Latter Day Saints Catechesis

[templelady]

ON another thread Allen W asked about the prophecies of Joseph Smith, Here is the one that proved to me that the LDS Church is the true church

THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS

SECTION 87

1 VERILY, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;

2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.

3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations.

4 And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.

5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation.

6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full fend of all nations;

7 That the cry of the saints, and of the blood of the saints, shall cease to come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, from the earth, to be avenged of their enemies.

8 Wherefore, stand ye in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come; for behold, it cometh quickly saith the Lord. Amen.

This was written Dec 26 1832 and Joseph Smith died Apr 12, 1844

Fort Sumter was fired on in Dec 26, 1860

The British ran the blockade of the southern states in Nov 1861

The Emancipation Proclamation was in Jan 1863

IN 1844 a man names Karl Marx met Josef Engels The Communist Manifesto was published 1848 and the revolutions and ideas it has sparked reverberate down to our own time

In my mind, the math speaks for itself

Edited April 4, 2006 by templelady

[allan w.]

Actually 30 years out from the beginnings of civil war there was plenty of talk about it, slavery, and other related topics. Either it was a lucky guess or Joe really could have got the info direct from one of his spirit being visitations.

As for the other stuff, generalisation taken from the Bible.

[Oakspear]

At risk of getting another e-mail from dodowap...

ya just can't resist the name-calling, can ya?

[allan w.]

No we can't can we.!

[templelady]

Bumping this to the top so those interested in the anti LDS site thread can read more

[socks]

This was a good read, thank you Templelady. I actually do feel like some vague assumptions I've had about LDS have been cleared up. I've never felt drawn, even back in the Way days when Mormons received moderate praise for their tithing system and perceived relative prosperity. (Telling that the one component worth getting some shine off for the Way involved money). That and the witnessing committment of the young people.

I dated a Mormon girl in high school for a short while. Guess she liked me, at least a little at the time. Her last name was Smith, go figure right? Pigs would be ice skating in hell before her family would have ever accepted a non-Mormon into the household, they were very strict, but I'd been raised Catholic so I was very familiar with that end of it. Guess it must have felt "dangerous" for us, dunno, hard to recall. Kids, right?

I'd assumed for many years that the polygamy stuff was drawn from the OT and David, and their custom of having mulitple wives, or concubines. That topic's interesting, I wonder if there was a practical reason for it way back when, at some point. Conditions in the ancient world may have meant that for a period of time there were simply more women than men, maybe it was a matter of survival. I like the current system of one man, one woman. I'm happy. :)

Edited October 26, 2006 by socks

[Belle]

I wonder, Socks, after reading your post, if the mutliple wives thing came from the fact that many women died in childbirth and prior to the industrial revolution many kids were needed to have hands to work and take care of the family for free.

I know in the South, it was said that the bigger the family the more hands one had to work the farms, but I came from humble beginnings and we couldn't afford slaves, so all the work was done by the parents and chillin'. That's why my Great-Grandmother was so excited to have seven SONS and no girls... that is, till WWII came and took them all away. :(

Makes sense that it would have been the case as far back as time can remember.....to me, anyway.

[templelady]

Actually Polygamy is a very practical lifestyle. You have multiple people to help with Child rearing, housekeeping, etc etc. If one person gets sick there are others to pick up the slack. You have several minds to work on a problem, you have strength of numbers in a physically unstable society. Just to name a few.

Polygamy in the LDS church was instituted by God to make sure that all woman had someone to care for them. A big deal in an era where many men died in accidents, the War of 1812, etc. Woman didn't have the vote, couldn't own property, had no available careers except for dressmaking and housekeeping, maybe a clerk in a store. A woman with children could not teach school. Polygamy was a God send for them. Not htat all wives were happy about it--there were somwe serious objectiopns -- and there were men who didn't live up to their responsibilities. Fallible humans dontcha know. But the idea was sound

[socks]

Could be Belle. I struggle with trying to see the world from any other vantage point than my own, the one I know and live in. That's normal I think. Events can intersect that world and cause me to see it differently, ideas can be introduced that are new, different. Still, I've built my ideas of morality based on what I know, believe. Polygamy isn't something that seems natural to me, from where I sit.

My opinion in regard to the whole topic of "polygamy" isn't a very informed one, there's a lof of information I haven't really cracked the books on myself I'll admit. But, in general, I think the responsibility of a male within an extended family could and should take into account taking care of those who need it. In certain times and societies that responsibility would be completely up to the family, as no one else would be there to have any reason to assist.

Which isn't "polygamy" of course. I'm not so sure David, Samson, Abraham, etc. all had the same situations they were dealing with, comparing them to each other, but somewhere the concept of a man (or I guess it could be woman by definition) having many wives being acceptable came into practice. Maybe the reasons were the same as you cite, Templelady.

Then There's This Guy. This is the leader of that rogue "FLDS" group. By all accounts a sick puppy. Plus, when he was arrested they found "wigs" in his car. Put a wig on that guy's head and what d'ya get? It ain't pretty thats for sure. I'd think the quickest way for him to get stopped would be for him to put on a wig. Maybe that's what he really wanted, his own inner child was screaming to be brought in and arranged to be married to a big beefy cell mate. Dunno.

Do we laugh or cry? "Arranged" marriages between middle aged men and 13 year old girls? Uh....

Edited October 26, 2006 by socks