All is well and good I guess if they just keep it(debt) quiet. The sad part is that they HAVE TO! Someone shouldn't have to feel that they have to hide things--be it starting your own business (but gettting a loan to do it) or even their own opinions! Hence the hypocrisy even of the regular innie since you have to appear to have the perfect twi sanctioned life with a perfectly renewed to twi doctrine mind.
I was thinking (I'm known to do that every so often :) ), although I do not mind buying stocks or mutual funds that own cigarette, weapons, oil, or alcoholic beverage companies, I do respect investors who buy the mutual funds that specifically will not invest in these companies for investors who do not want to support these types of companies. They practice what they preach, and stand on their clear convictions.
How sad that twi doesn't. If debt is wrong / sin, why do business with banks who lend money which enslaves others? :blink: Again, it is not just a safe place to put their money, but they use bank debt products (CD's, money markets, etc.) to earn money for their credit union shareholders. Debt is sin, but we don't mind other "heathens" going into it, so we can profit from it. Its like drug dealers who won't take the drugs, but are glad you do. Pimps and pushers.....there is no moral conviction, just hypocrisy .
Oh yeah, I have a question for anyone out there who may know more than me on this:
My friend used to be on staff @ twi hq. He told me that twi REQUIRED them to be members of their credit union so that twi could direct deposit their paychecks into it. It saved twi tons of money, but it seems that a staffer should have the choice to have the direct deposit to a different bank or savings institution.
Yeah, I remember LCM always saying stupid things like "Beaver Cleaver isn't running the world now" meaning that times are different, so therefore debt is not OK now. That is one way to get Uncle Harry & VPW off the debt hook. icon_redface.gif
If the "No Debt or else" policy w/punishments is "The Word of God" based on rightly dividing the Bible, then the conditions of the world should be immaterial to the standard. The Word of God in its written form should transcend every generation, culture, and worldly condition. Therefore, if debt is wrong now, then it should have been wrong in the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, etc. That includes when Uncle Harry received the revelation to take out a loan and renovate the Wierwille home.
Yeppers! What happened to God and His Word changing not? God’s will changes? I think not. TWI’s private interpretation of God’s will is what changes.
Patriot:
I'll tell you EXACTLY how TWI will spin that verse....pretty standard how they do it to others. They will say that the inheritance is a "spiritual inheritance," just like they downplayed financial prosperity to mean "spiritual prosperity." For that matter, they always made "fornication" and "adultery" to mean the "spiritual" kinds (idolatry) too.
And I bought that crap about the “spiritual adultery”. How effen stupid can someone be??
I know that’s the spin Moynihan puts on that verse. When we had that gawd awful bus trip to HQ, he talked about “building something” – a ministry that would be around for our children and our children’s children. Cause if it weren’t for TWI the word would be lost and the whole population of the world would be in darkness without the light of God’s word. Pretty lame God, doncha think? What kind of God has to depend on some self-contained, selfish, absuive group of folks to keep His presence around?? Not the all powerful, all knowing, all caring, all love, everywhere present God that the Bible speaks of.
BTW, I do remember hearing as well that staff were required to have automatic deposit into the Way CU. It does sound illegal to me, too. <_< I wonder who one would contact to find out about the legality of that?
I wonder how many have their paycheck deposited according to the TWIt rules and then withdraw the whole blasted thing so that TWI can't tell what and how they're spending their money.
There are quite a few organizations that discourage debt - Christian and non- Christian. They try to teach people to live within their means and not get into debt so deep that it ruins their lives. It’s basically common sense. It’s really a no-brainer.
But TWI talked out of both sides of its mouth when it came to debt.
Many years ago HEW used to say that you should never have debt for anything except a house and a car.
Then the misinterpretation of “Owe no man anything but to love one another” became TWI’s debt doctrine. Debt became sin - not just poor judgment and bad financial planning.
When one of the newer Advanced Classes was first made available to grads, the rules were that no one in debt could attend -- the exceptions were:
1. Mortgages
2. Student loans
3. Medical bills
4. Business loans
If an AC grad had any of those debts they could attend… but… after the grad classes ended and the “new student” classes started running - NO debt of ANY kind was allowed.
John attended one of the grad classes. I couldn’t clear my schedule until after those were offered, and since we had a mortgage at the time, I wasn’t allowed to take it! Poor me! Imagine how despondent I was (snicker, snicker).
My favorite “no debt” encounter was when our BC’s wife confronted us for spending money on home improvements and a family cruise. She said we should have put that money towards paying off our mortgage. She said she knew people who “ate macaroni and cheese for a year” so they could pay off their debt. I thought “yeah, now THAT’S the abundant life for ya! Mac and Cheese for a year!”
IMO, TWI’s rigid no debt policy was probably the turning point for those who had stayed in after PoP. They’d put up with a lot of LCM’s insane babblings and teachings - but no one could live up to those expectations. No one wanted to DECREASE their quality of life by giving up their homes to rent an apartment just to please a megalomaniac like LCM. I am sorry for those who did and wish there were some way TWI could compensate them for their losses.
If an AC grad had any of those debts they could attend… but… after the grad classes ended and the “new student” classes started running - NO debt of ANY kind was allowed.
Lovely, absolutely lovely!!
My *cartoon bubble* about this is seeing Jesus teaching the sermon on the mount --
or the preaching on the Plain ---
and refusing to teach, and/or kicking out all those in *debt*. <_<
I agree with the logic of not going so deeply in debt - living way beyond one's means - as a lifestlyle. It's a matter of being the ones in control vs being always out of control. Its just good logic.
My biggest concern in this issue is their adamant stand on "No Debt" including a home. I appreciate Rhino sharing about saving up, but realistically, unless someone makes significant $, and then lives very moderately, how would most save up enough to pay for a home outright while paying rent (aka paying someone elses mortgage for them)? I know twi's response: "Believe God." So, in other words, the vast majority of their people are renting and living the lifestyle of bedouins and gypsies. Those people are not "believing God" are they? If they make it to retirement age, and must pay for housing or move into a relative's home, then, obviously they didn't "believe God" right? :blink:
And when innies are elderly and without much substance on their deathbed, what will be the "inheritance" to be left to the next generation (as Belle so wonderfully noted)? Nothing. If they owned a house, and had nothing else, it could be an asset to be sold & used for seed money, or even lived in "rent free" for the children / grandchildren.
All I know is this: If someone believes and applies Biblical principles in their lives, their lives are EVIDENTLY better for it. Speaking for myself, IMHO my marriage, family, work, health, mental attitudes, etc. are ALL better than the typical "worldly" examples, and I wouldn't trade my life with anyone else! I'm very blessed and content. However, for those in twi who rigidly apply the "No debt, for no reason, no how, no way" standard of twi is applied, the "world" is EVIDENTLY better off. Homes, businesses, college educations, reliable vehicles for work, etc. And, if the lord tarries, those people with homes paid off will be in the best situation for retirement. And to put the "cherry" on top, twi has never loved nor cared for their people to provide them with some ideas & help to achieve home ownership or prosperity. They are not a "how to" ministry - and they don't care. I pity their people....really.
And to put the "cherry" on top, twi has never loved nor cared for their people to provide them with some ideas & help to achieve home ownership or prosperity. They are not a "how to" ministry - and they don't care. I pity their people....really.
Just some thoughts.
What unnecessary pressure many Way folks are being set up for~
My earlier point about "saving up" was really specific to me. If I'd know I was staying in the area, buying a home would have been better. The tax advantages and capital gains on the home make it a pretty solid investment. Lately though, with real estate in some areas maybe overpriced, I've seen some arguments for renting. Maybe that's why I brought it up.
Of course if 2 or 3 families can live together in one house, they can send more money to HQ ... which seems to be the twi preference.
My earlier point about "saving up" was really specific to me. If I'd know I was staying in the area, buying a home would have been better. The tax advantages and capital gains on the home make it a pretty solid investment. Lately though, with real estate in some areas maybe overpriced, I've seen some arguments for renting. Maybe that's why I brought it up.
Of course if 2 or 3 families can live together in one house, they can send more money to HQ ... which seems to be the twi preference.
Rhino,
I see you are talking and thinking financial strategy. Great! And those are strategies that make sense in certain areas, times, etc. (taxes, real estate values, etc.). They are not your attempt (as is twi) of forcing or punishing people for non-compliance to their own rules
Maybe my mind is tired, but 2-3 families living together in one house to send more money.......back to Mexico.....Oh, I was thinking about illegal aliens, not way people. Yeah, I am tired.
Maybe my mind is tired, but 2-3 families living together in one house to send more money.......back to Mexico.....Oh, I was thinking about illegal aliens, not way people. Yeah, I am tired.
LOL .. very perceptive patriot ... I'm probably blurring my arguments together ... repatriating that money back to mexico is a pretty big deal ... I guess they rent mostly ... I think I was thinking about way homes, fellow laborers, etc. ... I spose communal living could be interesting, but use the extra money for your own retirement, not twi loafers :)
Edited by rhino
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SafariVista
One wise 'innie' that I know, tells her children who are also in, THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO LET ANYONE KNOW ALL OF THEIR BUSINESS.
If they need to have debt for something... don't make it anyone else's business.
Oddly enough, that seems to be working for them
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penguin
All is well and good I guess if they just keep it(debt) quiet. The sad part is that they HAVE TO! Someone shouldn't have to feel that they have to hide things--be it starting your own business (but gettting a loan to do it) or even their own opinions! Hence the hypocrisy even of the regular innie since you have to appear to have the perfect twi sanctioned life with a perfectly renewed to twi doctrine mind.
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Patriot
I was thinking (I'm known to do that every so often :) ), although I do not mind buying stocks or mutual funds that own cigarette, weapons, oil, or alcoholic beverage companies, I do respect investors who buy the mutual funds that specifically will not invest in these companies for investors who do not want to support these types of companies. They practice what they preach, and stand on their clear convictions.
How sad that twi doesn't. If debt is wrong / sin, why do business with banks who lend money which enslaves others? :blink: Again, it is not just a safe place to put their money, but they use bank debt products (CD's, money markets, etc.) to earn money for their credit union shareholders. Debt is sin, but we don't mind other "heathens" going into it, so we can profit from it. Its like drug dealers who won't take the drugs, but are glad you do. Pimps and pushers.....there is no moral conviction, just hypocrisy
.
Oh yeah, I have a question for anyone out there who may know more than me on this:
My friend used to be on staff @ twi hq. He told me that twi REQUIRED them to be members of their credit union so that twi could direct deposit their paychecks into it. It saved twi tons of money, but it seems that a staffer should have the choice to have the direct deposit to a different bank or savings institution.
Is this "policy" of theirs against the law?
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Belle
Patriot:
Yeppers! What happened to God and His Word changing not? God’s will changes? I think not. TWI’s private interpretation of God’s will is what changes.Patriot:
And I bought that crap about the “spiritual adultery”. How effen stupid can someone be??
I know that’s the spin Moynihan puts on that verse. When we had that gawd awful bus trip to HQ, he talked about “building something” – a ministry that would be around for our children and our children’s children. Cause if it weren’t for TWI the word would be lost and the whole population of the world would be in darkness without the light of God’s word. Pretty lame God, doncha think? What kind of God has to depend on some self-contained, selfish, absuive group of folks to keep His presence around?? Not the all powerful, all knowing, all caring, all love, everywhere present God that the Bible speaks of.
BTW, I do remember hearing as well that staff were required to have automatic deposit into the Way CU. It does sound illegal to me, too. <_< I wonder who one would contact to find out about the legality of that?
I wonder how many have their paycheck deposited according to the TWIt rules and then withdraw the whole blasted thing so that TWI can't tell what and how they're spending their money.
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Hope R.
There are quite a few organizations that discourage debt - Christian and non- Christian. They try to teach people to live within their means and not get into debt so deep that it ruins their lives. It’s basically common sense. It’s really a no-brainer.
But TWI talked out of both sides of its mouth when it came to debt.
Many years ago HEW used to say that you should never have debt for anything except a house and a car.
Then the misinterpretation of “Owe no man anything but to love one another” became TWI’s debt doctrine. Debt became sin - not just poor judgment and bad financial planning.
When one of the newer Advanced Classes was first made available to grads, the rules were that no one in debt could attend -- the exceptions were:
1. Mortgages
2. Student loans
3. Medical bills
4. Business loans
If an AC grad had any of those debts they could attend… but… after the grad classes ended and the “new student” classes started running - NO debt of ANY kind was allowed.
John attended one of the grad classes. I couldn’t clear my schedule until after those were offered, and since we had a mortgage at the time, I wasn’t allowed to take it! Poor me! Imagine how despondent I was (snicker, snicker).
My favorite “no debt” encounter was when our BC’s wife confronted us for spending money on home improvements and a family cruise. She said we should have put that money towards paying off our mortgage. She said she knew people who “ate macaroni and cheese for a year” so they could pay off their debt. I thought “yeah, now THAT’S the abundant life for ya! Mac and Cheese for a year!”
IMO, TWI’s rigid no debt policy was probably the turning point for those who had stayed in after PoP. They’d put up with a lot of LCM’s insane babblings and teachings - but no one could live up to those expectations. No one wanted to DECREASE their quality of life by giving up their homes to rent an apartment just to please a megalomaniac like LCM. I am sorry for those who did and wish there were some way TWI could compensate them for their losses.
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dmiller
Lovely, absolutely lovely!!
My *cartoon bubble* about this is seeing Jesus teaching the sermon on the mount --
or the preaching on the Plain ---
and refusing to teach, and/or kicking out all those in *debt*. <_<
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
just how stupid were/are they?
i borrowed money to attend the ac in gunnysac!!lol
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Patriot
Dearest Hope,
Great points!
I agree with the logic of not going so deeply in debt - living way beyond one's means - as a lifestlyle. It's a matter of being the ones in control vs being always out of control. Its just good logic.
My biggest concern in this issue is their adamant stand on "No Debt" including a home. I appreciate Rhino sharing about saving up, but realistically, unless someone makes significant $, and then lives very moderately, how would most save up enough to pay for a home outright while paying rent (aka paying someone elses mortgage for them)? I know twi's response: "Believe God." So, in other words, the vast majority of their people are renting and living the lifestyle of bedouins and gypsies. Those people are not "believing God" are they? If they make it to retirement age, and must pay for housing or move into a relative's home, then, obviously they didn't "believe God" right? :blink:
And when innies are elderly and without much substance on their deathbed, what will be the "inheritance" to be left to the next generation (as Belle so wonderfully noted)? Nothing. If they owned a house, and had nothing else, it could be an asset to be sold & used for seed money, or even lived in "rent free" for the children / grandchildren.
All I know is this: If someone believes and applies Biblical principles in their lives, their lives are EVIDENTLY better for it. Speaking for myself, IMHO my marriage, family, work, health, mental attitudes, etc. are ALL better than the typical "worldly" examples, and I wouldn't trade my life with anyone else! I'm very blessed and content. However, for those in twi who rigidly apply the "No debt, for no reason, no how, no way" standard of twi is applied, the "world" is EVIDENTLY better off. Homes, businesses, college educations, reliable vehicles for work, etc. And, if the lord tarries, those people with homes paid off will be in the best situation for retirement. And to put the "cherry" on top, twi has never loved nor cared for their people to provide them with some ideas & help to achieve home ownership or prosperity. They are not a "how to" ministry - and they don't care. I pity their people....really.
Just some thoughts.
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SafariVista
What unnecessary pressure many Way folks are being set up for~
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rhino
My earlier point about "saving up" was really specific to me. If I'd know I was staying in the area, buying a home would have been better. The tax advantages and capital gains on the home make it a pretty solid investment. Lately though, with real estate in some areas maybe overpriced, I've seen some arguments for renting. Maybe that's why I brought it up.
Of course if 2 or 3 families can live together in one house, they can send more money to HQ ... which seems to be the twi preference.
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Patriot
Rhino,
I see you are talking and thinking financial strategy. Great! And those are strategies that make sense in certain areas, times, etc. (taxes, real estate values, etc.). They are not your attempt (as is twi) of forcing or punishing people for non-compliance to their own rules
Maybe my mind is tired, but 2-3 families living together in one house to send more money.......back to Mexico.....Oh, I was thinking about illegal aliens, not way people.
Yeah, I am tired. 
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rhino
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