Success of the Offshoots?

[Nottawayfer]

Here's something I found on the internet regarding Geer. I hadn't seen this previously. Maybe it's a new tidbit to some of you.

6 Scotland: "The Way International" Denounced.

Thousands of followers of the controversial Way International

have been called by leaders of a breakaway section of the group

to a Christmas convention at Gartmore House, in Scotland's

Trossachs region. The convocation is a bid to establish the

Rev. Chris Geer as head of The Way, which is based in the U.S.

Gear claims that The Way's founder, the late Victor Paul Wierwille,

appointed him to carry on the group's work. Geer appears to

have taken over Gartmore House, purchased by The Way In Great

Britain Ltd. five years ago for œ 238,000.

Rigid Controls

Former fifteen-year Way member Chris Leggett, who says the

group "took my freedom, my life, my mind, and my independence,"

warned Scots: "What they did to me they could be doing now

in Gartmore House. You'd better believe it before it's too

late." Speaking from Virginia, where he is undergoing a course

of deprogramming, Leggett spoke of mind control techniques

and control of the environment used by The Way to recruit and

indoctrinate members. Then, he said, "you provide free labor

for them, you're kept on campus and not allowed to leave, and

made to feel an elitist group against the rest of the world.

They indoctrinate you so you're scared to death to leave the

group."

Speaking hesitantly, still in the midst of deprogramming,

he says: "They worked on phobias . . . tell you you'd become

possessed with bad spirits or the devil." Although Leggett

has his two daughters with him, his wife, with whom he is engaged

in a bitter custody dispute, remains in the group.

Geer has challenged official Way leader Craig Martindale

in a series of stormy meetings at the organization's Ohio headquarters,

claiming that evil spirits have invaded the hierarchy. He claims

Wierwille, who visited him in Scotland just before he died,

gave him his last will and testament as he could trust no one

else. Sunday Mail, 9/30/90, 1, 6-7.

Former member and Way leader in Ireland Padraig Butterly

- who once ran the group's Gartmore House in Scotland - says

that followers lived in fear of being possessed by the Devil,

that grown men and women were reduced to sobbing in corners,

and that leader Chris Geer spoke directly to God and thought

he was Moses or an Apostle. The 33-year-old pub owner, who

ran Gartmore in 1987, said "The whole thing was a farce," .

. . The Way will answer no questions, and they rule by fear

and intimidation."

Money

Butterly quit The Way in March, after 14 years, along with

scores of other British followers. He says it was Geer's rule

of fear that finally made him see they had been controlled

for one result - the mass giving of cash, first to The Way

Great Britain Ltd., then direct to Gartmore House. "We are

still holding half a million pounds in Ireland," he said, "money

given by followers which I won't pass on to The Way." At one

point, he added, Irish followers alone were giving œ2,000 a

week. But that was "peanuts" compared to what was going to

England and to Gartmore House. Butterly said, "One of the

many tragedies is that Gartmore House was bought by honestly

believing Christians throughout the world and it has been turned

into a property of his will."

More Stories

Butterly's view is supported by ex-member Karl Edwards,

29, who says he gave thousands of pounds to The Way but is

now just glad to be out. "To be honest, at times I thought

suicide would be a good way out. I watched people being destroyed.

All over the main rooms and corridors of Gartmore, Geer set

up his cameras linked to his room. He watched and listened

to us all the time. He controlled our lives. Now I'm out of

bondage after 11 years."

Teenager Peter Renton, from Dunbar, said that before he

fled to London, "I was brainwashed. It was hypnotic. Like drug

addiction I knew it was bad for me but I still had to have

more." Only 16 when a workmate introduced him to the group,

he remembers his first sermon given by Geer: "I remember him

staring at me. It was as though his message was directed at

me. It made me feel elated." Every Sunday he went to Gartmore,

handing over a total of œ500. "You feel guilty if you don't

give anything," he said. Peter finally fled after becoming

obsessed by the thought that the Devil would claim him. "Finally

I told them I wasn't coming back, but they kept phoning and

wouldn't leave me alone. They made me leave Scotland. I had

no choice. I was driven from my own country."

Edited March 28, 2006 by Wayfer Not

[GrouchoMarxJr]

You're right, I had never seen this article before...it looks like it is about 20 years old?

[Belle]

At one point, he added, Irish followers alone were giving œ2,000 a week. But that was "peanuts" compared to what was going to England and to Gartmore House.

Is this a clue to why the Moynihans have been sent to England? :ph34r:

[dmiller]

I hadn't seen that one either. Where'd you find it, Wafer Not?

And Padraig Butterly went from running the Gartmore house to being a pub owner?

Moving UP in the world.

[GarthP2000]

Dave, I seconds that motion! The guy (Geer) is two words: in sane. His 'thoughts' (term loosely used here) even beats the 'theory' I once heard in TWI back in 1985 about since light is coming from the monitor, that it means that the computer has its own form of life, thus making it devilish. Uhhh, for one thing, the light is coming from the monitor, not the computer. And that isn't the only thing wrong with that swill.

Amazing, as I look back and consider what I used to think was spouted off as science!

[TOMMYZ]

Maybe Geer wrote that article before there were firewalls to keep out the demons !

[Linda Z]

I think that article is from the 80s, judging by when it says Gartmore was purchased by twi.

Wasn't Chrsitopher Leggett Chirs Geer's brother-in-law? I seem to recall that Chris L. is Barb Geer's brother, but I could be misremembering. I remember him as kind of a free spirit--the exact opposite of CG.

Edited March 29, 2006 by Linda Z

[Nottawayfer]

I found this when I did search for Chris Geer on Google. Once you click on the link, you have to do a search in the document for Chris Geer because there are several things listed besides CG.

Here's the link: Chris Geer Link

Edited March 29, 2006 by Wayfer Not

[pond]

craftsman is the word when it comes to the amish.

You hire the amish to build you a house or a barn and they call in 400 to 500 guys and get it done in very little time , perfect work and very premium money. they have all types of business, everything you can think of , the ladies run resturants sell bake goods do the farm markets in the city etc..

they pay no taxes remember.. so a bur in my side is the fact they pay no tax yet they can now use public resources like school buses but I get why (a family of 7 was wiped out just recently in a bad buggy accident. ) WE pay to bus them to their own school . they use the public building and hospitals

they tend to take over a small town , they come to all the political meetings regarding how decisions are made etc.. and they have power in money and land resources. they go to college and decide how to better their own sects.

I am not of the belief they are quaint quiet religous people , they are in reality quite powerful and demanding of what they want, very good business men indeed.

they are also a cult.

nice peopel but still a cult ya know.

[dmiller]

You hire the amish to build you a house or a barn and they call in 400 to 500 guys and get it done in very little time , perfect work and very premium money. they have all types of business, everything you can think of , the ladies run resturants sell bake goods do the farm markets in the city etc..

they pay no taxes remember.. so a bur in my side is the fact they pay no tax yet they can now use public resources like school buses but I get why (a family of 7 was wiped out just recently in a bad buggy accident. ) WE pay to bus them to their own school . they use the public building and hospitals

Hmmmm. Methinks there are illegal aliens, doing the same, but they are illegal, and the Amish are not.

[Jim]

This is what the bus driving pimp should have driven.

Not this one?

[frank123lol]

Speaking of the aimish,We have a small sect some 40 miles away,some of them real strict,others,

are"modern aimish"very materialistic.Well if it looks like a duck and walkd like one,,,,

Some of the offshoots,look like twi,but..I think cff has alot of heartand the people are loving and caring.

Ayone seen Big Love on hbo?That roman character is scary those dead eyes...Like a dead cult

leader? :( :(

[WhiteDove]

Looks like Word Promotions has recently acquired a corporate charter in Maine.

Here

Edited March 29, 2006 by WhiteDove

[Tom Strange]

Is that the name of Geer's deal?

[dmiller]

This record contains information from the CEC database and is accurate as of: Wed Mar 29 2006 01:05:10. Please print or save for your records.

Legal Name Charter Number Filing Type Status

WORD PROMOTIONS LIMITED 20061552 D BUSINESS CORPORATION GOOD STANDING

Filing Date Expiration Date Jurisdiction

02/27/2006 N/A MAINE

Other Names (A=Assumed ; F=Former)

NONE

Clerk/Registered Agent

LAWRENCE R. SAWYER

P.O. BOX 1177

WINDHAM, ME 04062

Hmmm.

[pond]

off topic

the aliens do not vote.

the amish do .

[johniam]

quote: Looks like Word Promotions has recently acquired a corporate charter in Maine.

So much for him having something to hide.

[Tom Strange]

quote: Looks like Word Promotions has recently acquired a corporate charter in Maine.

So much for him having something to hide.

Help out my simple mind please obi-Johnuare... what does one have to do with the other?

(a corporate charter vs an internet presence)

[WhiteDove]

Yes Tom it is. It has nothing to do with a web site. Looks like they are (GEERing up) to run some clases here without having to ship the stuff from overseas.

[diazbro]

Yet TWI proved you could have church in the home without the financial backing of a denomination. They were so successful that the churches HAD to notice and give respect. Yeah, their lip service was "It's a cult! Run for it!", but they changed with the times didn't they? Having been in a few churches since leaving TWI, I'd say they've lightened up on the hell stuff quite a bit.

One notes that the ICC (aka The Boston Church of Christ) grew in many ways as did TWI and they also used home fellowships and community centers and was also regarded as a cult. The Moonies did it also and had numbers comparable to TWI. "home fellowships" predated TWI's peak and many people in the 60s ,with no knowledge of TWI or ICC, are very familiar with this idea so I think this is why there is something of a resurgence in churches at home. In reality the recent interest in home fellowships has very little to do with TWI if anything at all. Even if one restricts their attention to the "cults", TWI, ICC ,and the Unification church used homes, centers, and rentals to hold services and all were of comparable size at their respective peaks so I don't how one organization can be singled out as being more influential than another. and I doubt that mainstream denominational leaders were sitting there taking notes on outreach and growth from TWI,ICC, or the Unification church. Many people want a return to the supposed simplicity of the 60s (though they were anything but simple) but the idea of less intervention in one's spiritual life was definitely valued and people haven't forgotten about that. While there is definite interest in home fellowships at this time it is by no means taking the country by storm at least to the extent that churches are closing doors in record numbers.

Edited March 29, 2006 by diazbro

[outofdafog]

gosh diazbro..........you make me miss the good old days.......the fellowships in my areas for the first 5-10 years were so sweet and I always looked forward to going to them..........then coffee and dessert at a restaurant later, share the Word with the waitress or a customer..........laught til midnight, get home and go to sleep........those were some of my most favorite nights..............or maybe it's cuz those were some of my most youthful days.........Gosh we had some great times the couple years I was down in North Carolina......any of you way marketing folks still out there remember all the good times.....????? I know you are here Tom

The nineties became more like a NIGHTMARE.

Edited March 29, 2006 by outofdafog

[diazbro]

gosh diazbro..........you make me miss the good old days.......the fellowships in my areas for the first 5-10 years were so sweet and I always looked forward to going to them..........then coffee and dessert at a restaurant later, share the Word with the waitress or a customer..........laught til midnight, get home and go to sleep........those were some of my most favorite nights..............or maybe it's cuz those were some of my most youthful days.........Gosh we had some great times the couple years I was down in North Carolina......any of you way marketing folks still out there remember all the good times.....????? I know you are here Tom

The nineties became more like a NIGHTMARE.

Yea. That trip down memory lane is fine and sweet. I take that trip now and again myself. The key is not to confuse the good times of youth as being the result of the TWI. I met some GREAT people when I joined up with TWI but they would have been good regardless of the circumstances so I give THEM the credit. Its like sharing an umbrella with someone for an extended period of time. Maybe you share some things and have a moment but no one wants to be in the rain their whole life. One can have a good time without it.

[excathedra]

Yes, I'm part of a CG "offshoot" and we believe that VPW was a man of god who happened to sin in his flesh as opposed to a sexual predator who happened to have a bible ministry, which is what many GSers think. That's NOT idolatry just to respect someone for something.

ok this is as far as i got..... a man of god w ho happened to sin in the flesh as opposed to a sexual predator who happened to have a bible ministry

oh please

you ought to ask your offshoot guru about his own whatever he happened to be and then whatever whatever

not surprising at all....

[excathedra]

oh dear god to only have the stayed mind.....

i can't read this

anyone who would follow that psycho probably followed the original psycho whom i followed

[mstar1]

Yet TWI proved you could have church in the home without the financial backing of a denomination

Gimme a break, it wasnt like they invented the concept or proved anything of the sort, people of many denominations have been doing that for centuries.

Its laced through my genealogy on both sides of the family going back to the 1600's. My greatgrandparents, who lived in a rural area, had church in their home for over 60 years starting right after the Civil War.

Why does TWI have to take credit for everything?