Personal experiences not valid

[coolchef1248 @adelphia.net]

could rick be related to ck??

[templelady]

I still am amazed at how long I ignored that voice in MY head

[waterbuffalo]

I think personal experiences are valid and that was just one more lie to get us to trust him and not the Holy Spirit.

Edited April 4, 2006 by waterbuffalo

[Mike]

But valid for WHAT?

That's the essential question here.

I can see lots of things they are valid for, but if we BASE doctrine on them we may have a problem, especially when we consider the other differing experiences of other people, or even our own at other times in our life.

Edited April 4, 2006 by Mike

[excathedra]

valid for what ?

if there's a god, my damn feelings better be valid, or i don't want him

does that make sense ?

when i say feelings, i mean my heart, soul, whatever makes me ME

blah blah blah

did i just go into wayspeak mode ?

[dmiller]

From Mike ---

I can see lots of things they are valid for,

but if we BASE doctrine on them we may have a problem .......

Snow on the gas pumps comes to mind here. <_<

[CoolWaters]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

Good one, David!

[sirguessalot]

what about our experiences of doctrine?

i mean, more or less, we experience doctrines just as we experience our thoughts or feelings, no?

if we cannot trust our experiences for doctrine...how can we trust our experience OF doctrine?

or of a book, of a feeling, of a dream, of a ghost, of a rainbow?

what are the differences?

Edited April 4, 2006 by sirguessalot

[excathedra]

thanks, t

shows me just how waybrain i still am in many ways

love,e

[sirguessalot]

imo, as with experience, the simple feeling of being is much more valid than we realize, e

we have so many kinds of intelligences in each of us

and one of the most overlooked (and often feared) by the masculine concept-heavy world is the intelligent value of feelings

and how much better we can learn to interpret and RE-interpret our experiences of them

man o man...i wish i had the hours and days to explain what i mean in more meaningful ways

maybe some day soon

Edited April 5, 2006 by sirguessalot

[dmiller]

Now, to help steer this back to topic from your accusatory derailment, let me ask EVERYONE this:

Has anyone here had an experience that was so profound they decided to close their mind to any more input and considerations on the that issue?

Yes --- every time I read that pfal is God's Word re-issued, and that vpw is God's spokesman, and that Jesus will descend from Heavan with the orange book in His hand quoting from it --- I tend to close my mind to further input, due to that experience.

In this case --- the personal experience is VERY VALID.

(and I'm not the only one to have had it either.)

[Kevlar2000]

The Gospels and Acts (in fact, most of the bible) are full of people's "experiences". You know, like Jesus, Paul and the others?

Are their experiences valid?

If you never have any experiences that validate at least some of what the bible says, why would you continue with it?

[Second James]

Interesting thread, as I've been lurking for four months, but this topic has my attention for sure!

So...what if a person was ministered to and received total healing for that which was prayed for...and of course this DOES line up with the biblical concept of "by his stripes we are healed"..if its undeniable healing, and VP is spouting that this is truly available..then how can that individual deny it?

George..I see your position is still the same..my deepest sympathy

NVP's experience was real to him, but according to "what we were taught" a deception...so then how do we separate fact from fnatacy..a "doctrine" is either right or wrong..profitable or destructive.

[pond]

I think everyone has experiences that "close your mind" UNTILL you have another experience that OPENS your mind, about a subject.

HELLO ????

it is called learning .

to me that is what life is a learning process of changing and becoming who each one of us is.

LIFE is a personal experience.

A relationship is a PERSONAL experience.

no one does life the same as another, or has a relationship the same as another.

Our relationship with the LORD Jesus christ is an intimate realtionship he says we are his FRIENDS.

We have friends because we want to share our experiences.

why eles have friends or any types of relationships?

to take any formula and say this is who I am.. isnt freedom it ispure bondage and a prison of what another or a book or whatever says YOU are.

that is NOT life. that is not relationships and that is not love.. and Jesus commands us to LOVE one another.. love means sharing our life which is our experiences each individual sharing and being and doing life.

if all we neede is the bible verse why make people ?

why command us to care and love one another?

why die for us at all?

Jesus had quite the experience and we are still wondering about it .

[Mike]

Has anyone noticed that some themes running this thread are quite similar to T-Bone's thread "What does it take to change your mind?" in Doctrinal?

***

Are personal experiences valid for cash at the corner bank? Not usually.

Are personal experiences valid for tuning up your car? Not usually.

Are personal experiences valid for violating a neighbor’s rights? Never.

Are personal experiences valid for changing one’s legal age back 20 years? Never.

Are personal experiences valid for jumping to the moon? Never.

Are personal experiences valid for learning and reflecting? Yes, certainly.

This inventory is long, so I’ll stop here.

***

dmiller, if you want to bait me, please do it on the thread where it’s appropriate for me lay out my cards to show others that you’re full of baloney.

[excathedra]

nice post, pond. thanks.

[sirguessalot]

there is I

and there is IT

but what is often overlooked is the value of the WE

imo, an honest comparison of experiences is a good practice that will give us good doctrine

which is the gift of an authentic WE-space

if we can find, or make, such a clearing

but to speak of the beauty, goodness, or truth of experience only in terms of I and/or IT

is to miss an important perspective

which is a common sort of mental trap

Edited April 6, 2006 by sirguessalot

[Goey]

All quotes by Penguin from the opening post.

I was thinking about something last night...and recalled how we used to tell people that any "personal experiences" of God couldn't be trusted, but only what the Bible said could be trusted and called true. (This was mostly 90's thinking

It was alive an well in the 70's /80's also. Heard that more than once. But. In TWI, trusting the Bible for the most part meant trusting VPW's or LCM's or TWI's changing and evolving interpretation of it.

What was ironic about the statement was the fact it was still taught that VPW heard an audible voice from God. (Something that couldn't be guaranteed by the Word to happen, but since it was vpw it was okay.) It would not have been acceptable for any of us peons to have this happen.

VPW/LCM/etc played by one set of rules, we had to play by another. In order to keep this up, scriptures had to be "interpreted" within that framework then "doctrine" estabished. Like maybe the idea of MOGFOT or that "leaders" get revelation first. Stuff like that. Pure hypocrisy.

Do you think twi taught this so they wouldn't have to explain people's experiences? Or maybe it was a way to prevent us from really been able to establish a true relationship with God? Maybe another way to keep our emotions out of the picture? Or maybe a way to prevent us from hearing the still small voice?

All of the above and then some. If Wierwille./LCM were actually hearing from God (I don't think they were) why would they want to stiffle anyone else's experience or relationship with God? If they weren't really hearing from God, then they were frauds and would not accept anyone else's experience as authentic or valid. To do so would undermine the deception and diminish their power and control. All experiences must go through the TWI filter,. whatever it happens to be at the time. Edited April 6, 2006 by Goey

[ex10]

Aw sheesh. My life is just one "personal experience" after another.

Really, how can we escape ourselves? And what we go through day by day.

The idea that "personal experiences are not valid" is ludicrous. So who else's experiences am I having? if they aren't "personal?"

Sheesh.....

[Mike]

I'm to tired to look it up right now, but isn't what we were taught more like: "Experience is no GUARANTEE for truth." ??

In other words, it CAN line up with truth some times,

and then go against the truth at other times.

[templelady]

"VPW is no GUARANTEE for truth."

[rascal]

AMEN TL!! :)

[George Aar]

James II,

RE:George..I see your position is still the same..my deepest sympathy"

Ahh, I'd say save it for someone who needs - or wants - it.

I'm fine, really.

Do you feel sorry for those that no longer believe in:

Santa Claus?

The Loch Ness Monster?

Astrology?

Any religion other than Christianity?

Not much difference in my book.

And just so's you'll know, agnosticism isn't particularly painful...

[Belle]

And just so's you'll know, agnosticism isn't particularly painful...

I'm finding it to be a lot less painful than Christianity and a lot less stressful, too.

[excathedra]

i'll tell you what's not painful, my own experiences or delusions :)

when i talk to god, i feel good

sometimes he's my only hope