CES Catechesis

[templelady]

I am so enchanted with the LDS thread (THANKS mark )

I decided I wanted to start this one

Just exactly how does CES differ from TWI (aside from the obvious)

Are their any doctrines that CES has removed

Does CES share TWI beliefs on the Nature of Jesus

On the gifts of the spirit etc.

Is CES just TWI without the old leadership or has it evolved into a sect of it's own

I probably have more questions but this will do for starters

[dmiller]

Ha! Now I am on the spot! :blink:

(Raf, Ex10 ---Help!)

Let me get back to you later, on some of these questions. ;)

[allan w.]

If CES shared A THIRD of the things VP taught I'd still go there before any other church !

[Raf]

It's more than a third, Allan. See you there!

[dmiller]

May I make a *claimer/disclaimer* here at the very beginning ---

I support CES, receive the CES rag, tapes, etc., -- but I do not go to any of their fellowships,

since there are none in my area.

I will try to do my best to answer some of your questions, Mo --

but bear in mind -- that I am not THAT closely affiliated. :)

With that being said -- most any question you might have (or you as well, Allan),

about whatever *doctrine CES* holds and teaches, can be found here ---

at TRUTH OR TRADITION, which is run by CES.

Now -- I'll go back, look at some of the questions,

and try to answer them to the best of MY ability.

[dmiller]

Just exactly how does CES differ from TWI (aside from the obvious)

For one thing -- *the powers that be*, are held accountable for their actions.

I don't know how far *down* the ladder this goes, but suffice it to say,

that there has been *reproof* and *correction*, when a mistake has been made,

by those in authority -- but others may know more about this than I do..

Here is the STATEMENT OF BELIEFS,

Here is their CODE OF CONDUCT,

And here is their STATEMENT OF VALUES.

Now -- CES teaches that Jesus is the Son, (not God), and that Holy Spirit is both Giver, and gift,

and yes -- a few of twi's teachings are *re-vamped*, in light of this.

Another web-site that CES has up and operational, is ---

BIBLICAL UNITARIAN, that deals solely with the question of the trinity.

That's enough for a start. I'll have more to say later. :)

Edited April 1, 2006 by dmiller

[allan w.]

Hey Raf..I meant IF there was nowhere else (similar) around for me to go !!

Are you involved with them ? i think it's pretty neat if you are.

David..CFFM encourages people if there is no fellowship close to where they are, then start one up !

[dmiller]

Oh --- and may I add --- CES is also known as STFI (these days).

STFI --- stands for Spirit (and) Truth Fellowship Intenational.

They have a new website --- http://www.stfonline.org , that replaces the old CES one.

They are changing, from when I first got involved (early 90's),

and I'm not sure I like all they are doing now, (just so ya know!)

However -- I find most of the teachings to be solid and good. I liked it better in the *old days*, when stuff was taught that made more sense than now.

But that is me, and my imo. :)

[dmiller]

Hey Raf..I meant IF there was nowhere else (similar) around for me to go !!

Are you involved with them ? i think it's pretty neat if you are.

David..CFFM encourages people if there is no fellowship close to where they are, then start one up !

Allan -- I've thought about it bro, but given my work schedule --

it ain't a'gonna happen. :(

The nearest fellowship (CES) to me is 80 miles away.

Just a little too far --- for an evening with the *family* -- (don't cha know!)

And FYI. Allan ---- Raf (as well as myself, Ex10, and others) think CES is doing a pretty good job, but could meebe stand some improvement!

(That's an *IMO*, on my part!) ;)

Check out the links I provided.

That is CES, talking about what they are into.

You might actually like what they have to say.

[templelady]

THank you for the links-- It is much appreciated

I have thought of another question (suurprised aren't you )

IN CES/STFI theology what is heaven going to be like?

[allan w.]

aaahhh...I think people have enough trouble figuring out what this earth is meant to be like.

[pond]

John S has written a book titled "The christian Hope".

They do not believe in a heaven.

They believe in a recreated EARTH.

"The Christian Hope reafirms in a straightforward yet well-documented way that the everlasting home of the saved will be a lush and EDEN-like EARTH."

That is a direct quote from the back of the book.

I have heard the tape 'paradise regained" a long time ago, he says we will return to this earth in a type of cubicle type thing , it is a very different manner of thinking about a christian living forever.

no heaven for them.

[ex10]

True confession.......I was involved with CES in its infant stages, mainly because I knew the players since I was a teenager who went to summer school and worked on staff.

When hubby and I were callously thrown out of the way, they called and cared. And we happen to live close to some of them, helped them contact people, etc.

Our involvement mainly is about being friends from a distance. We are partners and get the tapes, etc, but truth be told, I am not a "listening to a tape/cd" person. So I haven't in many years.

I would much rather read the bible on my own, and attend my church, or my women's bible study.

But I think the major contribution CES has made to the exway community has been to face doctrinal error and confront it. They haven't been afraid to reexamine alot of bs stuff and fix it. (MY words, sorry.)

Not that I agree with everything they write/say, but they haven't been afraid of changing doctrine because of VPW adulation. (Thank, goodness.) Everything is worth scrutiny. That's what I love and appreciate about them.

And besides, nobody ever, anywhere, gets the OT like John Schoenheit. He can resolve the best (and worst) of contradictions, and make stuff FIT. Gotta love the guy for that. :wub:

And he is the best person ever to go to Israel with, cause he loves the country, and knows so much, having spent so much time there.

PS I am going to the CES conference in Munich. Just because I was talking to Mark about something unrelated, and he invited me, and it works out that I can see friends while there. Daughter and I were going to be in Europe anyway. I am a total social creature, and can't turn down a trip!

Edited April 2, 2006 by ex10

[Tom Strange]

Very neat! ...you always go on the good trips! ...happy happy joy joy!

[dmiller]

Our involvement mainly is about being friends from a distance.

(snip)

But I think the major contribution CES has made to the exway community has been to face doctrinal error and confront it. They haven't been afraid to reexamine alot of bs stuff and fix it. (MY words, sorry.)

Not that I agree with everything they write/say, but they haven't been afraid of changing doctrine because of VPW adulation. (Thank, goodness.) Everything is worth scrutiny. That's what I love and appreciate about them.

That's a pretty accurate description of my involvement also. Even when I head back to Bloomington, Indiana to visit my folks --- I don't go to the CES fellowships there (and there are several), preferring instead to spend time with my family.

Heavan vs. Paradise -- where will we be?

I'm not going to cut and paste from the Truth or Tradition site on this one.

I'd rather add my personal perspective, and say what I see about it.

There's a few things I don't understand (entirely) myself,

but the basic premise I have is -- we will be in Paradise, not Heavan.

[templelady]

There's a few things I don't understand (entirely) myself

There seems to be a lot of that going around <_<

For those of you who were checking on the LDS thread there is a new one where I correct the misinformation I spewed

[Belle]

I sure thought there were more CES folks on here. I wonder where they are and why they aren't sharing.... :unsure:

[Raf]

I've stopped contributing to CES and no longer request/receive their tapes. I haven't really listened to a tape in well over a year, so I decided to stop pretending I was really a supporter just because I dropped a dime in the coffee can every now and then. Just being honest.

[allan w.]

Thanks for encouraging me to go along then Raf ??!!

[dmiller]

Thanks for encouraging me to go along then Raf ??!!

Raf didn't say that the *doctrine* propounded was necessarily wrong,

though he has hinted it is flawed. ;)

[GarthP2000]

((looking around to make sure everybody else doesn't hear))

ppssssttt!! ... Actually, ... Raf is starting Yet Another Spinoff. ..... known as AO-Hell's Dialups Anonymous

SSSHHHhhhhh!!! Not so loud!! Ya want the big secret to get out?!

[allan w.]

No David, Raf said to me "see you there". I coulda been waiting a lifetime !!

[ex10]

Maybe I just have a "way hangover," but even though my family donates to CES, I don't consider myself a "member" of the organization. We also give to our local church, the homeless shelter, the battered women's shelter, and a few other local charities.

Truth be told, we have given way more to the homeless shelter here, than all the other groups we support put together. I freely admit that I have a big "problem" with pledging my allegiance soley to one group within the body of Christ. That's why I haven't officially joined the church we have been involved with for the last 6 years.

FWIW

[Belle]

I'm seriously surprised to see this thread ignored by CES supporters.

[dmiller]

I'm seriously surprised to see this thread ignored by CES supporters.

I gave out links for folks to check up on whatever question they might have about CES.

TRUTH OR TRADITION, and

BIBLICAL UNITARIAN would answer any question one might have.

I feel better about letting their websites answer the questions --

since I am a *long distance* supporter,

and not locally/actively involved (as mentioned earlier).

Edited April 6, 2006 by dmiller