Sure read a lot about men being the perps, yet one of the key perps in the net child porn ring was a woman. Rape and molestation and the horrible resulting damage doesn't depend on what sex the attacker is. It is a lot more common than any of us think that the attacker of innocent children are women.
So, what ya going to cut off of some sick perverted bitch?
I say never let them see the light of day again, and inside a cheap pine box six feet under will make sure the sun never shines on them again.That is unless you really think rewarding sexual crimes with sexual crimes is really the answer.
LOL, abi! We also use 2-way walkie talkies when my 9-year-old rides her bike the 2 blocks to the park or walks our dog around the block!
AND, I just put up a 6 ft. privacy fence around my back yard too! (We're waiting on the big gate to be attached and then it'll be finished.)
We put a pool and a terrific playset in our back yard, along with a teeter totter. The neighborhood kids gather at our house.
I also have security cameras around my home so that I can see what's going on out there when I'm working in my office. I work from home so that I am available to my daughter in ways I couldn't be if I worked in the city somewhere.
You said, "Last weekend he was riding bikes in the alley and radioed me that he was coming in because there was an adult in the alley that was making him nervous." Bravo! That looks to me like proof that what you're doing is working!
We have to fight this fight one family at a time, but we can keep our kids safe if we really make their safety our priority and don't just say we do.
I had a very very pretty little girl . she is a beauty , and I worried alot because theywalked to school and she had brothers, and we always had people around. I worked and had things to do I know it was so possible .
she is grown now , I can finaly say this.. I told her to bite .. with every tooth she had if she was upset. and to scream scram a blood curdle scream like you just got hit by a train.
bad mommy I am babd bad bad. She is still very very pretty and she is tiny and the whole darn neighborhood is afriad of her she is loud and mean when she needs to be.
she has always lead in her class and is now a manager at a small business.
so sorry if this does not fit in with your PC world of justice for all after the fact, the solution that worked for us was teach them to bite and bite hard as very young children.. and allow them to scream practice those lungs just in case!
yeah we did have one incident in which we werre asked to leave a day care.. she had biten and I asked her why she was angry that the other kid had to wear diapers and he smelled like poop and she was so potty trained and it was making her sick (she had a very weak stomach always has have) and he wanted to play with her , she said "NO" but he would not leave it had made her angry. so she bit him.
yeah well everyone knows when your three your supppose to go in the potty man she was just doing the right thing he was the jerk you know, (still wore diapers) eew.
so we talked about that and how the situation might have been handled a different way.. and found a day care that loved her very much and learned not to press her buttons and evryone in the room was potty trained . worked for us.
Concerning this notion that to a child molester, sex with a child FEELS GOOD? No, it really doesn’t. It feels wrong. It feels sneaky. It feels risky and dangerous. At the very least, it feels naughty. It doesn’t just start out FEELING GOOD the first time. It doesn’t FEEL GOOD until one kicks out all those feelings I listed and more. (I’m not talking about the innocent one, the child. I’m talking about the molester. Of course they have to make it feel good to the child if they intend to continue molesting the child and deceiving everyone involved, including the child. The guilt a child may feel for the realization that it feels good to be touched in a sexual manner is misplaced guilt. That’s never a child’s fault. That simply means their body works properly, nothing more.)
I'm thankful that each generation seems to be more aware of things of this nature and nothing has helped that like the internet of course. But my mother probably never knew to even look for such things in a 4 year old. Today she would be more apt to look just because she has grown in a society where we know horrible things happen to good people all the time.
I wouldn't have wanted my dad's dad to have given up his life for what he did to me. And I doubt he had a free ticket anyway because I can't believe he didn't suffer insanity in other areas of his life as well. But I think we err when we assume it to belong to a certain church. In truth it lies within the walls of our own homes way more, way more! And many you'll never hear about!
I don't know the statistics but I understand that most "predators" were at one time abused themselves.
Not everyone abused becomes an abuser. Not every abuser was abused.
But today we hate these men for what they've done, and we love the children who've been so harmed.
In 15 or 20 years, those victims will yield the next wave of predators. Will we then hate them, and only love the next wave of victims? Should we round up the kids and punish them now, because statistically many will "go bad" later?
There are reasons few of these people seek help. First, they probably don't see the harm. They rationalize. "Sex feels good." "Our culture is repressed, it's natural to express love in every form." "This is the way God made them."
The DO know they will be reported, stigmatized, persecuted. In the face of so much risk, they still do what they do, but hide it. And there are their enablers, too weak and ashamed to turn them in, usually because it's in the family. So the child is sacrificed.
I'm not saying I don't harbor a smoldering rage toward any adult who would exploit a child that way, and like any other parent, I would have murderous intentions toward anyone who touched my own child.
But what if my child had become a victim? Sure, the perp would be dealt with. But what of the ticking time bom that MAY have been set? Do I ignore it, pretend nothing happened, hope for the best? Do I hound my child with threats and supplications not to "turn out like that?" Do I stick her in counseling three days a week until she's 18?
And what if none of it worked? What if, like the innocent bitten by a b-movie vampire, the curse is transferred? Do I then have her "dealt with?"
These questions are unanswerable really. The answers are only found along the way by those who must walk it, and not easily.
But we've been living in a fantasy land of right and wrong, and the requisite blinders have hidden the obvious from our eyes. Abberations from the "norm" are out there, and our moral preconceptions and prejudices serve nothing or no one - not the victims, not the predator compelled to strike for the first time. We aren't really dealing with the problem.
We should not excuse the crime. But it's time the crime stopped being against US, stopped being about our own shock and indignation and outrage, and once again became a crime against the children. And when we remember that, we may remember that those priests were once altar boys, and some of them, maybe many of them, were themselves childhood victims in this cycle of pedophilia.
I'd suggest a law-enforcement sponsored "safe harbor" for people who feel compelled to commit certain kinds of crimes. That place would protect their identity, but track them too, and provide support they need to resist destructive impulses. There would be rules (where to live, etc), and in exchange there would be help.
For those who don't seek help, far more severe retribution for their crimes.
I do not believe any child could be introduced to the world of sex and it not have a deep and lasting affect. I can tell you (well....anyway) that I know it and I was definitely broken. I was introduced to things you shouldn't know about your body as a child. Some victims with similar understandings may even think well that's not a bad thing as an adult right?! But there is no way anyone can not be broken. So what do they do with it? I got married with my high school graduation gown on nearly. I would be protected I thought.
That idea is so far from workable, it's a form of denial. Who should kill 'em? Rambo? Spiderman?
Not that it could ever happen, but I think we could prevent many of these crimes by asking for the pedophiles' help.
Sudo's starting to foam at the mouth about now.
Here's what I mean. I just don't think a lot of pedophiles want to do it, especially the first time. They have an "itch" they didn't choose, and it wants to be scratched. I think they fight it, just as gays often repress their impulses because they know it isn't accepted by society. They fear the consequences, sure, but they may also resist becoming what they themselves reject. Where is the "support system" for them? What, other than harsh but uncertain consequences and society's loathing, helps them to "just say no?"
Not a damn thing, as far as I know.
Remember Vic's example of the alcoholic in the back of his church? Vic may have been a fraud, but the example rang true because that's human nature and we recognize it. Human weakness + shame = more weakness.
A dispassionate, even compassionate program of "Help us help you." Maybe it would mean chemical castration, or some variation, at public expense, no questions asked. "You aren't evil, please stop before you do something that is."
Would it reduce incidents? Don't know. Depends, maybe. I'll leave it to the social theoreticians. It might at least be more effective than a lot of fitful indignation and empty threats that only serve to isolate these people long before we know who they are, and, I believe, make them far more dangerous.
It's an addiction for the abusers. What it brings to them I can't know. But it draws them back. Something needs to become more important to them than the follow through with children.
These guys say themselves that there's no rehabilitation for this perversion.
Go ahead. Call it a disease. Comfort, house, feed and entertain these people. Spend your time trying to figure out how to help them control their urges. You figure out how to prevent them from destroying innocent lives in order to "satisfy their urge."
But when your daughter is molested while your back is turned, send her to me. I'll make sure it never happens to her again, since you won't.
See, I don't care at all about why they molest children. I do care very much about giving our children the luxury of a molestation-free childhood.
Yes, I say kill em all. You bet I do. Who'll kill em? I bet you'd be surprised at how many volunteer to pull that switch. I'd be one.
See, I don't care at all about why they molest children. I do care very much about giving our children the luxury of a molestation-free childhood.
Yes, I say kill em all. You bet I do. Who'll kill em? I bet you'd be surprised at how many volunteer to pull that switch. I'd be one.
What scares me about Bow's comment here is that it's so true. Not the kill them part cuz I'd assist in that. What I speak of is the luxury comment.
I find it beyond sad that a molestation free childhood IS a luxury for kids now. Gone are the days of kids playing outside from morning to night, taking off on their bikes, wandering in the woods. Hell, what about the kid(s) who HATES to be home, hates school breaks 'cuz home is so bad?
We have to worry about our babies disappearing in the middle of the night from their own bedrooms now!
It once was a luxury to have an extra car in the garage, a luxury to be able to take a little vacation, a luxury to have a pool in the neighborhood.
Now it's a luxury when a kid grows up without having been molested. Talk about a war zone.
pond - I'll put my comments to your post in bold. You said "I had a very very pretty little girl . she is a beauty , and I worried alot because theywalked to school and she had brothers, and we always had people around. I worked and had things to do I know it was so possible .
she is grown now , I can finaly say this.. I told her to bite ..
You can finally say this now? You couldn't sooner why? Do you feel you taught her wrongly and are now admitting your error?
bad mommy I am babd bad bad. She is still very very pretty and she is tiny and the whole darn neighborhood is afriad of her she is loud and mean when she needs to be.
she has always lead in her class and is now a manager at a small business.
You think it's funny to be a bad mommy? Well, at least she is still very very pretty and she is tiny and the whole darn neighborhood is afraid of her great, I see that's what counts to you. Oh yeah, you did mention later that she's now a manager at a small business.
You found a day care that didn't push your 3-year-old's buttons? Oh my GOD! You can still shock me! No, it's really not as simple as everyone knows that when you're 3 you're supposed to go in the potty. You have no idea why that little boy was still in diapers and it's none of your business.
yeah we did have one incident in which we werre asked to leave a day care.. she had biten and I asked her why she was angry that the other kid had to wear diapers and he smelled like poop and she was so potty trained and it was making her sick (she had a very weak stomach always has have) and he wanted to play with her , she said "NO" but he would not leave it had made her angry. so she bit him.
yeah well everyone knows when your three your supppose to go in the potty man she was just doing the right thing he was the jerk you know, (still wore diapers) eew.
so we talked about that and how the situation might have been handled a different way.. and found a day care that loved her very much and learned not to press her buttons and evryone in the room was potty trained . worked for us.
You say you talked about how it could have been handled differently, but then you approved her judgmental behavior when you found a day care that you said learned not to press her buttons and everyone in the room was potty trained.
I'm no expert on daycare, but of the 3 I used for my daughter, not one of them had a policy of "not pressing 3-year-olds' buttons." They all insisted that each child behaved in a socially acceptable manner.
I love her so much. nasty little girl she is."
By the way, the topic of this thread is what to do with child molesters, not how to guarantee the child you raise grows up to be, let me see, how did you put that? Oh yes, "Nasty little girl she is."
(I only read your post because at the beginning it appeared you were staying with the topic. Silly me)
It's my understanding, too, that these guys aren't going to stop molesting children if they get the chance. Chemical castration? I duuno if that would stop the behavior but I have a feeling the courts would rule it "cruel and unusual". Then where are we? I like what Abigail said about Michigan. I didn't know about the proposed law but these folks can't be let back into society.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you all, I think everyone missed an important question Satori was asking. I'll paraphrase:
What if your child were molested and that somehow caused him or her to become a pedophilie someday? All the "just kill 'em" bravado aside, doesn't that question make you stop and think, even a little, about whether you'd want to kill your own child for becoming a pervert as a result of being attacked by one?
I've got no sympathy for pedophiles, and my heart goes out to those of you who were molested as children.
But I don't know if killing the known ones would rid the earth of the pedophilia scourge. I'm sure new ones would just spring up in their places. I like Satori's idea. Let them voluntarily go to some place where they'd be kept from being a threat to society.
What ....es me off is that this even needs to be a topic of discussion or debate.
The offender who does such horrible things to CHILDREN! has sentenced that CHILD! to a lifetime of problems. The one the molested them is always a part of their life, forever. The CHILD has to live with what happened to them.
Often times the perp who has destroyed several or many children, often even just the one that he's stuck with, doesn't even remember it. "Ummm lets see, were there 4? Wait, maybe that little boy when I lived in ____, and I'm not sure but maybe 3-4 more during that time I was living ____"
But the CHILD never forgets and can often tell the exact date it started, the date is ended, and all the horror in between.
What does it say about our society when we argue about whether or not a CHILD molester should be allowed his/her rights. No wonder CHILDREN so often don't even tell the grown ups.
I've got no sympathy for pedophiles, and my heart goes out to those of you who were molested as children.
But I don't know if killing the known ones would rid the earth of the pedophilia scourge. I'm sure new ones would just spring up in their places. I like Satori's idea. Let them voluntarily go to some place where they'd be kept from being a threat to society.
If them going someplace voluntarily would work for the whole mass, that'd be great. What we need, in our society, is for all of them as well as others, to see that it will not ever be tolerated and if they take action on the crap going on in their minds, this is what will happen. Every time.
Edited to remove offensive wordings with apologies to those that have suffered this horror first hand.
Linda - If I were to fail my child to the end that they became a child molester, yes, I would have to see them put to death too. I don't care who it is.
Maybe the idea of isolation and hope for rehab to work could have been implemented a hundred years ago, before the pedophile population became so huge. Maybe if there weren't so damned many of them we could try that. But these perverts often attack more than one child during the course of their raping spree.
The only way that works every time to stop a molester from ever molesting again is to put them to death. Dead people molest nobody.
To one that can so terrorize children, when society says nothing or so very little, it says to them that it's either ok or tolerable.
That is why the numbers are so high. ...., for the common perp, serving a couple of years (months sometimes) is nothing and there will be plenty of children at his/her disposal when release happens.
Often times the perp who has destroyed several or many children, often even just the one that he's stuck with, doesn't even remember it. "Ummm lets see, were there 4? Wait, maybe that little boy when I lived in ____, and I'm not sure but maybe 3-4 more during that time I was living ____"
But the CHILD never forgets and can often tell the exact date it started, the date is ended, and all the horror in between.
What does it say about our society when we argue about whether or not a CHILD molester should be allowed his/her rights. No wonder CHILDREN so often don't even tell the grown ups.
You get it! We have to take better care of our children than this! The only way to allow the child to forget is to remove the threat of repeat molestation. Dead pedophiles can't hurt anyone else.
Shell, thanks, but I don't need to picture a little girl. I can picture myself being dragged onto my best friend's grandpa's lap for his 1950s version of lap dances. And I got off way easier than my two best friends who both suffered much more severe forms of sexual molestation by another elderly man in our neighborhood and his grandson.
I'm not saying that what these people do isn't horrible and reprehensible. I'm not "arguing about their rights" as you allege. I don't recall saying they have any rights.
All I'm asking is for you to consider Satori's theoretical question: What if YOUR child became a pedophile as an adult because of a traumatic experience he or she had suffered as a child at the hands of a pedophile? So where does the cycle end? If victims often becomes victimizers, how do we get it to stop? Is there any solution short of killing all the victims that later became victimizers?
I think those are some valid questions.
When I hear about a grown man putting his penis anywhere NEAR the teeny, tiny vagina of a 7-MONTH-OLD little girl, I don't know whether to cry, barf, or grab a torch start a lynch mob. But on a less emotional level, are there any other solutions besides "kill 'em...kill 'em all!!"?
GingerTea ( in case you ever lurk here) used to say, "Damaged people damage people." That's not an excuse, but it sure begs the question, "How do we stop the cycle?" Is there any way besides death???
You know, I'm a proponent of the death penalty in unequivocally proven cases of murder, violent rape and, yes, even child molestation involving rape. One side of me wants the uncle of the 7-month-old to die a painful death.
But I think it's important to step back from the understandable emotion of this whole issue and consider other possibile solutions. We say these people are "sick," and I'd certainly agree with that! So the solution to mental illness is execution? I dunno. Satori's safe harbor (or whatever he called it) idea sounds like an alternative worth giving some thought to.
most molesters do not “attack” they groom with shame and guilt over a period of time.
the sensational news story of a rape of a minor always hits the fornt page news.
Most abuse just does not happen in this manner it is often a family memeber or close friend of the family or a leader in the community at large in which you belong.
Most do not get caught, many more do not get reported to the authorites for any type of criminal conviction.
Why? because of the shame and denial so many do not want to deal with. What will the jones think if you acuse some one so beloved of such a thing, so the child stays silent and the adult just cant notice what is happening under their own eyes.
As far as my daughter oh yes she was nasty she was loud and she was allowed to have voice even if those in charge (all adults to a child) disagreed.
no it was not our business why the other child wore a diaper what is her business is she told him not to play with her and he refused to respect her choice. so she bit. WAS it ok to bite no. Is it ok to disrespect your own mind and thoughts and what you need to to feel ok and safe?
A even louder NO!
I refused to teach my kids tolerance. If they do not want to play with a person who smells and it makes them sick I will hear their vioce before I concede the day care most know what they are doing .
compasion or empathy is not tolerance. She ended up going to a much nicer day care in which respect was the norm . for everyone and the diaper issue which is an issue when one is being potty trained(do not know how many you have trained but it is HUGE for daycare)
My children were allowed to dislike who I loved. My children had loud vioces and they still do as grown people and all are in leader positions in their schools and work. .
many victims are not heard, because the adults in their life cant hear what they are saying... it is to painful to think your own brother may have sexual touched your daughter so you do not hear it. or your father or your best friend or your sexy new boyfriends.
and your wrong about it being sexual.. The ILLUSION of this is people think they look like some creepy guy hanging out on the corner in black clothes who never even had a girlfriend.
no they are often pillars of the community often in high positions of authority with children as their professional focus. WE just had four DRs for children arested here. they have children of their own and families that hold them in regard and esteem. they have sex with their wifes and live a very perfect life beyond question. teachers, pastors, family members who are loved. ARE you still ready willing to pull the trigger to KILL them all?
That is why it is so very difficult to report them for a child . or even the adults involved who may realize something is not right but wish the thought away quickly with the pretige of who they are in their life.
thye must be wrong everyone loves them . so they stay silent.
It is a family disease, ever wonder why some do get molested but some never will be abused?
it is in the power of the voice and those who love them enough to hear it. even if you do not believe it your own self about a person YOU LOVE.
can you still hear the child ? really ? how about the fight and the shame of all those you care about who think you should not hear it? hmm?
you want someone to kill your dad , your brother , your husband or your boyfriend ? yeah when it is a total stranger it is easy to say kill them all , but that isnt how this crime works it is those who betray your genuine love and trust who do this type of behaviour, She was allowed to have a voice and if they (all adults) wouldnt listen it was ok to do anything she needed to do to respect her own self first , I said FIRST beyond me beyond who is who .
I taught my kids to take on ownership of their bodies and their emotions, they belong to them and them only and they would never ever be invalid. ever . and speak it loud and clear so the whole world KNOWS it. . and Im glad I did . they are all wonderful people with many wonderful friends and jobs and families.
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wingnut
Sure read a lot about men being the perps, yet one of the key perps in the net child porn ring was a woman. Rape and molestation and the horrible resulting damage doesn't depend on what sex the attacker is. It is a lot more common than any of us think that the attacker of innocent children are women.
So, what ya going to cut off of some sick perverted bitch?
I say never let them see the light of day again, and inside a cheap pine box six feet under will make sure the sun never shines on them again.That is unless you really think rewarding sexual crimes with sexual crimes is really the answer.
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CoolWaters
bowtwi, thank you.
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bowtwi
LOL, abi! We also use 2-way walkie talkies when my 9-year-old rides her bike the 2 blocks to the park or walks our dog around the block!
AND, I just put up a 6 ft. privacy fence around my back yard too! (We're waiting on the big gate to be attached and then it'll be finished.)
We put a pool and a terrific playset in our back yard, along with a teeter totter. The neighborhood kids gather at our house.
I also have security cameras around my home so that I can see what's going on out there when I'm working in my office. I work from home so that I am available to my daughter in ways I couldn't be if I worked in the city somewhere.
You said, "Last weekend he was riding bikes in the alley and radioed me that he was coming in because there was an adult in the alley that was making him nervous." Bravo! That looks to me like proof that what you're doing is working!
We have to fight this fight one family at a time, but we can keep our kids safe if we really make their safety our priority and don't just say we do.
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pond
I had a very very pretty little girl . she is a beauty , and I worried alot because theywalked to school and she had brothers, and we always had people around. I worked and had things to do I know it was so possible .
she is grown now , I can finaly say this.. I told her to bite .. with every tooth she had if she was upset. and to scream scram a blood curdle scream like you just got hit by a train.
bad mommy I am babd bad bad. She is still very very pretty and she is tiny and the whole darn neighborhood is afriad of her she is loud and mean when she needs to be.
she has always lead in her class and is now a manager at a small business.
so sorry if this does not fit in with your PC world of justice for all after the fact, the solution that worked for us was teach them to bite and bite hard as very young children.. and allow them to scream practice those lungs just in case!
yeah we did have one incident in which we werre asked to leave a day care.. she had biten and I asked her why she was angry that the other kid had to wear diapers and he smelled like poop and she was so potty trained and it was making her sick (she had a very weak stomach always has have) and he wanted to play with her , she said "NO" but he would not leave it had made her angry. so she bit him.
yeah well everyone knows when your three your supppose to go in the potty man she was just doing the right thing he was the jerk you know, (still wore diapers) eew.
so we talked about that and how the situation might have been handled a different way.. and found a day care that loved her very much and learned not to press her buttons and evryone in the room was potty trained . worked for us.
I love her so much. nasty little girl she is.
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ChattyKathy
I can't thank you enough for those words bowtwi!
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Shellon
Pond, I don't understand.
If a little girl is attacked, she's to bite her attacker, is that your suggestion?
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ChattyKathy
I'm thankful that each generation seems to be more aware of things of this nature and nothing has helped that like the internet of course. But my mother probably never knew to even look for such things in a 4 year old. Today she would be more apt to look just because she has grown in a society where we know horrible things happen to good people all the time.
I wouldn't have wanted my dad's dad to have given up his life for what he did to me. And I doubt he had a free ticket anyway because I can't believe he didn't suffer insanity in other areas of his life as well. But I think we err when we assume it to belong to a certain church. In truth it lies within the walls of our own homes way more, way more! And many you'll never hear about!
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excathedra
this is such a horribly tough one
but today i'm trying to stay happy
happy st. paddy's day
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ChattyKathy
happy st paddy's day to you also dear one
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ChattyKathy
I do not believe any child could be introduced to the world of sex and it not have a deep and lasting affect. I can tell you (well....anyway) that I know it and I was definitely broken. I was introduced to things you shouldn't know about your body as a child. Some victims with similar understandings may even think well that's not a bad thing as an adult right?! But there is no way anyone can not be broken. So what do they do with it? I got married with my high school graduation gown on nearly. I would be protected I thought.
That's it. No more for now.
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satori001
Kill 'em all. Then they'll be gone. So simple.
That idea is so far from workable, it's a form of denial. Who should kill 'em? Rambo? Spiderman?
Not that it could ever happen, but I think we could prevent many of these crimes by asking for the pedophiles' help.
Sudo's starting to foam at the mouth about now.
Here's what I mean. I just don't think a lot of pedophiles want to do it, especially the first time. They have an "itch" they didn't choose, and it wants to be scratched. I think they fight it, just as gays often repress their impulses because they know it isn't accepted by society. They fear the consequences, sure, but they may also resist becoming what they themselves reject. Where is the "support system" for them? What, other than harsh but uncertain consequences and society's loathing, helps them to "just say no?"
Not a damn thing, as far as I know.
Remember Vic's example of the alcoholic in the back of his church? Vic may have been a fraud, but the example rang true because that's human nature and we recognize it. Human weakness + shame = more weakness.
A dispassionate, even compassionate program of "Help us help you." Maybe it would mean chemical castration, or some variation, at public expense, no questions asked. "You aren't evil, please stop before you do something that is."
Would it reduce incidents? Don't know. Depends, maybe. I'll leave it to the social theoreticians. It might at least be more effective than a lot of fitful indignation and empty threats that only serve to isolate these people long before we know who they are, and, I believe, make them far more dangerous.
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ChattyKathy
It's an addiction for the abusers. What it brings to them I can't know. But it draws them back. Something needs to become more important to them than the follow through with children.
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bowtwi
These guys say themselves that there's no rehabilitation for this perversion.
Go ahead. Call it a disease. Comfort, house, feed and entertain these people. Spend your time trying to figure out how to help them control their urges. You figure out how to prevent them from destroying innocent lives in order to "satisfy their urge."
But when your daughter is molested while your back is turned, send her to me. I'll make sure it never happens to her again, since you won't.
See, I don't care at all about why they molest children. I do care very much about giving our children the luxury of a molestation-free childhood.
Yes, I say kill em all. You bet I do. Who'll kill em? I bet you'd be surprised at how many volunteer to pull that switch. I'd be one.
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Shellon
What scares me about Bow's comment here is that it's so true. Not the kill them part cuz I'd assist in that. What I speak of is the luxury comment.
I find it beyond sad that a molestation free childhood IS a luxury for kids now. Gone are the days of kids playing outside from morning to night, taking off on their bikes, wandering in the woods. Hell, what about the kid(s) who HATES to be home, hates school breaks 'cuz home is so bad?
We have to worry about our babies disappearing in the middle of the night from their own bedrooms now!
It once was a luxury to have an extra car in the garage, a luxury to be able to take a little vacation, a luxury to have a pool in the neighborhood.
Now it's a luxury when a kid grows up without having been molested. Talk about a war zone.
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bowtwi
she is grown now , I can finaly say this.. I told her to bite ..
You can finally say this now? You couldn't sooner why? Do you feel you taught her wrongly and are now admitting your error?
bad mommy I am babd bad bad. She is still very very pretty and she is tiny and the whole darn neighborhood is afriad of her she is loud and mean when she needs to be.
she has always lead in her class and is now a manager at a small business.
You think it's funny to be a bad mommy? Well, at least she is still very very pretty and she is tiny and the whole darn neighborhood is afraid of her great, I see that's what counts to you. Oh yeah, you did mention later that she's now a manager at a small business.
You found a day care that didn't push your 3-year-old's buttons? Oh my GOD! You can still shock me! No, it's really not as simple as everyone knows that when you're 3 you're supposed to go in the potty. You have no idea why that little boy was still in diapers and it's none of your business.
yeah we did have one incident in which we werre asked to leave a day care.. she had biten and I asked her why she was angry that the other kid had to wear diapers and he smelled like poop and she was so potty trained and it was making her sick (she had a very weak stomach always has have) and he wanted to play with her , she said "NO" but he would not leave it had made her angry. so she bit him.
yeah well everyone knows when your three your supppose to go in the potty man she was just doing the right thing he was the jerk you know, (still wore diapers) eew.
so we talked about that and how the situation might have been handled a different way.. and found a day care that loved her very much and learned not to press her buttons and evryone in the room was potty trained . worked for us.
You say you talked about how it could have been handled differently, but then you approved her judgmental behavior when you found a day care that you said learned not to press her buttons and everyone in the room was potty trained.
I'm no expert on daycare, but of the 3 I used for my daughter, not one of them had a policy of "not pressing 3-year-olds' buttons." They all insisted that each child behaved in a socially acceptable manner.
I love her so much. nasty little girl she is."
By the way, the topic of this thread is what to do with child molesters, not how to guarantee the child you raise grows up to be, let me see, how did you put that? Oh yes, "Nasty little girl she is."
(I only read your post because at the beginning it appeared you were staying with the topic. Silly me)
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Sudo
Satori,
It's my understanding, too, that these guys aren't going to stop molesting children if they get the chance. Chemical castration? I duuno if that would stop the behavior but I have a feeling the courts would rule it "cruel and unusual". Then where are we? I like what Abigail said about Michigan. I didn't know about the proposed law but these folks can't be let back into society.
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Linda Z
Unless I'm misunderstanding you all, I think everyone missed an important question Satori was asking. I'll paraphrase:
What if your child were molested and that somehow caused him or her to become a pedophilie someday? All the "just kill 'em" bravado aside, doesn't that question make you stop and think, even a little, about whether you'd want to kill your own child for becoming a pervert as a result of being attacked by one?
I've got no sympathy for pedophiles, and my heart goes out to those of you who were molested as children.
But I don't know if killing the known ones would rid the earth of the pedophilia scourge. I'm sure new ones would just spring up in their places. I like Satori's idea. Let them voluntarily go to some place where they'd be kept from being a threat to society.
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Shellon
What ....es me off is that this even needs to be a topic of discussion or debate.
The offender who does such horrible things to CHILDREN! has sentenced that CHILD! to a lifetime of problems. The one the molested them is always a part of their life, forever. The CHILD has to live with what happened to them.
Often times the perp who has destroyed several or many children, often even just the one that he's stuck with, doesn't even remember it. "Ummm lets see, were there 4? Wait, maybe that little boy when I lived in ____, and I'm not sure but maybe 3-4 more during that time I was living ____"
But the CHILD never forgets and can often tell the exact date it started, the date is ended, and all the horror in between.
What does it say about our society when we argue about whether or not a CHILD molester should be allowed his/her rights. No wonder CHILDREN so often don't even tell the grown ups.
If them going someplace voluntarily would work for the whole mass, that'd be great. What we need, in our society, is for all of them as well as others, to see that it will not ever be tolerated and if they take action on the crap going on in their minds, this is what will happen. Every time.
Edited to remove offensive wordings with apologies to those that have suffered this horror first hand.
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bowtwi
Linda - If I were to fail my child to the end that they became a child molester, yes, I would have to see them put to death too. I don't care who it is.
Maybe the idea of isolation and hope for rehab to work could have been implemented a hundred years ago, before the pedophile population became so huge. Maybe if there weren't so damned many of them we could try that. But these perverts often attack more than one child during the course of their raping spree.
The only way that works every time to stop a molester from ever molesting again is to put them to death. Dead people molest nobody.
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Shellon
What we allow we teach is ok.
To one that can so terrorize children, when society says nothing or so very little, it says to them that it's either ok or tolerable.
That is why the numbers are so high. ...., for the common perp, serving a couple of years (months sometimes) is nothing and there will be plenty of children at his/her disposal when release happens.
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bowtwi
Shellon said:
Often times the perp who has destroyed several or many children, often even just the one that he's stuck with, doesn't even remember it. "Ummm lets see, were there 4? Wait, maybe that little boy when I lived in ____, and I'm not sure but maybe 3-4 more during that time I was living ____"
But the CHILD never forgets and can often tell the exact date it started, the date is ended, and all the horror in between.
What does it say about our society when we argue about whether or not a CHILD molester should be allowed his/her rights. No wonder CHILDREN so often don't even tell the grown ups.
You get it! We have to take better care of our children than this! The only way to allow the child to forget is to remove the threat of repeat molestation. Dead pedophiles can't hurt anyone else.
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Linda Z
Shell, thanks, but I don't need to picture a little girl. I can picture myself being dragged onto my best friend's grandpa's lap for his 1950s version of lap dances. And I got off way easier than my two best friends who both suffered much more severe forms of sexual molestation by another elderly man in our neighborhood and his grandson.
I'm not saying that what these people do isn't horrible and reprehensible. I'm not "arguing about their rights" as you allege. I don't recall saying they have any rights.
All I'm asking is for you to consider Satori's theoretical question: What if YOUR child became a pedophile as an adult because of a traumatic experience he or she had suffered as a child at the hands of a pedophile? So where does the cycle end? If victims often becomes victimizers, how do we get it to stop? Is there any solution short of killing all the victims that later became victimizers?
I think those are some valid questions.
When I hear about a grown man putting his penis anywhere NEAR the teeny, tiny vagina of a 7-MONTH-OLD little girl, I don't know whether to cry, barf, or grab a torch start a lynch mob. But on a less emotional level, are there any other solutions besides "kill 'em...kill 'em all!!"?
GingerTea (
in case you ever lurk here) used to say, "Damaged people damage people." That's not an excuse, but it sure begs the question, "How do we stop the cycle?" Is there any way besides death???
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Linda Z
You know, I'm a proponent of the death penalty in unequivocally proven cases of murder, violent rape and, yes, even child molestation involving rape. One side of me wants the uncle of the 7-month-old to die a painful death.
But I think it's important to step back from the understandable emotion of this whole issue and consider other possibile solutions. We say these people are "sick," and I'd certainly agree with that! So the solution to mental illness is execution? I dunno. Satori's safe harbor (or whatever he called it) idea sounds like an alternative worth giving some thought to.
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pond
most molesters do not “attack” they groom with shame and guilt over a period of time.
the sensational news story of a rape of a minor always hits the fornt page news.
Most abuse just does not happen in this manner it is often a family memeber or close friend of the family or a leader in the community at large in which you belong.
Most do not get caught, many more do not get reported to the authorites for any type of criminal conviction.
Why? because of the shame and denial so many do not want to deal with. What will the jones think if you acuse some one so beloved of such a thing, so the child stays silent and the adult just cant notice what is happening under their own eyes.
As far as my daughter oh yes she was nasty she was loud and she was allowed to have voice even if those in charge (all adults to a child) disagreed.
no it was not our business why the other child wore a diaper what is her business is she told him not to play with her and he refused to respect her choice. so she bit. WAS it ok to bite no. Is it ok to disrespect your own mind and thoughts and what you need to to feel ok and safe?
A even louder NO!
I refused to teach my kids tolerance. If they do not want to play with a person who smells and it makes them sick I will hear their vioce before I concede the day care most know what they are doing .
compasion or empathy is not tolerance. She ended up going to a much nicer day care in which respect was the norm . for everyone and the diaper issue which is an issue when one is being potty trained(do not know how many you have trained but it is HUGE for daycare)
My children were allowed to dislike who I loved. My children had loud vioces and they still do as grown people and all are in leader positions in their schools and work. .
many victims are not heard, because the adults in their life cant hear what they are saying... it is to painful to think your own brother may have sexual touched your daughter so you do not hear it. or your father or your best friend or your sexy new boyfriends.
and your wrong about it being sexual.. The ILLUSION of this is people think they look like some creepy guy hanging out on the corner in black clothes who never even had a girlfriend.
no they are often pillars of the community often in high positions of authority with children as their professional focus. WE just had four DRs for children arested here. they have children of their own and families that hold them in regard and esteem. they have sex with their wifes and live a very perfect life beyond question. teachers, pastors, family members who are loved. ARE you still ready willing to pull the trigger to KILL them all?
That is why it is so very difficult to report them for a child . or even the adults involved who may realize something is not right but wish the thought away quickly with the pretige of who they are in their life.
thye must be wrong everyone loves them . so they stay silent.
It is a family disease, ever wonder why some do get molested but some never will be abused?
it is in the power of the voice and those who love them enough to hear it. even if you do not believe it your own self about a person YOU LOVE.
can you still hear the child ? really ? how about the fight and the shame of all those you care about who think you should not hear it? hmm?
you want someone to kill your dad , your brother , your husband or your boyfriend ? yeah when it is a total stranger it is easy to say kill them all , but that isnt how this crime works it is those who betray your genuine love and trust who do this type of behaviour, She was allowed to have a voice and if they (all adults) wouldnt listen it was ok to do anything she needed to do to respect her own self first , I said FIRST beyond me beyond who is who .
I taught my kids to take on ownership of their bodies and their emotions, they belong to them and them only and they would never ever be invalid. ever . and speak it loud and clear so the whole world KNOWS it. . and Im glad I did . they are all wonderful people with many wonderful friends and jobs and families.
they are not victims.
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