Interpretation of the scriptrue is the domain of God by means of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise it's just a bunch of smarty-pants, saved or not, who apply the magic decoder algorithms and BLAMO, out comes some "rightly-divided" truth.
That Way myth, the "rightly-divided" word is itself a myth and a misinterpretation of that very scripture. It says "rightly-dividing", doesn't it? It's an ongoing daily adventure in partnership with the Holy Spirit of applying it to our lives' situations.
I figure that the "keys," in the verse, context, & previous usage are how the Word interprets itself.
How old school, I know.
But hold on - that's how all words interpret themselves. Otherwise no one would have any idea what anyone else is saying.
As a matter of fact, that's how all life interprets itself to us if you broaden the terminology - everything we experience interprets itself as we place the experience in its context in the light of other experiences we've had. That's how we come to know what a chair is - a rather complex learning process. Otherwise, everything would be a confusing 3-diminsional color collage - except maybe your mother's eyes and the milk that comes out of her tit.
So why should it seem odd that God's Word interprets itself that way?
But God's Word, being God's words, does it better (go figure). His words are purified in a furnace of fire (now THAT might be worth thinking about - what is the furnace of fire that purifies God's Word?
But that's a tangent. Point is the keys of intgerpretation are logically extrapolated from the idea that life has some kind of coherency to it, that things about us exist in some kind of relationship with themselves - that all is not chaos, that there is some kind of integrity to our experiences. What follows that assumption IS critical thinking. Everyone uses it - the keys - to make sense of life. It works better with the bible because the Word of God has integrity (and the bible is generally closer to the Word of God than what Joe on the street says).
But even if the proposition that the Word of God is purified far beyond man's words to the point where we can say even that it is perfect is accepted, and even if we also accept that the keys are perfect, that doesn't mean that we can understand the Word merely by utilizing the keys.
Why not? Because words are symbols; they are not the real thing. The word "chair" is not the chair. It can only be understood in conjunction with some life experience with chairs or things like chairs. In the end, the chair is the chair whether or not we call it that or write about it. We understand it to be so when we have experience with the chair, and we know it is a chair when someone calls it that. We have seen it to so and compared it to the myriad of other things we have come to know in the physical realm. Someone calls it a chair and we compare our experience with it with the other things we have come to know. Comparing physical things with physical, we have figured out what it is.
Likewise with the spiritual. The words of God talk of spiritual things. If we experience things on the spiritual plane, we can understand the words spoken about spiritual things as we compare the words about spiritual things with the spiritual things we have known. We're comparing spiritual thins with spiritual things.
So spiritual things are spiritually discerned, like physical things are physically discerned.
That doesn't mean we can expect to ignore the context in which things of the Word are said (remember in the context is a key) and understand anything spoken spiritually as God gives us revelation in a vacuum. It means the opposite. It means that we can only understand things spiritually as we view them in their context - both in the speaking (in the Word) and in our experience of spiritual things, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
That's how the Word inteprets itself - at least that 's how I see it. I don't check my brain at the door to spiritual world. But without the spirit, the brain is useless when it comes to understanding spiritual things. They work together - that's the integrity of the Word interpreting itself in our lives.
Interpretation of the scriptrue is the domain of God by means of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise it's just a bunch of smarty-pants, saved or not, who apply the magic decoder algorithms and BLAMO, out comes some "rightly-divided" truth.
That Way myth, the "rightly-divided" word is itself a myth and a misinterpretation of that very scripture. It says "rightly-dividing", doesn't it? It's an ongoing daily adventure in partnership with the Holy Spirit of applying it to our lives' situations.
Great post TheEvan
Tom, you make some good points. Problem is the keys were elevated above the Bible itself. Which put the Word of God in a box so to speak. If it didn't "fit" with the keys then it was discarded.
I think the Word of God will interpret itself to the reader by the holy spirit itself, when the reader is ready to hear it. A spiritual awakening of revelation as to what the spirit is saying to you personally. And that will not contradict what has been learned before but rather build upon the good that lives in the heart which is where the Spirit, the Comforter, Christ is.
It's not the words on the pages that will give life but the word believed in the heart that gives life. Then you have life...the word of life-living breathing..powerful words. And there are no keys that will unlock this word of life, it will only come from God himself. This is how the word of life is so well protected from fools.
1 John 5:6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
This heaven and earth is what longs to sprout from the seed within.
The witness of God is Greater then any keys that men have developed.
The word rthat is translated "given by inspiration of God", theopneustos does contain the elements "Theo" (God) "pneustos", which blueletterbible.com says is a dervative of pneō, which literally] means breath or wind.
That doesn't mean that the best way to translate something is by taking apart the word and translating each segment literally. Many words pick a figurative meaning derived from the literal root.
Even in English the word "inspiration" literally means to breath in, but the word generally isn't used that way.
10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Looking at the content of the context it seems to be talking about the present tense and not the actual written scriptures. But rather Timothy's understanding of them- "from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures" -he has known the scriptures. Not many could say this in my opinion.
"which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus"
Present tense, therefore I think it is "breathing" rather then breathed-past tense.
That is if one wants to say it means God-breathed.
And it seems to me that there is a lot more to it then what is seen in black and white but what was actually happening in their lives.
16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Here again I believe this is in the present tense of the ones talking to each other.
Getting an understanding of what these people were experiencing and living would be helpful in understanding the points being made and the truths discussed. These are letters.
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TheEvan
Interpretation of the scriptrue is the domain of God by means of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise it's just a bunch of smarty-pants, saved or not, who apply the magic decoder algorithms and BLAMO, out comes some "rightly-divided" truth.
That Way myth, the "rightly-divided" word is itself a myth and a misinterpretation of that very scripture. It says "rightly-dividing", doesn't it? It's an ongoing daily adventure in partnership with the Holy Spirit of applying it to our lives' situations.
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bliss
This verse in 2Peter was the beginning of my leaving TWI.
It was this time last year, I just figured this verse to REALLY mean the origin of the Word, and that it is NOT about US!
Here I was trying to sit through a Region coordintors fellowship, and he bodly taught this verse. (wrongly)
What vigor and fervor he had, "YOU DO NOT INTERPRET THIS WORD"
Then the OXYMORON begins, he's teaching "keys to the Word's interpretation", "the context"!
HELLO? MCFLY?
Did anyone catch this besides moi?
Sad to say, only I was flaming out of my pants and ears and couldn't wait to get out of there!
Evan , so glad I am letting the holy spirit teach me, what a weight off my shoulders. Love that, yes, constant rightly divid ING.
fabulous.
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Tom
I figure that the "keys," in the verse, context, & previous usage are how the Word interprets itself.
How old school, I know.
But hold on - that's how all words interpret themselves. Otherwise no one would have any idea what anyone else is saying.
As a matter of fact, that's how all life interprets itself to us if you broaden the terminology - everything we experience interprets itself as we place the experience in its context in the light of other experiences we've had. That's how we come to know what a chair is - a rather complex learning process. Otherwise, everything would be a confusing 3-diminsional color collage - except maybe your mother's eyes and the milk that comes out of her tit.
So why should it seem odd that God's Word interprets itself that way?
But God's Word, being God's words, does it better (go figure). His words are purified in a furnace of fire (now THAT might be worth thinking about - what is the furnace of fire that purifies God's Word?
But that's a tangent. Point is the keys of intgerpretation are logically extrapolated from the idea that life has some kind of coherency to it, that things about us exist in some kind of relationship with themselves - that all is not chaos, that there is some kind of integrity to our experiences. What follows that assumption IS critical thinking. Everyone uses it - the keys - to make sense of life. It works better with the bible because the Word of God has integrity (and the bible is generally closer to the Word of God than what Joe on the street says).
But even if the proposition that the Word of God is purified far beyond man's words to the point where we can say even that it is perfect is accepted, and even if we also accept that the keys are perfect, that doesn't mean that we can understand the Word merely by utilizing the keys.
Why not? Because words are symbols; they are not the real thing. The word "chair" is not the chair. It can only be understood in conjunction with some life experience with chairs or things like chairs. In the end, the chair is the chair whether or not we call it that or write about it. We understand it to be so when we have experience with the chair, and we know it is a chair when someone calls it that. We have seen it to so and compared it to the myriad of other things we have come to know in the physical realm. Someone calls it a chair and we compare our experience with it with the other things we have come to know. Comparing physical things with physical, we have figured out what it is.
Likewise with the spiritual. The words of God talk of spiritual things. If we experience things on the spiritual plane, we can understand the words spoken about spiritual things as we compare the words about spiritual things with the spiritual things we have known. We're comparing spiritual thins with spiritual things.
So spiritual things are spiritually discerned, like physical things are physically discerned.
That doesn't mean we can expect to ignore the context in which things of the Word are said (remember in the context is a key) and understand anything spoken spiritually as God gives us revelation in a vacuum. It means the opposite. It means that we can only understand things spiritually as we view them in their context - both in the speaking (in the Word) and in our experience of spiritual things, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
That's how the Word inteprets itself - at least that 's how I see it. I don't check my brain at the door to spiritual world. But without the spirit, the brain is useless when it comes to understanding spiritual things. They work together - that's the integrity of the Word interpreting itself in our lives.
Growing up into the Word,
Tom
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CM
Great post TheEvan
Tom, you make some good points. Problem is the keys were elevated above the Bible itself. Which put the Word of God in a box so to speak. If it didn't "fit" with the keys then it was discarded.
I think the Word of God will interpret itself to the reader by the holy spirit itself, when the reader is ready to hear it. A spiritual awakening of revelation as to what the spirit is saying to you personally. And that will not contradict what has been learned before but rather build upon the good that lives in the heart which is where the Spirit, the Comforter, Christ is.
It's not the words on the pages that will give life but the word believed in the heart that gives life. Then you have life...the word of life-living breathing..powerful words. And there are no keys that will unlock this word of life, it will only come from God himself. This is how the word of life is so well protected from fools.
1 John 5:6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
This heaven and earth is what longs to sprout from the seed within.
The witness of God is Greater then any keys that men have developed.
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CM
"given by inspiritation of God"
would be better translated God breathing
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Oakspear
The word rthat is translated "given by inspiration of God", theopneustos does contain the elements "Theo" (God) "pneustos", which blueletterbible.com says is a dervative of pneō, which literally] means breath or wind.
That doesn't mean that the best way to translate something is by taking apart the word and translating each segment literally. Many words pick a figurative meaning derived from the literal root.
Even in English the word "inspiration" literally means to breath in, but the word generally isn't used that way.
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CM
Looking at the content of the context it seems to be talking about the present tense and not the actual written scriptures. But rather Timothy's understanding of them- "from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures" -he has known the scriptures. Not many could say this in my opinion.
"which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus"
Present tense, therefore I think it is "breathing" rather then breathed-past tense.
That is if one wants to say it means God-breathed.
And it seems to me that there is a lot more to it then what is seen in black and white but what was actually happening in their lives.
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CM
Here again I believe this is in the present tense of the ones talking to each other.
Getting an understanding of what these people were experiencing and living would be helpful in understanding the points being made and the truths discussed. These are letters.
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Mike
T-Bone,
Oops, I meant to post this on the PFAL thread, in response to you there. Sorry.
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