnished unto all good works. The good works do not come first. God has given us His Word and holy spirit so that we may have the ability to do the good works.
Well, we have some much more interesting items to discuss.
Has anyone EVER noticed that the counterfeit Christ can look all physically bright and glowing and Hollywood handsome, just like the genuine?
Has anyone EVER noticed that the counterfeit Christ can physically raise people off the ground like he did Jesus in the desert?
Has anyone EVER noticed that the counterfeit Christ can make it look just like some long lost loved one was just raised from the dead?
Has anyone EVER noticed that the counterfeit Christ can counterfeit the simplistic, five senses view of the Gathering Together we have been holding onto for years?
Has anyone noticed that we were told to grow up to deal with this “slight” problem of Christ’s credentials by mastering some special instructions, some special revelation God has supplied to us in English?
Has anyone EVER noticed that the world as we once knew it is OVER, and that IT’S TIME to rise up and meet the Lord in the air?
Nope. Because of the 2nd to last question -- I'm guessing it's all somewhere in pfal, eh?
Mike I have recieved no messages from you except for what is on this thread, since I first agreed to reread the books.. I even checked my blocked mail list and my spam guard in case a message got inadvertantly hung up there, nope nada. still waiting, if you gets the books in the mail (priority) by Tuesday they should make it to Alaska by the !5th with no problem
Thank you for working with this topic. I agree with you here, but I think we need to better understand what earth means and what air means and the clouds too.
I do not believe those words are supposed to convey to us the normal five senses understanding. The word “earth” is often used to mean the earthly realm, the real of the five senses.
The word “air” also has a spiritual meaning far greater than an oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide mix. We were given the verse and the PFAL teaching to, if we are immersed in PFAL mastery, associate “air” with what comes out of God’s breath, the God-breathed air of His revelation in written form.
Also, the word “cloud” has a special scriptural use in the cloud of witnesses, those believers in the God-breathed that serve as our examples in troubled times.
[Note that tl "working with him" here in no way suggests
I almost brought Post #295’s information to WW’s attention when he blew his horn on that topic a few days ago, but I remembered all too well how numb he can be to actual data, and it just would have been lost.
[Mike's accusing ME of being "numb to actual data".
It's almost like standup comedy sometimes.
It's like Dubya accusing the Democrats of being too hawkish.]
Still, it’s interesting to see how fast he and others buried #295 with no comments of substance.
[That was the post where Mike spoke about some encounters with some people,
mainly one guy who's now dead and unable to confirm Mike even
MET him, let alone any comments Mike makes about him.
Therefore, it is of LIMITED relevance to the discussion,
being entirely unverifiable.
And just because our comments were not appreciated by Mike neither
makes them unappreciated by others, nor of no substance.
Frankly, people are thankful for our posts, and some of them tell
US so, (or at least ME, I haven't conducted a poll or anything),
and some of them have told Paw. ]
I noticed the same thing with my 22 “Thus saith the Lord” statements. Oakspear looked at them a bit, but no one else did bite.
[They were dumped on a thread, not presented in any fashion
that even suggested you were open to discussion on them.
One possible suggestion would have been actually
OUTLINING them, such as giving the ACTUAL QUOTE,
and page. Therefore, even if we have the page,
we can only GUESS which sentence Mike is referring
to. That means he doesn't want to discuss them.
Of course, that means no one can confirm Mike's
distorting their meaning. Clever of Mike to
forestall confirmation he's mutilating the books
again.]
But actually I do answer some questions, like your question about Dr knowing about “The Joy of Serving” being his last time to teach us, and the syllabus caveat you discovered.
I actually also do answer many more questions, just not the way the askers want me to. Often they want me to stumble and fumble, and when I ask a question as a pedagogical device, they are disappointed that I didn’t walk into their trap. Still I’m eager to answer many of them. If you want to see me lead the way with well designed questions to answers others have asked of me, just play their role sans the trap-intention.
[Actually,
these intended "pedagogical devices" are ALSO
intended as DODGES,
and in NEITHER capacity do they do what Mike wants.
For YEARS, lots of posters have asked Mike
"what is your message? What is your point?
What are you trying to say?"
and trying to get an answer.
For YEARS, Mike has WASTED large blocks of HIS
time and their OWN time by saying anything BUT
a direct answer to their questions.
The little he's done lately is the MOST he's done
to date.
And the last time I remember him being wholly
candid was when he admitted that his approach
to his errors was "never admit an error is an error."
Mike seems to somehow be of the impression that
if he mimicks the FORM of a professor, that
somehow this board will magically transform
into his classroom, where people are already
convinced he has something of substance to say
(rather than him failing to make his case for
years now), and bending over a chair at his
whim. Thus, form would follow function.]
For instance I’m sure there are many grads who know little about the critical Greek texts, just like T-Bone, and they can always (if meek and wanting to learn and not entrap) fill in for T-Bone on taking my invited stroll through the morass those texts conjure. Same with the Mark 16 issue, and same with the identity problems of seeing Jesus.
[Mike's knowledge of the critical Greek texts
does not exceeed what vpw said-
which was outdated at the time the pfal class was
committed to film.
Those seeking understanding of the critical
Greek texts who wish to understand only a snippet
may ask Mike, and maybe he'll answer.
Those seeking to better their understanding
can find MANY resources online,
and a considerable number of books at their
local bookstore.]
I still reserve the right to righteously dodge. Everyone does it. WW is doing it right now with his theory of the “Joy of Serving” not being Dr’s last, and with his concocted story of the PFAL editors posting here that I and Dr are full of baloney.
[i addressed DIRECTLY.
REFUTING is not DODGING, whether or not it is correct.
(Incorrect refutations are not "dodges", they're "refutations.")
As to what was the last teaching vpw addressed to the people,
I DID go into that in detail.
(Mike's having trouble finding it despite knowing WHEN I did so,
which is odd, considering I made a notice BEFORE I did it that
I WOULD, and then one AFTER it that I DID. So, there's the
post, plus the 2 billboards. Mike missed all 3, it seems.
As to Mike's fabrication about what I said about editors of
pfal, I concocted nothing.
I also didn't say Mike is full of baloney.
(Now that Mike HIMSELF has raised the subject,
I will agree with Mike that he IS,
but HE said it first.)
I didn't even address vpw at all when addressing
that. However, as many people see, Mike has this
obsession with linking himself and vpw, even when
there are no grounds for doing so, and no amount
of "I didnt say that" can hide it-from US. It seems
You wrote: “You DON'T call the shots here, and neither do we -- Public Forum -- remember??”
But you misread my post there, JUST LIKE most of the nation misread General Alexander Haig’s famous line that I quoted.
When President Reagan was shot and there was relative pandemonium in many circles of government, Haig took the bull by the horns and stated that he was in charge, then paused, and then added the word “here” to clear up any confusion that might have resulted in misinterpreting his remark.
Haig was only taking charge of what was appropriate for him to command at that time, i.e., the White House, and NOT the entire nation.
Because many distrusted Haig they didn’t hear the word “here” that he had supplied just for their comfort. Instead they thought the worst and thought he was staging a military coup. It amazed me how many people, even to this day, refuse to hear the word “here.”
I am in charge of the immediate context in which my comment came up. I am in charge of whom I deal with in an intimate way, such as supplying books.
***
[since I'm not a political analyst, I won't speculate
on Haig and that incident.
However, I can comment on this one here.
Mike may well determine whom he deals with, and whom he
supplies books to (presuming he even HAS them.)
However, HERE is this thread in this forum in the GSC.
Those who want to learn, who want to hear what they forgot or never absorbed in PFAL are the ones I never want to dodge. I am eager to serve the meek, the coachable. Those who want to only thwart me are in for any trick in the book I think is useful in thwarting them right back.
[Judging from the context of his posting pattern,
"those who want to learn"
must mean
"those who will do things EXACTLY the way MIKE wants,
and follow Mike's rules without question,
and not object."
"Those who want to only thwart" Mike,
from the context,
includes people who want to know, but
DON'T follow Mike off the cliff like lemmings.
Explains why Mike doesn't get converts here,
doesn't it?
People here ALREADY did their time in a
"obey without question" cult,
and do not want ANOTHER.]
Tom Strange complains here that I mistreat people. Yeah, SURE! I drag them onto this thread, prevent them from leaving, and then slap them around.
No, Tom,
here’s the real picture. I come here, not to inflict harm but to serve. People with intent to block my efforts come running at me, but are surprised when I am ready for them and not only occasionally dodge them, but sometimes I head butt them into a stupor where they can’t tell left from right.
Tom, I see you this way when you post what you recently did: You run crying and screaming to complain, “MOMMY, all I tried to do is hit Mike and he HURT me! Mommy, make him stop!”
[Note that this is how Mike ACTUALLY PERCEIVES what goes on here.
He perceives himself as the humble servant,
and any dissent as people whom he nimbly dodges,
and occasionally
"head butts into a stupor where they can't tell left from right."
Now that he's provided the context of his peculiar phrase,
I can contextualize it properly it its previous use
where he blamed someone else because he was
unable to tell the difference between a mailing address
and a pm. Having done that, he claimed the other
person was confused,
and could not "tell left from right".
Apparently, Mike must have pictured himself with his
Having done that, he claimed the other person was confused, and could not "tell left from right
In my initial post telling Mike where to find my mailing address I said it was to the right instead of the left. Mike used this error as the foundation for telling me I wasn't "calm" plus a slew of other character assassination phrases. He also seems to think it was some sort of trap set by me,. In actuality it is what is called dyslexia, a medical condition. However, I am now prepared for Mike to spend two days expounding on how I am inhabited by a devil spurt (perhaps the spirit of Left Right Confusion?? )
I am in charge of whom I deal with in an intimate way, such as supplying books.
It finally clicked what has been bothering me, The insistence on PM's the experiences of other posters. Supplying books is "intimate"???? I receive books from people all the time and give them books, That doesn't imply any sort of intimacy on our parts. There is nothing intimate about Mike and my acquaintance on these boards and certainly no relationship off these boards, intimate or otherwise, nor do I desire for there to be one. Whatever else you have in mind besides just sending the promised books, forget about it , Mike!
You wrote way back in Post #331: “Where are the dead bodies? in the ground. Where then are they rising from? the earth, real tangible earth, If they are rising, they are rising upwards in other words, in the air. The Bible is also very specific about the order of the resurrection first the dead bodies will rise, AND ONLY Jesus Christ can call forth the dead, and then we who are still alive will be caught up in the air to meet him. If nothing else will demonstrate that it is the Real Jesus Christ the sight of millions of graves opening ( not just in cemeteries but wherever a body may be) and the dead bodies rising from them will be enough to convince even the most doubting among us.”
Not necessarily.
I’m very interested in the timing of all these things. Deciding on the exact sequencing of things is not an easy task.
I have no doubt that physical death being conquered is a fundamental part of the end times, but it looks like I Corinthians places it at the end.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the suddenness of it all has been overplayed by many. I see in the added recent revelations of PFAL that events are spread out most of the time and with only one exception are things done quickly.
There is a crucial form of rising that we must not leave out, also. Rising from a physical earth grave is certainly a need for many, but EVERYONE needs to rise from an earth realm bound, senses bound, flesh bound point of view or perspective UP TO a spiritual understanding of things, seeing things as God sees them, seeing Jesus and becoming like him in this superior vision.
We ALL need to rise up and reverses the order of our awareness. We need to LEARN how to downplay the Adam-curses dominance of the five senses and make THEM a still small voice, and attune our hearing to God. With PFAL we can learn this perspective where God is no longer a still small voice.
***
You wrote: “Sometimes, Air is air, Earth is earth and clouds are clouds. This is one of those times.”
Of all times to have NOT a normal senses perspective THIS is THAT time!
PFAL teaches me that air is GOD-BREATHED air.
Earth is our prison and is the senses realm from which we rise up.
The clouds are the written examples we have of others rising up for temporary glimpses of the glory.
***
You wrote: “This description is of a real time event that will be tangible to all in the five senses realm --no need to try to make it into an esoteric mental exercise.”
Look at what you just said. You’re saying that from your perspective the five senses realm is more real than the spiritual. This is to be expected for the natural man’s mind, that the things of God, the spiritual, are foolishness.
Tom Strange said much the same (as well do all other PFAL rejecters) at the end of the Round 1 thread, and this idea of senses dominating over the spiritual became the basis of some of those questions I asked him, and that he is unrighteous dodging.
Allow me to repeat those questions, templelady, as they are now addressed to you as well.
In Post #6 on this thread I recapped how the previous round left off with some of Tom’s post-quotes thusly:
Tom Strange wrote over there in that thread’s Post #1009 the following:
So then you're talking "spiritually" here???
Mike 2/2/04, 12:17am.
"When you see Christ in his glory he will be holding a PFAL book in his hand
and teaching you from it."
Mike 2/3/04 5:22am.
"Jesus Christ appointed Dr his spokesman.
Jesus Christ is VERY interested in PFAL.
He told me so."
Vickles 2/3/04, 7:51pm.
"So, Mike, you weren't kidding about JC coming with a PFAL book in his hand."
Mike, 2/3/04, 7:53pm.
"Totally serious. I've already seen him this way more than once."
...you haven't actually physically seen him? just spiritually???”
Then I responded to Tom in that thread’s last Post #1011 with:
What do you mean by “...just spiritually”???
Is that like “merely spiritually”?
Is there something lacking with spiritually?
Is there something less than “actual” with spiritually?
I think we got a lot of background work to do.
***
Let me ask YOU a question to get you prepared for some answers.
When you see Jesus, how will you know FOR SURE that it’s him, the REAL him and not a counterfeit?
You wouldn’t want to bend the knee and swear loyalty to the wrong god accidentally.
Have you ever thought this through deeply?
I used to do this all the time in the 60’s. I saw all kinds of things then. From those experiences I would say the counterfeit is much more possible than most people think.
This is related to your questions to me, because how are you going to tell if what I saw was counterfeit or not?
What criteria can be used to discern the real Jesus? Finger prints? Iris scan? DNA?
One guy I know used touching the holes in his hands feet and the gash in his side to tell, but he got scolded for that.
How much thought have you put into things like this? I’m serious.
Before I’m allowed to bring you on a tour of the limits of the universe, I have to make sure you can take it. It’s a liability issue. My hands are tied by insurance regulations. You have to be fit to survive the ride, doncha know.
Then I went on and posed a few more questions that have yet to be well addressed by Tom, but you may be more willing and able.
This a set of questions that should not be brushed off as unimportant and ok to dodge righteously. Templelady, I am thankful you are willing to get started on these, as you have started to engage in the these. I’m repeating them for the others who are invited to jump in.
When you see Jesus, how will you know FOR SURE that it’s him, the REAL him and not a counterfeit?
What criteria can be used to discern the real Jesus? Finger prints? Iris scan? DNA?
One guy I know used touching the holes in his hands feet and the gash in his side to tell, but he got scolded for that. WHY?
How much thought have you all put into things like this? I have a large file waiting to get into posting form on this subject as soon as people here are ready. Remember, I mentioned earlier, and demonstrated earlier, that I don’t tell all I know. I yearn for posters here to become genuinely interested in these aspects of our Hope, to be interested in them for the right reasons, and not just for attempting to nail me.
If people dodge to deceive or to cover over a mistake that should be dealt with differently, then it’s an unrighteous dodge.
gee Mike, sounds just like you 99.9% of the time.
It’s like anger. Jesus got angry when it was the right reaction for the situation, AND he didn’t go overboard with it. There is righteous anger and unrighteous anger.
"...AND he didn't go overboard with it." ...does NOT sound like you 99.9% of the time.
...but I'm sure you have your reasons rationalizations...
Since PFAL was written over 25 years ago--Any recent revelations are not from PFAL but from you. I accept that I am now dealing with Mikeian Doctrine here, and I state that I disagree with said doctrine
You wrote: “This description is of a real time event that will be tangible to all in the five senses realm --no need to try to make it into an esoteric mental exercise.”
Look at what you just said. You’re saying that from your perspective the five senses realm is more real than the spiritual. This is to be expected for the natural man’s mind, that the things of God, the spiritual, are foolishness.
Mike if I walk into my kitchen and see the stove on fire, I do not need spiritual revelation to know that my stove is on fire. The five senses do just fine in imparting this information to me. Spiritual revelation is for those things that are not clear from the five sense perspective. Likewise If I see dead bodies rising up from the ground all around me and I start rapidly accelerating into the air , I need no spiritual revelation to tell me what is happening, My sense of eyesight, and the knowledge taht my body is in motion will serve me quite well.
As for "You’re saying that from your perspective the five senses realm is more real than the spiritual" that is again, why should I not be surprised, Mikeian spin doctoring at it's finest. A blanket allegation that in in no way supported by the topic under discussion much less How the poster, In this case myself, actually feels or thinks.
You wrote: “The five senses do just fine in imparting this information to me.”
The five senses work somewhat fine for dealing with the five senses realm, but they are extreme hindrances when trying to receive spiritual information from God.
What I’m trying to point out is that FOR US GRADS, we get can a GREATER VIEW of the Return than what the rest of the world can get. We can see it NOW spiritually in this early spiritual phase.
Here is a passage I have posted many times and should be totally familiar with everyone. Searching this GSC board for the other places where I’ve posted it should bring in many details worth keeping in mind.
GMWD p. 227-228
CHAPTER TWELVE
The Final Victory
The great hope of the Christian Church is the return of Christ and our gathering together unto him. There are aspects of Christ’s return which we find most clearly explained by God’s rightly-divided Word [PFAL writings]. In order to understand the coming of Christ, we must also understand “the mechanics” of his coming. Jesus’ first coming began with his conception and birth and ended with his ascension, over thirty years later. There were many significant phases and events during this time. In this, the second coming is similar: it will also cover a period of time and encompass several significant phases and events.
There are four basic events included in the times of the end, when Christ returns. This is their order: (1) Christ’s coming for the Church, the Body of Christ, to gather them together and meet them in the air; (2) the events of the Book of Revelation with Christ’s coming with the Church; (3) the first and second resurrections; and finally, (4) the very end, the final point [telos], when death is destroyed and all things are subdued to God. Having this background, we can now turn to the Word of God and see its clarity.
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dmiller
Hmmm. Sounds like a teen-ager wanting the keys to the car, on a Friday night. ;)
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dmiller
Mike -- thanks for post #295. :)
You finally answered a question! (Keep it up!). :)
You DON'T call the shots here, and neither do we -- Public Forum -- remember??
When you respond, things go MUCH SMOOTHER.
And it's really nice when you respond to specific questions.
(IMO) -- if folks take the time to ask, decency requires that you answer ----
NOT WITH a *dodge* (ie --- DID YOU SEE MY QUESTIONS??)
but --- with an answer -- It does the heart GOOD!! (Just DO IT!!). :)
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templelady
To continue on the topic of Jesus Christs return. He won't be coming to earth on the first return we will meet him in the clouds. That is why scripture warns against listening to those who say "he is here" or "he is there"
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Mike
templelady,
Thank you for working with this topic. I agree with you here, but I think we need to better understand what earth means and what air means and the clouds too.
I do not believe those words are supposed to convey to us the normal five senses understanding. The word “earth” is often used to mean the earthly realm, the real of the five senses.
The word “air” also has a spiritual meaning far greater than an oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide mix. We were given the verse and the PFAL teaching to, if we are immersed in PFAL mastery, associate “air” with what comes out of God’s breath, the God-breathed air of His revelation in written form.
Also, the word “cloud” has a special scriptural use in the cloud of witnesses, those believers in the God-breathed that serve as our examples in troubled times.
***************************************************************************
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***************************************************************************
***************************************************************************
dmiller,
You wrote: “Mike -- thanks for post #295. __ You finally answered a question! (Keep it up!).”
You’re welcome. I’ve been waiting for the right time to bring up the editors.
It still blows my mind that not only did I stumble into the fellowship I did in 1998, but that God had prepared me for it with meeting and bonding with all those very interesting people. This preparation was very extensive, and I’ve only scratched the surface of it here. This preparation has helped be believe a lot of things I’d have otherwise rejected, even more vehemently than most posters here reject it.
I almost brought Post #295’s information to WW’s attention when he blew his horn on that topic a few days ago, but I remembered all too well how numb he can be to actual data, and it just would have been lost. Still, it’s interesting to see how fast he and others buried #295 with no comments of substance. I noticed the same thing with my 22 “Thus saith the Lord” statements. Oakspear looked at them a bit, but no one else did bite.
But actually I do answer some questions, like your question about Dr knowing about “The Joy of Serving” being his last time to teach us, and the syllabus caveat you discovered.
I actually also do answer many more questions, just not the way the askers want me to. Often they want me to stumble and fumble, and when I ask a question as a pedagogical device, they are disappointed that I didn’t walk into their trap. Still I’m eager to answer many of them. If you want to see me lead the way with well designed questions to answers others have asked of me, just play their role sans the trap-intention.
For instance I’m sure there are many grads who know little about the critical Greek texts, just like T-Bone, and they can always (if meek and wanting to learn and not entrap) fill in for T-Bone on taking my invited stroll through the morass those texts conjure. Same with the Mark 16 issue, and same with the identity problems of seeing Jesus.
***
You wrote: “You DON'T call the shots here, and neither do we -- Public Forum -- remember??”
But you misread my post there, JUST LIKE most of the nation misread General Alexander Haig’s famous line that I quoted.
When President Reagan was shot and there was relative pandemonium in many circles of government, Haig took the bull by the horns and stated that he was in charge, then paused, and then added the word “here” to clear up any confusion that might have resulted in misinterpreting his remark.
Haig was only taking charge of what was appropriate for him to command at that time, i.e., the White House, and NOT the entire nation.
Because many distrusted Haig they didn’t hear the word “here” that he had supplied just for their comfort. Instead they thought the worst and thought he was staging a military coup. It amazed me how many people, even to this day, refuse to hear the word “here.”
I am in charge of the immediate context in which my comment came up. I am in charge of whom I deal with in an intimate way, such as supplying books.
***
You wrote: “When you respond, things go MUCH SMOOTHER.”
But YOU started it!
You were the one who brought the topic off of me and onto the more important matters. I felt that was an important thing to reward.
When others here get their egos turned on to stand-by mode and cozy up to my well designed questions things will go smoother too.
You wrote: “...if folks take the time to ask, decency requires that you answer...”
Sure, assuming that there’s some decency in their asking and some decency in their looking at my FORM of answer, even if it’s a preliminary question designed to get them pointed in the right direction in order to be able to hear the eventual full answer.
You might notice that’s what happened to our conversation last night. I tried to dismiss the topic and you insisted I not, AND you did it not with an insult to me, but with a stating your reasons why you thought it was important.
That showed me that you were working with a standard publishing model where an editor has power over the author. You just weren’t aware that in THIS case Dr was ALSO the publisher. That gave me reason enough to unload all I knew. I often hold onto what I know if I’m convinced the immediate recipient will not understand or appreciate me giving them what they demand.
I encourage you to continue focusing not on me but on the important things. I want to cooperate, but there’s a certain dance that sometimes is involved in some of these very complex matters. I need to see what steps a person knows to proceed with the rest of the show. Sometimes questions are needed and NOT a dodge.
I still reserve the right to righteously dodge. Everyone does it. WW is doing it right now with his theory of the “Joy of Serving” not being Dr’s last, and with his concocted story of the PFAL editors posting here that I and Dr are full of baloney. EVERYBODY dodges, it’s just a matter of whether it’s righteous or not. Jesus dodged his trap-layers. Anyone who uses the “Ignore” feature here or the PM block here is dodging. Dodging is not evil or reprehensible in itself. It can sometimes be the best and most efficient way of dealing with opponents.
Those who want to learn, who want to hear what they forgot or never absorbed in PFAL are the ones I never want to dodge. I am eager to serve the meek, the coachable. Those who want to only thwart me are in for any trick in the book I think is useful in thwarting them right back.
Tom Strange complains here that I mistreat people. Yeah, SURE! I drag them onto this thread, prevent them from leaving, and then slap them around.
No, Tom, here’s the real picture. I come here, not to inflict harm but to serve. People with intent to block my efforts come running at me, but are surprised when I am ready for them and not only occasionally dodge them, but sometimes I head butt them into a stupor where they can’t tell left from right.
Tom, I see you this way when you post what you recently did: You run crying and screaming to complain, “MOMMY, all I tried to do is hit Mike and he HURT me! Mommy, make him stop!”
***
Well, we have some much more interesting items to discuss.
Has anyone EVER noticed that the counterfeit Christ can look all physically bright and glowing and Hollywood handsome, just like the genuine?
Has anyone EVER noticed that the counterfeit Christ can physically raise people off the ground like he did Jesus in the desert?
Has anyone EVER noticed that the counterfeit Christ can make it look just like some long lost loved one was just raised from the dead?
Has anyone EVER noticed that the counterfeit Christ can counterfeit the simplistic, five senses view of the Gathering Together we have been holding onto for years?
Has anyone noticed that we were told to grow up to deal with this “slight” problem of Christ’s credentials by mastering some special instructions, some special revelation God has supplied to us in English?
Has anyone EVER noticed that the world as we once knew it is OVER, and that IT’S TIME to rise up and meet the Lord in the air?
A few have.
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templelady
Where are the dead bodies? in the ground. Where then are they rising from? the earth, real tangible earth, If they are rising, they are rising upwards in other words, in the air. The Bible is also very specific about the order of the resurrection first the dead bodies will rise, AND ONLY Jesus Christ can call forth the dead, and then we who are still alive will be caught up in the air to meet him. If nothing else will demonstrate that it is the Real Jesus Christ the sight of millions of graves opening ( not just in cemeteries but wherever a body may be) and the dead bodies rising from them will be enough to convince even the most doubting among us.
Sometimes, Air is air, Earth is earth and clouds are clouds. This is one of those times. This description is of a real time event that will be tangible to all in the five senses realm --no need to try to make it into an esoteric mental exercise.
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templelady
In my case what you have dodged is the opportunity given to you by God to show yourself a man of integrity who keeps his word.
Earlier I posted that It was through the promptings of the Holy Spirit that I was led to ask you for the books you have so long offered. Even as I followed those promptings, after several days of resistance on my part, Heavenly Father was showing me that you would not follow through on your word.
But you have always had freedom of choice, Even though God knew what your initial response would be ----namely a methodology by which you could avoid sending the books----, He has not taken from you the opportunity to repent of your actions and supply the requested materials as you have previously promised on several occasions.
The ball is in your court, You can stand up and be a man of integrity and follow through on your word, (the original word , not the dodging you have done ever since I agreed to reread the books), or you can show yourself to the world as a fraud. God has left the choice in your hands. See that you choose wisely
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Raf
He reserves the right to dodge. Isn't that special. Yet he doesn't recognize others' right to ignore his dodges and get back to their original questions. It's called hypocrisy.
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Mike
Raf,
If you'd read me better, I said that others DO have a right to dodge or ignore, HOWEVER the question that should be raised is if a particular dodge is a RIGHTEOUS one.
If people dodge to deceive or to cover over a mistake that should be dealt with differently, then it’s an unrighteous dodge. It’s like anger. Jesus got angry when it was the right reaction for the situation, AND he didn’t go overboard with it. There is righteous anger and unrighteous anger.
You were all hot and bothered when I’d righteously dodge people trying to tear me down as I was trying to help them with needed information. Then you turned right around and was one of the first to invoke the Ignore feature on me. THAT’S hypocrisy!
Hey, maybe you even invoked that dodge on me for a valid reason, like your mental health, but the hypocrisy of condemning me for what you felt was ok for yourself was not so valid, and now it’s compounded by calling me a hypocrite AND you mislabeling my pedagogical question asking for dodging. You got some housecleaning to do buddy!
***
Now, some of you are asking yourselves, “Why is Mike taking time to discuss dodging when he could be working his stated higher priorities of PFAL.”
Well folks, I must admit that’s a good question, and I think I perceive some of you are asking it from an innocent position of wanting to know, as opposed to wanting to thwart and tear down. So, I will reward the innocent askers with the answer, and give great grace to the not so innocent ones lying in wait to catch me.
In the AC’s “16 Keys to Walking in the Spirit” we see that Key # 8 reads: “Do not tell all you know. Receive Word of Wisdom.”
This is a valuable key, and I am convinced that Dr utilized it in the teaching of the film class and in the production of the book. I long ago perceived this in how Dr goes through such complicated hand-stands to teach that soul is not exactly synonymous with spirit, when all the time he COULD have simply quoted Hebrews 4:12, “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
I saw Dr holding back on other things, dodging in a sense, and applying this Key #8 to some of his teachings. It bothered me at first, until I took the AC in 1975 and came to understand Key #8 a little.
Then, for all you perpetual skeptics, if you don’t want to accept my perceptions of Dr’s applying this key, he came right out and said so at the beginning of CF&S that he didn’t teach us all he knew in PFAL because if he had, so he said, then we’d not come back for more.
***
Sorry folks, that’s all the time I have right now. Consider this a dodge of all the other recent posts, but don’t get all shook. It’s only a trivial scheduling priority dodge. I have an appointment, but I’ll be back.
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CM
God has given us a promise in His Word that we, as Christians, often times fail to manifest. In John 10:10 Jesus Christ is speaking to the religious leaders of his time.
John 10
:10 . . . I am come that they might have life,
and that they might have it more abundantly
Look around you. Do you see God's people living a more abundant life? I see some prospering but not all. Jesus Christ wasn't talking about just the religious leaders prospering or just the select few living abundantly. He was talking about the sheep--the people. We should be prospering. If not, we are missing something. Is God's Word true? Jesus Christ meant what he said and said what he meant.
Let us look a little closer at this verse. Jesus Christ said, "that they might have it more abundantly." He didn't say just abundantly, He said more abundantly. Most people would be willing to live an abundant life but that is not what he said. He said more abundantly!! Listen, if Jesus Christ told the truth than there must be keys available, there must be principals available in God's Word that will instruct us and guide us into the more than abundant life. This is exactly what this series of teachings will do.
The purpose of these teachings is to give you the keys to live the more abundant life that God wants for His children. In the Old Testament, when God's people adhered to His Word and did His commandments they lived abundantly. We live in a new day and a new age yet the principal remains. When we live according to the Word that is written to us we will live a life that is more than abundant; we will live a life that is not just abundant but more than abundant. Let us not limit God in our lives. I want the keys and principle that you learn here to be a safe anchorage in a sea of doubt. When storms arise you can go to God and His Word for solace and deliverance. We need to return to the keys and principles in God's Word to eliminate the confusion and doubt that surrounds us. These keys work with a mathematical exactness and scientific precision and are set so that we may know, without a shadow of a doubt, the Word that God has so graciously given us.
The very first lesson we must learn is this:
The greatest secret in the world today is that
The Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God.
This may sound simple but most people don't believe that God said what He meant and meant what He said. People will take one part of the scripture and say, "Yes, I believe that." And then they will take another verse and remark, "Well, I just find that hard to believe." The Bible is the revealed Word and Will of God. God has given us everything we need to live a more than abundant life. He has given us everything so that we can have a true and vital spiritual relationship with God and it is written in His Word. Now, we either take it all or leave it all. We have no right to take one verse and discard another. The Bible is either God's Word and God's Will from Genesis to Revelation or none of it is. This will be a stumbling block to some but for those who hunger and thirst after God's Will they will dive into God's Word and immerse themselves in His truths.
Let me ask you a question. Why do Christians falter? Why do God's people have trouble when He says that abundance is ours?
Jeremiah 2
:13 For my people have committed two evils;
they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters,
and hewed them out cisterns,
broken cisterns,
that can hold no water.
Who is God talking to? He says, "My people." His people. In the Old Testament it is the Children of Israel. Today it is all who call up on the name of the Lord Jesus. What have they done? They have committed two evils: they have forsaken God, the fountain of living waters, and they have hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. What is a fountain? A fountain is a unlimited supply of water. What is a cistern? A cistern is a large man-made container. It holds a limited supply of water, and if it is cracked the water will not remain.
God said His people have forsaken the fountain of living water and constructed for themselves their own cisterns, their own ideologies and theories that are broken and limited. What do you want to rely on? Do you want to experience the benefits of a fountain with living water or depend on a man-made, cracked cistern that can only hold so much? I choose the fountain of living waters.
So, if we have hewed out for ourselves these broken cisterns that can hold no water what is our greatest transgression?
Matthew 22
:37 Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul,
and with all thy mind.
:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Because the first and greatest commandment is to love God with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength, it is logical that our greatest transgression--our greatest sin--is to not love God with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength. Our greatest sin is to not love the creator of the heavens and the earth that has given us life and a life that is more than abundant. Our greatest transgression is to not love God who has forgiven our trespasses and healed our diseases. Our greatest sin is to not love God with every fiber of our being. Anytime we exalt anything above God we break the first and greatest commandment. Anytime we construct our own ideologies and theologies instead of adhering to the wonderful, matchless Word of God we transgress.
Hosea 4
:6a My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: . . .
What destroys God's people? A lack of knowledge. Look around us today. In mankind there is a vast amount of knowledge. Man knows so much now that even the specialist have to further specialize. Is God talking about worldly knowledge? No. He is talking about the knowledge that sits like diamonds in His glorious Word. He is talking about the revealed Word and Will of God. People are destroyed because they lack an accurate knowledge of God's Word.
The intention of these teachings is to bring people back to the accuracy and integrity of God's Word. When you know God's Word, when you know God's Will and are walking with Him you will have power to live a more abundant life. You will live a vibrant, prosperous life. You will have boldness and confidence where doubt and fears once reigned.
God's Word is something to get excited about. Many people get excited about sports, literary greatness, science, politics, etc. I will say to you that God's Word is the greatest thing to get excited about and to herald in all the world. Jesus Christ came that we might have life and have it more abundantly--now this is worth talking about!! God's Word is His Will and it is up to us to recognize the integrity and accuracy of His Word and put off our man-made constructs so that we are not destroyed due to a lack of knowledge of His wonderful matchless Word.
dodge that!!! lol
Back to the subject Mike!
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CM
Living Abundantly
According to God's Word
Keys to Receiving from God's Word
Read Time: 12 Minutes
Knowing what is available, how to receive it and what to do with it after you've got it in the natural realm is simple. We are taught that from an early age. When we wanted to eat we just asked for it. When we wanted to fix dinner we went to the store and bought the food or obtained it from our gardens and brought it in and prepared it; however, many of us do not know what is available spiritually, let alone how to receive it or what to do with it after we've received it. Receiving spiritual things is just as easy as receiving things in the natural realm when we know how.
How To Receive It
After we learn what is available in God's Word we need to know how to receive it and desire it. Receiving God's promises are just as simple as receiving things in the natural realm. We have learned that an abundant life is available, so how do we receive it? It does me very little good to know that an abundant life is available if I don't know how to receive it and what to do with it after I've got it.
Matthew 6
:31 Therefore take no thought, saying,
What shall we eat?
or, What shall we drink?
or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:)
for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God,
and his righteousness;
and all these things shall be added unto you.
How am I to get all my needs met? Seek God first, believe His Word. Don't fret about where our next meal is to come from or where the clothes we are to wear comes from; God will provide it all.
Luke 6
:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you;
good measure,
pressed down,
and shaken together,
and running over,
shall men give into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Here is another key to living the more than abundant life. This is more than just having your needs met. Give and God shall fill up your cup with an excellent amount (not just enough to get by, good measure), pressing it down, shaking it together to settle it and get the air out, and having more put in so that it runs over. That's our God!!
These are just a few of the principles that we need to know, believe and do in order to tap the resources of the more-than-abundant life that God has provided for us. God tells us in Ephesians 6 how to combat the wiles of the devil and has given us the tools to do so and what to do with the tools. God instructs us in Romans 8 on how to renew our minds and pray so that we can walk with our Father and live a lively life not consumed by the carnal things of this world.
We can be told that we should pray, we can be told that we should give, and we can be told that we should renew our minds but that will never do us any good unless we are told how to receive and have the desire. This is what we need to know is how to receive the abundance in God's Word.
What To Do With It After You've Got It
We also need to know what to do with it after we've got it. What good is it, or what is the profit, if I receive things from God but I don't know how to use them? In the natural realm, if you knew a garden hoe was available and you obtained one but you used it as a shovel it wouldn't work very well would it? This is the same principle in the spiritual realm. You can receive the gift of God which is holy spirit and if you don't know what to do with it after you've got it you couldn't use it to its fullest potential. We must find out what to do with the things of God after we have received them. This will allow us to tap the resources of the more-than-abundant life.
Here is a great example of what is available, how to receive it what to do with it after you've got it all rolled into one.
I Corinthians 12
:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
What is available: The manifestations of the spirit of God
How to receive it: It is given to us when we were made whole/born again (Romans 10:9, 10)
What to do with it: To use to profit withal--to be all together profitable
The uses:
:8 For to one [profit] is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;
to another [profit] the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
:9 To another [profit] faith by the same Spirit;
to another [profit] the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
:10 To another [profit] the working of miracles;
to another [profit] prophecy;
to another [profit] discerning of spirits;
to another [profit] divers kinds of tongues;
to another [profit] the interpretation of tongues:
:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit,
dividing to every man severally [his own] as he [the man] will. [has the desire to]
In order to tap the resources of the more than abundant life we need the tools to do so. The nine manifestations of the holy spirit are the tools that the we use to live that more than abundant life that God has promised us.
Ephesians 2
:10 For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
When we are born again of God's spirit we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works. This is what you do with it after you've got it.
II Timothy 3
:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for [which is] instruction in righteousness:
:17 That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.
God has given us His Word directly from Him so that we can have the doctrine, reproof and correction which is instruction in right living so that we may be perfect--complete, lacking nothing--throughly furnished unto all good works. The good works do not come first. God has given us His Word and holy spirit so that we may have the ability to do the good works.
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dmiller
Nope. Because of the 2nd to last question -- I'm guessing it's all somewhere in pfal, eh?
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Raf
So when Mike dodges, it's righteous. When we refuse to let him dodge, it's not righteous. Everyone got that?
Hypocrite.
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templelady
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WordWolf
[Note that tl "working with him" here in no way suggests
Mike will actually "sh* or get off the pot"
by sending her the books as he initially promised
before he changed his mind.]
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WordWolf
[WordWolf's comments in boldface as usual.]
Edited by WordWolfLink to comment
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WordWolf
[since I'm not a political analyst, I won't speculate
on Haig and that incident.
However, I can comment on this one here.
Mike may well determine whom he deals with, and whom he
supplies books to (presuming he even HAS them.)
However, HERE is this thread in this forum in the GSC.
The admin and moderators
"are in charge here."
Mike keeps wishing this would change and that HE
would be in charge here. So far, no such change.]
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WordWolf
[Judging from the context of his posting pattern,
"those who want to learn"
must mean
"those who will do things EXACTLY the way MIKE wants,
and follow Mike's rules without question,
and not object."
"Those who want to only thwart" Mike,
from the context,
includes people who want to know, but
DON'T follow Mike off the cliff like lemmings.
Explains why Mike doesn't get converts here,
doesn't it?
People here ALREADY did their time in a
"obey without question" cult,
and do not want ANOTHER.]
[Note that this is how Mike ACTUALLY PERCEIVES what goes on here.
He perceives himself as the humble servant,
and any dissent as people whom he nimbly dodges,
and occasionally
"head butts into a stupor where they can't tell left from right."
Now that he's provided the context of his peculiar phrase,
I can contextualize it properly it its previous use
where he blamed someone else because he was
unable to tell the difference between a mailing address
and a pm. Having done that, he claimed the other
person was confused,
and could not "tell left from right".
Apparently, Mike must have pictured himself with his
lucha mask on, headbutting people in the arena.]
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CM
better get on the stick mike
I'm catching you fast...
whooops already overtook ya....sorry cya...
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templelady
It finally clicked what has been bothering me, The insistence on PM's the experiences of other posters. Supplying books is "intimate"???? I receive books from people all the time and give them books, That doesn't imply any sort of intimacy on our parts. There is nothing intimate about Mike and my acquaintance on these boards and certainly no relationship off these boards, intimate or otherwise, nor do I desire for there to be one. Whatever else you have in mind besides just sending the promised books, forget about it , Mike!
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Mike
templelady,
I’m a little behind. I’ll try and catch up.
You wrote way back in Post #331: “Where are the dead bodies? in the ground. Where then are they rising from? the earth, real tangible earth, If they are rising, they are rising upwards in other words, in the air. The Bible is also very specific about the order of the resurrection first the dead bodies will rise, AND ONLY Jesus Christ can call forth the dead, and then we who are still alive will be caught up in the air to meet him. If nothing else will demonstrate that it is the Real Jesus Christ the sight of millions of graves opening ( not just in cemeteries but wherever a body may be) and the dead bodies rising from them will be enough to convince even the most doubting among us.”
Not necessarily.
I’m very interested in the timing of all these things. Deciding on the exact sequencing of things is not an easy task.
I have no doubt that physical death being conquered is a fundamental part of the end times, but it looks like I Corinthians places it at the end.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the suddenness of it all has been overplayed by many. I see in the added recent revelations of PFAL that events are spread out most of the time and with only one exception are things done quickly.
There is a crucial form of rising that we must not leave out, also. Rising from a physical earth grave is certainly a need for many, but EVERYONE needs to rise from an earth realm bound, senses bound, flesh bound point of view or perspective UP TO a spiritual understanding of things, seeing things as God sees them, seeing Jesus and becoming like him in this superior vision.
We ALL need to rise up and reverses the order of our awareness. We need to LEARN how to downplay the Adam-curses dominance of the five senses and make THEM a still small voice, and attune our hearing to God. With PFAL we can learn this perspective where God is no longer a still small voice.
***
You wrote: “Sometimes, Air is air, Earth is earth and clouds are clouds. This is one of those times.”
Of all times to have NOT a normal senses perspective THIS is THAT time!
PFAL teaches me that air is GOD-BREATHED air.
Earth is our prison and is the senses realm from which we rise up.
The clouds are the written examples we have of others rising up for temporary glimpses of the glory.
***
You wrote: “This description is of a real time event that will be tangible to all in the five senses realm --no need to try to make it into an esoteric mental exercise.”
Look at what you just said. You’re saying that from your perspective the five senses realm is more real than the spiritual. This is to be expected for the natural man’s mind, that the things of God, the spiritual, are foolishness.
Tom Strange said much the same (as well do all other PFAL rejecters) at the end of the Round 1 thread, and this idea of senses dominating over the spiritual became the basis of some of those questions I asked him, and that he is unrighteous dodging.
Allow me to repeat those questions, templelady, as they are now addressed to you as well.
In Post #6 on this thread I recapped how the previous round left off with some of Tom’s post-quotes thusly:
Tom Strange wrote over there in that thread’s Post #1009 the following:
So then you're talking "spiritually" here???
Mike 2/2/04, 12:17am.
"When you see Christ in his glory he will be holding a PFAL book in his hand
and teaching you from it."
Mike 2/3/04 5:22am.
"Jesus Christ appointed Dr his spokesman.
Jesus Christ is VERY interested in PFAL.
He told me so."
Vickles 2/3/04, 7:51pm.
"So, Mike, you weren't kidding about JC coming with a PFAL book in his hand."
Mike, 2/3/04, 7:53pm.
"Totally serious. I've already seen him this way more than once."
...you haven't actually physically seen him? just spiritually???”
Then I responded to Tom in that thread’s last Post #1011 with:
What do you mean by “...just spiritually”???
Is that like “merely spiritually”?
Is there something lacking with spiritually?
Is there something less than “actual” with spiritually?
I think we got a lot of background work to do.
***
Let me ask YOU a question to get you prepared for some answers.
When you see Jesus, how will you know FOR SURE that it’s him, the REAL him and not a counterfeit?
You wouldn’t want to bend the knee and swear loyalty to the wrong god accidentally.
Have you ever thought this through deeply?
I used to do this all the time in the 60’s. I saw all kinds of things then. From those experiences I would say the counterfeit is much more possible than most people think.
This is related to your questions to me, because how are you going to tell if what I saw was counterfeit or not?
What criteria can be used to discern the real Jesus? Finger prints? Iris scan? DNA?
One guy I know used touching the holes in his hands feet and the gash in his side to tell, but he got scolded for that.
How much thought have you put into things like this? I’m serious.
Before I’m allowed to bring you on a tour of the limits of the universe, I have to make sure you can take it. It’s a liability issue. My hands are tied by insurance regulations. You have to be fit to survive the ride, doncha know.
Then I went on and posed a few more questions that have yet to be well addressed by Tom, but you may be more willing and able.
This a set of questions that should not be brushed off as unimportant and ok to dodge righteously. Templelady, I am thankful you are willing to get started on these, as you have started to engage in the these. I’m repeating them for the others who are invited to jump in.
When you see Jesus, how will you know FOR SURE that it’s him, the REAL him and not a counterfeit?
What criteria can be used to discern the real Jesus? Finger prints? Iris scan? DNA?
One guy I know used touching the holes in his hands feet and the gash in his side to tell, but he got scolded for that. WHY?
How much thought have you all put into things like this? I have a large file waiting to get into posting form on this subject as soon as people here are ready. Remember, I mentioned earlier, and demonstrated earlier, that I don’t tell all I know. I yearn for posters here to become genuinely interested in these aspects of our Hope, to be interested in them for the right reasons, and not just for attempting to nail me.
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Tom Strange
...but I'm sure you have your reasons rationalizations...
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templelady
Since PFAL was written over 25 years ago--Any recent revelations are not from PFAL but from you. I accept that I am now dealing with Mikeian Doctrine here, and I state that I disagree with said doctrine
Mike if I walk into my kitchen and see the stove on fire, I do not need spiritual revelation to know that my stove is on fire. The five senses do just fine in imparting this information to me. Spiritual revelation is for those things that are not clear from the five sense perspective. Likewise If I see dead bodies rising up from the ground all around me and I start rapidly accelerating into the air , I need no spiritual revelation to tell me what is happening, My sense of eyesight, and the knowledge taht my body is in motion will serve me quite well.
As for "You’re saying that from your perspective the five senses realm is more real than the spiritual" that is again, why should I not be surprised, Mikeian spin doctoring at it's finest. A blanket allegation that in in no way supported by the topic under discussion much less How the poster, In this case myself, actually feels or thinks.
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Mike
CM,
Hey! What are you doing posting all that PFAL material?!
Are you trying to steal my act? ;)
But seriously, I'm happy to see you posting that,
unless of course, you changed some key portions to trick me. ;)
In my first scanning it the text looks pretty good. What's your point? :)
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Mike
templelady,
You wrote: “The five senses do just fine in imparting this information to me.”
The five senses work somewhat fine for dealing with the five senses realm, but they are extreme hindrances when trying to receive spiritual information from God.
What I’m trying to point out is that FOR US GRADS, we get can a GREATER VIEW of the Return than what the rest of the world can get. We can see it NOW spiritually in this early spiritual phase.
Here is a passage I have posted many times and should be totally familiar with everyone. Searching this GSC board for the other places where I’ve posted it should bring in many details worth keeping in mind.
GMWD p. 227-228
CHAPTER TWELVE
The Final Victory
The great hope of the Christian Church is the return of Christ and our gathering together unto him. There are aspects of Christ’s return which we find most clearly explained by God’s rightly-divided Word [PFAL writings]. In order to understand the coming of Christ, we must also understand “the mechanics” of his coming. Jesus’ first coming began with his conception and birth and ended with his ascension, over thirty years later. There were many significant phases and events during this time. In this, the second coming is similar: it will also cover a period of time and encompass several significant phases and events.
There are four basic events included in the times of the end, when Christ returns. This is their order: (1) Christ’s coming for the Church, the Body of Christ, to gather them together and meet them in the air; (2) the events of the Book of Revelation with Christ’s coming with the Church; (3) the first and second resurrections; and finally, (4) the very end, the final point [telos], when death is destroyed and all things are subdued to God. Having this background, we can now turn to the Word of God and see its clarity.
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