Looking Beyond a Monochromatic Faith…

[Xena]

OK. Try out this idea. Imagine there's only one tree - the Tree of Life (symbolically, of course). So we eat of that one. Apple sauce, apple pie, apple butter, taffy apples ....... It's all just livin' Life. Without the Tree of the Knowlege of Good and Evil (which is to say - if good and evil were not defined), would they even exist?

Let me try to explain it again. I hang out with Native Americans a lot. Among this particular tribe (and maybe others - I don't know), private property isn't so private. You may wake up some morning, and find that your car is gone. It's inconvenient, but you can be sure it will be sitting in your driveway by the end of the day. Off the rez, this is considered theft. It's "evil". On the rez, it's just another day.

From the Tribe's point of view, we non-natives are "evil" when we are not respectful of our elders. We think nothing of our Alzheimers jokes and our impatience with elderly drivers. On the rez, old people are always served first, taken seriously, assisted with opening doors, admired.

I'm just saying that "good and evil" are labels within our thinking, which are not as absolute as we think they are, and which, if it were possible to discard, might lead to ............. just livin' Life. I think livin' Life is the MULTI-chromatic view that Todd is talking about. Is this it, Todd?

And, everyone else, have you seen Todd's artwork? Talk about multichromatic.

And by the way - where are all my sister ex-wayfers? I'm feeling quite out-numbered by eros people here. -X

[sirguessalot]

Xena...much appreciation for your continued engagement on this

I'm just saying that "good and evil" are labels within our thinking, which are not as absolute as we think they are, and which, if it were possible to discard, might lead to ............. just livin' Life. I think livin' Life is the MULTI-chromatic view that Todd is talking about. Is this it, Todd?

yeah...except when "livin life" becomes another hard label stuck on a multi-chromatic but less than fully-chromatic perspective.

cuz as the questions continue to evolve...at some point, it becomes less a question of whether we are being monochromatic

but to what degree are we less than aware of our being wholely-chromatic

we can go from warring with and running from shadows

to actually seeking them out and walking into them with peace

...

and i think of how we can freely view any truth/s as both absolute and relative

once we can comfortably wrap our minds/hearts around the paradox

i would say that both good and evil are relative

but only good is absolute

of course, such a statement might be hard for us to handle or digest

maybe even painful, whenever we react as if the reality of "evil" has just been denied to exist

...when it hasnt been denied at all

though we may want to reconsider the value we place on the nature of "relativity" itself

a negative reaction to the idea of "relative evil" seems very closely related to how we think of things like "relate," "related," "relative," "relationship"

perhaps we could say that to take (or be stuck in) a "monochromatic view" is to take (or be stuck in) some limited sense of relativity

...while claiming to have the absolute view

OK. Try out this idea. Imagine there's only one tree - the Tree of Life (symbolically, of course).

well..what if we were to take it up a notch? and imagine "tree" = "system"

and "the system of life" is simply another way to describe all of creation/the whole universe as a singularity

i am really starting to see how this the common view at the heart of most every spiritual tradition

this big IT is not merely symbolic...it simply literally IS

whether we like it or not

IT IS right here and now

always and forever.

amen..all that

and there is even a spectrum to where we draw the boundaries of our sense of "self" within "it"

but regardless of where we draw those lines...

whenever we hold any "broken branch" of the "system of life" as if it is THE absolute map of all "faith" or "reality"

it's as if we consider that branch to be "the absolute system of knowing good and evil"

...when it is not

of course, the piece we are holding IS also undeniably absolutely true and divine in origin

but our monochromatic stance mistakenly calls it the whole thing...as in the "holy thing"

and so "relative evil" is mistakenly considered to be "absolute evil"

and "relative good" is mistakenly considered to be "absolute good"

and tho this should be avoided at all costs

it simply cant be avoided

because we are naturally born in this state of having a monochromatic perspective

and so life is a process of opening in manifold spectrums of perspectives

the wider the spectrums of perspectives one can freely take

the easier it becomes to see more relative goodnesses and relative evils

reminds of sayings like...

in the beginning...one became two, and then the two became ten, and then the ten became ten thousand

or...

one is all there ever was, and the one becomes three, and the three becomes seven, and the seven becomes the uncountable

Edited April 22, 2006 by sirguessalot

[TheInvisibleDan]

OK. Try out this idea. Imagine there's only one tree - the Tree of Life (symbolically, of course). So we eat of that one. Apple sauce, apple pie, apple butter, taffy apples ....... It's all just livin' Life. Without the Tree of the Knowlege of Good and Evil (which is to say - if good and evil were not defined), would they even exist?

Let me try to explain it again. I hang out with Native Americans a lot. Among this particular tribe (and maybe others - I don't know), private property isn't so private. You may wake up some morning, and find that your car is gone. It's inconvenient, but you can be sure it will be sitting in your driveway by the end of the day. Off the rez, this is considered theft. It's "evil". On the rez, it's just another day.

From the Tribe's point of view, we non-natives are "evil" when we are not respectful of our elders. We think nothing of our Alzheimers jokes and our impatience with elderly drivers. On the rez, old people are always served first, taken seriously, assisted with opening doors, admired.

I'm just saying that "good and evil" are labels within our thinking, which are not as absolute as we think they are, and which, if it were possible to discard, might lead to ............. just livin' Life. I think livin' Life is the MULTI-chromatic view that Todd is talking about. Is this it, Todd?

And, everyone else, have you seen Todd's artwork? Talk about multichromatic.

And by the way - where are all my sister ex-wayfers? I'm feeling quite out-numbered by eros people here. -X

Xena -

I like and agree with the "rez's" attitude toward the elderly as you described. The attitude toward old people in our "throwaway" popular culture in pretty damn twisted, IMO. In our culture, people seem to want to remain 25-30 forever. It's weird...

Danny

[Xena]

It's also monochromatic.

[sirguessalot]

i wouldnt say that our modern denial of death is a monochromatic trait

but what happens when we silence that vital middle note

the cross

the heart

the holy grail

and so the fourth horseman rides

Edited April 23, 2006 by sirguessalot

[Xena]

Oh, I disagree. Geeeeeez, Todd, we agree 99% of the time. Wow. This is strange.

I think denying death is one of a zillion droid activities that we have woven into our everyday way of being.

When death occurs unexpectedly, we spend so much money on the proper funeral, trying to make things right, because we don't know how to make it right, how to accept it. It is foreign to us, something we are not taught. People don't talk about it, because it's too scarey or too distracting. Consequently, we have no reference point, no model, and we just "cross that bridge when we come to it". We "wing it". And we try to prove to our peers that we're really OK with our relative's demise, when in reality we're downing prescriptions to help us deal with the pain.

And when death is expected, we put the dying into hospitals, so we won't be responsible when the final day comes. After all, we tried everything, the meds, the machines, the professionals. We don't want to be around it ourselves. We don't want to glimpse the other side, and if we are sitting there beside our grandfather's death bed, we might feel it or touch it. I can only imagine when WE are the ones who are dying, with no preparation -- it must be very empty.

And, like the not-so-invisable Dan said, we insist on maintaining our youth for way too long.

To me ... it's all part of clinging to the monochrome. I don't claim to know my way around that edge of life. I know lots about the other edge - Birth - which has also become institutionalized and medicated, but that's another story.

These are passages, gates, gaps, miracles, uncharted territories ... which some cultures welcome and celebrate. These are people who ride the rainbow. I want to be like that.

-X

[sirguessalot]

well..i actually think i do agree with you, X..and i like how you put it...

that denying death is one of a zillion droid activities that we have woven into our everyday way of being.

sorry if i wasnt very clear

i actually study ars moriendi (the art of dying) at the feet of some world class teachers

and so i typed a real long post on the denial of death...but discarded it

cuz i think the subject is a bit too deep for this thread...and really deserves another

and its not a casual subject at all...perhaps even one of the least casual

perhaps addressing one of the most urgent issues of our time

especially how our manner of dying relates our manner of childbirth

and how unresolved grief contributes to masculine violence

i would rather approach it a bit more mindfully...which i hope to do someday real soon

...

but what i was getting at is how denying death may not fit the idea of being monochromatic as i've been playing with it here...as being limited to a specific level of faith

because the denial of death is not what we get from being in an exclusive level of faith, per se

...but what happens when there is a vital level of faith missing

its more like what we get when there is a shadow being cast over a specific color

"the shadow of death" is not a single color, but a lack of a specific color

"a dark gap in the rainbow"

in this sense,

one can be in a state of monochromatic red, and deny death

one can be in a state of monochromatic orange, and deny death

one can be in a state of monochromatic yellow, and deny death

one can be in a state of monochromatic blue, and deny death

etc...

and so...to agree with you...we can be in any monochromatic or multi-chromatic state and still exclude that level of awareness that is able to process death

we will be "monochromatic" in a sense that we have this monochromatic avoidance

and aware of, or interested in less than a full spectrum of being

and not just from a denial of the death that comes at the end of our lives

but as a denial of how to die to aspects of our self during life

and if we cant die to things during life...we can't transform our lives

These are passages, gates, gaps, miracles, uncharted territories ... which some cultures welcome and celebrate. These are people who ride the rainbow. I want to be like that.

very nice...may your wish be granted

Edited April 23, 2006 by sirguessalot

[Xena]

Todd,

I think you are an apostle. How can you be half my age and twice my intellect? Wow. Humility is what I need now ....

OK ... I'm as humble as I will ever be ... Please teach me (and anyone else who's listening) ... How can we overcome our "Denial of how to die to aspects of ourselves during Life"???

Show us how to ride the Rainbow, the whole Spectrum. Give us a map.

I know this has been the consistent topic of this entire thread, but not so much the how-to. I'm ready. CM, how 'bout you? Invisible Dan, are you with us? Goey? Roy?

Hang on, folks. -X

[sirguessalot]

gotta love yer enthooziasm for this kind of thing, xena

much gratitude for being so direct, and so interested

your invitation means a lot to me, especially coming from you

i do suffer from a certain inability to act without being somehow invited to "come out"

and please know that i'm not as hung up on words like "apostle" and "intellect" as most others seem to be

although i do understand how "an abundance of vision" is a reality that some people face

and can be a terrible curse and a burden, even unto physical illness

especially considering how unbelievably common it is for society to apply fear and shame towards this and other things

in my case, most of my life, most of my emotional and intellectual energy has actually been spent withholding, "hoarding" and otherwise resisting the outward flow of almost constant streams of creative energy from deep within me

so i stay on the surface, hoping someone is interested enough to look into things for themselves

i dont have the energy to sit around all day defending things from people who know little to nothing about them..but have more energy than i do to argue about things they've already made up their mind about

and so if it seems like i am holding a lot back...its because i am

which can hurt like hell...and even seems to be aging me in ways

though i am learning how not to hold back...God help us all

and am also learning how to recover from many years of being in this state

How can we overcome our "Denial of how to die to aspects of ourselves during Life"???

man o man...that is a most sacred question if i've ever seen one

a true word of wisdom

untouchable for being so touchable

unbreakable for being so breakable

i dont even need to answer it, really

because just from asking the question, things will begin to unravel on their own

to whatever depth and degree and duration we sit with the question

the truest teacher will teach us

in other words...you can take this one "to the mountain and back"

like a personal key...it has its own personal value...and how we choose to go about answering it is up to us

this is a big part of what it is to be "free indeed"

when you become spirit...you become the widwife to your own heart and soul

of course, one could handle such questions like Jesus or an aborigine would...and take the question into nature for 40 days and 40 nights

...although i will also warn you and say that your life will be dramatically and radically altered if you do

or, to make it fit more easily with our modern schedule...one could sit with the question for an hour or two

...contemplating the question...nakedly witnessing what arises...without judgement...without shame

not as easy as it sounds, of course

and i know this is a pitiful excuse for an answer

but i am actually writing from within a whirlwind of activity

and i will try and spend more time with it when i can

Show us how to ride the Rainbow, the whole Spectrum. Give us a map.

oh my...you are asking a lot

the best i can do is point

and compare my map with yours

again...i will get back on this thread when i get a chance

Edited April 26, 2006 by sirguessalot

[Xena]

You're absolutely right about "aging" or being "hurt" by holding back what you know to be true. It's gotta come out, or it will damage you. I know this all too well.

And now that I am starting to speak, I'm considered an eccentric by most of my peers. But it feels a lot better than keeping the info inside of me. In fact, by coming forth with ... just a little bit ... just a leak or a wisp of data, I have found that equally eccentric people are coming into my life. Like you, I still hold back the details. And I am certain that my visions are less frequent than yours. But let me tell you this :

Many of the healers who have crossed my path have told me that it is the physical area of the Voice (which would be between your head and shoulders, ie the neck area) which suffers the most substantial damage when a person refuses to speak things that must be spoken. Sore throats, strep, spinal issues in the cervical vertebrae, thyroid problems, muscle tension leading to headaches. Of course, if the spinal cord is impeded at the neck, the result is paralysis of all limbs below. Modern medicine does not acknowledge this severe impact of the emotional/intellectual/spiritual upon the physical ... but traditional medicine knows it is true. Holding back can literally paralyze you.

So ... bust out of that habit!!! This is not TWI.

Greasespot is a safe place.

I know my questions have been big ones, but I don't think I'm the only one who's ready to listen. Tell us another story. Expound on the mono / multichrome. We need instructions. -X

[sirguessalot]

ha…too cool, Xena

thanks again for the invite

so, ok…a bit about maps

first, I think it’s worth repeating how the spectrum may be a sort of divine ruler

but we should keep in mind that whatever we find to measure with it

is but a fragment of truth

are we measuring our inherent interior nature?

or the sequential stages of our interior development?

are we measuring some sense of our overall interior development?

or a single line of growth (such as cognitive growth, or moral growth, etc..)?

are we measuring individual exterior behaviour?

or the activities of systems and societies?

are we measuring the dominant aspect of a group?

or the state of the planet in this era of history?

etc…

in terms of practical work

here are some basic ideas that apply to each layer of our being

and ideally, we should want to be mindful of every aspect in order to be whole

1 – practice healthy eating, healthy breathing, exercise, and good hygiene

2 – practice family rituals and traditions, better relationships, healthy sexuality

3 – practice rational thinking and responsible relationships with material possessions

(this marks a sort of transition from bodily to soulful awareness)

4 – practice compassion and surrender and higher forms of open dialogue and communication

5 – practice learning new things and gaining new knowledge

6 – practice dreamwork, shadow work, journaling, creativity, etc...

(this marks a sort of transition from soulful to spiritual awareness)

7 – practice meditation and contemplation

even as overly simplistic as this map is

I think it also points to a lot of things

particularly the role of actual practice versus the empty religious yackity smackity and a blah blah blah

And I think that as we contemplate the distinctions and implications of this little spread

and we sense an adverse reaction to any level (which is typically an actual felt bodily tension)

we have just touched some sense of shadow within ourselves

which is pretty good news, imo

because we will then also know something very valuable about our interior selves

and know where to start, if we are interested in changing our lives

and "the master is in the garden" as they say

and his lesson is about leaning into pain...not fleeing from it

"to shine a light in a dark place" has more to do with illuminating interior salvation (wholeness)

than foolishly rushing out to pull the motes from the eyes of so-called infidels

of course, this map can and should be taken out and shattered as better maps form and arise in our life

it serves us better as a sand mandala

...like the reworkability of the potter’s clay

...a doodle in the sand of the soul

...a holy child's coloring book...and we are the child, the crayons and the paper

Edited April 28, 2006 by sirguessalot

[Xena]

Well, I think we have lost the rest of the crew, which probably means it is time to start a new thread. We talked about circles earlier, coming around to where we left off, the way some rainbows are purple on both sides.

So this question is the re-connection, the hook-up with the beginning, completing the circle:

In your last post, you listed seven steps. Maybe these correspond to the seven faiths in your first post.

But I think I asked a very monochomatic question when I asked you "How"? Because this is what religions are made of -- do this, don't do that. My apologies. Thanks for giving it a try, but I can see that this was a struggle, reaching down from the multichrome to write a recipe. You are about a zillion levels above religion. Stay there. It's a good place! Seeya in the next thread. -X

[CM]

a hunger Xena

a desire to see

don't stop seeking

ask knock seek and you will find

funny thing is you already have it

as does everyone else

[CM]

Xena, Don't give up there

is more then meets the eye

hang in there - I haven't given up on gsc

Edited May 7, 2006 by CM