Rev 21:7 All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children.
But cowards who turn away from me, and unbelievers, and the corrupt, and murderers, and the immoral, and those who practice witchcraft, and idol worshipers, and all liars--their doom is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death."
Is he distinguishing between “cowards who turn away from me” and “unbelievers”? Could that mean the cowards *could* be born again?
Okay, I brought my hammock, also thre buckets of fried chicken--looks like we are goingto be awhile.
Back to topic--
still waiting for verse that says we are righteous even if we sin
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
There the terminology is "hath any inheritance in", rather than just "inherit".
I believe they are talking about the same thing.
Not that I don't have my understanding problems with this whole concept.
I mean, we are talking about losing inheritance for all eternity?
]"hath any inheritance in", rather than just "inherit".
PLEEAASSE--there isn't an iota of difference either you inherit or you don't--if you have an inheritance you inherit, if you don't have an inheritance you don't
I mean, we are talking about losing inheritance for all eternity? Yep we are and it sure is
I'm not going into LDS theology here because that's not necessary to the conversation, but I can say, I am thankful to be LDS where these questions are answered
1Pe 4:15 - If you suffer, however, it must not be for murder, stealing, making trouble, or prying into other people's affairs.
But it is no shame to suffer for being a Christian. Praise God for the privilege of being called by his wonderful name!
For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin first among God's own children. And if even we Christians must be judged, what terrible fate awaits those who have never believed God's Good News?
And "If the righteous are barely saved, what chance will the godless and sinners have?"
**********
I don't think this one does either, Mo.
That fried chicken smells awesome!!
Funny, allan was looking at the thread, but didn't respond. Guess he can't help us either. <_<
Surely they taught how to back up the logic they were taught in PFAL, weren't they? Surely they studied the doctrine and "made it their own" so that they could teach others and answer the questions others have, didn't they?
For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin first among God's own children. And if even we Christians must be judged, what terrible fate awaits those who have never believed God's Good News?
And "If the righteous are barely saved, what chance will the godless and sinners have?"
Says who? (OH - the self-righteous, critical, religious, Pharasee's - that's who! Well, they're always around.) BTW, just what horrible, terrible, judgement awaits God's children? Sounds more like the sheep trying on the wolves clothing to me.
Well, WTH thats from www.blueletterbible.com and it's 1 Pet 4:18 in the NLV. The top of my post is 1 Pet 4:15-19. I thought the other verse numbers showed up when I pasted the scriptures from the website. My comments are after the string of **** (asterisks).
I didn't write the book, so maybe you should take it up with the author. <_<
Do you have an actual answer to the question posted in the very first post of this thread, can you offer proof to refute those verses or are you just here to blow smoke like OM tried to do?
...I'm not going into LDS theology here because that's not necessary to the conversation, but I can say, I am thankful to be LDS where these questions are answered
Mo, please share what the LDS Church teaches on this, I'm interested.
If you don't want to do on this thread, please feel free to PM me.
1 Pet 3:12 - The eyes of the Lord watch over those who do right, and his ears are open to their prayers. But the Lord turns his face against those who do evil."
1 Pet 3:21 - And this is a picture of baptism, which now saves you by the power of Jesus Christ's resurrection. Baptism is not a removal of dirt from your body; it is an appeal to God from a clean conscience.
*********
How about these?
So, are we to just ignore Jesus? Nothing he says is true or of any value? Pick and choose what you want to believe? Is that how it goes, OM?
[15] But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
[16] Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
[17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
[18] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
[19] Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator
these verses are about suffering for evil deeds as opposed to suffering for standing up for God and Jesus Christ
I am now returning to my hammock, doing genealogy on my laptop, and eating rice krispie treats while waiting for that elusive verse to show up
Sorry, I have a problem with KJV and this version is easier for me to understand. :) How do these fit?
Romans 5:9 And since we have been made right in God's sight by the blood of Christ, he will certainly save us from God's judgment.
v.10 For since we were restored to friendship with God by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be delivered from eternal punishment by his life.
V.13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
v.15 And what a difference between our sin and God's generous gift of forgiveness. For this one man, Adam, brought death to many through his sin. But this other man, Jesus Christ, brought forgiveness to many through God's bountiful gift.
v.16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.
v.17 The sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over us, but all who receive God's wonderful, gracious gift of righteousness will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ.
v.21 So just as sin ruled over all people and brought them to death, now God's wonderful kindness rules instead, giving us right standing with God and resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
but then
Romans 7:17 But I can't help myself, because it is sin inside me that makes me do these evil things.
Romans 7:25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God's law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.
Romans 8:2 For the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you through Christ Jesus from the power of sin that leads to death.
Romans 8:4 He did this so that the requirement of the law would be fully accomplished for us who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.
Romans 8:13 For if you keep on following it, you will perish. But if through the power of the Holy Spirit you turn from it and its evil deeds, you will live.
On the day of Pentecost, some of the crowd responded and asked Peter what should we do?
In Acts 2:38 He answers:Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I believe the key word is REPENT-defined by Strongs as:
1.to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
2.to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins
(emphasis mine)
We have to turn away from and abhor (dislike strongly) all the behaviors at the beginning of this thread. If we really abhor them we will not continue doing them. Jesus said to repent (same Greek root word) because the kingdom of heaven was near. If we really make Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior--we are supposed to be a new creature-not stay in the same old sins. I think Jesus as Lord means more than an intellectual mental assent (Yes I used a twi term!)
Mt 7 talks about how we will know a good tree by its good fruit. It also has the passage in verse 21-23 that says not everyone who calls Jesus Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven even those who did works in his name. Verse 23 says Jesus will tell some that "I never knew you, depart from me, those who work iniquity"
Belle posted about the free gift we have been given. We don't really receive a gift until we do something with it.
From a sola scriptura point of view there could be no exceptions to the scrpritures posted.
However there could indeed be exceptions to and arguments against the presumed or assumed meanings of these scriptures as they sit outside of their context.
Call me a party pooper, but I fail to see a valid point in the exercise. Is there one?
Goey, have some of these bar-b-que short ribs i just brought in and some of these baked beans while you watch the rest of us play
okay Belle lets try the contemporary English version (blue is notes by me)
Romans 5
1By faith we have been made (past tense) acceptable to God. And now, because of our Lord Jesus Christ, we live at peace with God. 2Christ has also introduced us to God's undeserved kindness on which we take our stand. So we are happy, as we look forward to sharing in the glory of God. 3But that's not all! We gladly suffer, because we know that suffering helps us to endure. 4And endurance builds character, which gives us a hope 5 that will never disappoint us. All of this happens because God has given us the Holy Spirit, who fills our hearts with his love. 6Christ died for us at a time when we were (past tense)helpless and sinful. 7No one is really willing to die for an honest person, though someone might be willing to die for a truly good person. 8 But God showed how much he loved us by having Christ die for us, even though we were sinful (past tense). 9But there is more! Now that God has accepted us because Christ sacrificed his life's blood, we will also be kept safe from God's anger. 10Even when we were God's enemies, he made peace with us, because his Son died for us. Yet something even greater than friendship is ours. Now that we are at peace with God, we will be saved by his Son's life. 11And in addition to everything else, we are happy because God sent our Lord Jesus Christ to make peace with us. 12Adam sinned, and that sin brought death into the world. Now everyone has sinned (past tense), and so everyone must die. 13Sin was in the world before the Law came. But no record of sin was kept, because there was no Law. 14Yet death still had power over all who lived from the time of Adam to the time of Moses. This happened, though not everyone disobeyed a direct command from God, as Adam did. In some ways Adam is like Christ who came later. 15But the gift that God was kind enough to give was very different from Adam's sin. That one sin brought death to many others. Yet in an even greater way, Jesus Christ alone brought God's gift of kindness to many people. 16There is a lot of difference between Adam's sin and God's gift. That one sin led to punishment. But God's gift made it possible for us to be acceptable to him, even though we have sinned (past tense) many times. 17Death ruled like a king because Adam had sinned. But that cannot compare with what Jesus Christ has done. God has been so kind to us, and he has accepted us because of Jesus. And so we will live and rule like kings. 18Everyone was going to be punished because Adam sinned. But because of the good thing that Christ has done, God accepts us and gives us the gift of life. 19Adam disobeyed God and caused many others to be sinners. But Jesus obeyed him and will make many people acceptable to God. 20The Law came, so that the full power of sin could be seen. Yet where sin was powerful, God's kindness was even more powerful. 21Sin ruled by means of death. But God's kindness now rules, and God has accepted us because of Jesus Christ our Lord. This means that we will have eternal life.
Romans 6
1What should we say? Should we keep on sinning, so that God's wonderful kindness will show up even better? 2No, we should not! If we are dead to sin, how can we go on sinning? 3Don't you know that all who share in Christ Jesus by being baptized also share in his death? 4When we were baptized, we died and were buried with Christ. We were baptized, so that we would live a new life, as Christ was raised to life by the glory of God the Father
THE whole way through this passage, we are talking about
1 The sin of Adam which was in effect until the Law brought by Moses
2 Our sins Before we Accept Christ
The only sin in the present tense is the Sin in Romans 6 and we are not to do that because we are now Christ's
Romans 3:3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
here's your exception
the faith of God
the doomsday people don't want to see this one
twi is a doomsday religion/cult-whatever
the effect of the faith of God will overide unbelief
From a sola scriptura point of view there could be no exceptions to the scrpritures posted.
However there could indeed be exceptions to and arguments against the presumed or assumed meanings of these scriptures as they sit outside of their context.
Call me a party pooper, but I fail to see a valid point in the exercise. Is there one?
Well, you may not consider it valid, but in this post I've stated my purpose in starting this thread.
Well I thought I would give my 2-bit response. Got a lot of re-evaluating going on here. Is there room on one of the couches? I have a couple of boxes of girl scout cookies!
I think it is good that coolwater makes her opinions known. The post by Goey says "I see no reason for this thread" is a wrong response. I think everyone is having a good time on this thread learning and discussing the scriptures. Now I am not going to say I have read every post but even if the point is for Coolwaters herself isn't that good by itself. But if it is not how about IITim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspriration of God. So my opinion is that I am glad we are discussing the scriptures. :)
The post by Goey says "I see no reason for this thread" is a wrong response. "
CK
CK, if you are going to quote me then please do it properly. I do not appreciate being misquoted. I absoultely did not say, "I see no reason for this thread". What I said was " I fail to see a vaild point..."
What you put between the quote marks should be exactly what someone posted, not what you by your own private interpretation think they meant. Because when you add word , omit a word, change a word or paraphrase what was said , you no longer have the word of Goey.... just your private interpretation of it.
My mistake I did indeed misquoted you. The thread is valid and the point is a experiment. So I fail to see why you can't see a valid point. This is to experiment a valid point that everyone can discuss. But I guess we are failing to make the point known.
Okay, pass the fried chicken, please. I've got my papa san chair warmed up...
How about some different versions, eh?
KING JAMES VERSION:
I Corinthians 6:9 & 10 (KJV)
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
YOUNG'S LITERAL TRANSLATION:
have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,
nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit.
WORLD ENGLISH BIBLE:
6:9 Or don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,
6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortioners, will inherit the Kingdom of God.
THE MESSAGE:
9Don't you realize that this is not the way to live? Unjust people who don't care about God will not be joining in his kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, 10use and abuse the earth and everything in it, don't qualify as citizens in God's kingdom.
(This version makes me want to go over to the pot thread on the General forum...)
Amplified Bible (AMP)
9Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,
10Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
9Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual 10will share in God's kingdom. Neither will any thief or greedy person or drunkard or anyone who curses and cheats others.
New Life Version (NLV)
9Do you not know that sinful men will have no place in the holy nation of God? Do not be fooled. A person who does sex sins, or who worships false gods, or who is not faithful in marriage, or men who act like women, or people who do sex sins with their own sex, will have no place in the holy nation of God. 10Also those who steal, or those who always want to get more of everything, or who get drunk, or who say bad things about others, or take things that are not theirs, will have no place in the holy nation of God.
No new light in any of these, is there? Not really - I mean, nothing we haven't discussed over popcorn and chicken, already...
Sins which, if lived and died in, shut out from the kingdom of God.
The Corinthians are warned against many great evils, of which they had formerly been guilty. There is much force in these inquiries, when we consider that they were addressed to a people puffed up with a fancy of their being above others in wisdom and knowledge. All unrighteousness is sin; all reigning sin, nay, every actual sin, committed with design, and not repented of, shuts out of the kingdom of heaven. Be not deceived. Men are very much inclined to flatter themselves that they
may live in sin, yet die in Christ, and go to heaven. But we cannot hope to sow to the flesh, and reap everlasting life. They are reminded what a change the gospel and grace of God had made in them. The blood of Christ, and the washing of regeneration, can take away all guilt. Our justification is owing to the suffering and merit of Christ; our sanctification to the working of the Holy Spirit; but both go together. All who are made righteous in the sight of God, are made holy by the grace of God. (1Co 6:12-20)
Yet, this commentary expounds - not argues - I Cor. 6:9-10 - but does it by looking more into the context in which the verses were presented.
So, I'll settle back onto my papa san, lift my glass of wine in salute, and watch what happens next....
Someone correct me if I'm wrong - not that's that something I have to ask for around here - but, isn't the point of this that this scripture is pretty clear about the behavior that someone, a believer, in the body must have to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven? And aren't there some people who post in these-here-parts who believe you can live like... er... or even SHE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED and till inherit the Kingdom of Heaven (i.e. rewards at the bema, etc.)??
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Scarey :(
There seems to be much more to it than the reitation of Romans and sit ing...
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Belle
Rev 21:7 All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children.
But cowards who turn away from me, and unbelievers, and the corrupt, and murderers, and the immoral, and those who practice witchcraft, and idol worshipers, and all liars--their doom is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death."
Is he distinguishing between “cowards who turn away from me” and “unbelievers”? Could that mean the cowards *could* be born again?
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templelady
Okay, I brought my hammock, also thre buckets of fried chicken--looks like we are goingto be awhile.
Back to topic--
still waiting for verse that says we are righteous even if we sin
]"hath any inheritance in", rather than just "inherit".
PLEEAASSE--there isn't an iota of difference either you inherit or you don't--if you have an inheritance you inherit, if you don't have an inheritance you don't
I mean, we are talking about losing inheritance for all eternity? Yep we are and it sure is
I'm not going into LDS theology here because that's not necessary to the conversation, but I can say, I am thankful to be LDS where these questions are answered
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Belle
1Pe 4:15 - If you suffer, however, it must not be for murder, stealing, making trouble, or prying into other people's affairs.
But it is no shame to suffer for being a Christian. Praise God for the privilege of being called by his wonderful name!
For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin first among God's own children. And if even we Christians must be judged, what terrible fate awaits those who have never believed God's Good News?
And "If the righteous are barely saved, what chance will the godless and sinners have?"
**********
I don't think this one does either, Mo.
That fried chicken smells awesome!!
Funny, allan was looking at the thread, but didn't respond. Guess he can't help us either. <_<
Surely they taught how to back up the logic they were taught in PFAL, weren't they? Surely they studied the doctrine and "made it their own" so that they could teach others and answer the questions others have, didn't they?
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What The Hey
Says who? (OH - the self-righteous, critical, religious, Pharasee's - that's who! Well, they're always around.) BTW, just what horrible, terrible, judgement awaits God's children? Sounds more like the sheep trying on the wolves clothing to me.
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Belle
Well, WTH thats from www.blueletterbible.com and it's 1 Pet 4:18 in the NLV. The top of my post is 1 Pet 4:15-19. I thought the other verse numbers showed up when I pasted the scriptures from the website. My comments are after the string of **** (asterisks).
I didn't write the book, so maybe you should take it up with the author. <_<
Do you have an actual answer to the question posted in the very first post of this thread, can you offer proof to refute those verses or are you just here to blow smoke like OM tried to do?
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oldiesman
Mo, please share what the LDS Church teaches on this, I'm interested.
If you don't want to do on this thread, please feel free to PM me.
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Belle
1 Pet 3:12 - The eyes of the Lord watch over those who do right, and his ears are open to their prayers. But the Lord turns his face against those who do evil."
1 Pet 3:21 - And this is a picture of baptism, which now saves you by the power of Jesus Christ's resurrection. Baptism is not a removal of dirt from your body; it is an appeal to God from a clean conscience.
*********
How about these?
So, are we to just ignore Jesus? Nothing he says is true or of any value? Pick and choose what you want to believe? Is that how it goes, OM?
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templelady
Context, it's all about context
1 Peter 4
[15] But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
[16] Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
[17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
[18] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
[19] Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator
these verses are about suffering for evil deeds as opposed to suffering for standing up for God and Jesus Christ
I am now returning to my hammock, doing genealogy on my laptop, and eating rice krispie treats while waiting for that elusive verse to show up
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Belle
Sorry, I have a problem with KJV and this version is easier for me to understand. :) How do these fit?
Romans 5:9 And since we have been made right in God's sight by the blood of Christ, he will certainly save us from God's judgment.
v.10 For since we were restored to friendship with God by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be delivered from eternal punishment by his life.
V.13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
v.15 And what a difference between our sin and God's generous gift of forgiveness. For this one man, Adam, brought death to many through his sin. But this other man, Jesus Christ, brought forgiveness to many through God's bountiful gift.
v.16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.
v.17 The sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over us, but all who receive God's wonderful, gracious gift of righteousness will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ.
v.21 So just as sin ruled over all people and brought them to death, now God's wonderful kindness rules instead, giving us right standing with God and resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
but then
Romans 7:17 But I can't help myself, because it is sin inside me that makes me do these evil things.
Romans 7:25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God's law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.
Romans 8:2 For the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you through Christ Jesus from the power of sin that leads to death.
Romans 8:4 He did this so that the requirement of the law would be fully accomplished for us who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.
Romans 8:13 For if you keep on following it, you will perish. But if through the power of the Holy Spirit you turn from it and its evil deeds, you will live.
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penguin
On the day of Pentecost, some of the crowd responded and asked Peter what should we do?
In Acts 2:38 He answers:Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I believe the key word is REPENT-defined by Strongs as:
1.to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
2.to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins
(emphasis mine)
We have to turn away from and abhor (dislike strongly) all the behaviors at the beginning of this thread. If we really abhor them we will not continue doing them. Jesus said to repent (same Greek root word) because the kingdom of heaven was near. If we really make Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior--we are supposed to be a new creature-not stay in the same old sins. I think Jesus as Lord means more than an intellectual mental assent (Yes I used a twi term!)
Mt 7 talks about how we will know a good tree by its good fruit. It also has the passage in verse 21-23 that says not everyone who calls Jesus Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven even those who did works in his name. Verse 23 says Jesus will tell some that "I never knew you, depart from me, those who work iniquity"
Belle posted about the free gift we have been given. We don't really receive a gift until we do something with it.
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ckmkeon
Coolwaters
Well I have a answer for you actually there is 2 answers
One we are in the age of grace in which Jesus Christ has paid for our sins
Then my second answer is
Romans 3:23,24
23.For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God
24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemtion that is in Christ Jesus
Hopefully this answers you question
CK
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Goey
Trick questions.
From a sola scriptura point of view there could be no exceptions to the scrpritures posted.
However there could indeed be exceptions to and arguments against the presumed or assumed meanings of these scriptures as they sit outside of their context.
Call me a party pooper, but I fail to see a valid point in the exercise. Is there one?
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templelady
Goey, have some of these bar-b-que short ribs i just brought in and some of these baked beans while you watch the rest of us play
okay Belle lets try the contemporary English version (blue is notes by me)
Romans 5
1By faith we have been made (past tense) acceptable to God. And now, because of our Lord Jesus Christ, we live at peace with God. 2Christ has also introduced us to God's undeserved kindness on which we take our stand. So we are happy, as we look forward to sharing in the glory of God. 3But that's not all! We gladly suffer, because we know that suffering helps us to endure. 4And endurance builds character, which gives us a hope 5 that will never disappoint us. All of this happens because God has given us the Holy Spirit, who fills our hearts with his love. 6Christ died for us at a time when we were (past tense)helpless and sinful. 7No one is really willing to die for an honest person, though someone might be willing to die for a truly good person. 8 But God showed how much he loved us by having Christ die for us, even though we were sinful (past tense). 9But there is more! Now that God has accepted us because Christ sacrificed his life's blood, we will also be kept safe from God's anger. 10Even when we were God's enemies, he made peace with us, because his Son died for us. Yet something even greater than friendship is ours. Now that we are at peace with God, we will be saved by his Son's life. 11And in addition to everything else, we are happy because God sent our Lord Jesus Christ to make peace with us. 12Adam sinned, and that sin brought death into the world. Now everyone has sinned (past tense), and so everyone must die. 13Sin was in the world before the Law came. But no record of sin was kept, because there was no Law. 14Yet death still had power over all who lived from the time of Adam to the time of Moses. This happened, though not everyone disobeyed a direct command from God, as Adam did. In some ways Adam is like Christ who came later. 15But the gift that God was kind enough to give was very different from Adam's sin. That one sin brought death to many others. Yet in an even greater way, Jesus Christ alone brought God's gift of kindness to many people. 16There is a lot of difference between Adam's sin and God's gift. That one sin led to punishment. But God's gift made it possible for us to be acceptable to him, even though we have sinned (past tense) many times. 17Death ruled like a king because Adam had sinned. But that cannot compare with what Jesus Christ has done. God has been so kind to us, and he has accepted us because of Jesus. And so we will live and rule like kings. 18Everyone was going to be punished because Adam sinned. But because of the good thing that Christ has done, God accepts us and gives us the gift of life. 19Adam disobeyed God and caused many others to be sinners. But Jesus obeyed him and will make many people acceptable to God. 20The Law came, so that the full power of sin could be seen. Yet where sin was powerful, God's kindness was even more powerful. 21Sin ruled by means of death. But God's kindness now rules, and God has accepted us because of Jesus Christ our Lord. This means that we will have eternal life.
Romans 6
1What should we say? Should we keep on sinning, so that God's wonderful kindness will show up even better? 2No, we should not! If we are dead to sin, how can we go on sinning? 3Don't you know that all who share in Christ Jesus by being baptized also share in his death? 4When we were baptized, we died and were buried with Christ. We were baptized, so that we would live a new life, as Christ was raised to life by the glory of God the Father
THE whole way through this passage, we are talking about
1 The sin of Adam which was in effect until the Law brought by Moses
2 Our sins Before we Accept Christ
The only sin in the present tense is the Sin in Romans 6 and we are not to do that because we are now Christ's
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Goey
Chomp, knaw, smack !
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CM
Romans 3:3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
here's your exception
the doomsday people don't want to see this one
twi is a doomsday religion/cult-whatever
the effect of the faith of God will overide unbelief
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CoolWaters
Well, you may not consider it valid, but in this post I've stated my purpose in starting this thread.
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Belle
<_< So we're still not there, eh, Mo?
Those ribs smell really good! I have some fried okra and collards to contribute to the menu.
Penguin and ck, those are good points.
I like the way you're thinking.
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penguin
Well I thought I would give my 2-bit response. Got a lot of re-evaluating going on here. Is there room on one of the couches? I have a couple of boxes of girl scout cookies!
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ckmkeon
I think it is good that coolwater makes her opinions known. The post by Goey says "I see no reason for this thread" is a wrong response. I think everyone is having a good time on this thread learning and discussing the scriptures. Now I am not going to say I have read every post but even if the point is for Coolwaters herself isn't that good by itself. But if it is not how about IITim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspriration of God. So my opinion is that I am glad we are discussing the scriptures. :)
CK
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Goey
CK, if you are going to quote me then please do it properly. I do not appreciate being misquoted. I absoultely did not say, "I see no reason for this thread". What I said was " I fail to see a vaild point..."
What you put between the quote marks should be exactly what someone posted, not what you by your own private interpretation think they meant. Because when you add word , omit a word, change a word or paraphrase what was said , you no longer have the word of Goey.... just your private interpretation of it.
Thanks
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ckmkeon
My mistake I did indeed misquoted you. The thread is valid and the point is a experiment. So I fail to see why you can't see a valid point. This is to experiment a valid point that everyone can discuss. But I guess we are failing to make the point known.
CK
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ChasUFarley
Okay, pass the fried chicken, please. I've got my papa san chair warmed up...
How about some different versions, eh?
KING JAMES VERSION:
I Corinthians 6:9 & 10 (KJV)
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
YOUNG'S LITERAL TRANSLATION:
have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,
nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit.
WORLD ENGLISH BIBLE:
6:9 Or don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,
6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortioners, will inherit the Kingdom of God.
THE MESSAGE:
9Don't you realize that this is not the way to live? Unjust people who don't care about God will not be joining in his kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, 10use and abuse the earth and everything in it, don't qualify as citizens in God's kingdom.
(This version makes me want to go over to the pot thread on the General forum...)
Amplified Bible (AMP)
9Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,
10Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
9Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual 10will share in God's kingdom. Neither will any thief or greedy person or drunkard or anyone who curses and cheats others.
New Life Version (NLV)
9Do you not know that sinful men will have no place in the holy nation of God? Do not be fooled. A person who does sex sins, or who worships false gods, or who is not faithful in marriage, or men who act like women, or people who do sex sins with their own sex, will have no place in the holy nation of God. 10Also those who steal, or those who always want to get more of everything, or who get drunk, or who say bad things about others, or take things that are not theirs, will have no place in the holy nation of God.
No new light in any of these, is there? Not really - I mean, nothing we haven't discussed over popcorn and chicken, already...
But here's this commentary:
Sins which, if lived and died in, shut out from the kingdom of God.
The Corinthians are warned against many great evils, of which they had formerly been guilty. There is much force in these inquiries, when we consider that they were addressed to a people puffed up with a fancy of their being above others in wisdom and knowledge. All unrighteousness is sin; all reigning sin, nay, every actual sin, committed with design, and not repented of, shuts out of the kingdom of heaven. Be not deceived. Men are very much inclined to flatter themselves that they
may live in sin, yet die in Christ, and go to heaven. But we cannot hope to sow to the flesh, and reap everlasting life. They are reminded what a change the gospel and grace of God had made in them. The blood of Christ, and the washing of regeneration, can take away all guilt. Our justification is owing to the suffering and merit of Christ; our sanctification to the working of the Holy Spirit; but both go together. All who are made righteous in the sight of God, are made holy by the grace of God. (1Co 6:12-20)
Yet, this commentary expounds - not argues - I Cor. 6:9-10 - but does it by looking more into the context in which the verses were presented.
So, I'll settle back onto my papa san, lift my glass of wine in salute, and watch what happens next....
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ChasUFarley
Someone correct me if I'm wrong - not that's that something I have to ask for around here - but, isn't the point of this that this scripture is pretty clear about the behavior that someone, a believer, in the body must have to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven? And aren't there some people who post in these-here-parts who believe you can live like... er...
or even SHE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED and till inherit the Kingdom of Heaven (i.e. rewards at the bema, etc.)??
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