You just might be surprised at what these people have here in this forum compared to others. Canarys in a coal mine so to speak it has been said here and from those encountering some of these members.
Before moving on with the Scriptures, I feel it is necessary to speak with two of our guests: dancing and sirguessalot.
dancing,
Even though you have a chronic need to rely on your disagreeable manner to interact with us, the fact remains you are here… which means you are reading the Scriptures… and that’s good.
For the sake of the truth, though, I feel I must address another one of your accusations… that I am using incorrect terminology by using the word “return.”
We are talking about Christ and the Parousia, which is defined as, “coming, return, advent, presence, being present, and arrival.”
The other Greek word translated as “coming” is Apokalupsis, which means, “appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.”
Together, Apokalupsis and Parousia provide us with the prophetic picture of what shall be; the definitions of these words are in perfect harmony with the Scriptures that speak to the subject: It is the arrival of the personal presence of Christ, returning from Heaven, which is the advent, which is his coming into the world, and how Christ’s glory shall be revealed when he appears in the clouds to transform the church and later when he rescues Israel.
revvel
sirguessalot,
What can I say?
Did I walk into one of your threads and launch a personal assault on one of your guests?
No…
Yet, you felt the liberty to attack one of my guests?
Do you honestly believe I have any interest in your opinion about anyone on this thread?
sirguessalot… You apologized: "sorry rev, this is just getting old" I accept your apology.
If you apologize to Allan and the other guests following this thread that would mean much to me.
Now… I feel it is appropriate that we return to this question:
If the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah turned out to be about the literal, personal presence of Jesus the Christ, then is it logical, or illogical, to believe that the prophecies about the second coming of the Messiah will turn out to be about the literal, personal presence of Jesus the Christ?
I first posed this question to you back on Apr 13 2006, 06:24 PM …
You responded on Apr 13 2006, 08:13 PM by saying this: "so...i hope you dont mind if i dont answer the rest of your questions ...though i still will, if you wish"
You offered us no indication that the question is unanswerable. In fact, you were prepared to answer it.
Now… a few weeks later, the question becomes unanswerable?
Now… you claim you didn’t respond to it in April because it is “too incomplete to be logical or answerable”?
Your response: Jun 16 2006, 03:24 AM "neither...and the reason i did not answer this before, is because the question is too incomplete to be logical or answerable"
I decided to run this question by an editor and a professor…
Both found no fault with the integrity of the question. The editor said the question is complete and quite answerable… and felt your response is an indication that you didn't want to answer the question. Which, coincidently, is precisely the impression you gave us in your first post: the question is complete and quite answerable… You simply chose not to answer it.
Relative to the question, I have two words for your consideration: Apokalupsis and Parousia.
There is no scriptural justification to deny the literal definitions of the words and there is no scriptural justification to deny the literal parallels to the actual prophecies given.
Apokalupsis and Parousia speak of the second part of a unified prophecy.
I am born again because I believed literally… By the grace of God, I have witnessed the fulfillment of prophecy already…
If a literal rendering of what is literally stated brought about the fulfillment of the first part of the prophecy (being filled with the Holy Spirit), then is it logical, or illogical to pursue the same path (a literal rendering of what is literally stated) regarding the second part of the prophecy (Christ's descent from Heaven)?
If you chose a different approach to the Scriptures, you can share your justification for doing so with Christ when you stand before him.
revvel
THE CELESTIAL SIGNS: MATTHEW, PETER, JOHN, ISAIAH, AND JOEL
The celestial signs that mark Christ’s arrival for the church are similar to the signs that mark Christ’s arrival for Israel—but they are not identical.
We can see these two, separate prophecies by looking at one prophet: Joel.
SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO THE CHURCH
And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved; . . .
SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO ISRAEL
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said, among the survivors whom the Lord calls. In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land. . . . Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men draw near and attack. Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, “I am strong!” Come quickly, all you nations from every side, and assemble there. Bring down your warriors [includes the church], O Lord! Let the nations be roused; let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side. Swing the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, trample the grapes, for the winepress is full and the vats overflow—so great is their wickedness! Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine. The Lord will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the Lord will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel. Then you will know that I, the Lord your God, dwell in Zion, my holy hill. Jerusalem will be holy; never again will foreigners invade her. (Joel 2:28-32; 3:1, 2, 9-17)
What is a primary difference between the celestial signs that mark Christ’s arrival for the church and Israel?
The moon.
When Christ arrives in the clouds for the church, the moon will turn “blood red.” The blood-red moon is an omen that judgment is about to befall the Earth.
When Christ returns seven years later for Israel, the “moon will be darkened.”
“Blood red” means “blood red.”
“Darkened” means “darkened.”
When Christ descends for us, the church, we will see a darkened sky but we will see the moon turn blood red. This is the revelation Christ gave to Peter and John.
SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO THE CHURCH
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth. (Rev. 6:12, 13)
In contrast, when Christ descends for Israel, those left on the Earth will see a darkened sky—but not a blood-red moon, a darkened moon. It is against this darkness of space, that those on the planet will see Christ descend from Heaven (with his armies, his saints (the church), his warriors). This is the revelation Christ gave to Matthew.
SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO ISRAEL
Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. (Matt. 24:29)
Christ’s final revelation to John expounds upon these two prophecies: salvation exclusive to the church is marked at the sixth seal, and salvation exclusive to Israel is marked at chapter 19—when Christ descends from Heaven with us, the saints.
What are the events that will come to pass between the salvation of the church and the salvation of Israel? How much time will elapse between the two salvations?
Christ told us… in the revelation he gave to Matthew and John.
What are the events that precede the salvation of Israel and how much time is marked?
CHRIST’S REVELATION TO MATTHEW
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.” (Matt. 24:15-23)
In the midst of Christ’s revelation to Matthew, Christ referenced Daniel.
Why did Christ quote Daniel?
What are we to learn from this?
What Christ referenced from Daniel is in bold:
He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one “seven” [seven years]. In the middle of the “seven” he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him [the Antichrist]. (Dan. 9:27)
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [Daniel’s people: Israel]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people [israel] shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan. 12:1 KJV)
Why did Christ quote Daniel in the context of Israel’s salvation?
The “abomination that causes desolation” is spoken of in the context of the seven-year prophecy: “one seven.” It is the final seven years of prophecy for Daniel’s people, known also as the seventieth “seven.”
CHRIST’S REVELATION TO JOHN
Did Christ identify a seven-year prophecy in the revelation he gave to John?
Yes.
Does this seven-year prophecy occur during the seventh seal?
Yes.
Where in Revelation did Christ mark the start of the seven-year prophecy?
And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. (Rev. 11:3-7)
What happens at the midpoint of the seven-year prophecy?
Christ told us: the Antichrist shall kill God’s prophets. It is then that Antichrist “is given a [big] mouth”:
The beast [the Antichrist] was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. . . . Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. (Rev. 13:5, 11)
John’s seven-year prophecy that precedes Israel’s salvation has yet to be fulfilled.
Daniel’s seven-year prophecy that precedes Israel’s salvation has yet to be fulfilled.
Are we as Christ’s church supposed to believe that it is just a coincidence that Christ referenced Daniel’s seven-year prophecy and spoke of a seven-year prophecy in Revelation, and that it is just a coincidence that Daniel’s prophecy speaks of events that shall lead up to Israel’s salvation and the destruction of the Antichrist, and John’s prophecy speaks of events that shall lead up to Israel’s salvation and the destruction of the Antichrist?
Why else would Christ mark a seven-year prophecy between the salvation of the church and the salvation of Israel, unless there is a seven-year prophecy between the salvation of the church and the salvation of Israel?
THE HARMONY BETWEEN THE PROPHETS AND APOSTLES
Daniel and John are in agreement about the seven-year prophecy—and no one in the Bible disagrees with them.
Joel, Peter, and John prophesied of the moon turning blood red when the church is saved, and Joel and Matthew prophesied of the moon turning dark when Israel is saved—and no one in Bible disagrees with them.
The Four Horsemen—released with the opening of the first four seals—precede the descent of Christ in the clouds to save the church (the sixth seal).
Who are Four Horsemen?
Just as the Book of Revelation expounds upon the relative nature of what the prophets and apostles prophesied about “the day of the Lord,” the prophets and apostles help us to understand the prophecies found in Revelation. In the case of this post, it is the prophet Zechariah who enables us to make a definitive statement about the Four Horsemen—and about the two witnesses of Revelation 11.
Who is the Fifth Horseman? Christ.
INTRODUCTION
Just as John the Baptist was of divine origin sent to fulfill a divine purpose before the first coming of Christ to Israel…
And just as the two witnesses are of divine origin sent to fulfill a divine purpose before the second coming of Christ to Israel…
The Four Horsemen are of divine origin sent to fulfill a divine purpose before the arrival of Christ to save the church.
THE FIRST COMING OF THE MESSIAH: JOHN THE BAPTIST
God sent John the Baptist to precede the Messiah’s first coming to Israel.
What was his role in preparing the way for the Messiah?
A voice of one [John] calling in the desert, “Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.” (Matt. 3:3)
I [John] baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. (Matt. 3:11)
I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel. (John 1:31)
Just as God prepared the world for the first coming of the Messiah to Israel, God shall prepare the world for the second coming of the Messiah to Israel. Different times demand different roles for those sent by God.
Whereas divine blessing was upon the Earth via John the Baptist to prepare the way for the salvation of all bloodlines, divine judgment shall be upon the Earth via the two witnesses and the Four Horsemen to prepare the way for the salvation of Israel and the salvation of the church, respectively.
THE TWO WITNESSES
God shall send two witnesses to precede the Messiah’s second coming to Israel.
What is their role in preparing the way for the Messiah?
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. (Rev. 11:3-6 kjv)
The two witnesses shall speak the Word of God and bring God’s righteous judgment upon the unrighteous.
Who are the two witnesses?
God told us, through an angel who spoke to Zechariah:
And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep, And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. . . . Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. (Zech. 4:1-3, 11-14 kjv)
The two witnesses “are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
THE FOUR HORSEMEN
The vision that follows sets the stage for those things that must be hereafter; it is a vision that immediately precedes the release of the Four Horsemen.
And I [John] saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. (Rev. 5:1-5 kjv)
Christ’s vision to John is drawing our attention to where? Heaven.
It is the King of Kings who opens the seals in Heaven, and with the opening of the first four seals, the Four Horsemen are released.
If the Four Horsemen are released prior to the salvation of the church (the sixth seal), then are they released during the time of wrath, or grace? Grace.
Wrath doesn’t begin until after the church is gathered. Therefore, the Four Horsemen shall fulfill their role… simultaneous to us fulfilling our individual roles as members of the body of Christ… during the age of grace.
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts [living creatures] saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast [living creature] say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: to and power was given him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast [living creature] say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast [living creature] say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell [Greek: Hades: the grave] followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. (Rev. 6:1-8 kjv)
Who are the Four Horsemen?
There is no need to project our imagination onto the Scriptures and come up with an interpretation based on our own modern times and culture, for God already gave us the correct answer 2500 years ago by way of the same prophet who spoke to us about the “two anointed ones”: Zechariah.
And I [Zechariah] turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass. In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses. Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.
The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country. And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth. Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country. (Zech. 6:1-8)
Who are the Four Horsemen? “The four spirits of the heavens.”
The parallels between the two witnesses and the Four Horsemen are unmistakable: they bring righteous judgment to the Earth.
Are we as Christ’s church supposed to believe that it is just a coincidence that Zechariah and John both saw a vision of the “two olive trees” (the “two anointed ones”/the “two witnesses”), and that it is just a coincidence that the same prophet, Zechariah, saw a vision of “the four spirits of the heavens” that appeared as four separate chariots with horses and John saw a vision of four separate horses?
What are we to learn from the visions given to Zechariah and John?
The angel said to Zechariah, “Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.” The word “quieted” means to “give comfort” and “(cause to…) rest.”
If the horsemen bring comfort to an angel of God, and bring judgment to the unrighteous, then it is evident that the horsemen bring comfort to the righteous and discomfort to the unrighteous.
THE FIFTH HORSEMAN: CHRIST: THE SECOND COMING TO ISRAEL
The divine judgment brought to Earth by the Four Horsemen foreshadows the divine judgment brought to Earth by the Fifth Horseman: Christ.
I [John] saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. [Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints (Rev. 19:8).] Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, “so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great.”
Then I saw the beast [the Antichrist] and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. (Rev. 19:11–21)
See, the Lord is coming with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind; he will bring down his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. (Isa. 66:15)
This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. (2 Thess. 1:7-10)
Whereas the Four Horsemen mark the beginning of the end of all that has been prophesied about the church and Israel, the Messiah riding on his white horse will descend to Earth along with us, the church, following on white horses, and Christ will fulfill the promises found in the covenant with Israel—seven years after the seventh seal opens.
It is the fulfillment of Gabriel’s revelation to Daniel, when the Antichrist shall be destroyed:
He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one “seven” [seven years]. In the middle of the “seven” he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him [the Antichrist]. (Dan. 9:27)
The “end that is decreed” shall be “poured out” on the Antichrist at the end of the seven-year prophecy—which commences exactly where Christ marked it: “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days (3.5 years).” In the middle of this seven-year prophecy, the Antichrist will put an end to sacrifice and offering and will kill the prophets, and then the Antichrist shall reign for 3.5 years after committing murder—only to see his reign end by way of the Fifth Horseman: Christ.
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
KJV: Re 1:11
11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
KJV: Re 1:12
12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
KJV: Re 1:13
13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
KJV: Re 1:16
16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
KJV: Re 1:20
20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
KJV: Re 2:1
Chapter 2
1Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
KJV: Re 3:1
Chapter 3
1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
KJV: Re 4:5
5And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
KJV: Re 5:1
Chapter 5
1And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
KJV: Re 5:5
5And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
KJV: Re 5:6
6And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
KJV: Re 8:2
2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
KJV: Re 8:6
6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
KJV: Re 10:3
3And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
KJV: Re 10:4
4And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
KJV: Re 11:13
13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
KJV: Re 12:3
3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
KJV: Re 13:1
Chapter 13
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
KJV: Re 15:1
Chapter 15
1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
KJV: Re 15:6
6And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
KJV: Re 15:7
7And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
KJV: Re 15:8
8And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
KJV: Re 16:1
Chapter 16
1And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
KJV: Re 17:1
Chapter 17
1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
KJV: Re 17:3
3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
KJV: Re 17:7
7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
KJV: Re 17:9
9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
KJV: Re 17:10
10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
KJV: Re 17:11
11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV: Re 21:9
9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.
You asked a good question: Are the seven churches of Revelation… the church of God?
In the revelation that Christ gave to his apostles, there is a repeating pattern in the introductory sentences:
1. The writer introduces himself.
2. The writer addresses the revelation.
3. The writer specifically identifies characteristics that can only be true for the church of God—those who embraced Jesus as their Lord and have received salvation.
4. The writer speaks of the future salvation of the church when Christ shall be revealed in the clouds.
Take a look at the repeating pattern found in the revelation given to John, Paul, and Peter.
CHRIST’S REVELATION TO JOHN
John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia. . . . To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his [Christ’s] blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. LOOK, HE [CHRIST] IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, AND EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM, EVEN THOSE WHO PIERCED HIM; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen. (Rev. 1:4, 6, 7)
Who are those who have been freed from their sins by Christ’s “blood”?
For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. (1 Peter 1:18, 19)
Who are those who are now within the “kingdom”?
For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. (Col. 1:13, 14)
To which group of people is John writing?
“The Jews. . . the Gentiles. . . [or] the church of God” (1 Cor. 10:32 kjv). The church of God…
Those who are in the church have been freed from their sins and are in the kingdom of Christ—and each member of the body of Christ is a priest. How?
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. (Rom. 12:1)
We in the church do not offer dead sacrifices as the priests did in the times of the Old Covenant, but rather, with the New Covenant, we offer our lives as living sacrifices. Herein, everyone in the body of Christ is his or her own priest before the great high priest: Christ.
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. (Heb. 4:14)
CHRIST’S REVELATION TO PAUL
Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours. Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
I always thank God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus. For in him you have been enriched in every way—in all your speaking and in all your knowledge—because our testimony about Christ was confirmed in you. THEREFORE YOU DO NOT LACK ANY SPIRITUAL GIFT AS YOU EAGERLY WAIT FOR OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST TO BE REVEALED. HE WILL KEEP YOU STRONG TO THE END, SO THAT YOU WILL BE BLAMELESS ON THE DAY OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. (1 Cor. 1:1-8)
Who are those sanctified in Christ Jesus?
Those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus are the same people who are freed from their sins by the blood of Lamb: the church of God.
There is one, universal church (of God) which is composed of many churches (assemblies). Both John and Paul addressed their correspondence to the churches (assemblies) within the church of God. Whereas Paul wrote to seven churches via individual letters, John wrote to seven churches via a book.
CHRIST’S REVELATION TO PETER
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth INTO A LIVING HOPE THROUGH THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE DEAD, AND INTO AN INHERITANCE THAT CAN NEVER PERISH, SPOIL OR FADE—KEPT IN HEAVEN FOR YOU, WHO THROUGH FAITH ARE SHIELDED BY GOD’S POWER UNTIL THE COMING OF THE SALVATION THAT IS READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME. (1 Peter 1:1-5)
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. (1 Peter 2:9, 10)
Who are “God’s elect” “chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood”?
Who are those who have received the “new birth”?
Who are “now” “the people of God”?
Who has “now. . . received mercy”?
Who “are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God”?
Who has a “living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead”?
Us. The church of God…
John, Paul, and Peter wrote to us, the church of God.
How can any theologian, any minister, any Christian successfully overturn or explain away the truth about us… given to us… by Christ’s apostles?
THE NUMBER SEVEN
As we know, throughout Revelation, John consistently stops at the number seven.
Why?
Revelation is the final prophetic picture given to us. It marks the fulfillment of prophecies given to us by the prophets and apostles.
Why else would John stop at "seven" unless “seven” marked the divine apex in the fulfillment of divine will and thought?
What follows is taken from E.W. Bullinger’s Companion Bible: “Seven. Denotes spiritual perfection. It is the number or hall-mark of the Holy Spirit’s work.”
THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE FOUR HORSEMEN: THE BIRTH PAINS
There is a progression of thought in the Bible: the New Testament apostles expound upon prophecies spoken by the Old Testament prophets. The prophecy of the Four Horsemen is not an exception.
The vision given to John of the Four Horsemen was first given to Zechariah (6): the “four spirits of the heavens.” The role of the “four spirits of the heavens” in the end times was first given to Ezekiel; the “four spirits” shall bring the “four dreadful judgments” to the Earth.
The “four spirits of the heavens”—the Four Horsemen—are agents of Heaven’s will who bring judgment. With judgment comes tribulation upon the Earth. In the case of the end-times judgment, that tribulation represents “birth pains.”
Just what exactly do birth pains precede?
The birth pains precede the “birth” of the transformed church off the Earth (the sixth seal), and the “rebirth” of Israel after the second coming of Christ to Israel (the seventh seal).
According to Christ’s revelation to John, tribulation from Heaven upon the Earth has a distinct beginning (when the first seal opens), and continues through the seventh seal—intensifying right up to when Israel is saved. Christ is revealing this: birth pains not only precede the salvation of Israel, they precede the salvation of the church. The release of the Four Horsemen brings the promise of the fulfillment of all that has been written about the church and Israel.
THE FOUR HORSEMEN: JOHN AND EZEKIEL
JOHN
And power was given unto them [the Four Horsemen] over the fourth part of the earth, TO KILL WITH SWORD, AND WITH HUNGER, AND WITH DEATH, AND WITH THE BEASTS OF THE EARTH. (Rev. 6:8 kjv)
EZEKIEL
For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my FOUR DREADFUL JUDGMENTS—SWORD AND FAMINE AND WILD BEASTS AND PLAGUE—to kill its men and their animals! Yet there will be some survivors—sons and daughters who will be brought out of it. They will come to you, and when you see their conduct and their actions, you will be consoled regarding the disaster I have brought upon Jerusalem—every disaster I have brought upon it. You will be consoled when you see their conduct and their actions, for you will know that I have done nothing in it without cause, declares the Sovereign Lord. (Ezek. 14:21-23)
Divine judgment is the final stage of a just and patient God who seeks for all to be saved. When divine redemption is beyond the reach of man’s mind because of man’s depravity, then judgment must follow—for God is a righteous and just God and that requires judgment. Divine judgment is not only upon the unrighteous Gentiles, but as seen throughout the Old Testament, divine judgment is upon the unrighteous Israelites.
Ezekiel prophesied of judgment upon Jerusalem that shall come to pass in the end times.
EZEKIEL
This is what the Sovereign Lord says: This is Jerusalem, which I have set in the center of the nations, with countries all around her. Yet in her wickedness she has rebelled against my laws and decrees more than the nations and countries around her. She has rejected my laws and has not followed my decrees. Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: You have been more unruly than the nations around you and have not followed my decrees or kept my laws. You have not even conformed to the standards of the nations around you. Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I myself am against you, Jerusalem, and I will inflict punishment on you in the sight of the nations. Because of all your detestable idols, I WILL DO TO YOU WHAT I HAVE NEVER DONE BEFORE AND WILL NEVER DO AGAIN. (Ezek. 5:5-9)
MATTHEW
FOR THEN THERE WILL BE GREAT DISTRESS, UNEQUALED FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD UNTIL NOW—AND NEVER TO BE EQUALED AGAIN. (Matt. 24:21)
EZEKIEL
WHEN I SHOOT AT YOU WITH MY DEADLY AND DESTRUCTIVE ARROWS OF FAMINE, I will shoot to destroy you. I will bring more and more famine upon you and cut off your supply of food. I WILL SEND FAMINE AND WILD BEASTS against you, and they will leave you childless. PLAGUE AND BLOODSHED will sweep through you, and I WILL BRING THE SWORD AGAINST YOU. I the Lord have spoken. (Ezek. 5:16, 17)
Ezekiel prophesied of “four dreadful judgments” and John prophesied how the same judgments would be delivered: the Four Horsemen.
How will God shoot “deadly and destructive arrows of famine”?
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. (Rev. 6:2 kjv)
How will God “bring the sword”?
And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. (Rev. 6:4 kjv)
How will God “send famine and wild beasts” and “plague and bloodshed”?
And power was given unto them [the Four Horsemen] over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. (Rev. 6:8 kjv)
Christ himself made reference to this time in his revelation given to Matthew:
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. (Matt. 24:7, 8 kjv)
“Sorrows” means, “a pang or throe, esp. of childbirth:—pain, sorrow, travail.”
The divine harmony of divine revelation given to us by Ezekiel, Zechariah, John, and Matthew reveals this: The “four spirits of the heavens”—who are the Four Horsemen—shall bring God’s “four dreadful judgments”: birth pains. (This is not to say that all the birth pains proceed from the Four Horsemen.) According to Christ’s revelation to Matthew, the birth pains must be hereafter and must precede Israel’s salvation. If Revelation is about what must be hereafter, then the birth pains must be in Revelation.
Are we as Christ’s church supposed to believe that it is just a coincidence that Ezekiel prophesied of the “four dreadful judgments” and Zechariah and John saw a vision of four separate chariots/horses and that John saw four judgments delivered by the Four Horsemen and that the prophecies of Ezekiel and John both speak of the end-times?
THE FOUR HORSEMEN: TRIBULATION
With the Four Horsemen on the Earth comes divine judgment, and with that judgment comes tribulation—which the church is transformed out of:
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev. 7:13, 14 kjv)
Are we as Christ’s church supposed to believe that there is no connection between the events of the first four seals (the Four Horsemen) and the events surrounding the sixth seal (the salvation of the church)?
The church is not receiving God’s judgment, but nevertheless, the church is still on the Earth and therefore is in the presence of tribulation.
WRATH
Following the salvation of the church, the birth pains shall intensify, for now shall be the time of wrath:
ISAIAH
And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. (Isa. 13:8, 9 kjv)
THE FIVE HORSEMEN
Unlike “the two witnesses” who are killed (and ascend to Heaven), there is no record that the Four Horsemen cease from their judgment in Revelation. In other words, the Four Horsemen will continue to bring forth the will of Heaven right up to the time of the descent of the Fifth Horseman: Christ.
The focal point for Christ is the Holy Land (to destroy evil and restore Heaven’s reign over Jerusalem), and the focal point of the Four Horsemen is Jerusalem—along with a fourth part of the Earth.
Characteristics found in the Four Horsemen are fully manifested by Christ himself when he descends from Heaven on his white horse.
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. . . . And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword (Rev. 19:11, 15 kjv)
Are we to assume that Christ will have a literal sword hanging out of his mouth?
[T]he sword of the Spirit. . . is the word of God. (Eph. 6:17 kjv)
If Christ makes war for righteousness sake, then what is the role of the Second Horseman?
He is making war for righteousness sake based on the truth found in the Word of God. “Power was given him [the red horse]” by Heaven to carry out the individual role of producing war founded upon righteous judgment.
War brought about by the Second Horseman (that precedes the salvation of the church) foreshadows the war that Christ himself will wage against the Antichrist (that precedes the salvation of Israel).
The Third Horseman receives “balances.”
Why?
What is the context? Judgment.
The prophet Daniel spoke of the “balances” in the context of judgment and the corresponding consequences:
Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting. . . . Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians. (Dan. 5:27, 28 kjv)
What are the “wages of sin”? For the wages of sin is death. (Rom. 6:23)
The “balances” given to the black horse is the metaphorical representation of God’s divine judgment. Judgment of man shall be upon God’s balances: what man sows is what man shall reap; what man shall receive shall be balanced against what he earned (in life).
The Fourth Horseman brings the grave (Hades).
The First Horseman, riding on a white horse, is given a “bow.” The Greek word for “bow,” toxon, finds its root in a word that means, “to produce. . . , lit. or fig.:—bear, be born, bring forth, be delivered, be in travail.”
What else is to be learned from the “white” horse? Christ and the church appeared to John riding on white horses. Why white? White is associated with holiness and righteousness—which is what Christ is: holy and righteous. The symbolism of the white horse is that he brings the standard of Heaven to Earth: holiness and righteousness.
GOD’S COVENANT
It is God’s covenant that mankind decides to be in harmony with or in rebellion against. The heart of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is salvation.
Everything that must be hereafter, as seen in Revelation, is founded upon righteousness; it is founded upon the Word of God; it is founded upon God’s covenant; it is the agreement with mankind—which the Creator is faithful to bring forth into reality.
“The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great—and for destroying those who destroy the earth.” Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. (Rev. 11:18, 19)
With regard to the Four Horsemen and where they execute judgment…
Ezekiel spoke of “Jerusalem”—which from biblical usage not only refers to the city itself but to the spiritual center of the bigger picture: Israel. Christ himself lamented over “Jerusalem” when referring to God’s chosen people (Matt. 23:37, 38).
John and Zechariah add the other pieces of the divine puzzle: John spoke of a “fourth part of the earth” and Zechariah referred to the “north country” and “south country.”
The following is taken from Nelson’s Bible dictionary: “For the Hebrews, the terms north, south, east, and west carried certain characteristics. . . . In determining direction, the Israelites faced the point where they knew the sun rose each day. Thus, the east was the front. . . . All other directions received their designations relative to the east as the front. Thus, west was the “rear,” north was on the left, and south was on the right.”
Knowing that the focal point is Jerusalem, the references of “north country” and “south country” take on meaning for us: this certainly would refer to countries that are north and south of Israel—countries in the Middle East. Interestingly, these countries are dominated by the two religions that look to Abraham, yet reject Jesus as the Messiah. A “fourth part of the earth” would be the extent of judgment delivered by the Four Horsemen.
So you are saying the Judgment of the four horsement is specifically in that 1/4 of the earth around Jeruselem? Very interesting. Thanks for answering my question.
THE ANGEL GABRIEL AND CHRIST: DANIEL’S SEVEN-YEAR PROPHECY: THE SEVENTIETH “SEVEN”
This seven-year prophecy is a seven-year covenant that Israel will sign with the Antichrist. It will not only bring peace to the Middle East, it will allow Israel to rebuild its temple and offer sacrifice. This is the agreement that the Antichrist will break after 3.5 years.
For the first 3.5 years, the followers of Moses will rebuild their temple and offer sacrifice in Jerusalem. For the next 3.5 years, they will flee from Jerusalem into mountains where God will protect his faithful remnant from the Antichrist.
Look at the revelation Christ gave to John regarding what will take place during the time of the second woe: “I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, ‘Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there’” (Rev. 11:1).
This is when Israel will sign the seven-year peace agreement with the Antichrist, and Israel will be given the green light to rebuild its temple. That’s why the angel told John to measure the temple.
What follows is the progression of thought in the revelation given to us by the angel Gabriel and Christ.
GABRIEL
After the sixty-two “sevens,” the Anointed One [Christ] will be cut off [crucified] and will have nothing.[This is when he prophetic clock stopped for Israel: the first century]. The people [the Romans] of the ruler [the Antichrist] who will come will destroy the city [Jerusalem] and the sanctuary [temple] [which the Romans did in AD 70]. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many [israelites] for one “seven” [seven years]. [THE SECOND WOE IS NOW UNDERWAY (Rev. 9:12, 13 and following).] [Once the agreement is signed, the prophetic clock for Israel will start again. With the agreement signed, the two witnesses, who are a part of the second woe, will begin their mission, and the rebuilding of the temple will commence. This will continue for 3.5 years—the time marked by Christ.] [THE THIRD WOE NOW BEGINS (Rev. 11:14, 15 and following).] In the middle of the “seven” he [the Antichrist] will put an end to sacrifice and offering [the sacrifices offered by the Israelites in their new temple will be ended]. And on a wing of the temple [which was being built during the first 3.5 years] he [the Antichrist] will set up an abomination that causes desolation [“the image in honor of the beast” (Rev. 13:14)], until the end that is decreed is poured out [vial judgments] on him [the Antichrist]. (Dan. 9:26, 27)
This seven-year prophecy precedes the second coming of Christ to Israel.
THE ABOMINATION
Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. (Rev. 13:11-15)
Where does this image get “set up”?
The temple.
Where does the Antichrist rule?
The temple.
He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thess. 2:4)
The Antichrist will seize control of, and rule from, the temple that Israel was allowed to rebuild.
While in the Holy Land, Christ prophesied of the same end-time prophecy.
CHRIST’S REVELATION TO MATTHEW
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached [which includes the 3.5 years of preaching by the two witnesses] in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end [which includes the vial judgments poured out on the Antichrist] will come. . .
THE THIRD WOE: 3.5 YEARS
So when you see standing in the holy place “the abomination that causes desolation,” spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. [This is when God will protect the “woman” (Israel) for 3.5 years.] How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. (Matt. 24:14-21)
The seventieth “seven” is a unified, seven-year prophecy that has two distinct elements: the two prophets of God (with other judgments) and the two prophets of Satan (with the vial judgments).
THE END OF THE SEVENTIETH “SEVEN”
Immediately after the distress of those days “the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.”
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matt. 24:29-31)
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dancing
Sorry mate or allan or alf this is America and you have no pull here.
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dancing
Wassup revvel?
Can't handle fielding different views and perspectives?
Are you so sold on your doctrine that Christ couldn't Come Now.
Where in the Bible is the "Return" talked about?
How many places is the word "return" used?
Get your words right man, it's the coming.
The entire Word of God including Daniel Isaiah and Thessolonians speaks of a present tense reality that can be experienced in the here and now.
Sure, put it in the future and have nothing to prove.
A thief in the night will be a surprise in the morning.
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dancing
hmmm start my own thread you say revvel?
here's a few I have...
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=9945
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=10383
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=10156
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=9792
You just might be surprised at what these people have here in this forum compared to others. Canarys in a coal mine so to speak it has been said here and from those encountering some of these members.
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CWF
revvel
I'll read your book.
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revvel
Before moving on with the Scriptures, I feel it is necessary to speak with two of our guests: dancing and sirguessalot.
dancing,
Even though you have a chronic need to rely on your disagreeable manner to interact with us, the fact remains you are here… which means you are reading the Scriptures… and that’s good.
For the sake of the truth, though, I feel I must address another one of your accusations… that I am using incorrect terminology by using the word “return.”
We are talking about Christ and the Parousia, which is defined as, “coming, return, advent, presence, being present, and arrival.”
The other Greek word translated as “coming” is Apokalupsis, which means, “appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.”
Together, Apokalupsis and Parousia provide us with the prophetic picture of what shall be; the definitions of these words are in perfect harmony with the Scriptures that speak to the subject: It is the arrival of the personal presence of Christ, returning from Heaven, which is the advent, which is his coming into the world, and how Christ’s glory shall be revealed when he appears in the clouds to transform the church and later when he rescues Israel.
revvel
sirguessalot,
What can I say?
Did I walk into one of your threads and launch a personal assault on one of your guests?
No…
Yet, you felt the liberty to attack one of my guests?
Do you honestly believe I have any interest in your opinion about anyone on this thread?
sirguessalot… You apologized: "sorry rev, this is just getting old" I accept your apology.
If you apologize to Allan and the other guests following this thread that would mean much to me.
Now… I feel it is appropriate that we return to this question:
If the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah turned out to be about the literal, personal presence of Jesus the Christ, then is it logical, or illogical, to believe that the prophecies about the second coming of the Messiah will turn out to be about the literal, personal presence of Jesus the Christ?
I first posed this question to you back on Apr 13 2006, 06:24 PM …
You responded on Apr 13 2006, 08:13 PM by saying this: "so...i hope you dont mind if i dont answer the rest of your questions ...though i still will, if you wish"
You offered us no indication that the question is unanswerable. In fact, you were prepared to answer it.
Now… a few weeks later, the question becomes unanswerable?
Now… you claim you didn’t respond to it in April because it is “too incomplete to be logical or answerable”?
Your response: Jun 16 2006, 03:24 AM "neither...and the reason i did not answer this before, is because the question is too incomplete to be logical or answerable"
I decided to run this question by an editor and a professor…
Both found no fault with the integrity of the question. The editor said the question is complete and quite answerable… and felt your response is an indication that you didn't want to answer the question. Which, coincidently, is precisely the impression you gave us in your first post: the question is complete and quite answerable… You simply chose not to answer it.
Relative to the question, I have two words for your consideration: Apokalupsis and Parousia.
There is no scriptural justification to deny the literal definitions of the words and there is no scriptural justification to deny the literal parallels to the actual prophecies given.
Apokalupsis and Parousia speak of the second part of a unified prophecy.
I am born again because I believed literally… By the grace of God, I have witnessed the fulfillment of prophecy already…
If a literal rendering of what is literally stated brought about the fulfillment of the first part of the prophecy (being filled with the Holy Spirit), then is it logical, or illogical to pursue the same path (a literal rendering of what is literally stated) regarding the second part of the prophecy (Christ's descent from Heaven)?
If you chose a different approach to the Scriptures, you can share your justification for doing so with Christ when you stand before him.
revvel
THE CELESTIAL SIGNS: MATTHEW, PETER, JOHN, ISAIAH, AND JOEL
The celestial signs that mark Christ’s arrival for the church are similar to the signs that mark Christ’s arrival for Israel—but they are not identical.
We can see these two, separate prophecies by looking at one prophet: Joel.
SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO THE CHURCH
And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved; . . .
SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO ISRAEL
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said, among the survivors whom the Lord calls. In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land. . . . Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men draw near and attack. Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, “I am strong!” Come quickly, all you nations from every side, and assemble there. Bring down your warriors [includes the church], O Lord! Let the nations be roused; let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side. Swing the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, trample the grapes, for the winepress is full and the vats overflow—so great is their wickedness! Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine. The Lord will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the Lord will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel. Then you will know that I, the Lord your God, dwell in Zion, my holy hill. Jerusalem will be holy; never again will foreigners invade her. (Joel 2:28-32; 3:1, 2, 9-17)
What is a primary difference between the celestial signs that mark Christ’s arrival for the church and Israel?
The moon.
When Christ arrives in the clouds for the church, the moon will turn “blood red.” The blood-red moon is an omen that judgment is about to befall the Earth.
When Christ returns seven years later for Israel, the “moon will be darkened.”
“Blood red” means “blood red.”
“Darkened” means “darkened.”
When Christ descends for us, the church, we will see a darkened sky but we will see the moon turn blood red. This is the revelation Christ gave to Peter and John.
SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO THE CHURCH
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth. (Rev. 6:12, 13)
In contrast, when Christ descends for Israel, those left on the Earth will see a darkened sky—but not a blood-red moon, a darkened moon. It is against this darkness of space, that those on the planet will see Christ descend from Heaven (with his armies, his saints (the church), his warriors). This is the revelation Christ gave to Matthew.
SALVATION EXCLUSIVE TO ISRAEL
Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. (Matt. 24:29)
Christ’s final revelation to John expounds upon these two prophecies: salvation exclusive to the church is marked at the sixth seal, and salvation exclusive to Israel is marked at chapter 19—when Christ descends from Heaven with us, the saints.
What are the events that will come to pass between the salvation of the church and the salvation of Israel? How much time will elapse between the two salvations?
Christ told us… in the revelation he gave to Matthew and John.
What are the events that precede the salvation of Israel and how much time is marked?
CHRIST’S REVELATION TO MATTHEW
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.” (Matt. 24:15-23)
In the midst of Christ’s revelation to Matthew, Christ referenced Daniel.
Why did Christ quote Daniel?
What are we to learn from this?
What Christ referenced from Daniel is in bold:
He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one “seven” [seven years]. In the middle of the “seven” he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him [the Antichrist]. (Dan. 9:27)
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [Daniel’s people: Israel]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people [israel] shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan. 12:1 KJV)
Why did Christ quote Daniel in the context of Israel’s salvation?
The “abomination that causes desolation” is spoken of in the context of the seven-year prophecy: “one seven.” It is the final seven years of prophecy for Daniel’s people, known also as the seventieth “seven.”
CHRIST’S REVELATION TO JOHN
Did Christ identify a seven-year prophecy in the revelation he gave to John?
Yes.
Does this seven-year prophecy occur during the seventh seal?
Yes.
Where in Revelation did Christ mark the start of the seven-year prophecy?
And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. (Rev. 11:3-7)
What happens at the midpoint of the seven-year prophecy?
Christ told us: the Antichrist shall kill God’s prophets. It is then that Antichrist “is given a [big] mouth”:
The beast [the Antichrist] was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. . . . Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. (Rev. 13:5, 11)
John’s seven-year prophecy that precedes Israel’s salvation has yet to be fulfilled.
Daniel’s seven-year prophecy that precedes Israel’s salvation has yet to be fulfilled.
Are we as Christ’s church supposed to believe that it is just a coincidence that Christ referenced Daniel’s seven-year prophecy and spoke of a seven-year prophecy in Revelation, and that it is just a coincidence that Daniel’s prophecy speaks of events that shall lead up to Israel’s salvation and the destruction of the Antichrist, and John’s prophecy speaks of events that shall lead up to Israel’s salvation and the destruction of the Antichrist?
Why else would Christ mark a seven-year prophecy between the salvation of the church and the salvation of Israel, unless there is a seven-year prophecy between the salvation of the church and the salvation of Israel?
THE HARMONY BETWEEN THE PROPHETS AND APOSTLES
Daniel and John are in agreement about the seven-year prophecy—and no one in the Bible disagrees with them.
Joel, Peter, and John prophesied of the moon turning blood red when the church is saved, and Joel and Matthew prophesied of the moon turning dark when Israel is saved—and no one in Bible disagrees with them.
Next: The First Four Seals: The Four Horsemen.
God bless.
revvel
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dancing
Condescending attitudes and inflamatory words don't impress me any.
Nor does biblical research. Though it has it's place.
Toungues of angels do.
You still have not answered the questions revvel.
Which is fine with me.
I didn't ask any that I didn't know the answer to.
At least in part.
It's obvious that you are not interested in other perspectives.
Cause you keep trying to fit everything into this doctrinal wall.
A wall of words that you are putting together.
Been there, done that-not returning.
So use the word return if you wish. It doesn't change what happens anyway.
You have seen prophecys fulfilled. Yeah so, A lot of people claim this.
Accusations as you put it...lol....
I ain't worried none about what you preach.
It is a good example of how people think. And profitable to a certain degree.
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Sunesis
Great post Revvel, please continue, many are reading...
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allan w.
Of course, you can get onto his site and read it all you want !!
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dmiller
After all this -- I'm still having a problem with the *signless return*.
Methinks I need to print this all out, and take some vacation time to look it over.
Something doesn't sit right here.
(Just my IMO -- don't you know)
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revvel
THE HORSEMEN OF REVELATION
The Four Horsemen—released with the opening of the first four seals—precede the descent of Christ in the clouds to save the church (the sixth seal).
Who are Four Horsemen?
Just as the Book of Revelation expounds upon the relative nature of what the prophets and apostles prophesied about “the day of the Lord,” the prophets and apostles help us to understand the prophecies found in Revelation. In the case of this post, it is the prophet Zechariah who enables us to make a definitive statement about the Four Horsemen—and about the two witnesses of Revelation 11.
Who is the Fifth Horseman? Christ.
INTRODUCTION
Just as John the Baptist was of divine origin sent to fulfill a divine purpose before the first coming of Christ to Israel…
And just as the two witnesses are of divine origin sent to fulfill a divine purpose before the second coming of Christ to Israel…
The Four Horsemen are of divine origin sent to fulfill a divine purpose before the arrival of Christ to save the church.
THE FIRST COMING OF THE MESSIAH: JOHN THE BAPTIST
God sent John the Baptist to precede the Messiah’s first coming to Israel.
What was his role in preparing the way for the Messiah?
A voice of one [John] calling in the desert, “Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.” (Matt. 3:3)
I [John] baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. (Matt. 3:11)
I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel. (John 1:31)
Just as God prepared the world for the first coming of the Messiah to Israel, God shall prepare the world for the second coming of the Messiah to Israel. Different times demand different roles for those sent by God.
Whereas divine blessing was upon the Earth via John the Baptist to prepare the way for the salvation of all bloodlines, divine judgment shall be upon the Earth via the two witnesses and the Four Horsemen to prepare the way for the salvation of Israel and the salvation of the church, respectively.
THE TWO WITNESSES
God shall send two witnesses to precede the Messiah’s second coming to Israel.
What is their role in preparing the way for the Messiah?
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. (Rev. 11:3-6 kjv)
The two witnesses shall speak the Word of God and bring God’s righteous judgment upon the unrighteous.
Who are the two witnesses?
God told us, through an angel who spoke to Zechariah:
And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep, And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. . . . Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. (Zech. 4:1-3, 11-14 kjv)
The two witnesses “are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
THE FOUR HORSEMEN
The vision that follows sets the stage for those things that must be hereafter; it is a vision that immediately precedes the release of the Four Horsemen.
And I [John] saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. (Rev. 5:1-5 kjv)
Christ’s vision to John is drawing our attention to where? Heaven.
It is the King of Kings who opens the seals in Heaven, and with the opening of the first four seals, the Four Horsemen are released.
If the Four Horsemen are released prior to the salvation of the church (the sixth seal), then are they released during the time of wrath, or grace? Grace.
Wrath doesn’t begin until after the church is gathered. Therefore, the Four Horsemen shall fulfill their role… simultaneous to us fulfilling our individual roles as members of the body of Christ… during the age of grace.
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts [living creatures] saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast [living creature] say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: to and power was given him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast [living creature] say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast [living creature] say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell [Greek: Hades: the grave] followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. (Rev. 6:1-8 kjv)
Who are the Four Horsemen?
There is no need to project our imagination onto the Scriptures and come up with an interpretation based on our own modern times and culture, for God already gave us the correct answer 2500 years ago by way of the same prophet who spoke to us about the “two anointed ones”: Zechariah.
And I [Zechariah] turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass. In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses. Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.
The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country. And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth. Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country. (Zech. 6:1-8)
Who are the Four Horsemen? “The four spirits of the heavens.”
The parallels between the two witnesses and the Four Horsemen are unmistakable: they bring righteous judgment to the Earth.
Are we as Christ’s church supposed to believe that it is just a coincidence that Zechariah and John both saw a vision of the “two olive trees” (the “two anointed ones”/the “two witnesses”), and that it is just a coincidence that the same prophet, Zechariah, saw a vision of “the four spirits of the heavens” that appeared as four separate chariots with horses and John saw a vision of four separate horses?
What are we to learn from the visions given to Zechariah and John?
The angel said to Zechariah, “Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.” The word “quieted” means to “give comfort” and “(cause to…) rest.”
If the horsemen bring comfort to an angel of God, and bring judgment to the unrighteous, then it is evident that the horsemen bring comfort to the righteous and discomfort to the unrighteous.
THE FIFTH HORSEMAN: CHRIST: THE SECOND COMING TO ISRAEL
The divine judgment brought to Earth by the Four Horsemen foreshadows the divine judgment brought to Earth by the Fifth Horseman: Christ.
I [John] saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. [Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints (Rev. 19:8).] Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, “so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great.”
Then I saw the beast [the Antichrist] and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. (Rev. 19:11–21)
See, the Lord is coming with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind; he will bring down his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. (Isa. 66:15)
This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. (2 Thess. 1:7-10)
Whereas the Four Horsemen mark the beginning of the end of all that has been prophesied about the church and Israel, the Messiah riding on his white horse will descend to Earth along with us, the church, following on white horses, and Christ will fulfill the promises found in the covenant with Israel—seven years after the seventh seal opens.
It is the fulfillment of Gabriel’s revelation to Daniel, when the Antichrist shall be destroyed:
He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many for one “seven” [seven years]. In the middle of the “seven” he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him [the Antichrist]. (Dan. 9:27)
The “end that is decreed” shall be “poured out” on the Antichrist at the end of the seven-year prophecy—which commences exactly where Christ marked it: “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days (3.5 years).” In the middle of this seven-year prophecy, the Antichrist will put an end to sacrifice and offering and will kill the prophets, and then the Antichrist shall reign for 3.5 years after committing murder—only to see his reign end by way of the Fifth Horseman: Christ.
Next: The Significance of the Four Horsemen.
God bless.
revvel
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dancing
what are the churches or church?
7 is used many times, are they the same?
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revvel
dancing,
Let me ask that you quote the Scriptures that you are referring to in your question... so I am sure I understand the context of your thoughts.
revvel
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dancing
KJV: Re 1:4
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
KJV: Re 1:11
11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
KJV: Re 1:12
12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
KJV: Re 1:13
13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
KJV: Re 1:16
16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
KJV: Re 1:20
20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
KJV: Re 2:1
Chapter 2
1Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
KJV: Re 3:1
Chapter 3
1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
KJV: Re 4:5
5And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
KJV: Re 5:1
Chapter 5
1And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
KJV: Re 5:5
5And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
KJV: Re 5:6
6And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
KJV: Re 8:2
2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
KJV: Re 8:6
6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
KJV: Re 10:3
3And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
KJV: Re 10:4
4And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
KJV: Re 11:13
13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
KJV: Re 12:3
3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
KJV: Re 13:1
Chapter 13
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
KJV: Re 15:1
Chapter 15
1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
KJV: Re 15:6
6And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
KJV: Re 15:7
7And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
KJV: Re 15:8
8And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
KJV: Re 16:1
Chapter 16
1And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
KJV: Re 17:1
Chapter 17
1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
KJV: Re 17:3
3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
KJV: Re 17:7
7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
KJV: Re 17:9
9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
KJV: Re 17:10
10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
KJV: Re 17:11
11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV: Re 21:9
9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.
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revvel
Hello dancing,
You asked a good question: Are the seven churches of Revelation… the church of God?
In the revelation that Christ gave to his apostles, there is a repeating pattern in the introductory sentences:
1. The writer introduces himself.
2. The writer addresses the revelation.
3. The writer specifically identifies characteristics that can only be true for the church of God—those who embraced Jesus as their Lord and have received salvation.
4. The writer speaks of the future salvation of the church when Christ shall be revealed in the clouds.
Take a look at the repeating pattern found in the revelation given to John, Paul, and Peter.
CHRIST’S REVELATION TO JOHN
John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia. . . . To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his [Christ’s] blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. LOOK, HE [CHRIST] IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, AND EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM, EVEN THOSE WHO PIERCED HIM; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen. (Rev. 1:4, 6, 7)
Who are those who have been freed from their sins by Christ’s “blood”?
For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. (1 Peter 1:18, 19)
Who are those who are now within the “kingdom”?
For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. (Col. 1:13, 14)
To which group of people is John writing?
“The Jews. . . the Gentiles. . . [or] the church of God” (1 Cor. 10:32 kjv). The church of God…
Those who are in the church have been freed from their sins and are in the kingdom of Christ—and each member of the body of Christ is a priest. How?
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. (Rom. 12:1)
We in the church do not offer dead sacrifices as the priests did in the times of the Old Covenant, but rather, with the New Covenant, we offer our lives as living sacrifices. Herein, everyone in the body of Christ is his or her own priest before the great high priest: Christ.
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. (Heb. 4:14)
CHRIST’S REVELATION TO PAUL
Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours. Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
I always thank God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus. For in him you have been enriched in every way—in all your speaking and in all your knowledge—because our testimony about Christ was confirmed in you. THEREFORE YOU DO NOT LACK ANY SPIRITUAL GIFT AS YOU EAGERLY WAIT FOR OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST TO BE REVEALED. HE WILL KEEP YOU STRONG TO THE END, SO THAT YOU WILL BE BLAMELESS ON THE DAY OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. (1 Cor. 1:1-8)
Who are those sanctified in Christ Jesus?
Those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus are the same people who are freed from their sins by the blood of Lamb: the church of God.
There is one, universal church (of God) which is composed of many churches (assemblies). Both John and Paul addressed their correspondence to the churches (assemblies) within the church of God. Whereas Paul wrote to seven churches via individual letters, John wrote to seven churches via a book.
CHRIST’S REVELATION TO PETER
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth INTO A LIVING HOPE THROUGH THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE DEAD, AND INTO AN INHERITANCE THAT CAN NEVER PERISH, SPOIL OR FADE—KEPT IN HEAVEN FOR YOU, WHO THROUGH FAITH ARE SHIELDED BY GOD’S POWER UNTIL THE COMING OF THE SALVATION THAT IS READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME. (1 Peter 1:1-5)
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. (1 Peter 2:9, 10)
Who are “God’s elect” “chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood”?
Who are those who have received the “new birth”?
Who are “now” “the people of God”?
Who has “now. . . received mercy”?
Who “are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God”?
Who has a “living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead”?
Us. The church of God…
John, Paul, and Peter wrote to us, the church of God.
How can any theologian, any minister, any Christian successfully overturn or explain away the truth about us… given to us… by Christ’s apostles?
THE NUMBER SEVEN
As we know, throughout Revelation, John consistently stops at the number seven.
Why?
Revelation is the final prophetic picture given to us. It marks the fulfillment of prophecies given to us by the prophets and apostles.
Why else would John stop at "seven" unless “seven” marked the divine apex in the fulfillment of divine will and thought?
What follows is taken from E.W. Bullinger’s Companion Bible: “Seven. Denotes spiritual perfection. It is the number or hall-mark of the Holy Spirit’s work.”
God bless.
revvel
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THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE FOUR HORSEMEN: THE BIRTH PAINS
There is a progression of thought in the Bible: the New Testament apostles expound upon prophecies spoken by the Old Testament prophets. The prophecy of the Four Horsemen is not an exception.
The vision given to John of the Four Horsemen was first given to Zechariah (6): the “four spirits of the heavens.” The role of the “four spirits of the heavens” in the end times was first given to Ezekiel; the “four spirits” shall bring the “four dreadful judgments” to the Earth.
The “four spirits of the heavens”—the Four Horsemen—are agents of Heaven’s will who bring judgment. With judgment comes tribulation upon the Earth. In the case of the end-times judgment, that tribulation represents “birth pains.”
Just what exactly do birth pains precede?
The birth pains precede the “birth” of the transformed church off the Earth (the sixth seal), and the “rebirth” of Israel after the second coming of Christ to Israel (the seventh seal).
According to Christ’s revelation to John, tribulation from Heaven upon the Earth has a distinct beginning (when the first seal opens), and continues through the seventh seal—intensifying right up to when Israel is saved. Christ is revealing this: birth pains not only precede the salvation of Israel, they precede the salvation of the church. The release of the Four Horsemen brings the promise of the fulfillment of all that has been written about the church and Israel.
THE FOUR HORSEMEN: JOHN AND EZEKIEL
JOHN
And power was given unto them [the Four Horsemen] over the fourth part of the earth, TO KILL WITH SWORD, AND WITH HUNGER, AND WITH DEATH, AND WITH THE BEASTS OF THE EARTH. (Rev. 6:8 kjv)
EZEKIEL
For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my FOUR DREADFUL JUDGMENTS—SWORD AND FAMINE AND WILD BEASTS AND PLAGUE—to kill its men and their animals! Yet there will be some survivors—sons and daughters who will be brought out of it. They will come to you, and when you see their conduct and their actions, you will be consoled regarding the disaster I have brought upon Jerusalem—every disaster I have brought upon it. You will be consoled when you see their conduct and their actions, for you will know that I have done nothing in it without cause, declares the Sovereign Lord. (Ezek. 14:21-23)
Divine judgment is the final stage of a just and patient God who seeks for all to be saved. When divine redemption is beyond the reach of man’s mind because of man’s depravity, then judgment must follow—for God is a righteous and just God and that requires judgment. Divine judgment is not only upon the unrighteous Gentiles, but as seen throughout the Old Testament, divine judgment is upon the unrighteous Israelites.
Ezekiel prophesied of judgment upon Jerusalem that shall come to pass in the end times.
EZEKIEL
This is what the Sovereign Lord says: This is Jerusalem, which I have set in the center of the nations, with countries all around her. Yet in her wickedness she has rebelled against my laws and decrees more than the nations and countries around her. She has rejected my laws and has not followed my decrees. Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: You have been more unruly than the nations around you and have not followed my decrees or kept my laws. You have not even conformed to the standards of the nations around you. Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I myself am against you, Jerusalem, and I will inflict punishment on you in the sight of the nations. Because of all your detestable idols, I WILL DO TO YOU WHAT I HAVE NEVER DONE BEFORE AND WILL NEVER DO AGAIN. (Ezek. 5:5-9)
MATTHEW
FOR THEN THERE WILL BE GREAT DISTRESS, UNEQUALED FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD UNTIL NOW—AND NEVER TO BE EQUALED AGAIN. (Matt. 24:21)
EZEKIEL
WHEN I SHOOT AT YOU WITH MY DEADLY AND DESTRUCTIVE ARROWS OF FAMINE, I will shoot to destroy you. I will bring more and more famine upon you and cut off your supply of food. I WILL SEND FAMINE AND WILD BEASTS against you, and they will leave you childless. PLAGUE AND BLOODSHED will sweep through you, and I WILL BRING THE SWORD AGAINST YOU. I the Lord have spoken. (Ezek. 5:16, 17)
Ezekiel prophesied of “four dreadful judgments” and John prophesied how the same judgments would be delivered: the Four Horsemen.
How will God shoot “deadly and destructive arrows of famine”?
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. (Rev. 6:2 kjv)
How will God “bring the sword”?
And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. (Rev. 6:4 kjv)
How will God “send famine and wild beasts” and “plague and bloodshed”?
And power was given unto them [the Four Horsemen] over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. (Rev. 6:8 kjv)
Christ himself made reference to this time in his revelation given to Matthew:
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. (Matt. 24:7, 8 kjv)
“Sorrows” means, “a pang or throe, esp. of childbirth:—pain, sorrow, travail.”
The divine harmony of divine revelation given to us by Ezekiel, Zechariah, John, and Matthew reveals this: The “four spirits of the heavens”—who are the Four Horsemen—shall bring God’s “four dreadful judgments”: birth pains. (This is not to say that all the birth pains proceed from the Four Horsemen.) According to Christ’s revelation to Matthew, the birth pains must be hereafter and must precede Israel’s salvation. If Revelation is about what must be hereafter, then the birth pains must be in Revelation.
Are we as Christ’s church supposed to believe that it is just a coincidence that Ezekiel prophesied of the “four dreadful judgments” and Zechariah and John saw a vision of four separate chariots/horses and that John saw four judgments delivered by the Four Horsemen and that the prophecies of Ezekiel and John both speak of the end-times?
THE FOUR HORSEMEN: TRIBULATION
With the Four Horsemen on the Earth comes divine judgment, and with that judgment comes tribulation—which the church is transformed out of:
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev. 7:13, 14 kjv)
Are we as Christ’s church supposed to believe that there is no connection between the events of the first four seals (the Four Horsemen) and the events surrounding the sixth seal (the salvation of the church)?
The church is not receiving God’s judgment, but nevertheless, the church is still on the Earth and therefore is in the presence of tribulation.
WRATH
Following the salvation of the church, the birth pains shall intensify, for now shall be the time of wrath:
ISAIAH
And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. (Isa. 13:8, 9 kjv)
THE FIVE HORSEMEN
Unlike “the two witnesses” who are killed (and ascend to Heaven), there is no record that the Four Horsemen cease from their judgment in Revelation. In other words, the Four Horsemen will continue to bring forth the will of Heaven right up to the time of the descent of the Fifth Horseman: Christ.
The focal point for Christ is the Holy Land (to destroy evil and restore Heaven’s reign over Jerusalem), and the focal point of the Four Horsemen is Jerusalem—along with a fourth part of the Earth.
Characteristics found in the Four Horsemen are fully manifested by Christ himself when he descends from Heaven on his white horse.
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. . . . And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword (Rev. 19:11, 15 kjv)
Are we to assume that Christ will have a literal sword hanging out of his mouth?
[T]he sword of the Spirit. . . is the word of God. (Eph. 6:17 kjv)
If Christ makes war for righteousness sake, then what is the role of the Second Horseman?
He is making war for righteousness sake based on the truth found in the Word of God. “Power was given him [the red horse]” by Heaven to carry out the individual role of producing war founded upon righteous judgment.
War brought about by the Second Horseman (that precedes the salvation of the church) foreshadows the war that Christ himself will wage against the Antichrist (that precedes the salvation of Israel).
The Third Horseman receives “balances.”
Why?
What is the context? Judgment.
The prophet Daniel spoke of the “balances” in the context of judgment and the corresponding consequences:
Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting. . . . Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians. (Dan. 5:27, 28 kjv)
What are the “wages of sin”? For the wages of sin is death. (Rom. 6:23)
The “balances” given to the black horse is the metaphorical representation of God’s divine judgment. Judgment of man shall be upon God’s balances: what man sows is what man shall reap; what man shall receive shall be balanced against what he earned (in life).
The Fourth Horseman brings the grave (Hades).
The First Horseman, riding on a white horse, is given a “bow.” The Greek word for “bow,” toxon, finds its root in a word that means, “to produce. . . , lit. or fig.:—bear, be born, bring forth, be delivered, be in travail.”
What else is to be learned from the “white” horse? Christ and the church appeared to John riding on white horses. Why white? White is associated with holiness and righteousness—which is what Christ is: holy and righteous. The symbolism of the white horse is that he brings the standard of Heaven to Earth: holiness and righteousness.
GOD’S COVENANT
It is God’s covenant that mankind decides to be in harmony with or in rebellion against. The heart of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is salvation.
Everything that must be hereafter, as seen in Revelation, is founded upon righteousness; it is founded upon the Word of God; it is founded upon God’s covenant; it is the agreement with mankind—which the Creator is faithful to bring forth into reality.
“The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great—and for destroying those who destroy the earth.” Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. (Rev. 11:18, 19)
God bless.
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Sunesis
Great food for thought Revel - that answers my question about 4 horsemen.
I notice, the 4 horsemen affect only 1/4 of the world - i.e., that around Jeruselem?
I have other questions, I'llthink of them and ask you later.
Thanks.
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Hello Sunesis,
Thank you for your thoughts.
With regard to the Four Horsemen and where they execute judgment…
Ezekiel spoke of “Jerusalem”—which from biblical usage not only refers to the city itself but to the spiritual center of the bigger picture: Israel. Christ himself lamented over “Jerusalem” when referring to God’s chosen people (Matt. 23:37, 38).
John and Zechariah add the other pieces of the divine puzzle: John spoke of a “fourth part of the earth” and Zechariah referred to the “north country” and “south country.”
The following is taken from Nelson’s Bible dictionary: “For the Hebrews, the terms north, south, east, and west carried certain characteristics. . . . In determining direction, the Israelites faced the point where they knew the sun rose each day. Thus, the east was the front. . . . All other directions received their designations relative to the east as the front. Thus, west was the “rear,” north was on the left, and south was on the right.”
Knowing that the focal point is Jerusalem, the references of “north country” and “south country” take on meaning for us: this certainly would refer to countries that are north and south of Israel—countries in the Middle East. Interestingly, these countries are dominated by the two religions that look to Abraham, yet reject Jesus as the Messiah. A “fourth part of the earth” would be the extent of judgment delivered by the Four Horsemen.
God bless,
revvel
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Sunesis
So you are saying the Judgment of the four horsement is specifically in that 1/4 of the earth around Jeruselem? Very interesting. Thanks for answering my question.
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THE ANGEL GABRIEL AND CHRIST: DANIEL’S SEVEN-YEAR PROPHECY: THE SEVENTIETH “SEVEN”
This seven-year prophecy is a seven-year covenant that Israel will sign with the Antichrist. It will not only bring peace to the Middle East, it will allow Israel to rebuild its temple and offer sacrifice. This is the agreement that the Antichrist will break after 3.5 years.
For the first 3.5 years, the followers of Moses will rebuild their temple and offer sacrifice in Jerusalem. For the next 3.5 years, they will flee from Jerusalem into mountains where God will protect his faithful remnant from the Antichrist.
Look at the revelation Christ gave to John regarding what will take place during the time of the second woe: “I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, ‘Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there’” (Rev. 11:1).
This is when Israel will sign the seven-year peace agreement with the Antichrist, and Israel will be given the green light to rebuild its temple. That’s why the angel told John to measure the temple.
What follows is the progression of thought in the revelation given to us by the angel Gabriel and Christ.
GABRIEL
After the sixty-two “sevens,” the Anointed One [Christ] will be cut off [crucified] and will have nothing.[This is when he prophetic clock stopped for Israel: the first century]. The people [the Romans] of the ruler [the Antichrist] who will come will destroy the city [Jerusalem] and the sanctuary [temple] [which the Romans did in AD 70]. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
He [the Antichrist] will confirm a covenant with many [israelites] for one “seven” [seven years]. [THE SECOND WOE IS NOW UNDERWAY (Rev. 9:12, 13 and following).] [Once the agreement is signed, the prophetic clock for Israel will start again. With the agreement signed, the two witnesses, who are a part of the second woe, will begin their mission, and the rebuilding of the temple will commence. This will continue for 3.5 years—the time marked by Christ.] [THE THIRD WOE NOW BEGINS (Rev. 11:14, 15 and following).] In the middle of the “seven” he [the Antichrist] will put an end to sacrifice and offering [the sacrifices offered by the Israelites in their new temple will be ended]. And on a wing of the temple [which was being built during the first 3.5 years] he [the Antichrist] will set up an abomination that causes desolation [“the image in honor of the beast” (Rev. 13:14)], until the end that is decreed is poured out [vial judgments] on him [the Antichrist]. (Dan. 9:26, 27)
This seven-year prophecy precedes the second coming of Christ to Israel.
THE ABOMINATION
Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. (Rev. 13:11-15)
Where does this image get “set up”?
The temple.
Where does the Antichrist rule?
The temple.
He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thess. 2:4)
The Antichrist will seize control of, and rule from, the temple that Israel was allowed to rebuild.
While in the Holy Land, Christ prophesied of the same end-time prophecy.
CHRIST’S REVELATION TO MATTHEW
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached [which includes the 3.5 years of preaching by the two witnesses] in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end [which includes the vial judgments poured out on the Antichrist] will come. . .
THE THIRD WOE: 3.5 YEARS
So when you see standing in the holy place “the abomination that causes desolation,” spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. [This is when God will protect the “woman” (Israel) for 3.5 years.] How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. (Matt. 24:14-21)
The seventieth “seven” is a unified, seven-year prophecy that has two distinct elements: the two prophets of God (with other judgments) and the two prophets of Satan (with the vial judgments).
THE END OF THE SEVENTIETH “SEVEN”
Immediately after the distress of those days “the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.”
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matt. 24:29-31)
God bless.
revvel
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