The Ottoman Empire was huge and powerful, but without engineering on it's side, they were not as easily able to control a large area. IT expended much more of their effort just to maintain control of their own empire.
As a someone with a degree in history, I understand the importance of documentation otherwise history is as Voltaire so elegantly stated, "...is a pack of tricks that we play upon the dead." No doubt, you will be able to provide us source material for your historical conclusion that the Ottoman Empire lacked engineering expertise. Won't you?
and Yangie adds:
A history of philosophy teacher of mine said many yrs ago, " This is an example of a culture that did not experience The Enlightenment and the ensuing Birth of the Modern Mind."
What does your philosophy teacher have to say about that our modern number system and Algebra, without which there could have never been a renaissance in Europe nor an Age of Enlightenment, were gifts from the Islamic world where they flourished during Europe's dark ages. It has been argued that western philosophy has been a rehash of Cartesian Dualism. Descartes was a mathematician and relied heavily upon mathematics (including Algebra) as the basis of his philosophical conclusions.
René Descartes (IPA: /deˈkaʁt/, March 31, 1596 – February 11, 1650), also known as Cartesius, was a noted French philosopher, mathematician, and scientist.Dubbed the "Founder of Modern Philosophy" and the "Father of Modern Mathematics," he ranks as one of the most important and influential thinkers of modern times. For good or bad, much of subsequent western philosophy is a reaction to his writings, which have been closely studied from his time down to the present day. Descartes was one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in the Western World. He is also known for inventing the Cartesian coordinate system used in plane geometry and algebra.
Source: [/i]Wikipedia
So, might it not be put forward the Age of Enlightenment was at least in part if not wholly a product of Islamic culture?
There are ideas and positions that seem reasonable enough until they are tested empirically. That is the province of philosophy.
Moderately Greets! ChattyKathy, the 'inventor' of the guitar - this guy's probably the closest to the title, Antonio de Torres Jurado. He put together most of the features we'd recognize as a modern "acoustic nylon" string guitar in the early part of the 1900's. Neck length, top strut support, scale length, fret placement, bridge setup, all of that stuff.
Prior to that the guitar was being developed over a few hundred years by a lot of different cultures. I may be mixing them up but I think there's two lines of thought, maybe more, on how we ended up with the guitar and one goes back to middle eastern roots and the other looks to the Greeks. Overall stringed instruments go way back 5,000 years to ancient Egypti-era pickers. There's been all kinds, 4, 5,, 6, 8, 12 stringed instruments in all kinds of shapes too.
What came out of the the middle-Eastern instruments was more like a sitar-type instrument. I don't know that I'd call it a "guitar", although it had frets. But the use of the fretboard with imbedded frets and the string pressing into the fretboard against the fret, and set to a scale length for 6 strings that would reliably and consistently produce tuned notes is "generally" attributed to Jurado for being the one who put it together. Was he a Muslim? I don't know to be honest, I've never read he was. Not sure what difference it would make.
Not to say by that that Muslim culture didn't make a contribution but it's a little overblown for anyone to say they "invented" what we today would call a guitar. It's really a culmination of a lot of stringed instrument designs over centuries of time.
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satori001
No, I think it was Halliburton.
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topoftheworld
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oenophile
According to Galen:
As a someone with a degree in history, I understand the importance of documentation otherwise history is as Voltaire so elegantly stated, "...is a pack of tricks that we play upon the dead." No doubt, you will be able to provide us source material for your historical conclusion that the Ottoman Empire lacked engineering expertise. Won't you?and Yangie adds:
What does your philosophy teacher have to say about that our modern number system and Algebra, without which there could have never been a renaissance in Europe nor an Age of Enlightenment, were gifts from the Islamic world where they flourished during Europe's dark ages. It has been argued that western philosophy has been a rehash of Cartesian Dualism. Descartes was a mathematician and relied heavily upon mathematics (including Algebra) as the basis of his philosophical conclusions.
Source: [/i]Wikipedia
So, might it not be put forward the Age of Enlightenment was at least in part if not wholly a product of Islamic culture?
There are ideas and positions that seem reasonable enough until they are tested empirically. That is the province of philosophy.
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socks
Moderately
Greets! ChattyKathy, the 'inventor' of the guitar - this guy's probably the closest to the title, Antonio de Torres Jurado. He put together most of the features we'd recognize as a modern "acoustic nylon" string guitar in the early part of the 1900's. Neck length, top strut support, scale length, fret placement, bridge setup, all of that stuff.
Prior to that the guitar was being developed over a few hundred years by a lot of different cultures. I may be mixing them up but I think there's two lines of thought, maybe more, on how we ended up with the guitar and one goes back to middle eastern roots and the other looks to the Greeks. Overall stringed instruments go way back 5,000 years to ancient Egypti-era pickers. There's been all kinds, 4, 5,, 6, 8, 12 stringed instruments in all kinds of shapes too.
What came out of the the middle-Eastern instruments was more like a sitar-type instrument. I don't know that I'd call it a "guitar", although it had frets. But the use of the fretboard with imbedded frets and the string pressing into the fretboard against the fret, and set to a scale length for 6 strings that would reliably and consistently produce tuned notes is "generally" attributed to Jurado for being the one who put it together. Was he a Muslim? I don't know to be honest, I've never read he was. Not sure what difference it would make.
Not to say by that that Muslim culture didn't make a contribution but it's a little overblown for anyone to say they "invented" what we today would call a guitar. It's really a culmination of a lot of stringed instrument designs over centuries of time.
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ChattyKathy
Socks,
I feel much better now. That was freaking me out.
Thank you for such wonderful detail. You should copy it into your Guitar thread.
Speaking of freaking myself out you'll see I did in your thread
and thankfully all was well.
Good to have you back safely with us.
Kathy
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