what would i feel if anyone of them abused a chid?
kill them and if i ever did it {which i never would} i would hope that someone would kill me to put me out of my misery
kill them kill the kill them
you know I told one of my sons the same thing the other day, it freaked him out. lol it did .
I think I would to, but it really isnt that easy you know, they still have families and they still have a place in our society, it is often still considered mental illness or a family issue. and left in family court. . love is involved and the rights of the child to have parents and the parents with the child.
As far as these freaks on the internet oh my god a "streaming video of a small child being molested live" on the internet.
have mercy have mercy , I tell ya I am getting red fists to. I really belief this problem is alot more common than most of us will ever ever know, it has a power base from somewhere and honestly I do nt think it is all just men involved.
it is sick .
Have any of you heard of false accusation? it does happen . a bitter break-up custody issues.. men have to be careful as well, I told my son about insane women who have so much anger in from their own abuse they get twisted in their mind. Remember that day care in the 80's where every single employee was arrested and convicted of molestation? and in jail for many many years.. fantastic stories of how five year old woul be on airplane when they were molested (while in daycare???) it went through at the time.
they were convicted 6 women and about 4 males. then as the kids got older and away from those pressuring them to compy they rcanted and said NONE of it ever happened. they just wanted to make their mommys and daddys happy and for the ??? to stop!!! the charges where dropped after they had many years in prison for crimes they never did.
If my son was accused I would LOOK into the story and then decide how I would procede I would not neccesarily believe every lunitic accuser in the world.
false accusation does happen as well. so shoot them to?
Ok, so there is no question about what I'm saying.
Anybody, no matter who, no matter what sex, any man, woman, monkey, goat, any body at all, who molests a child and we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are guilty, that's who I think should be put to death for molesting children.
Now, before we get carried away with what ifs, I'll add that there is a huge difference between a pedophile and children innocently exploring themselves and maybe each other. That's where diligent parenting comes in. WE need to be the experts on OUR children. We need to be watching them and noticing when they become curious about and steering them in decent directions.
Ok, so there is no question about what I'm saying.
Anybody, no matter who, no matter what sex, any man, woman, monkey, goat, any body at all, who molests a child and we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are guilty, that's who I think should be put to death for molesting children.
Now, before we get carried away with what ifs, I'll add that there is a huge difference between a pedophile and children innocently exploring themselves and maybe each other. That's where diligent parenting comes in. WE need to be the experts on OUR children. We need to be watching them and noticing when they become curious about and steering them in decent directions.
a child who is molested often has problems with sex in their own life Bow tie, they end up having sex very young and with just about anyone.. no boudaries where taught or kept for them. ophra speaks of this often.
the fact it is "dirty little old men" isnt true the persucuters often begin their own illness at a very young age on even younger victims. and it is often dismissed by parents as harmless .. no one wants to think it could be worse...
I was watching tv, about a girl who was molested and she then in turn told other kids to molest other kids and forced them to comply with her wishes. of course she was on tv I doubt she would be stupid enough to admit actual molestation! on tv . but she said that is what she did with her feeling and anger. for a time of course now she is welll.
should she be shot? she was also a victim of this crime and turned others into victims. is it easier because she is a girl in your thoughts? why?
bow tie my answer is no. I do not think they should be killed.
"What if YOUR child became a pedophile as an adult because of a traumatic experience he or she had suffered as a child at the hands of a pedophile?"
It would break my heart beyond repair. I am the mother of two boys and I cannot even begin to imagine the horror of it, nor can I say with a certainty what I would do if the hypothetical were reality. But given the hypothetical and thankfully and hopefully never faced with the reality - I would say kill him and help stop the cycle so more children don't grow up to be just like that.
what I would like to see is a way to identify them clearly without mistake.
Like a massive tattoo on their face or something. and I would like them tracked and a clear list of where they live in every town with open easy viewing for every single person.
I think we should render them completly and totaly unable to enjoy any type of sex act for the rest of their life. ( cut them or it off )
I would like sever prosecution for those who aid and help them.
any parent who allows them around their children without the courts approval and restrictions would also be prosecuted. and lose their children.
that would make parents think about who they are leaving the kids with, or around.
I think killing them outright would not stop it , this is a behaviour we do not understand fully why or who will engage.
not all victims abuse and not all abusers have been abused .
killing them off would not stop it altogether. and it could lessen the reporting of it .
just like the act of murder I think this crime comes in degrees and should be treated as such and yes some should die .
What a tough one as our dear hostess would bear out. The passion that fuels this subject makes it more difficult on us all. I can't look at it through some of your eyes that weren't sexually abused as a child. What did it feel like to grow up as a young girl or boy and not look at every day with the potential of something more because as you grew so did the dynamics of the situation? Or is that selfish of me? Haven't each one of you lived through some sort of personal h3ll? But this one is different isn't it? Because it's our children and grandchildren that we see when we read these accounts and it boils us inside until we feel we could with our own strength and nothing more kill someone.
All I can do is be honest and say I could not kill a man that has hurt me. I would give anything not to have the memories but his death would only make my life harder. And because I can't see his death there has to be another way to assure that he never hurt another. And I don't know what. (he is dead btw)
Pond wrote: ...a child who is molested often has problems with sex in their own life Bow tie, they end up having sex very young and with just about anyone.. no boudaries where taught or kept for them. ophra speaks of this often..
I can only speak experientially on that one. I was engaged during a good piece of high school and married a month after graduation. Not all of us took on lovers.
You can also grow up thinking lacking things of yourself and blaming yourself for being there without even allowing the man to carry the blame (or what portion is his). At 4 how could I be to blame for what he did!
I cannot understand this thing where an abused person would grow up to do the same. I cannot even in my own private time come up with a single thought or image of sexually molesting a child. Even when I forced myself this morning when reading this thread could I see the image of doing that. I saw a little girl who cried herself to sleep because she hated her secret and she hated herself. What insanity makes a person who lived through h3ll ever put a child through the same? What is that? I can't even begin to understand. Or maybe I can. I could write a research paper on my own dang life. But it couldn't be completed because I'm not there yet and some of you have witnessed some of my brokenness and were generous of heart towards me not to announce it. You do know I love you for that I hope.
So the potential to abuse is there as facts attest. It makes no sense to me at all.
I'm one of those people Satori and you know quiet well I could never hurt a child. And I knew it wasn't me you spoke of but I'm still one of those people so I've spoken yet some more. And I know there are real people that fit that description so if we say let's just kill them we'd be killing someone like myself that shows their brokenness differently than me.
But I still can't imagine it. How could I put a little child through what I lived through. My gawd I can't get there!
I would not offer the "safe harbor" to a caught and convicted molester. I have no problem with harsh punishment. This isn't about feeling their pain and letting them off. It's about healing and prevention. There are plenty of people who feel the urge to steal, kill, and destroy, and they don't do it. They find the strength, they do what they need to do.
Some people aren't strong enough on their own. BEFORE they strike, if they can find a support system - might be an electronic monitor of some kind, or some kind of chemical treatment - it might make all the difference.
Sure, those people get to live their lives among us, and we might not know who they are. Sorry but that happens now, and those people are unsupervised and teetering on the brink, some of them. Wouldn't it be worth trying to save some of the kids who might otherwise fall prey?
The requirement would be that they'd never committed a pedophile crime. But if they had, there would still be consideration (mercy of some kind) for having turned themselves in, based not on the past, but upon the future for which they'd taken responsibility by stopping themselves.
It's not about revenge, which feels good and changes little, but about prevention, which you can't feel but makes all the difference. It doesn't apply to every case you can imagine. I'll admit, it's a deal with the devil, but on the other hand, it's a deal the devil might not like either.
This is a pipe dream, obviously.
--
On a side note, I remember excathedra being censured recently without appeal for raising this subject in pretty frank terms, and yet her comment might be tame by comparison with this thread. Nice to see the board has returned somewhat to it's former stature, for the time being.
I know it may seem I'm hung up on this but I'm convinced there is more abuse hidden in our families than all the reported abusers combined (since first reported case). What of all of them?
We need to know what the signs are in our children.
And we need to be willing to lose a friend because we were wrong. You could be right!
And forget about our children's innocence...that's a freaking joke.....we have to teach them this crap so they know if it happens it's not them that caused it and to seek help....makes you wonder if you just willingly raped their minds....but what the h3ll options have we?....lock our children away from the world so then they become broken for that as well....I'm having a really rough spot of this and should have not posted probably.
Kathy, I wish we didn't have to talk about this stuff either. But we do and we have to look at it honestly and we have to prepare our children.
Abusers are about power and control. We can teach our children to have their own power and control by knowing what to do, knowing they can tell, knowing they'll be believed, knowing it's NOT their fault, etc.
I wish we could tell them that if it happens to them the bad person will be sent away for ever too.
It's very difficult to talk about, must be absolute horrific for adult victims of this brutality, bless your hearts.
{{Chatty}} So sorry this thread is dredging up hurtful memories for you. Thank you for your openness with us.
Yes, Satori, I agree--it probably will never happen, but your idea of a preventive "safe harbor" seems sound to me. I'm sure that when some of these people feel twisted urges, before they ever act on them, they might be able to recognize that what they're feeling would bring harm to a child if carried out. If they had somewhere to go or some way to to get the help to stop them, that would be a good thing.
Pond, I've heard of cases like that before, where the molester has begged for castration to keep him from committing the same crime again and has been refused. I find that infuriating, like the goofballs picketing outside a prison when someone's about to be executed, begging for mercy that the person did not seek and does not want.
I don't know, Kathy, about what people will do to the grandpas. But you're right--so often that's who it is, not some stranger off the street, but a grandpa or an uncle or a favorite neighbor. It's such a puzzling mental zig that shoulda been a zag. I can't for the life of me comprehend it.
I would not offer the "safe harbor" to a caught and convicted molester. I have no problem with harsh punishment. This isn't about feeling their pain and letting them off. It's about healing and prevention. There are plenty of people who feel the urge to steal, kill, and destroy, and the don't do it. They find the strength, they do what they need to do.
Some people aren't strong enough on their own. BEFORE they strike, if they can find a support system - might be an electronic monitor of some kind, or some kind of chemical treatment - it might make all the difference.
Sure, those people get to live their lives among us, and we might not know who they are. Sorry but that happens now, and those people are unsupervised and teetering on the brink, some of them. Wouldn't it be worth trying to save some of the kids who might otherwise fall prey?
The requirement would be that they'd never committed a pedophile crime. But if they had, there would still be consideration (mercy of some kind) for having turned themselves in, based not on the past, but upon the future for which they'd taken responsibility by stopping themselves.
It's not about revenge, which feels good and changes little, but about prevention, which you can't feel but makes all the difference. It doesn't apply to every case you can imagine. I'll admit, it's a deal with the devil, but on the other hand, it's a deal the devil might not like either. (emphasis added by C.U.F.)
This is a pipe dream, obviously.
--
On a side note, I remember excathedra being censured recently without appeal for raising this subject in pretty frank terms, and yet her comment might be tame by comparison with this thread. Nice to see the board has returned somewhat to it's former stature, for the time being.
I respectively disagree with your statement that I have placed in BOLD, above.
Without derailing this thread, capitol punishment will stop the crime from happening again. No breathing criminal - no new crime. Knowing there is capitol punishment will deter the crime - but how can you effectively measure this? Do people turn themselves in for *thinking* about killing someone, but didn't because they didn't want to be sentenced to death?
Preventative measures can most certainly be taken - education, safety measures, parental watchfullness, federal/state programs, checking the offender database in your area, reporting suspicious activity to authorities, etc., but when you're talking about a hard core group, such as what exie wrote about when she started this thread, then I can only imagine - I can only hope - that they fry. Yes, fry them! ALL!
Remember the Jeffrey Curley case? In 1997, a 10 year old boy from MA was kidnapped, raped, murdered and dropped into a stream in ME. Two men were convicted of this horrific crime. That Nov., MA came ONE VOTE short of putting capitol punishment back on the books! Now these two monsters are in a high security prison (they had the snot beat out of them before their first arraignment - I hope it was only the beginning.)
Yes, different case all together - there was a murder. But do you really think people wouldn't have been so passionate about this if it wasn't for the molestation - the rape - as well.
See exhibit B: The Roman Catholic Church scandal. Far less ugly than this internet group - but horrific, nonetheless - after all, one "father" was killed while in prison shortly after he was sentenced. The man who killed him was already serving life - he was considered a hero for his actions as this former priest was considered to be monster.
After careful consideration of the explicit wordings I applied earlier, I realize they might be offensive to some; not my goal. I apologize and thereby remove that part of my post. Those of you who have suffered such horrors don't need to be reminded of same, as Linda suggested. My apologies to those of you who've lived this.
As well since we live in the real world, you don't need me to give you the details of what goes on.
I've been delivered beyond description of things that have happened in my life. Yet I knew some still remained that I would not let go of. Life had been lived sufficiently enough not to change it. Well the day of personal reckoning arrived along with the timing of this thread. And I wrestled with the openness knowing it reveals me and not that I'm a stranger here in that regard but this is not easy to lay before anyone who desires to read it.
Linda and Shell I love you both for your comfort towards me.
Shell thank you for your words and as vivid as they were they didn't touch my real ones sweet girl so you didn't hurt me in so doing. Perhaps you shocked some folks into seeing if it gendered something in them. And I don't mean the folks of this board. I mean the ones on the outside that read us for whatever reason. If that got them hot then they would fit into the category of seeking help if available.
I lied in part earlier. I said my mother didn't know to even look for something in a 4 year old. But when I was 5 she found me doing things a 5 year old shouldn't do to their bodies and she scolded me. Was that sufficient oversight? Please don't answer me because I know the answer but her life was altered the moment I was conceived and she was different also. I love her with all that I am. I had no father to love me and a monster to control me. She was my refuge. I know the answer to my question but I can't bear to see anyone of you say it please I beg of you.
I don't know how to say this but to simply say it and in so doing it may make sense to someone else. And this is so freaking hard to do. When you learn what sexual pleasure feels like as a child it speeds up the process a lifetime. It can make it be a problem for you as odd as that may sound. So take that and put an added mentality of perversion into it and I don't know. I go back to what I said I can't get there.
I must rest. This is beating the crap out of me. Good night.
Chatty - I wrote this big old response to you, well thought out and worded carefully. Then I somehow lost it on my way to posting it. I'll try to re-say it. The choices your mom had back then were different than the choices we moms have today. Let's don't compare apples and oranges. How your mom raised you to be such a loving and kind lady with all she had survived is beyond me. I wouldn't trade places with her for a minute.
I think if your molester grandpa had been put to death for what he did to you, from the moment you understood that he was dead, you would have known he couldn't attack you again. Somewhere in that knowlege is comfort. Sad comfort, but comfort nonetheless.
I'm not really a hard-hearted person looking for excuses to kill people. I was kidnapped and raped at gunpoint when I was a teenager as some sort of message to my then boyfriend. I understand that that rapist became dead shortly after the rape. I can honestly say that I slept better knowing that he could never come and take me away and rape me again. To this day I have no regret that he's dead.
And yes, you're right - we have to be willing to lose "friends" over telling the truth about child molestation. I'm very proud of you for protecting that little girl by telling her mom and risking losing a friend. That's one friendship lost for all the right reasons, on your end.
I once told a friend of my mom's about a molestation. Long story shortened, my mom couldn't live with the fallout from that disclosure, so she broke friendship with the lady and threw me away and pretended not to know the truth. I spent my high school years in foster homes and a group home as a result. My mom spent those years in drunken denial. When I was 18, she killed herself.
I know this pain all too well. My kids never will.
Chas, you're talking about retribution, which is fine. But I'm talking about redemption. Let those who earn retribution receive retribution, and those who earn redemption, redemption.
I've said how, and I've said why, maybe you read through it a little quickly.
Bowtwi, your life had horrors in it and then for your mother to take that action only added to your h3ll no doubt.
And yes I admit if I knew the person was dead and couldn't hurt me anymore that could cause a form of safety in my thinking. But I can speak this way because he is dead. So what of the someone that hurt me that is not dead would I feel safer if he were? I already climbed that Mt Everest so maybe I can't use this example but when I've considered him dead it saddened me. I just don't know how to explain that. But if he were dead because of his actions towards me alone I could not live with that. I don't know how to explain it better. And perhaps it ties to guilt not yet reckoned with.
Thank you for what you said about my mother. I love her so much. And for the words you used to describe me.
This has been hard on us all but you have horrors as part of your growing up that made me cry as I read your post and I knew that information before, still it hurts me so deeply to think of what you went through.
Man oh man what someone else can do to another person's life when they are the stronger of the two.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
i have wonderful sons and a wonderful stepson
what would i feel if anyone of them abused a chid?
kill them and if i ever did it {which i never would} i would hope that someone would kill me to put me out of my misery
kill them kill the kill them
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ChattyKathy
I just can't do this as much as I want to. I've typed and deleted for the past 15 minutes.
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pond
you know I told one of my sons the same thing the other day, it freaked him out. lol it did .
I think I would to, but it really isnt that easy you know, they still have families and they still have a place in our society, it is often still considered mental illness or a family issue. and left in family court. . love is involved and the rights of the child to have parents and the parents with the child.
As far as these freaks on the internet oh my god a "streaming video of a small child being molested live" on the internet.
have mercy have mercy , I tell ya I am getting red fists to. I really belief this problem is alot more common than most of us will ever ever know, it has a power base from somewhere and honestly I do nt think it is all just men involved.
it is sick .
Have any of you heard of false accusation? it does happen . a bitter break-up custody issues.. men have to be careful as well, I told my son about insane women who have so much anger in from their own abuse they get twisted in their mind. Remember that day care in the 80's where every single employee was arrested and convicted of molestation? and in jail for many many years.. fantastic stories of how five year old woul be on airplane when they were molested (while in daycare???) it went through at the time.
they were convicted 6 women and about 4 males. then as the kids got older and away from those pressuring them to compy they rcanted and said NONE of it ever happened. they just wanted to make their mommys and daddys happy and for the ??? to stop!!! the charges where dropped after they had many years in prison for crimes they never did.
If my son was accused I would LOOK into the story and then decide how I would procede I would not neccesarily believe every lunitic accuser in the world.
false accusation does happen as well. so shoot them to?
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bowtwi
Ok, so there is no question about what I'm saying.
Anybody, no matter who, no matter what sex, any man, woman, monkey, goat, any body at all, who molests a child and we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are guilty, that's who I think should be put to death for molesting children.
Now, before we get carried away with what ifs, I'll add that there is a huge difference between a pedophile and children innocently exploring themselves and maybe each other. That's where diligent parenting comes in. WE need to be the experts on OUR children. We need to be watching them and noticing when they become curious about and steering them in decent directions.
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pond
a child who is molested often has problems with sex in their own life Bow tie, they end up having sex very young and with just about anyone.. no boudaries where taught or kept for them. ophra speaks of this often.
the fact it is "dirty little old men" isnt true the persucuters often begin their own illness at a very young age on even younger victims. and it is often dismissed by parents as harmless .. no one wants to think it could be worse...
I was watching tv, about a girl who was molested and she then in turn told other kids to molest other kids and forced them to comply with her wishes. of course she was on tv I doubt she would be stupid enough to admit actual molestation! on tv . but she said that is what she did with her feeling and anger. for a time of course now she is welll.
should she be shot? she was also a victim of this crime and turned others into victims. is it easier because she is a girl in your thoughts? why?
bow tie my answer is no. I do not think they should be killed.
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Shellon
How 'bout just tortured badly enough for long enough that they beg for death?
Would that be a "fair" compromise?
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Abigail
"What if YOUR child became a pedophile as an adult because of a traumatic experience he or she had suffered as a child at the hands of a pedophile?"
It would break my heart beyond repair. I am the mother of two boys and I cannot even begin to imagine the horror of it, nor can I say with a certainty what I would do if the hypothetical were reality. But given the hypothetical and thankfully and hopefully never faced with the reality - I would say kill him and help stop the cycle so more children don't grow up to be just like that.
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pond
what I would like to see is a way to identify them clearly without mistake.
Like a massive tattoo on their face or something. and I would like them tracked and a clear list of where they live in every town with open easy viewing for every single person.
I think we should render them completly and totaly unable to enjoy any type of sex act for the rest of their life. ( cut them or it off )
I would like sever prosecution for those who aid and help them.
any parent who allows them around their children without the courts approval and restrictions would also be prosecuted. and lose their children.
that would make parents think about who they are leaving the kids with, or around.
I think killing them outright would not stop it , this is a behaviour we do not understand fully why or who will engage.
not all victims abuse and not all abusers have been abused .
killing them off would not stop it altogether. and it could lessen the reporting of it .
just like the act of murder I think this crime comes in degrees and should be treated as such and yes some should die .
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ChattyKathy
What a tough one as our dear hostess would bear out. The passion that fuels this subject makes it more difficult on us all. I can't look at it through some of your eyes that weren't sexually abused as a child. What did it feel like to grow up as a young girl or boy and not look at every day with the potential of something more because as you grew so did the dynamics of the situation? Or is that selfish of me? Haven't each one of you lived through some sort of personal h3ll? But this one is different isn't it? Because it's our children and grandchildren that we see when we read these accounts and it boils us inside until we feel we could with our own strength and nothing more kill someone.
All I can do is be honest and say I could not kill a man that has hurt me. I would give anything not to have the memories but his death would only make my life harder. And because I can't see his death there has to be another way to assure that he never hurt another. And I don't know what. (he is dead btw)
Pond wrote: ...a child who is molested often has problems with sex in their own life Bow tie, they end up having sex very young and with just about anyone.. no boudaries where taught or kept for them. ophra speaks of this often..
I can only speak experientially on that one. I was engaged during a good piece of high school and married a month after graduation. Not all of us took on lovers.
You can also grow up thinking lacking things of yourself and blaming yourself for being there without even allowing the man to carry the blame (or what portion is his). At 4 how could I be to blame for what he did!
I cannot understand this thing where an abused person would grow up to do the same. I cannot even in my own private time come up with a single thought or image of sexually molesting a child. Even when I forced myself this morning when reading this thread could I see the image of doing that. I saw a little girl who cried herself to sleep because she hated her secret and she hated herself. What insanity makes a person who lived through h3ll ever put a child through the same? What is that? I can't even begin to understand. Or maybe I can. I could write a research paper on my own dang life. But it couldn't be completed because I'm not there yet and some of you have witnessed some of my brokenness and were generous of heart towards me not to announce it. You do know I love you for that I hope.
So the potential to abuse is there as facts attest. It makes no sense to me at all.
I'm one of those people Satori and you know quiet well I could never hurt a child. And I knew it wasn't me you spoke of but I'm still one of those people so I've spoken yet some more. And I know there are real people that fit that description so if we say let's just kill them we'd be killing someone like myself that shows their brokenness differently than me.
But I still can't imagine it. How could I put a little child through what I lived through. My gawd I can't get there!
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
pond i think the tattoo idea is wonderful! i really do
to bad it won't ever happen.
ya know we can't infringe upon thier rights yadda yadda yadda
but i would love to see it happen
does the scarllet letter ring a bell?
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satori001
I would not offer the "safe harbor" to a caught and convicted molester. I have no problem with harsh punishment. This isn't about feeling their pain and letting them off. It's about healing and prevention. There are plenty of people who feel the urge to steal, kill, and destroy, and they don't do it. They find the strength, they do what they need to do.
Some people aren't strong enough on their own. BEFORE they strike, if they can find a support system - might be an electronic monitor of some kind, or some kind of chemical treatment - it might make all the difference.
Sure, those people get to live their lives among us, and we might not know who they are. Sorry but that happens now, and those people are unsupervised and teetering on the brink, some of them. Wouldn't it be worth trying to save some of the kids who might otherwise fall prey?
The requirement would be that they'd never committed a pedophile crime. But if they had, there would still be consideration (mercy of some kind) for having turned themselves in, based not on the past, but upon the future for which they'd taken responsibility by stopping themselves.
It's not about revenge, which feels good and changes little, but about prevention, which you can't feel but makes all the difference. It doesn't apply to every case you can imagine. I'll admit, it's a deal with the devil, but on the other hand, it's a deal the devil might not like either.
This is a pipe dream, obviously.
--
On a side note, I remember excathedra being censured recently without appeal for raising this subject in pretty frank terms, and yet her comment might be tame by comparison with this thread. Nice to see the board has returned somewhat to it's former stature, for the time being.
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ChattyKathy
How do we deal with the grandfathers that no one turns in?
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ChattyKathy
I know it may seem I'm hung up on this but I'm convinced there is more abuse hidden in our families than all the reported abusers combined (since first reported case). What of all of them?
We need to know what the signs are in our children.
And we need to be willing to lose a friend because we were wrong. You could be right!
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ChattyKathy
And forget about our children's innocence...that's a freaking joke.....we have to teach them this crap so they know if it happens it's not them that caused it and to seek help....makes you wonder if you just willingly raped their minds....but what the h3ll options have we?....lock our children away from the world so then they become broken for that as well....I'm having a really rough spot of this and should have not posted probably.
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Shellon
Kathy, I wish we didn't have to talk about this stuff either. But we do and we have to look at it honestly and we have to prepare our children.
Abusers are about power and control. We can teach our children to have their own power and control by knowing what to do, knowing they can tell, knowing they'll be believed, knowing it's NOT their fault, etc.
I wish we could tell them that if it happens to them the bad person will be sent away for ever too.
It's very difficult to talk about, must be absolute horrific for adult victims of this brutality, bless your hearts.
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pond
We had a guy in prison for rape many rapes on children.
he beged and pleaded with the state of new to cut his part off for good.
he said he will certainly do it again and again .
the civil liberals fought him like a dog and stopped any such action from taking place , WHY?
they said the state had no say in such , as it was not a medical problem.
they won .
the guy wanted surgery to prevent it from ever ever happening again and the state said he had no right to have an uneeded surgery .
they can not or will not be put on medicine or have surgery in NY , it is against the law .
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Linda Z
{{Chatty}} So sorry this thread is dredging up hurtful memories for you. Thank you for your openness with us.
Yes, Satori, I agree--it probably will never happen, but your idea of a preventive "safe harbor" seems sound to me. I'm sure that when some of these people feel twisted urges, before they ever act on them, they might be able to recognize that what they're feeling would bring harm to a child if carried out. If they had somewhere to go or some way to to get the help to stop them, that would be a good thing.
Pond, I've heard of cases like that before, where the molester has begged for castration to keep him from committing the same crime again and has been refused. I find that infuriating, like the goofballs picketing outside a prison when someone's about to be executed, begging for mercy that the person did not seek and does not want.
I don't know, Kathy, about what people will do to the grandpas. But you're right--so often that's who it is, not some stranger off the street, but a grandpa or an uncle or a favorite neighbor. It's such a puzzling mental zig that shoulda been a zag. I can't for the life of me comprehend it.
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ChasUFarley
I respectively disagree with your statement that I have placed in BOLD, above.
Without derailing this thread, capitol punishment will stop the crime from happening again. No breathing criminal - no new crime. Knowing there is capitol punishment will deter the crime - but how can you effectively measure this? Do people turn themselves in for *thinking* about killing someone, but didn't because they didn't want to be sentenced to death?
Preventative measures can most certainly be taken - education, safety measures, parental watchfullness, federal/state programs, checking the offender database in your area, reporting suspicious activity to authorities, etc., but when you're talking about a hard core group, such as what exie wrote about when she started this thread, then I can only imagine - I can only hope - that they fry. Yes, fry them! ALL!
Remember the Jeffrey Curley case? In 1997, a 10 year old boy from MA was kidnapped, raped, murdered and dropped into a stream in ME. Two men were convicted of this horrific crime. That Nov., MA came ONE VOTE short of putting capitol punishment back on the books! Now these two monsters are in a high security prison (they had the snot beat out of them before their first arraignment - I hope it was only the beginning.)
Yes, different case all together - there was a murder. But do you really think people wouldn't have been so passionate about this if it wasn't for the molestation - the rape - as well.
See exhibit B: The Roman Catholic Church scandal. Far less ugly than this internet group - but horrific, nonetheless - after all, one "father" was killed while in prison shortly after he was sentenced. The man who killed him was already serving life - he was considered a hero for his actions as this former priest was considered to be monster.
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Shellon
After careful consideration of the explicit wordings I applied earlier, I realize they might be offensive to some; not my goal. I apologize and thereby remove that part of my post. Those of you who have suffered such horrors don't need to be reminded of same, as Linda suggested. My apologies to those of you who've lived this.
As well since we live in the real world, you don't need me to give you the details of what goes on.
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ChattyKathy
I've been delivered beyond description of things that have happened in my life. Yet I knew some still remained that I would not let go of. Life had been lived sufficiently enough not to change it. Well the day of personal reckoning arrived along with the timing of this thread. And I wrestled with the openness knowing it reveals me and not that I'm a stranger here in that regard but this is not easy to lay before anyone who desires to read it.
Linda and Shell I love you both for your comfort towards me.
Shell thank you for your words and as vivid as they were they didn't touch my real ones sweet girl so you didn't hurt me in so doing. Perhaps you shocked some folks into seeing if it gendered something in them. And I don't mean the folks of this board. I mean the ones on the outside that read us for whatever reason. If that got them hot then they would fit into the category of seeking help if available.
I lied in part earlier. I said my mother didn't know to even look for something in a 4 year old. But when I was 5 she found me doing things a 5 year old shouldn't do to their bodies and she scolded me. Was that sufficient oversight? Please don't answer me because I know the answer but her life was altered the moment I was conceived and she was different also. I love her with all that I am. I had no father to love me and a monster to control me. She was my refuge. I know the answer to my question but I can't bear to see anyone of you say it please I beg of you.
I don't know how to say this but to simply say it and in so doing it may make sense to someone else. And this is so freaking hard to do. When you learn what sexual pleasure feels like as a child it speeds up the process a lifetime. It can make it be a problem for you as odd as that may sound. So take that and put an added mentality of perversion into it and I don't know. I go back to what I said I can't get there.
I must rest. This is beating the crap out of me. Good night.
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Shellon
(((Kathy)))
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bowtwi
Chatty - I wrote this big old response to you, well thought out and worded carefully. Then I somehow lost it on my way to posting it. I'll try to re-say it. The choices your mom had back then were different than the choices we moms have today. Let's don't compare apples and oranges. How your mom raised you to be such a loving and kind lady with all she had survived is beyond me. I wouldn't trade places with her for a minute.
I think if your molester grandpa had been put to death for what he did to you, from the moment you understood that he was dead, you would have known he couldn't attack you again. Somewhere in that knowlege is comfort. Sad comfort, but comfort nonetheless.
I'm not really a hard-hearted person looking for excuses to kill people. I was kidnapped and raped at gunpoint when I was a teenager as some sort of message to my then boyfriend. I understand that that rapist became dead shortly after the rape. I can honestly say that I slept better knowing that he could never come and take me away and rape me again. To this day I have no regret that he's dead.
And yes, you're right - we have to be willing to lose "friends" over telling the truth about child molestation. I'm very proud of you for protecting that little girl by telling her mom and risking losing a friend. That's one friendship lost for all the right reasons, on your end.
I once told a friend of my mom's about a molestation. Long story shortened, my mom couldn't live with the fallout from that disclosure, so she broke friendship with the lady and threw me away and pretended not to know the truth. I spent my high school years in foster homes and a group home as a result. My mom spent those years in drunken denial. When I was 18, she killed herself.
I know this pain all too well. My kids never will.
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satori001
Chas, you're talking about retribution, which is fine. But I'm talking about redemption. Let those who earn retribution receive retribution, and those who earn redemption, redemption.
I've said how, and I've said why, maybe you read through it a little quickly.
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ChattyKathy
Bowtwi, your life had horrors in it and then for your mother to take that action only added to your h3ll no doubt.
And yes I admit if I knew the person was dead and couldn't hurt me anymore that could cause a form of safety in my thinking. But I can speak this way because he is dead. So what of the someone that hurt me that is not dead would I feel safer if he were? I already climbed that Mt Everest so maybe I can't use this example but when I've considered him dead it saddened me. I just don't know how to explain that. But if he were dead because of his actions towards me alone I could not live with that. I don't know how to explain it better. And perhaps it ties to guilt not yet reckoned with.
Thank you for what you said about my mother. I love her so much. And for the words you used to describe me.
This has been hard on us all but you have horrors as part of your growing up that made me cry as I read your post and I knew that information before, still it hurts me so deeply to think of what you went through.
Man oh man what someone else can do to another person's life when they are the stronger of the two.
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