I do apologize to you all for the length of the post, I'd apologize to paw for the waste of bandwidth but he's the one who allows Mike to play here... :) so no apology is necessary IMO.
As usual, me in Bold,
I’ve shown to you that you did not receive many items the first times you took the class. Maybe then you were operating in the same mob-rule, bandwagon mode that I strongly suspect you’re operating in here
"shown"??? I do believe the correct word would be "claimed"... since nothing was "demonstrated by reasoning or procedure"... yep, "claimed" would be more correct.
You wrote: “Mike, do you have documentation for your bold assertion?”
Yes, just look at how many footnotes are on every page of any good Interlinear.
So... the fact that Interlinears have footnotes and PFAL doesn't make it... what? Mike would like the reader to disregard the fact that the reason that PFAL has very few, if any, footnotes is because it was largely a plagiarized/stolen body of work.
Well, did you read what I wrote? I said I was tired. Did you look at the time stamp on my post? It was 1:38 am PST.
Yet you still had time and energy to type out something else.
If you can’t show some gratitude, I’ll easily relagate you to the cold theologian and/or riff raff category and end conversation with you. You decide.
You'll get nothing and like it!
Have you ever dealt with MANY hostile posters with MANY words shot at you before? If so, show me where.
Probably not... T-Bone's not a pompous, arrogant icehole... at least not most of the time.
Have you ANY patience and human understanding? This is a very childish and impatient demand of yours here?
Of course, Mike would rather waste his limited time and energy scolding you than answering your questions.
If you want to dish out tough talk to me you're going to have to be able to take it too! Kabish?
Um... Mike... it's either "capeesh" or "capisce"... if you're going to sound it out to spell it, at least use "P".
E-gads man! Want me to change your diapers for you? I’m trying to have a dialog with you and you are acting like a two-year-old temper tantrum artist.
Takes one to know one.
If you want me to work with you like I have worked with some of the much more civil ladies here in recent days, just say so.
Do you mean like you did with Templelady perhaps? Where you chided her, mocked her religious choice and spoke to her in a condescending manner while scolding her?
Hardly any grads can answer them
Primarily because they only exist in Mike's mind.
I’m not going to bite your head off and refuse you more discussion if you can’t answer the questions
This should be comforting considering Mike just did 'bite [his] head off and [threatened to] refused [him] more discussion'...
I mentioned to templelady above how I've distanced myself from the charge of claiming that PFAL 'replaces" the bible. Did you see it?
PFAL has Bible verses on nearly every page.
I think PFAL is like a necessary supplement to the Bible versions we have. The Bible is addressed to “Jew, Gentile, or the church of God.” PFAL is addressed to grads.
Well now... PFAL is a "supplement to the Bible versions we have"? This is far different than anything you've said before Mike. Does this mean that now the "Bible versions we have" replace PFAL on your table of challenge?
I think that the quality of the revelations Dr and his editors and his teachers got that ended up becoming printed PFAL... the quality of those revelations is IDENTICAL to the quality of the revelations to the original Bible writers.
Hmmm, maybe I spoke too soon...
I think all these "think" items are not merely my opinions, but the absolute truth, or otherwise I wouldn' think them, much less post them, much MUCH less bet my life on them. They are truth and that's why I'm embraced them, and not vice versa.
However, just as Mike did with "PFAL replaces the Bible" he may in the future "distance himself" from them... even though he considers them 'the absolute truth'... because with Mike, absolute truth is relative.
This set of questions I asked of Tom Strange, he and others here strangely avoided dealing with, dodging them like I have always asserted we all do at times.
Mike, you are not only insane, you are a LIAR. Anyone who wants to waste their time can go back and read where I addressed your questions/statements which were dodging answering my questions...
(WW, did you notice this dodge?)
He probably didn't because I didn't dodge, you did.
Well, anyway T-Bone, I posed these questions to him in much the same way I posed questions to you: to use the responses as a springboard to my ultimate grand thesis here, right in line with your second post to me last night. I’m giving you a hint to one of the approaches I contemplated in responding to you.
Of course it's "much the same way"..It's Mike's M.O. dodge, distract, avoid... ummm no answer though was there?
I noticed long ago here at GSC that whenever I got down to some specifics on the Return of Christ it’s almost totally ignored by the usual suspects. Maybe their muses are troubled by the imminence of it.
Yes... that's right... it's our "muses" that tell us to ignore you Mike...my muse is named "Common Sense"
I show up here for a dialog, not to hop-to-it, write a bunch of essays before short deadlines pass, and meet the demands of posters to produce whatever whims waft through them.
But Mike does expect you to 'hop to it' and meet his demands... and he's much too tired and worn out from his long day to actually simply answer a direct question but not too tired to beat around the bush and make demands of you.
You got me intrigued with just how much I should reveal.
Here Mike leaves his usual "allure" of actually answering sometime in the future. Personally I've been waiting for that to happen ever since I first asked Mike a question.
Mike, I amverydisappointed in both your condescending/insulting words to me and in dodging my simple question. I will not stoop to such a childish form of debate. You said you would address my request for your basic tenets of beliefs at a later time – WHY didn't you respond like that to my other question [on providing evidential support for your claim on the inaccessibility of ancient scriptures & etc.]?
Perhaps the disparity of your responses eludes you – so I'll explain. I asked for a brief, concise, specific statement of your basic beliefs – 2 or 3 sentences. I would assume you already know what they are and could have easily posted them – but you gave me a rain-check on that. My other question which asked you to document the reasons for your bold assertion [for which I thought you would have given me a rain-check on] you jump right on and instead of providing any specific evidence – you ASK ME to look for it myself! Is that how research papers are submitted nowadays? A person posits a theory and conclusion – but the middle of the research paper is an empty page with the heading at the top "This page intentionally left blank – fill it in yourself after you find evidence to back up my claim." I have taken the time to break down your statement [listed below inbold red] followed by my question below it to give you some direction:
The ancient scriptures
Define both terms and specify time-frame. Provide specific names of texts/references.
are not accessible,
Define term and qualify.
and the modern man-made reconstructions of them
Define terms; specify time-frame and all reconstructions you researched.
are FAR from definitive,
Quantify terms and qualify standard of reference.
shifting about constantly
Define terms and quantify duration, occurrence, frequency.
by the latest
Specify time-frame
theological fads
Specify and qualify terms, provide standard of reference, list theological pedigree of each citation noting point of deviation from said reference.
in translation and manuscript rating.
Provide list of all translations and manuscript rating systems you researched.
You accept this point as one you have made then go on to talk about 22 claims (not proofs) you have posted. I was quite specific-- I want Book, page number, and quote from written PFAL to support this. As for the time involved you probably took 30-40 minutes if not more to post the reply you gave. You could have done what I asked in under 15 since I am sure you have read the material enough that you have it memorized or close to it.
2) We don't need any versions of the Bible anymore, only PFAL.
you dispute this is one of your positions so it is off the table
3) Christ is currently learning from PFAL and will be teaching from PFAL materials when he returns
"I don't think there are going to be any passages that help you believe this. " in other words this is an extrapolation by you and not found in VPWs written form of PFAL
4) Betraying Dr's revelations is betraying God.
again, by your own admission, an extrapolation by you and not found in VPW"s written PFAL
5) Studying PFAL will defeat death
again, by your own admission, an extrapolation by you and not found in VPW"s written PFAL
6) I feel that VPW should be the final authority on what PFAL says or doesn't say, after all he wrote the books
we are in agreement here
Mike, it is irrelevant what my thought processes are. YOU are the one who keeps exhorting us to come back the the Written PFAL. The PFAL written by VPW. I posted five points regarding certain claims made. One point we have dismissed as not yours, the remaining four points you have not been able to provide a single quote from VPWs written PFAL that supports them. By your own admission, VPW is the final authority about what is or isn't in written PFAL.
The reality is that you ARE NOT teaching VPWs written PFAL here on this forum. You are teaching Mike's extrapolation of VPWs written PFAL. Not the same thing. Do I mind that you are teaching extrapolation?, no. What I mind is you trying to shore up your extrapolations by claiming that they are found in VPWs written PFAL when they clearly aren't.
Get honest with yourself, and the rest of us and admit that what you are propounding on this thread is not VPWs work but your own.
Here is the abbreviated version (Mike asked me to not use the term 'synopsis') so you won't have to lose your sight and mind reading all of his posts:
Mike has stated that: PFAL is 'God's Word reissued'.
Mike has stated that this means we don't need any versions of the Bible anymore, only PFAL.*
Mike has stated that PFAL is the Word of God, that the Holy Spirit has provided us with His Word in written form in PFAL, and it (PFAL) carries all the authority of God Almighty.
Mike has offered a 'Table of Challenge' (which he claims exposes things which some would prefer to keep hidden away) so that we may have access to his advanced abilities and approval.
Mike has stated that Christ is currently learning from PFAL and will be teaching from PFAL materials when he returns.
Mike has stated that betraying Dr's revelations is betraying God.
Mike has stated that you just need to feed that Christ inside with the pure Word of PFAL.
Mike has stated that studying PFAL will defeat death.
*as of 5/3/06 Mike has now 'distanced' from that statement, however he would like the reader to know that he considers PFAL to be revelation from God and equal to the revelation from God in the Bible.
These are his statements of belief that are supplied for the reader because if you ask Mike directly what his statements of belief are he will never give you a direct answer. Mike has made all of these statements on the boards here at the GSC. Mike was directly asked about every single statement, in context, at the time the statements were made. Mike has elected to never answer/address them directly with anything more than "because I said so" or "the only way you will ever know the answers is to "master" PFAL using only techniques ascribed to by Mike... and Mike will most likely treat you like a piece of dirt while doing so.
Please feel free, gentle reader, to ask Mike directly about any of these. Maybe you will get a direct answer.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled program...
I posted five points regarding certain claims made. One point we have dismissed as not yours, the remaining four points you have not been able to provide a single quote from VPWs written PFAL that supports them. By your own admission, VPW is the final authority about what is or isn't in written PFAL.
MO, which point was "not his"? He now 'distances' from one point... is that what you're talking about?
The reality is that you ARE NOT teaching VPWs written PFAL here on this forum. You are teaching Mike's extrapolation of VPWs written PFAL. Not the same thing. Do I mind that you are teaching extrapolation?, no. What I mind is you trying to shore up your extrapolations by claiming that they are found in VPWs written PFAL when they clearly aren't.
MO, you (and the rest of us) just cannot see it until you've mastered it... don't you understand this? Please contact Mike via PM and he'll be happy to make sure that you follow the proper process.
Get honest with yourself, and the rest of us and admit that what you are propounding on this thread is not VPWs work but your own.
MO, it will be zero degrees celsius here in DFW in July when that happens.
T-Bone... did you complete your assignment yet? Let me know if you need any research materials... I've still got all of my books and reference library from the TWI days.
(I keep it around because I was told that it wards off evil spirits)
Thanks, Tom - but I do have all of my old PFAL books, TWI reference material, and a modest research library - Tonto threatens to buy a bigger house if I keep adding on to it - I have slowed down quite a bit [although I will confess I just sent off for the 4 volume set of Norman Geisler's Systematic Theology and The New International Commentary on the Old Testament: Job from Christian Book Distributors]. Concerning the "assignment" - I intend to let Mike provide the evidence for his own claim.
Yes, Tom - geez I got the email on that...Boy, I can't wait for casual Friday...Oh - er - I may have jumped the gun on that - I'm currently wearing 30 pieces of flair.
Oh no Tom !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't tell me you're having a bad case of the Mondays that's lasted till Wednesday !!!!!!!!!!!!!! here - drink quickly my friend - don't delay - the very joy of your soul is at stake - if that's what ails you - or is it you can have any drink you want at Steak and Ale?
All you have done is confirm that this issue in question is not found in Written PFAL. If it's not in Written PFAL, per your instructions it can be ignored.
Second I do not find the use of the word "balance either in the written PFAL or the Taped PFAL you quoted so I can see no answer regarding my previous questions on this subject regarding how from written PFAL we are to differentiate when to use which. Please supply direct quotes from VPW's books that explain this. Thank you
You wrote: “If it's not in Written PFAL, per your instructions it can be ignored.”
Has it occurred to you that you may not have my instructions quite accurate? It should. If I really mean we should ignore the film class, they why would I post it and violate my own instructions? I urge you to think things through and not behave like an insolent teenager, trying to show off for the mob with feigned cooperation with me, all the while deliberately giving me a hard time. Remember, your responses are going down in irretrievable history and the whole world is watching!
Another poorly thought through item here is if I advocate ignoring the film class, then why would I bother with even more scrutiny of the film class in wanting to figure out how to post my split screen comparison of film to book? Your failure to have thought this testifies to either a lack of mental acuity or a lack of cooperation and acting skills.
Still another point: why would I undertake the mammoth project of the split screen comparison for myself if the film is to be ignored.
Do you see? You got my instructions wrong. Should I be surprised?
The film class is an introduction to the book. The red drapes story is useful for new students, but not needed in the final focus of the book. For people like you the introduction phase is clearly not yet over.
***
You wrote: “Second I do not find the use of the word ‘balance’ either in the written PFAL or the Taped PFAL you quoted so I can see no answer regarding my previous questions on this subject regarding how from written PFAL we are to differentiate when to use which. Please supply direct quotes from VPW's books that explain this.”
Well, if you look more closely I only included 33 words from the book, and they are in bold font at the beginning of that green section. I mention this but you missed it, just like you missed many things in the class as demonstrated here, and just like you missed the meaning of my "instructions" that the printed material takes precedence over the spoken in demanding our focus and mastery.
I know your reading skills are sufficient to understand English from your ability to write competent English grammar, but you seem to be allocating precious little time and/or attention to the subjects at hand.
I noticed weeks ago that your retention of the class was abnormally low many respects as well. You seem to focus well on the soap opera here, and I suspect that when you were in the ministry it was social situations you only focused on, and the class material was a mere background for you. The same is probably happening in your Mormon church, because I know how serious my Mormon friends and customers are about doctrine and they'd NEVER waste as much time on a non-Mormon discussion board as you do.
In other words, YOU"RE BUSTED! You are a social butterfly! You use the Mormon church as a social setting for to flit about, just like you use GSC, and just like you used TWI and the PFAL class as a place to play social games, only playing along with doctrinal matters. I see right through you. Don't feel too bad, though, you have plenty of company. MANY grads were more focused on the social matters in TWI and not the deep matters of the class. A lot of them ended up here in this rich social setting as evidenced by their poor grasp on the doctrine of PFAL and strong susceptibility and compliance with TVTs. Even many leaders were only in for the social salaams and the future abundant sharing or ministry paycheck.
***
I only included only 33 words from the book and they happen to deal with needs and wants. There are MANY more and if I get some split screen help I'll post them along with their corresponding words in the film class.
***
For people like you, non-serious students of the class material and bandwagon joy riders, it is ESPECIALLY the case that if you come back to written PFAL and FINALLY get serious about the subject matter, just you and God (no social distractions), then the wealth of wonderful light you will discover will be truly astounding to you!
You have hardly scratched the surface of PFAL, and my offer to get you the books stands. It will literally change your life in a most profound and positive way. You have NO IDEA what you missed back then, and you are almost totally oblivious to what your are on the verge of turning down from me as you favor the fleeting camaraderie of a low brow crowd of “Mike Opposition.” I suggest you think about it a little bit before you waste your second grand opportunity to see the True God.
Mike, there's no need for you to be such a "rick with a P" to Templelady.
And you actually wonder why people don't want to have anything to do with you?
I've said it before and it still holds true: It's not the message, it's the messenger.
If you would just try a little bit not to be such a condescending icehole to people, maybe some would stay around to listen to your drivel.
You owe Templelady an apology, nothing she said or did deserved the way you treated her... but then, you treat everyone like sh1t don't you? Just like your 'father in the word' veepee...
Why bother... responses to the arrogant SOB in bold:
Has it occurred to you that you may not have my instructions quite accurate? It should.
of course it has you swine... you change your 'instructions' almost on a post by post basis.
If I really mean we should ignore the film class, they why would I post it and violate my own instructions?
I don't know... why did you do that? Did you forget?
I urge you to think things through and not behave like an insolent teenager, trying to show off for the mob with feigned cooperation with me, all the while deliberately giving me a hard time. Remember, your responses are going down in irretrievable history and the whole world is watching!
yeah... and we urge you not to be such a huge 'rick with a P' but that doesn't stop you.
Another poorly thought through item here is if I advocate ignoring the film class, then why would I bother with even more scrutiny of the film class in wanting to figure out how to post my split screen comparison of film to book?
One can never tell with you, but you do that all of the time.
Your failure to have thought this testifies to either a lack of mental acuity or a lack of cooperation and acting skills.
No, see Mike, she did think it through... you just don't have your excuses in order so you resort to name calling.
Still another point: why would I undertake the mammoth project of the split screen comparison for myself if the film is to be ignored.
Ummm... cuz you're insane?
Do you see? You got my instructions wrong. Should I be surprised?
Surprised that you are able to function in the 'real world'... yes.
The film class is an introduction to the book. The red drapes story is useful for new students, but not needed in the final focus of the book. For people like you the introduction phase is clearly not yet over.
Oh! So now the film class is an introduction to the book? How convenient.
You wrote: “Second I do not find the use of the word ‘balance’ either in the written PFAL or the Taped PFAL you quoted so I can see no answer regarding my previous questions on this subject regarding how from written PFAL we are to differentiate when to use which. Please supply direct quotes from VPW's books that explain this.”
Hey Jerk-off, where's the word 'balance'?
Well, if you look more closely I only included 33 words from the book, and they are in bold font at the beginning of that green section. I mention this but you missed it, just like you missed many things in the class as demonstrated here, and just like you missed the meaning of my "instructions" that the printed material takes precedence over the spoken in demanding our focus and mastery.
Hey Jerk-off, where's the word 'balance'?
I know your reading skills are sufficient to understand English from your ability to write competent English grammar, but you seem to be allocating precious little time and/or attention to the subjects at hand.
Hey Jerk-off, where's the word 'balance'?
I noticed weeks ago that your retention of the class was abnormally low many respects as well. You seem to focus well on the soap opera here, and I suspect that when you were in the ministry it was social situations you only focused on, and the class material was a mere background for you.
Hey Jerk-off, where's the word 'balance'?
The same is probably happening in your Mormon church, because I know how serious my Mormon friends and customers are about doctrine and they'd NEVER waste as much time on a non-Mormon discussion board as you do.
Well Mikey... were they also in a f'd up cult prior to discovering LDS? What about your "Brain" doctors? (did you ever hear of the term 'neuro'??? You pompous a$$wipe.
"I'm all done, that'll be $40 and by the way, did you know that PFAL is God-breathed?"
In other words, YOU"RE BUSTED! You are a social butterfly! You use the Mormon church as a social setting for to flit about, just like you use GSC, and just like you used TWI and the PFAL class as a place to play social games, only playing along with doctrinal matters. I see right through you. Don't feel too bad, though, you have plenty of company. MANY grads were more focused on the social matters in TWI and not the deep matters of the class.
Again, caught by the SUPERIOR POWERS of Mike!
A lot of them ended up here in this rich social setting as evidenced by their poor grasp on the doctrine of PFAL and strong susceptibility and compliance with TVTs. Even many leaders were only in for the social salaams and the future abundant sharing or ministry paycheck.
Well then Mike... how or why did YOU end up here? Only board that will let you post your idolatrous swill? IS IT BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN KICKED OFF OF EVERY SINGLE OTHER BOARD YOU'VE POSTED THIS STUFF ON?
I only included only 33 words from the book and they happen to deal with needs and wants. There are MANY more and if I get some split screen help I'll post them along with their corresponding words in the film class.
If you do, it'll sure be a first. Why not just answer their questions.
For people like you, non-serious students of the class material and bandwagon joy riders, it is ESPECIALLY the case that if you come back to written PFAL and FINALLY get serious about the subject matter, just you and God (no social distractions), then the wealth of wonderful light you will discover will be truly astounding to you!
As long as you do it exactly how Mike tell's you to! If you don't see the same answers Mike does, it's because you have not done it as instructed.
You have hardly scratched the surface of PFAL, and my offer to get you the books stands. It will literally change your life in a most profound and positive way. You have NO IDEA what you missed back then, and you are almost totally oblivious to what your are on the verge of turning down from me as you favor the fleeting camaraderie of a low brow crowd of “Mike Opposition.” I suggest you think about it a little bit before you waste your second grand opportunity to see the True God.
Of course, that's assuming you're still talking to Mike.. even though he's stomped all over you and treated you like krap... he'll help you... Mike, you sure do sound just like your idol veepee and his protege LCM... they'd be proud of you.
On this second issue I will qualify thusly: “The Joy of Serving” teaching may very well have been, even probably was, PREPARED by Dr for teaching before he delivered “The Hope.”
Hmmmmmmmmmmm. (That speaks volumes).
Still another point: why would I undertake the mammoth project of the split screen comparison for myself if the film is to be ignored.
I (we) don't know what you are doing.
And given the fact that you have told me MANY times that
the film was only an *introduction* to the books ----------
It surprises me that you spend any time there at all. :)
I know that I haven't been around in a while - but you are getting meaner, it seems.
People have the right to ask questions. They have the right to doubt your beliefs - this is, afterall, America.
There really is an easier way to go about all of this - but you seem to think it is not feesible.
Put ALL your thoughts in a paper. You keep poo-poohing the idea, but even if you think that there is no way to prove that a work is "God-breathed," you could at least make your whole argument without constant interuption and others could take all your words in the context you mean them.
OTHO - then you would also have it all out. Then everyone could hold you to your own words. This could be a plus or a minus - based on the strength of your arguments.
This thread had gotten fairly civil. I am sad that it has gotten so mean spirited. It is hard to convince anyone of anything once you have insulted them - and even though you don't like the thought - you have the burden of proof here because you are trying sway unwilling "students" to your way of thinking.
You are ignoring all the civil conversation I have with a few, AND ignoring all the baloney that's thrown in my direction by some others. How can I take your advice seriously if you have on double blinders?
I think that the ones I am harsh with deserve it, need it, and other more thorough observers need to learn from it in dealing with the baloney thrown at them. We're to be loving, but not doormats. I take my example from how Jesus was that man of steel and velvet. He took no baloney, had anger, and shoved hate back in the faces of some. He was also tolerant at times.
I reject totally your advice because you seem to have these thick blinders on. Take them off and address the far greater doses of baloney that’s thrown at me and you can get my attention. Otherwise you fit into the role of the “good cop” working with the riff raff here who play the role of the “bad cop.” Do you get it? It's a good cop, bad cop team against my message being presented and your on the cops side. I am on the side of challenging the established order. You're with them and you can't fool me. I just don’t buy your one sided approach.
If I saw you gently scolding WordWolf, Tom Strange, and a few others for their reprehensible behavior towards me you would have some credibility with me, but you’ve totally blown it by often showing your bias and blindness. I’m not here to satisfy your stated intentions of wanting to see the children on the playground all getting along, while your actions are all calculated to thwart my message as much as and in unison with the others who want to see PFAL rejected. Get it?
I don’t buy your gentle approach to me at all. If you were to get back to addressing the meat of what I’m posting about instead of the manner in which I bring things up, then I’d let you get away with your bias, but when you try to trick me with some appeal to love I see through it and it offends me. I won't tolerate it.
Quit talking about me and get on track with the message and we can have a conversation, but I will not tolerate your trying to mold me into your wishes all the while rejecting and trying to subvert a very important mission I have.
You wrote: "If it's not in Written PFAL, per your instructions it can be ignored."
Has it occurred to you that you may not have my instructions quite accurate? It should. If I really mean we should ignore the film class, they why would I post it and violate my own instructions? I urge you to think things through and not behave like an insolent teenager, trying to show off for the mob with feigned cooperation with me, all the while deliberately giving me a hard time. Remember, your responses are going down in irretrievable history and the whole world is watching!
Am I supposed to be frightened by this, Upset by this? The same can be said of you too. YOU are the one who has repeatedly chastised posters, on this thread and on others, for citing material from the Tapes instead of sticking to written PFAL. You can't have it both ways, either everything is in, in which case you need to stop demanding that the rest of us stick to or rediscover written PFAL, or you need to stick to written PFAL, of course that is a problem when what you claim is from written PFAL in fact isn't found in written PFAL
Another poorly thought through item here is if I advocate ignoring the film class, then why would I bother with even more scrutiny of the film class in wanting to figure out how to post my split screen comparison of film to book? Your failure to have thought this testifies to either a lack of mental acuity or a lack of cooperation and acting skills.
Still another point: why would I undertake the mammoth project of the split screen comparison for myself if the film is to be ignored.
Do you see? You got my instructions wrong. Should I be surprised?
The fact is I didn't get your instructions wrong. You just changed from the previous instructions to new ones. I suspect you have taken this avenue since you were unable to provide documentation for my original questions from written PFAL.
The film class is an introduction to the book. The red drapes story is useful for new students, but not needed in the final focus of the book. For people like you the introduction phase is clearly not yet over.
Actually there are Books plural and VPW referred to them as collaterals, the definition of collateral is "accompanying as secondary or subordinate" so by VPWs own words written PFAL is secondary or subordinate to the Film class. They are for support of the Film class not the other way around.
***
You wrote: "Second I do not find the use of the word 'balance' either in the written PFAL or the Taped PFAL you quoted so I can see no answer regarding my previous questions on this subject regarding how from written PFAL we are to differentiate when to use which. Please supply direct quotes from VPW's books that explain this."
Well, if you look more closely I only included 33 words from the book, and they are in bold font at the beginning of that green section. I mention this but you missed it, just like you missed many things in the class as demonstrated here, and just like you missed the meaning of my "instructions" that the printed material takes precedence over the spoken in demanding our focus and mastery.
I know your reading skills are sufficient to understand English from your ability to write competent English grammar, but you seem to be allocating precious little time and/or attention to the subjects at hand.
Please compare my statement (in red) with your statement in (in fuchsia) and you will note that I very specifically referred to both the written PFAL and the film PFAL in my response to your response.
I noticed weeks ago that your retention of the class was abnormally low many respects as well. You seem to focus well on the soap opera here, and I suspect that when you were in the ministry it was social situations you only focused on, and the class material was a mere background for you. The same is probably happening in your Mormon church, because I know how serious my Mormon friends and customers are about doctrine and they'd NEVER waste as much time on a non-Mormon discussion board as you do
. Where to start
1. I took PFAL 24 years ago and it appears that I retain more of printed PFAL than you do since you can't seem to find any direct quotes from written PFAL in answer to requests to provide same
2. your suspicions on both counts are wrong. I am not a social butterfly, more than 10 people in a room for maore than 2 hours makes me queasy and I much prefer studying and writing to "cocktail chatter ". That must be why in my stint in TWI I usually gave a least one teaching a week, usually two, and in the LDS Church I am a Gospel Doctrine teacher as well as the ward historian.
3 considering the number of LDS there are in the world and considering that you probably don't know more than 200 and that's being generous I would say that you have a very small pool from which to gather any reliable data about what LDS do or don't do with their time. I do find the use of the phrase "waste as much time" particularly telling. A Freudian slip perhaps, indicating that you post here not so much out of a desire to enlighten as a desire to have something to do. IS it possible that this is YOUR ONLY Social interaction???
In other words, YOU"RE BUSTED! You are a social butterfly! You use the Mormon church as a social setting for to flit about, just like you use GSC, and just like you used TWI and the PFAL class as a place to play social games, only playing along with doctrinal matters. I see right through you. Don't feel too bad, though, you have plenty of company. MANY grads were more focused on the social matters in TWI and not the deep matters of the class. A lot of them ended up here in this rich social setting as evidenced by their poor grasp on the doctrine of PFAL and strong susceptibility and compliance with TVTs. Even many leaders were only in for the social salaams and the future abundant sharing or ministry paycheck.
Actually you are busted, You cannot provide evidence from written PFAL to support your contentions because by your own admission, it doesn't exist in VPW works.You have elevated the collaterals to a status higher than the filmed class in direct contradiction to VPW's own point of view. You have personally attacked me through outright falsehood, innuendo, and character assassination. There is a poster on these forums who has cited many objections about my faith, even he has never sunk to the depths you have with your falsehoods about my character. He at least has some knowledge about What LDS teach and believe, you clearly demonstrate that you lack even that much understanding, which is hardly surprising since you are unable to grasp the difference between what is printed on a page and what is going on only in your mind.
***
I only included only 33 words from the book and they happen to deal with needs and wants. There are MANY more and if I get some split screen help I'll post them along with their corresponding words in the film class.
***
For people like you, non-serious students of the class material and bandwagon joy riders, it is ESPECIALLY the case that if you come back to written PFAL and FINALLY get serious about the subject matter, just you and God (no social distractions), then the wealth of wonderful light you will discover will be truly astounding to you!
You have hardly scratched the surface of PFAL, and my offer to get you the books stands. It will literally change your life in a most profound and positive way. You have NO IDEA what you missed back then, and you are almost totally oblivious to what your are on the verge of turning down from me as you favor the fleeting camaraderie of a low brow crowd of "Mike Opposition." I suggest you think about it a little bit before you waste your second grand opportunity to see the True God.
I hereby challenge YOU to come back to written PFAL. Just as it was written by VPW, no extrapolations, no interpretations, no Mikeian ideology. I realize that that is a tremendous blow to your ego, but as long as the subject is PFAL the only words I want to hear in support of PFAL ARE THE WORDS VPW EITHER SPOKE OR WROTE GOT IT???
As for seeing the True GOD, I do every day as He walks beside me on this journey called life.
Mike posted May 4 2006 2:26 AM [Mike's words in bold red]
"doojable, You are ignoring all the civil conversation I have with a few, AND ignoring all the baloney that's thrown in my direction by some others. How can I take your advice seriously if you have on double blinders? I think that the ones I am harsh with deserve it, need it, and other more thorough observers need to learn from it in dealing with the baloney thrown at them. We're to be loving, but not doormats. I take my example from how Jesus was that man of steel and velvet. He took no baloney, had anger, and shoved hate back in the faces of some. He was also tolerant at times."
Maybe you should also take the words of Jesus to heart so you can be an exemplary follower of his – Matthew 5:23 "…if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift." And John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." I think it would be hypocritical to ignore the callous, vicious, and unchristian manner you deal with anyone that disagrees with you – and just continue having a polite "intellectual" conversation.
Mike, I think you owe Doojable and Templelady a huge apology. They are both very intelligent, gracious Christian women. Doojable I recall from even my TWI days as a woman mighty in the Scriptures and powerful in loving deeds. I am always impressed by Templelady's posts and have grown fond of her after our playful banter on some Silly threads. I don't view either of these women [or anyone for that matter] in terms of what denomination they belong to – after awhile a person's character has a way of coming out – and in my mind becomes the dominant image of that person. I think about that anytime I post or have a face-to-face conversation. I think of the old line, "What you're doing is so loud I can't hear what you're saying."
"I reject totally your advice because you seem to have these thick blinders on. Take them off and address the far greater doses of baloney that's thrown at me and you can get my attention."
Mike, as I review threads and posts it looks to me like people are challenging an idea you've forwarded – like I did on an above post. Do you think my serious questions are baloney?
"Otherwise you fit into the role of the "good cop" working with the riff raff here who play the role of the "bad cop." Do you get it? It's a good cop, bad cop team against my message being presented and your on the cops side. I am on the side of challenging the established order. You're with them and you can't fool me. I just don't buy your one sided approach. If I saw you gently scolding WordWolf, Tom Strange, and a few others for their reprehensible behavior towards me you would have some credibility with me, but you've totally blown it by often showing your bias and blindness. I'm not here to satisfy your stated intentions of wanting to see the children on the playground all getting along, while your actions are all calculated to thwart my message… Quit talking about me and get on track with the message and we can have a conversation, but I will not tolerate your trying to mold me into your wishes all the while rejecting and trying to subvert a very important mission I have."
Mike, again it looks to me like people are trying to figure out what your message is by asking you specific questions. I don't mean to burst your bubble – but you're ruining a golden opportunity. People have asked you [myself included] to list your beliefs, explain your doctrine and clearly specify your message – and you chide them for not going back to PFAL and figuring out what YOUR message is. You're not helping your own cause. Mike, please – for the sake of your own mission: stand back and look at what you're doing – THAT'S what is thwarting your message.
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Tom Strange
I do apologize to you all for the length of the post, I'd apologize to paw for the waste of bandwidth but he's the one who allows Mike to play here... :) so no apology is necessary IMO.
As usual, me in Bold,
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T-Bone
Mike, I am very disappointed in both your condescending/insulting words to me and in dodging my simple question. I will not stoop to such a childish form of debate. You said you would address my request for your basic tenets of beliefs at a later time – WHY didn't you respond like that to my other question [on providing evidential support for your claim on the inaccessibility of ancient scriptures & etc.]?
Perhaps the disparity of your responses eludes you – so I'll explain. I asked for a brief, concise, specific statement of your basic beliefs – 2 or 3 sentences. I would assume you already know what they are and could have easily posted them – but you gave me a rain-check on that. My other question which asked you to document the reasons for your bold assertion [for which I thought you would have given me a rain-check on] you jump right on and instead of providing any specific evidence – you ASK ME to look for it myself! Is that how research papers are submitted nowadays? A person posits a theory and conclusion – but the middle of the research paper is an empty page with the heading at the top "This page intentionally left blank – fill it in yourself after you find evidence to back up my claim." I have taken the time to break down your statement [listed below in bold red] followed by my question below it to give you some direction:
The ancient scriptures
Define both terms and specify time-frame. Provide specific names of texts/references.
are not accessible,
Define term and qualify.
and the modern man-made reconstructions of them
Define terms; specify time-frame and all reconstructions you researched.
are FAR from definitive,
Quantify terms and qualify standard of reference.
shifting about constantly
Define terms and quantify duration, occurrence, frequency.
by the latest
Specify time-frame
theological fads
Specify and qualify terms, provide standard of reference, list theological pedigree of each citation noting point of deviation from said reference.
in translation and manuscript rating.
Provide list of all translations and manuscript rating systems you researched.
[edited for the intellectually challenged]
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Tom Strange
And that was three years ago (almost)... (when I first asked him a question)
Mike, you never told me... did you like my line "I'm all done, that'll be $40 and by the way PFAL is God-breathed"...
Is that how you leave your accounts when your work is finished?
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templelady
1) PFAL is "God breathed"
You accept this point as one you have made then go on to talk about 22 claims (not proofs) you have posted. I was quite specific-- I want Book, page number, and quote from written PFAL to support this. As for the time involved you probably took 30-40 minutes if not more to post the reply you gave. You could have done what I asked in under 15 since I am sure you have read the material enough that you have it memorized or close to it.
2) We don't need any versions of the Bible anymore, only PFAL.
you dispute this is one of your positions so it is off the table
3) Christ is currently learning from PFAL and will be teaching from PFAL materials when he returns
"I don't think there are going to be any passages that help you believe this. " in other words this is an extrapolation by you and not found in VPWs written form of PFAL
4) Betraying Dr's revelations is betraying God.
again, by your own admission, an extrapolation by you and not found in VPW"s written PFAL
5) Studying PFAL will defeat death
again, by your own admission, an extrapolation by you and not found in VPW"s written PFAL
6) I feel that VPW should be the final authority on what PFAL says or doesn't say, after all he wrote the books
we are in agreement here
Mike, it is irrelevant what my thought processes are. YOU are the one who keeps exhorting us to come back the the Written PFAL. The PFAL written by VPW. I posted five points regarding certain claims made. One point we have dismissed as not yours, the remaining four points you have not been able to provide a single quote from VPWs written PFAL that supports them. By your own admission, VPW is the final authority about what is or isn't in written PFAL.
The reality is that you ARE NOT teaching VPWs written PFAL here on this forum. You are teaching Mike's extrapolation of VPWs written PFAL. Not the same thing. Do I mind that you are teaching extrapolation?, no. What I mind is you trying to shore up your extrapolations by claiming that they are found in VPWs written PFAL when they clearly aren't.
Get honest with yourself, and the rest of us and admit that what you are propounding on this thread is not VPWs work but your own.
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Tom Strange
Gentle Reader,
Here is the abbreviated version (Mike asked me to not use the term 'synopsis') so you won't have to lose your sight and mind reading all of his posts:
Mike has stated that: PFAL is 'God's Word reissued'.
Mike has stated that this means we don't need any versions of the Bible anymore, only PFAL.*
Mike has stated that PFAL is the Word of God, that the Holy Spirit has provided us with His Word in written form in PFAL, and it (PFAL) carries all the authority of God Almighty.
Mike has offered a 'Table of Challenge' (which he claims exposes things which some would prefer to keep hidden away) so that we may have access to his advanced abilities and approval.
Mike has stated that Christ is currently learning from PFAL and will be teaching from PFAL materials when he returns.
Mike has stated that betraying Dr's revelations is betraying God.
Mike has stated that you just need to feed that Christ inside with the pure Word of PFAL.
Mike has stated that studying PFAL will defeat death.
*as of 5/3/06 Mike has now 'distanced' from that statement, however he would like the reader to know that he considers PFAL to be revelation from God and equal to the revelation from God in the Bible.
These are his statements of belief that are supplied for the reader because if you ask Mike directly what his statements of belief are he will never give you a direct answer. Mike has made all of these statements on the boards here at the GSC. Mike was directly asked about every single statement, in context, at the time the statements were made. Mike has elected to never answer/address them directly with anything more than "because I said so" or "the only way you will ever know the answers is to "master" PFAL using only techniques ascribed to by Mike... and Mike will most likely treat you like a piece of dirt while doing so.
Please feel free, gentle reader, to ask Mike directly about any of these. Maybe you will get a direct answer.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled program...
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Tom Strange
Me to MO in Bold:
T-Bone... did you complete your assignment yet? Let me know if you need any research materials... I've still got all of my books and reference library from the TWI days.
(I keep it around because I was told that it wards off evil spirits)
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templelady
Tom that would be point 2. Distancing would probably be more accurate, but in the interest of not getting bogged down I let it go. :)
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T-Bone
Thanks, Tom - but I do have all of my old PFAL books, TWI reference material, and a modest research library - Tonto threatens to buy a bigger house if I keep adding on to it - I have slowed down quite a bit [although I will confess I just sent off for the 4 volume set of Norman Geisler's Systematic Theology and The New International Commentary on the Old Testament: Job from Christian Book Distributors]. Concerning the "assignment" - I intend to let Mike provide the evidence for his own claim.
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Tom Strange
mmm... well... all I can say is "Don't forget to put cover sheets on your TPS reports"...
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T-Bone
Yes, Tom - geez I got the email on that...Boy, I can't wait for casual Friday...Oh - er - I may have jumped the gun on that - I'm currently wearing 30 pieces of flair.
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Tom Strange
IMO one can never have too many pieces of flair... especially on Mondays...
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T-Bone
Oh no Tom !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't tell me you're having a bad case of the Mondays that's lasted till Wednesday !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
here - drink quickly my friend - don't delay - the very joy of your soul is at stake - if that's what ails you - or is it you can have any drink you want at Steak and Ale?
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Tom Strange
ya know... sometimes... as one of my pieces of flair I wear my WOW pin...
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templelady
I'm sorry Mike,
Your post about the red drapes has me mystified.
All you have done is confirm that this issue in question is not found in Written PFAL. If it's not in Written PFAL, per your instructions it can be ignored.
Second I do not find the use of the word "balance either in the written PFAL or the Taped PFAL you quoted so I can see no answer regarding my previous questions on this subject regarding how from written PFAL we are to differentiate when to use which. Please supply direct quotes from VPW's books that explain this. Thank you
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Mike
Templelady,
You wrote: “If it's not in Written PFAL, per your instructions it can be ignored.”
Has it occurred to you that you may not have my instructions quite accurate? It should. If I really mean we should ignore the film class, they why would I post it and violate my own instructions? I urge you to think things through and not behave like an insolent teenager, trying to show off for the mob with feigned cooperation with me, all the while deliberately giving me a hard time. Remember, your responses are going down in irretrievable history and the whole world is watching!
Another poorly thought through item here is if I advocate ignoring the film class, then why would I bother with even more scrutiny of the film class in wanting to figure out how to post my split screen comparison of film to book? Your failure to have thought this testifies to either a lack of mental acuity or a lack of cooperation and acting skills.
Still another point: why would I undertake the mammoth project of the split screen comparison for myself if the film is to be ignored.
Do you see? You got my instructions wrong. Should I be surprised?
The film class is an introduction to the book. The red drapes story is useful for new students, but not needed in the final focus of the book. For people like you the introduction phase is clearly not yet over.
***
You wrote: “Second I do not find the use of the word ‘balance’ either in the written PFAL or the Taped PFAL you quoted so I can see no answer regarding my previous questions on this subject regarding how from written PFAL we are to differentiate when to use which. Please supply direct quotes from VPW's books that explain this.”
Well, if you look more closely I only included 33 words from the book, and they are in bold font at the beginning of that green section. I mention this but you missed it, just like you missed many things in the class as demonstrated here, and just like you missed the meaning of my "instructions" that the printed material takes precedence over the spoken in demanding our focus and mastery.
I know your reading skills are sufficient to understand English from your ability to write competent English grammar, but you seem to be allocating precious little time and/or attention to the subjects at hand.
I noticed weeks ago that your retention of the class was abnormally low many respects as well. You seem to focus well on the soap opera here, and I suspect that when you were in the ministry it was social situations you only focused on, and the class material was a mere background for you. The same is probably happening in your Mormon church, because I know how serious my Mormon friends and customers are about doctrine and they'd NEVER waste as much time on a non-Mormon discussion board as you do.
In other words, YOU"RE BUSTED! You are a social butterfly! You use the Mormon church as a social setting for to flit about, just like you use GSC, and just like you used TWI and the PFAL class as a place to play social games, only playing along with doctrinal matters. I see right through you. Don't feel too bad, though, you have plenty of company. MANY grads were more focused on the social matters in TWI and not the deep matters of the class. A lot of them ended up here in this rich social setting as evidenced by their poor grasp on the doctrine of PFAL and strong susceptibility and compliance with TVTs. Even many leaders were only in for the social salaams and the future abundant sharing or ministry paycheck.
***
I only included only 33 words from the book and they happen to deal with needs and wants. There are MANY more and if I get some split screen help I'll post them along with their corresponding words in the film class.
***
For people like you, non-serious students of the class material and bandwagon joy riders, it is ESPECIALLY the case that if you come back to written PFAL and FINALLY get serious about the subject matter, just you and God (no social distractions), then the wealth of wonderful light you will discover will be truly astounding to you!
You have hardly scratched the surface of PFAL, and my offer to get you the books stands. It will literally change your life in a most profound and positive way. You have NO IDEA what you missed back then, and you are almost totally oblivious to what your are on the verge of turning down from me as you favor the fleeting camaraderie of a low brow crowd of “Mike Opposition.” I suggest you think about it a little bit before you waste your second grand opportunity to see the True God.
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Tom Strange
Mike, there's no need for you to be such a "rick with a P" to Templelady.
And you actually wonder why people don't want to have anything to do with you?
I've said it before and it still holds true: It's not the message, it's the messenger.
If you would just try a little bit not to be such a condescending icehole to people, maybe some would stay around to listen to your drivel.
You owe Templelady an apology, nothing she said or did deserved the way you treated her... but then, you treat everyone like sh1t don't you? Just like your 'father in the word' veepee...
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Tom Strange
Why bother... responses to the arrogant SOB in bold:
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dmiller
I (we) don't know what you are doing.
And given the fact that you have told me MANY times that
the film was only an *introduction* to the books ----------
It surprises me that you spend any time there at all. :)
And I agree with Tom -- you owe Mo an apology.
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doojable
Mike,
I know that I haven't been around in a while - but you are getting meaner, it seems.
People have the right to ask questions. They have the right to doubt your beliefs - this is, afterall, America.
There really is an easier way to go about all of this - but you seem to think it is not feesible.
Put ALL your thoughts in a paper. You keep poo-poohing the idea, but even if you think that there is no way to prove that a work is "God-breathed," you could at least make your whole argument without constant interuption and others could take all your words in the context you mean them.
OTHO - then you would also have it all out. Then everyone could hold you to your own words. This could be a plus or a minus - based on the strength of your arguments.
This thread had gotten fairly civil. I am sad that it has gotten so mean spirited. It is hard to convince anyone of anything once you have insulted them - and even though you don't like the thought - you have the burden of proof here because you are trying sway unwilling "students" to your way of thinking.
A brother offended .....
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dmiller
I don't mind answering questions.
Shucks -- if someone asks -- it's worthy of an answer.
What I don't get --- is the absolute refusal to answer questions,
then relegate them to the *back-burner*,
and ignore them until they go *away*. :(
but hey -- that's *just me* (anyone concurr??)
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Mike
doojable,
You are ignoring all the civil conversation I have with a few, AND ignoring all the baloney that's thrown in my direction by some others. How can I take your advice seriously if you have on double blinders?
I think that the ones I am harsh with deserve it, need it, and other more thorough observers need to learn from it in dealing with the baloney thrown at them. We're to be loving, but not doormats. I take my example from how Jesus was that man of steel and velvet. He took no baloney, had anger, and shoved hate back in the faces of some. He was also tolerant at times.
I reject totally your advice because you seem to have these thick blinders on. Take them off and address the far greater doses of baloney that’s thrown at me and you can get my attention. Otherwise you fit into the role of the “good cop” working with the riff raff here who play the role of the “bad cop.” Do you get it? It's a good cop, bad cop team against my message being presented and your on the cops side. I am on the side of challenging the established order. You're with them and you can't fool me. I just don’t buy your one sided approach.
If I saw you gently scolding WordWolf, Tom Strange, and a few others for their reprehensible behavior towards me you would have some credibility with me, but you’ve totally blown it by often showing your bias and blindness. I’m not here to satisfy your stated intentions of wanting to see the children on the playground all getting along, while your actions are all calculated to thwart my message as much as and in unison with the others who want to see PFAL rejected. Get it?
I don’t buy your gentle approach to me at all. If you were to get back to addressing the meat of what I’m posting about instead of the manner in which I bring things up, then I’d let you get away with your bias, but when you try to trick me with some appeal to love I see through it and it offends me. I won't tolerate it.
Quit talking about me and get on track with the message and we can have a conversation, but I will not tolerate your trying to mold me into your wishes all the while rejecting and trying to subvert a very important mission I have.
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templelady
***
Please compare my statement (in red) with your statement in (in fuchsia) and you will note that I very specifically referred to both the written PFAL and the film PFAL in my response to your response. . Where to start1. I took PFAL 24 years ago and it appears that I retain more of printed PFAL than you do since you can't seem to find any direct quotes from written PFAL in answer to requests to provide same
2. your suspicions on both counts are wrong. I am not a social butterfly, more than 10 people in a room for maore than 2 hours makes me queasy and I much prefer studying and writing to "cocktail chatter ". That must be why in my stint in TWI I usually gave a least one teaching a week, usually two, and in the LDS Church I am a Gospel Doctrine teacher as well as the ward historian.
3 considering the number of LDS there are in the world and considering that you probably don't know more than 200 and that's being generous I would say that you have a very small pool from which to gather any reliable data about what LDS do or don't do with their time. I do find the use of the phrase "waste as much time" particularly telling. A Freudian slip perhaps, indicating that you post here not so much out of a desire to enlighten as a desire to have something to do. IS it possible that this is YOUR ONLY Social interaction???
Actually you are busted, You cannot provide evidence from written PFAL to support your contentions because by your own admission, it doesn't exist in VPW works.You have elevated the collaterals to a status higher than the filmed class in direct contradiction to VPW's own point of view. You have personally attacked me through outright falsehood, innuendo, and character assassination. There is a poster on these forums who has cited many objections about my faith, even he has never sunk to the depths you have with your falsehoods about my character. He at least has some knowledge about What LDS teach and believe, you clearly demonstrate that you lack even that much understanding, which is hardly surprising since you are unable to grasp the difference between what is printed on a page and what is going on only in your mind. I hereby challenge YOU to come back to written PFAL. Just as it was written by VPW, no extrapolations, no interpretations, no Mikeian ideology. I realize that that is a tremendous blow to your ego, but as long as the subject is PFAL the only words I want to hear in support of PFAL ARE THE WORDS VPW EITHER SPOKE OR WROTE GOT IT???As for seeing the True GOD, I do every day as He walks beside me on this journey called life.
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WordWolf
Mike,
I already replied to it all, and you missed it.
IMHO, they are essentially dead issues, but if you MUST
drag them up, we CAN discuss them.
However,
since you're already QUITE busy,
and supposedly don't have time for all the LIVE
issues on the table,
I'd recommend leaving them as poor uses of
limited resources.
Of course, you can always disregard that and bring
them up again. It would do a disservice to all those
you "don't have time for", however.
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T-Bone
Mike posted May 4 2006 2:26 AM [Mike's words in bold red]
"doojable, You are ignoring all the civil conversation I have with a few, AND ignoring all the baloney that's thrown in my direction by some others. How can I take your advice seriously if you have on double blinders? I think that the ones I am harsh with deserve it, need it, and other more thorough observers need to learn from it in dealing with the baloney thrown at them. We're to be loving, but not doormats. I take my example from how Jesus was that man of steel and velvet. He took no baloney, had anger, and shoved hate back in the faces of some. He was also tolerant at times."
Maybe you should also take the words of Jesus to heart so you can be an exemplary follower of his – Matthew 5:23 "…if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift." And John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." I think it would be hypocritical to ignore the callous, vicious, and unchristian manner you deal with anyone that disagrees with you – and just continue having a polite "intellectual" conversation.
Mike, I think you owe Doojable and Templelady a huge apology. They are both very intelligent, gracious Christian women. Doojable I recall from even my TWI days as a woman mighty in the Scriptures and powerful in loving deeds. I am always impressed by Templelady's posts and have grown fond of her after our playful banter on some Silly threads. I don't view either of these women [or anyone for that matter] in terms of what denomination they belong to – after awhile a person's character has a way of coming out – and in my mind becomes the dominant image of that person. I think about that anytime I post or have a face-to-face conversation. I think of the old line, "What you're doing is so loud I can't hear what you're saying."
"I reject totally your advice because you seem to have these thick blinders on. Take them off and address the far greater doses of baloney that's thrown at me and you can get my attention."
Mike, as I review threads and posts it looks to me like people are challenging an idea you've forwarded – like I did on an above post. Do you think my serious questions are baloney?
"Otherwise you fit into the role of the "good cop" working with the riff raff here who play the role of the "bad cop." Do you get it? It's a good cop, bad cop team against my message being presented and your on the cops side. I am on the side of challenging the established order. You're with them and you can't fool me. I just don't buy your one sided approach. If I saw you gently scolding WordWolf, Tom Strange, and a few others for their reprehensible behavior towards me you would have some credibility with me, but you've totally blown it by often showing your bias and blindness. I'm not here to satisfy your stated intentions of wanting to see the children on the playground all getting along, while your actions are all calculated to thwart my message… Quit talking about me and get on track with the message and we can have a conversation, but I will not tolerate your trying to mold me into your wishes all the while rejecting and trying to subvert a very important mission I have."
Mike, again it looks to me like people are trying to figure out what your message is by asking you specific questions. I don't mean to burst your bubble – but you're ruining a golden opportunity. People have asked you [myself included] to list your beliefs, explain your doctrine and clearly specify your message – and you chide them for not going back to PFAL and figuring out what YOUR message is. You're not helping your own cause. Mike, please – for the sake of your own mission: stand back and look at what you're doing – THAT'S what is thwarting your message.
Edited by T-BoneLink to comment
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