Did God talk to VP?

[Tom Strange]

Ok, I took some aspirin.

The question was obviously hypothetical: no doubt Moses had a million times more integrity, but even God did not allow him to see the promised land.

So, would the bush have been seen by anyone else?

Maybe... we'll never know... and I've thought of that angle as well... it was a phenomenon from God FOR veepee... but.. given his track record... I vote NO. You see... veepee has a bit of a credibility gap with me (and others ya think?)... God wouldn't waste his phenomena on folks that can't be believed...

[doojable]

Suuuuuuurrreee he didddddd.....yea that's the ticket. yea, God spoke to Vp and then He came and told me to hide my eggs so that the Easter Bunny would get them before Santa gave then to the leprachauns ....

R.i.. i.. i.. ghtttt.....

[topoftheworld]

Tom-thanks for giving the thought some consideration, but I concure with your conclusion.

Dooj:

[What The Hey]

The "snowstorm incidents" were discussed in the Doctrinal forum on the old ProPFAL thread. It was there where 'Mike' had posted the following:

We have had a witness here on GreaseSpot who saw in his lifetime TWO highly localized snow "storms" that were very dense, yet very small in the area they covered, like football field size. It is easy to see how such a "rogue wave" in land based weather might not make into the county weather recordings because it was small enough to escape the attention of whoever records the official weather events.

Why is it that no one here recalls that GreaseSpot witness' report but me? Shall I find it and paste it here for all to see again? Is anyone able or willing to bring back that evidence? Or is it only evidence that fits with the popular theory on the 1942 weather that Dr was lying that gets recalled?

Would you like me to bring up that discussion here? I don't want to bother. I have better things to do with my time.

***

You wrote: "The Tulsa story is questioned, because again there's no evidence to support the blizzard story either."

Here, for this subject, I have EVEN LESS time. Dr could have made a mistake on the time and date and that would settle it very easily. I don't see that this situation is critical for him to have been accurate. Then again, the weather report cold have a error. That happens to, you know. Then there are man other possibilities. Why bother? Unless you're hell bent on finding excuses to not taking him seriously. I see this story as relatively insignificant.

It was already a discussion of the same incident back on that tread. Same-o, Same-o all over again.

[Belle]

It was already a discussion of the same incident back on that tread. Same-o, Same-o all over again.

mebbe so, WTH, but not everyone has been around here that long and it's good, I think, to talk about stuff again - sometimes people remember things they didn't remember then, perceptions change too. Besides that, if someone wants to discuss a topic it's way more fun and productive to do it in live time rather than someone telling them to just read the old threads.

If'n yer bored with the "same-o, same-o", why bother?

[diazbro]

So Mike has it that someone can attest to the occurrence of freak snow storms (twice in a life time) and he wishes to advance it that surely this must have been what VPW saw. But VPW later says an angel bailed him out when he was confronted with the lack of evidence that he was "snowed in". Of course a freak snowstorm wouldn't have resulted in an undetected "snow-in" situation that paralyzed the town. VPW had it that it was something major that impacted not only him but others (the airport) yet he seems to be the only one who saw it. I think if the airport grounded planes because of a snow storm then they would have documented it. Of course the VPW fanatic then jumps back now to the "angel story" where we are to believe that it was really an angel who was talking to VPW and not an agent at the airport. And it was a a lying angel at that. Making up stories about a snow storm to keep VPW in his hotel room to polish off another bottle of drambuie. I don't think angels lie or help enable those who would lile but ,in the minds of a VPW freak, of course the angels would bend rules for Dr. Drambuie.

You see how embarrassing it is for VPW fanatics ? They keep twisting and trying to justify all of VPW's words and works and when its obvious that they can't , they make up something even more outrageous (freak snowstorms that only one person can see) and grasp at straws to keep the leagacy of their king alive. This is sad, so sad yet they keep at it with dogged persistence. Pathetic. And isn't it also interesting that Mike says that its all insignifcant anyway in an attempt to downplay the whole issue but thats not cool since VPW's snow story was frequently referenced and used as a key,pivotal moment in Way history.

So you can't down play it. TWI didn't - at least in the 70s.

Edited March 22, 2006 by diazbro

[Tom Strange]

wasn't the angel answer in reference to the not being able to fly in from Tahoe and teaching over the phone? if it is, I don't think we need to include that with the snow stories because it was just an "excuse" not a phenomenon... if not... then never mind...

[diazbro]

wasn't the angel answer in reference to the not being able to fly in from Tahoe and teaching over the phone? if it is, I don't think we need to include that with the snow stories because it was just an "excuse" not a phenomenon... if not... then never mind...

According to johniam:

"VP never said there was an actual snowstorm. He said he called the airport and the voice on the other end said there was a snowstorm. VP once said he thought it was an angel saying that for the purpose of keeping him there long enough to meet the guy who led him into tongues."

According to WordWolf:

So, Barries Hill found that the reality of the event did not match

vpw's account of the event.

"Hill notes that the weather bureau, newspapers and airport do NOT record

a snowstorm at that time."

Naturally, this woman-who previously had believed him COMPLETELY-

brought this to his attention.

It is at THIS time that the new levels of this story develop.

"When she mentioned this to Wierwille, he dismissed these facts by

suggesting that the blizzard was 'a phenomenon' or that he 'spoke with angels'

when he called the airport, train station and bus station.

Wierwille conveniently blames holy angels for LYING to him about the

weather rather than admit his fabrication."

Anyone who was with TWI in the 70s especially the early 70s would know that the snow storm story was circulated

and referred to. Plus it was documented though VPW changed it (see above). Now VPW supporters are trying to find

inventive ways to keep the deity that is VPW from looking like the liar he was. They aren't doing a very good job.

Edited March 22, 2006 by diazbro

[Tom Strange]

Anyone who was with TWI in the 70s especially the early 70s would know that the snow storm story was circulated

and referred to. Plus it was documented though VPW changed it (see above). Now VPW supporters are trying to find

inventive ways to keep the deity that is VPW from looking like the liar he was. They aren't doing a very good job.

yeah... I was there then... thanks...

I also recently read what the poster claimed was a transcript of a SNS from 1965 where veepee talks about asking God to show him a sign that it was really him and it turned from a clear blue autumn day to a gray snowstorm in the blink of an eye... in Payne, Ohio...

[WordWolf]

Well,

I didn't see the need to embarass anyone on the OLD

thread about this comment, but-seeing as someone felt the

need to bring it up again, I'll address some of the inadequate

claims now. (The rest can wait til later.)

Regarding the Tulsa lie, the following was said:

"Dr could have made a mistake on the time and date and that would settle it very

easily. I don't see that this situation is critical for him to have been accurate.

Then again, the weather report could have an error. That happens, to, you know.

Then there are many other possibilities. Why bother? Unless you're hell-bent on

finding excuses to not taking him seriously. I see this story as relatively insignificant."

Where shall I start?

It's obvious to me that this statement is hiding a deliberate attempt to avoid the

reported facts of the event, even to the point of never having read about it

in the FIRST PLACE.

"Dr could have made a mistake on the time and date and that would settle

it very easily."

No, it wouldn't-mainly because he never REPORTED a time and date.

He was DELIBERATELY VAGUE on the specific event he attended-

notice its NAME was never given, the HOTEL NAME was missing,

and so on? We have the city and the month.

After someone did some research, they found the specific event,

hotel and dates. THAT is where the exact dates come from-

the official records of the event. So, the time/date thing does NOT

allow vpw to squirm off the hook-despite his attempts to keep both

vague and thus avoiding being questioned in the first place.

"I don't see that this situation is critical for him to have been accurate."

vpw himself said this was one of the 2 most important days in his LIFE.

Yet he fabricated important details about it-fabrications which were

uncovered. He demonstrated that he had no problem inventing

snowstorms to make special events sound more holy.

The SECOND most important day in his life had a manufactured

snowstorm. And you expect me to believe his account of a

snowstorm in his account of the MOST important day in his life?

Few people have difficulty seeing the connection.

"Then again, the weather report could have an error. That happens too, you know."

We know.

That's why TWO independent weather reports were consulted.

No snowstorms for the entire MONTH.

Not even a single flake for the timeframe in question.

"Then there are many other possibilities."

Like what? Alien invasion?

There are no other possibilities.

He lied. He was caught lying. He CHANGED his lie.

"Why bother?"

We want to know the truth. And a consistent, clear pattern appears-

for those who wish to look.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

WordWolf...That's a good run down of the facts. Any objective person that is familiar with the facts can clearly see that Wierwille was a liar. His motives were just as obvious...

There will be some who cling to the myth, who will close their eyes to anything that shows that their mog was anything less than what they want him to be...they have put him on a pedestal and they bow before him...

...it's pathetic and sad. The man was a grifter.

[doojable]

...they have put him on a pedestal and they bow before him...

Groucho - this statement takes on new meaning with your avatar right beside it.

[waterbuffalo]

Yeah, I could give you the name of the guy who called the airlines

Geo, wish I knew who that was who called so I could shake his hand. Why weren't we all doing that??????

Edited March 26, 2006 by waterbuffalo

[WordWolf]

Why weren't we all doing that??????

I'm speculating here,

but I suspect it's the same reasons later people didn't just start out

researching this from Day One.

When a man presents himself as a minister of God,

he presents that he's making a good-faith attempt to

exemplify-in word AND deed-

the standards set up by God Almighty.

Therefore, you EXPECT that his 'yea' is 'yea', and his 'nay' is 'nay'.

You don't expect him to lie ACCIDENTALLY to you,

let alone INTENTIONALLY.

Furthermore,

when you think a minister is exceptional-

say, he's teaching better material than you've ever heard before

AND supposedly it comes from him having a superior connection

with God, AND he tells you something,

you expect it to be MORE reliable, not less.

As we can see now, that was error on our parts.

But, you can see how we made it.

[waterbuffalo]

Finally we get a phone call. VP explains that he and Howard are stuck in Reno. They just can't fly out, the entire airport is SNOWED IN! Boy, he just can't explain how his believing has failed, but, geeze, the flights have ALL been canceled.

In RENO?????? Has it ever snowed in Reno, NV?

Still kicking myself for the many times I knew the emperor had no clothes and said nothing!

Edited March 26, 2006 by waterbuffalo

[waterbuffalo]

Therefore, you EXPECT that his 'yea' is 'yea', and his 'nay' is 'nay'.

You don't expect him to lie ACCIDENTALLY to you,

let alone INTENTIONALLY.

You are correct, sir! But, a lot of us still thought, gee that doesn't sound right, and kept our mouths shut anyway because of above.

[Raf]

Regarding the Lie of Tulsa (I'm catching up), Mike's explanation defies logic for one simple reason: Wierwille never denied that he was confronted with the correct event on the correct date, and he never insisted that there was indeed a snowstorm. If I told you that it snowed heavily the day of the Little Chester Shoe Store incident in the Bronx, and you did research that indicated I was lying, my first response would be to tell you that you had your facts wrong. I was there. I was in that snowstorm. I got into a minor accident because of it. I have no doubt in my mind or heart, no doubt whatsoever. I would not say, "Well, shucks, angels must have shown me the snow."

It's just plain common sense that if Wierwille believed there was a snowstorm that day, which he explicitly stated, and someone confronted him with evidence he was wrong, his first reaction would be to tell the researcher he's mistaken, period. He didn't, because he knew danged well there was no snowstorm that day. He knew danged well that he was lying.

As for the localized snowstorm being witnessed: a Greasespotter has indeed made the claim that highly localized snowstorms have indeed taken place in Ohio, and that he witnessed it. I get the sense that this person understands a thing or two about the weather. Other than the Greasespotter's testimony, I've never heard of this phenomenon. Then again, I've spent exactly ten days in Ohio in my entire life, so I'm no expert. I do believe, however, that there is considerably greater evidence that Wierwille was lying about the 1942 snowstorm than that he was somehow telling the truth. First, we know he lies about snowstorms to punctuate his testimony (the Tulsa lie is as heavily documented as a lie can get: refusal to see it doesn't make it go away, and the second lie was recounted on this very thread. I've been given the names of other witnesses besides the Greasespotter who pointed it out here). Wierwille would have us believe the sudden 1942 snowstorm happened, at the latest, in early October. Could it happen? Don't know. I don't know the earliest recorded snowfalls in Ohio. Just strikes me as odd that one localized snowstorm the size of a football field could take place on a day when the weather was so much warmer such a short distance away. I'm not a weatherman, but I know a liar when I hear one. I'm counting one heavily documented snowstorm lie, one likely snowstorm lie, and the 1942 incident: I suspect all three are lies, and Wierwille's lack of integrity doesn't help his case in the slightest.

In RENO?????? Has it ever snowed in Reno, NV?

Still kicking myself for the many times I knew the emperor had no clothes and said nothing!

Sure it has.

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/stormcente...nev-storm_x.htm

[ChasUFarley]

Maybe I'm going to play 's advocate for a moment....

If we believed that the outpouring of holy spirit is supernatural...

then, why can't we believe that a freak snowstorm - even a tiny-widdle one - was also supernatural?

(Ducking... running.... grabbing a flack jacket.... and a bbq rib off Belle's plate as I streak by.... )

[LG]

The Payne, Ohio one would have been, Chas, if it happened. Wierwille strongly implies that it was miraculous and never indicates that it was widespread, so it could conceivably have happened without showing up in weather records. The purported Tulsa snowstorm is different. A snowstorm that shut down all exits from a city would be noted in weather records. Not even an idiot would be fooled by an angel or anyone else saying that the city was snowed in, when a glance out the window would prove otherwise.

[sprawled out]

why was it always snow? why wasn't it ever some other weather event? no imagination? stick with the tried-and-true? ("Victor did not attend school yesterday because we had a blizzard at our house. Signed, Wierwille's Mother.")

or could it be he was warning us, subliminally, that it was all A SNOW JOB??

(or is that just the oldest GS joke in the book?)

[rascal]

Love it!! :D

[Belle]

Sprawled Out, you crack me up!

[Raf]

LG,

Thank you for your reply. I agree with it wholeheartedly. I no longer say outright that the 1942 snowstorm was a lie. I say I believe it was a lie, based largely on the fact that the man is proven to lie about snowstorms. I freely admit that there's no proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the 1942 snowstorm did not happen, just as there is not a shred of proof that it did happen, beyond the single-witness testimony of a man who told at least one and likely two documented lies about nonexistent snowstorms.

[coolchef1248 @adelphia.net]

a snow job! is that the same thing as a ...well never mind <_<

[waterbuffalo]

OK. It's good to learn new things, Raf! I hadn't realized that. Thanks! Maybe its closeness to Calif. threw me off? Who knows (no, I'm not a valley girl, imho, lol).

Edited April 1, 2006 by waterbuffalo