now the kids are safe, do you think these were their own children????
On March 9, Winebrenner, who occasionally served as host of the chat room, purged her computer of pornographic images using widely available commercial software, according to the indictment.
The next day she also "discussed with the administrators of the chat room, through online communications in the chat room, a contingency plan for the continuation of the chat room in the event that she were to be arrested," the indictment states
i didn't know a female was one of the sick monsters
i read the part about the littlest baby girl. words fail me
i read the part about the littlest baby girl. words fail me
:( Yeah, it's such unbelievable ........I dunno. Here in Michigan we've got a case of a 7 month old baby who died from sepsis after being sexually assaulted by his uncle. SEVEN MONTHS old. The little baby had been assaulted by his uncle, who was his babysitter. The damage of course was so severe that this sweet boy had such injury inside his body that massive infection roared through his body and killed him.
A person who penetrates a seven month old baby 'sexually' and I use that word lightly, where do we as a society put that in our brains?
Taking even both testicles is too easy for this son of a bitch.
I'm not alone in this experiential knowledge I realize but when you're introduced to that world at 4 as I was, and again I know others can speak experientially as well, you just can't imagine what that does to your world. And that doesn't include the continuance of it for many years to follow.
No time now and to be honest best that way. This one is very hard on me. And I know I'm not alone in that.
I don`t understand it....These people need to NEVER see the light of day again ...not just the ones that perpetrated these atrocities...but the people who participated in the web sight as well.
There is something irreparably broken in these people that could destroy for their own pleasure ... and like rabid dogs....I am all for ridding the planet of these viscious destructive animals.
Chatty, I am so sorry....Shell, I am speachless, I wish that I hadn`t read these disturbing accounts :( ...it is a sick world that we live in.
They say that true pedophilia is an actual sexual preference, like heterosexual and homosexual. (Or so I've read in a couple of sources). As such, it is about as curable as heterosexuality or homosexuality.
Therefore, for their own good, they need to be locked away permanently.
Indeed Mark, pedophiles are usually, but not always, unable to function sexually with an adult; only kids will do it for them. And they do need to stay put away IF they ever get put away.
Pedophiles that were studied and had the guts to tell it true say that they know they can never ever be rehabilitated, will re-offend, if given access to kids.
Just a little bit of my recent research for a Final Paper. Credit New York Daily News
" So, is it likely that an offender would do it again?
A review of studies of repeat offending - recidivism - by sex offenders shows that up to 55 percent would molest a child again within five years after the offense. One study of 232 pedophiles showed they had molested an average of 76 children each. Those in jail have usually committed more offenses than they were convicted for.
Repeat offenses are higher for those who offended before, began sexual offenses at an early age, and targeted male victims.
One research study showed that the strongest predictor of repeat offenses was performance on a test of sexual deviance. A group of sex offenders were shown slides of children while measuring their degree of arousal as determined by their erection. Those who showed the strongest sexual arousal when shown the pictures of children were most likely to sexually abuse children again.
Can they be cured?
Pedophiles rarely seek professional help to stop their behavior, especially since the behavior is a source of pleasure and - as mentioned above - problems are seen as stemming from society and not their fault. They usually only come to attention when they commit an act, like logging onto internet kiddie porn sites, that gets them reported, caught, and brought to court.
A number of treatments for child sex abusers have been tried.
One medical approach uses surgery or drugs to reduce the level of male hormone testosterone with the hope of reducing sexual as well as aggressive behavior. Surgical castration is rare, but chemical castration - the use of antiandrogen drugs that have been called "erotic tranquilizers" - has had some success. Yet there are drawbacks, considering side effects, offenders not taking their meds, and symptoms returning.
Another drug-related approach is the use of antidepressant medications that have a side-effect of decreased sex drive for some people, and have shown some success in abating obsessive-compulsive behaviors regarding thoughts or acts regarding sex with kids.
Various types of therapies are intended to increase the perpetrator's sense of self-control, the way AA and similar 12-step programs help alcoholics and other addicts refrain from drinking or their other addictions. Participants must admit their helplessness, avoid tempting situations, and learn to delay gratification.
In cognitive-behavioral therapy - the most common treatment approach, sometimes in combination with medication - perpetrators are taught social skills, assertiveness and sex education aimed to increase appropriate social behavior. Therapy involves correcting false beliefs that children enjoy it, that the assault "just happened," that the experience is good for the child, or that the child wanted it.
In one desensitization technique designed to make offenders associate unpleasant consequences with their unacceptable act, offenders are told to visualize a deviant fantasy (seeing young faces) and then a highly negative event (injured genitals, being approached by a policeman).
More controversial has been other forms of avoidance conditioning, where offenders were given electric shocks when shown pictures of children in order to make an attraction to children decidedly unpleasant. Another approach towards the same goal made offenders stimulate themselves to exhaustion and pain while viewing slides of children.
Do the treatments work?
The outlook for success of treatment or rehabilitation is "guarded," since even after intensive treatment, unacceptable urges can persist. But treatment is better than no treatment - a review of the studies show that 27 percent of untreated sex offenders repeated offenses, compared to 19 percent of those who were treated.
Hormonal treatments and cognitive-behavior therapy worked equally well, but the latter has advantages since a large proportion of offenders refuse, or discontinue, hormone treatment".
The DSM IV diagnostic manual offers up some valuable informaion on this as well.
DSM-IV Criteria for Pedophilia, used by the American Psychology Association:
"Over a period of at least six months, recurrent, intense, sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 or younger).
Has the person had repeated fantasies or urges about engaging in sexual activity with a child generally 13 years or younger, or has he actually had sexual encounters with a child? If a psychiatrist sees an individual who has engaged in sexual contact with a child, the diagnosis of pedophilia should be strongly considered. (An individual who committed a single act of molestation while under the influence of drugs, for example, but who had not intentionally targeted a child and was unaware of the victim's age, would not receive the diagnosis. However, this of course in no way diminishes the seriousness of the act of molestation.) A person need not have actual sexual contact with a child to be diagnosed with pedophilia. A person who is preoccupied with sexual urges and fantasies that disturb his functioning (that is, negatively affect his relations with others or impair his ability to work effectively) could also be diagnosed as having pedophilia, even without ever engaging in a sex act with a child.
The fantasies, sexual urges or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning.
Is the problem clinically significant? That is, has it caused "significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning?" (Note: The same criterion is applied throughout the DSM-IV to other mental illnesses.) Under this criterion, a sexual encounter with a child constitutes "clinical significance."
To make a DSM-IV diagnosis, the psychiatrist assesses the individual for either clinically significant distress or clinically significant impairment. Most individuals with psychiatric symptoms experience a subjective sense of distress that may include feelings such as pain, anguish, dysphoria (unpleasant mood), shame, embarrassment or guilt. However, there are numerous situations in which the individual has symptoms or exhibits behaviors that do not cause any subjective sense of distress, but nonetheless would be judged "clinically significant" and warrant a diagnosis of a mental disorder if they come to the attention of a psychiatrist. In such situations, this judgment is based on whether the presentation causes significant impairment in one or more areas of functioning, including social, relational, occupational and academic functioning. For example, it is well recognized that many individuals who are experiencing serious problems related to substance abuse (e.g., violent behavior, poor work or poor school performance due to alcohol or other drug use) deny that their substance abuse is causing them any distress. Such individuals would be given a diagnosis of substance dependence or substance abuse, in spite of their denial, if the psychiatrist determines that these substance-induced problems are causing significant impairment. Similarly, many individuals who act on their pedophiliac urges claim that their behavior is nonproblematic and may even claim it is "beneficial" to the child. Nonetheless, the DSM-IV would consider such individuals to have pedophilia because, by definition, acting on pedophiliac urges is considered to be an impairment in functioning.
The person is at least age 16 years and at least five years older than the child or children in Criterion A. Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13- year-old.
Is the person at least 16 years old and at least five years older than the child who is the object of his fantasies or activities? Psychiatrists must use judgment when evaluating a person in late adolescence who is engaged in a single ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old. Although such a person might not be considered as having pedophilia, such relationships often lead to other psychological, medical (e.g., sexually transmitted disease, pregnancy), social and family problems and should be strongly discouraged".
This is the criteria used when applying therapy in a controlled environment.
The part that gets me is what it does to the child, never mind the perp. There is something that happens to a child, a breech of his/her sanity, when s/he is so violated. To find out that the grown ups in the world have the power and control to hurt in such a way fractures their safety, shatters their confidance and they never ever ever forget, even though they will often put it in the basement of their mind, nail shut the door, seal it and plan to never open that again.
What frosts my flakes is that as a future therapist, can I really look a child in the eye, after s/he's been so attacked by a grown up, and tell him/her that the grown up has rights. Or look at the parent of same child, who's so heartbroken over their child's pain that they can not function and tell them that the offender might be punished, might not. In the helping profession, we are bound by the 'rules' of helping everyone, including the offender.
They are sick and should have something done to them.
I vote for covering their body in honey and place them next to a fire ant hill for a while then lock them up and throw away the key.
I don't know what I would do but I do think that it is a wakeup call for our sociecty to stop truning their eyes away from the mess and thinking it will never happen to their kids.
This damage can never be undone. The only logical action is to make the cost higher than the pay. We need to send a clear message that people who molest our babies will be killed. Not coddled. Not counseled. Not understood. Killed. There's no reason to house and feed these monsters.
Society needs to rid ourselves of these people. Plain and simple. There would be a whole lot less of this torture of our babies in the name of pleasuring someone if we all knew that anyone caught doing it would be killed.
I say kill 'em all (those we know for sure are guilty). At the very least, cane the bass turds so they can't walk properly for the remainder of their lives. Their victims are affected for the rest of their lives, so it sounds on the way to fair to give these horrible freaks at least a taste of what they've done to their victims.
dmill has a good idea, I think,
I vote for a rusty knife, positioned to do the most damage.
and after *swiping* the area, simply say "Go, and sin no more."
(If they can't walk from the pain, too damm bad.)
<_< <_<
(oh -- did I mention that this was only if they escaped the chair??
I also like dek's idea.
I vote for covering their body in honey and place them next to a fire ant hill for a while then lock them up and throw away the key.
but I wouldn't house & feed them afterwards - I'd cut their entire genitalia off and let them bleed to death from there. Or some variation of this...
Those children deserve to at least know that rapist won't be near them ever again! We need to protect our children!
Re:"... have never even been in a fight in my life
but i would be glad to pull the triger...sell lotto tks for the chance ti pull the triger."
Naw naw.. you do the double whammy on 'em. Not just castration because that just takes away desire. You also emasculate them...cut the dillywhacker off flush with the skin. Then for the final insult... you throw 'em in prison... into the general population. Let 'em be the bit*ch for the entire White Aryan Brotherhood. And then let it be widely known what the poor sucker's (literally) fate is... as BIG TIME disincentive to anyone else with similar proclivities comptemplating similar actions.
I don't mean to take over your thread excath but I need to talk a little more.
The man that began my sexual abuse was my dad's dad and since I'd been a bastard child born from a rape to my mother I really wasn't his kin after all. (yeah, like that matters at all I know)
He was a kindly type of man. A pillar in the community and church and all seemed oblivious to the man I knew.
From the first time he violated me until I had the courage to stop him at 9 he was always aroused when around me. His wife was a miserable person and it's doubtful they had anything to do with each other. Besides he made sure I was readily around for projects or special trips away from home.
It was like I was alone in the world. No one knew what he did and I believed they wouldn't have cared anyway. He had told me I was special but others wouldn't understand.
I never talked to my cousins to see if they had exposure to it. I could never have let them know it took me that long to get the courage to stop him.
I can't believe it was just me though. Even though I was the one he seemed to include in his plans I just can't believe it was only me. He was sick, it wasn't my fault. And you've no idea how I have struggled with that and in fact it is my present efforts to purge some things that has brought it to the point I can't hide it away anymore.
I wouldn't have wanted him dead. But he shouldn't have been allowed to just walk around and live like everyone else when in private he was destroying my childhood.
Did you know that when you introduce a child to sex their bodies will in time respond to it? That may have been just a little too open.
I don't know the statistics but I understand that most "predators" were at one time abused themselves.
Not everyone abused becomes an abuser. Not every abuser was abused.
But today we hate these men for what they've done, and we love the children who've been so harmed.
In 15 or 20 years, those victims will yield the next wave of predators. Will we then hate them, and only love the next wave of victims? Should we round up the kids and punish them now, because statistically many will "go bad" later?
There are reasons few of these people seek help. First, they probably don't see the harm. They rationalize. "Sex feels good." "Our culture is repressed, it's natural to express love in every form." "This is the way God made them."
The DO know they will be reported, stigmatized, persecuted. In the face of so much risk, they still do what they do, but hide it. And there are their enablers, too weak and ashamed to turn them in, usually because it's in the family. So the child is sacrificed.
I'm not saying I don't harbor a smoldering rage toward any adult who would exploit a child that way, and like any other parent, I would have murderous intentions toward anyone who touched my own child.
But what if my child had become a victim? Sure, the perp would be dealt with. But what of the ticking time bom that MAY have been set? Do I ignore it, pretend nothing happened, hope for the best? Do I hound my child with threats and supplications not to "turn out like that?" Do I stick her in counseling three days a week until she's 18?
And what if none of it worked? What if, like the innocent bitten by a b-movie vampire, the curse is transferred? Do I then have her "dealt with?"
These questions are unanswerable really. The answers are only found along the way by those who must walk it, and not easily.
But we've been living in a fantasy land of right and wrong, and the requisite blinders have hidden the obvious from our eyes. Abberations from the "norm" are out there, and our moral preconceptions and prejudices serve nothing or no one - not the victims, not the predator compelled to strike for the first time. We aren't really dealing with the problem.
We should not excuse the crime. But it's time the crime stopped being against US, stopped being about our own shock and indignation and outrage, and once again became a crime against the children. And when we remember that, we may remember that those priests were once altar boys, and some of them, maybe many of them, were themselves childhood victims in this cycle of pedophilia.
I'd suggest a law-enforcement sponsored "safe harbor" for people who feel compelled to commit certain kinds of crimes. That place would protect their identity, but track them too, and provide support they need to resist destructive impulses. There would be rules (where to live, etc), and in exchange there would be help.
For those who don't seek help, far more severe retribution for their crimes.
Satori asked "But what if my child had become a victim? Sure, the perp would be dealt with. But what of the ticking time bom that MAY have been set? Do I ignore it, pretend nothing happened, hope for the best? Do I hound my child with threats and supplications not to "turn out like that?" Do I stick her in counseling three days a week until she's 18?
And what if none of it worked? What if, like the innocent bitten by a b-movie vampire, the curse is transferred? Do I then have her "dealt with?"
I'd like to take a stab at answering some of your questions. My childhood was full of sexual molestation. Mine, my sister's and both my brothers. We were unsupervised children. There was nobody there to stop anyone with ill intent. There were plenty of people with ill intent around. Nobody would have been surprised to hear that any of us 4 grew up to be a molester. It was almost expected of us after what we'd been through.
None of us kids become pedophiles. We're all in our 40's now. The closest thing to counseling I ever got was TWI teachings.
When I had children of my own I made it my top priority to make sure that they were never molested. My siblings and I have 10 children among us, ranging in age from 28 - 9. None of them have been molested. Not one. We proactively take action to prevent our kids from being victimized. We're extremely selective, picky even, about who gets to watch our kids on the rare occasion we let them out of our sight. We consider that our jobs as parents. We feel we owe that to them, that security of feeling safe. We treat them with respect. We let them know that they are our priority. We treat them in a manner that makes them want to spend time with us and others that treat them well. And we keep them safe.
No, you can't ignore the ticking time bomb that MAY have been set if the unthinkable happens to your child. You diffuse it with the sweet tenderness of a parent's patient love. You supervise any and all children in your care with diligence -always. You make your kid your priority. You pay close attention to every person that comes in contact with your child. You set the example of what's acceptable contact. That's what's worked for my family.
Maybe counseling works in some cases, but just as I would research diabetes and become an expert on caring for a diabetic child, I would research and become an expert on caring for whatever my child became, even if they became a sexual abuse victim.
Maybe your idea of a law enforcement-sponsored safe haven is the best solution. Maybe not. If it were up to me, starting today, every single proven beyond a shadow of a doubt child molester would be put to death. Eventually we’d be rid of them all.
Concerning this notion that to a child molester, sex with a child FEELS GOOD? No, it really doesn’t. It feels wrong. It feels sneaky. It feels risky and dangerous. At the very least, it feels naughty. It doesn’t just start out FEELING GOOD the first time. It doesn’t FEEL GOOD until one kicks out all those feelings I listed and more. (I’m not talking about the innocent one, the child. I’m talking about the molester. Of course they have to make it feel good to the child if they intend to continue molesting the child and deceiving everyone involved, including the child. The guilt a child may feel for the realization that it feels good to be touched in a sexual manner is misplaced guilt. That’s never a child’s fault. That simply means their body works properly, nothing more.)
"But what if my child had become a victim? Sure, the perp would be dealt with. But what of the ticking time bom that MAY have been set? Do I ignore it, pretend nothing happened, hope for the best? Do I hound my child with threats and supplications not to "turn out like that?" Do I stick her in counseling three days a week until she's 18?
And what if none of it worked? What if, like the innocent bitten by a b-movie vampire, the curse is transferred? Do I then have her "dealt with?""
YES! Because it is only by keeping these people off the streets and away from our children that we stop the cycle, so to speak.
Michigan is currently working on legistlation that would set a MINIMUM 25 year prison sentence for anyone convincted of a CSC I or II against a child under 13. It would further require they be on an electronic tether for life, once released. Its a start.
Two days ago I wrote a letter to my Senator, asking her to support this bill. I explained that there are 4 convicted peodphiles living within 5 blocks of my home. One lives right next to an elementary school, two live right next door to each other, and one is already a repeat offender.
These pervs get to live free, - come and go as they please. As a result, my children cannot ride their bikes around the block without adult supervision. My back yard now has a 6' privacy fence around it with locked gates, as well. Why do the criminals get to live free, while the innocent children must remain locked up?!?
And BowTWI is correct. Because of our criminal injustice system, it is even imparative that parents keep an extremely watchful eye on their children. Like Bow, I am very cautious about who I leave my children with. Only my sister and the parents of two of my son's friends have earned enough of my trust - and that after I did a background check on the parents. Likewise, I don't let my kids wander the neighborhood or go to parks without an adult. It is tough, as my 9 year old certainly feels he should be able to ride is bike to the park to play without me.
This past winter we bought some two-way radios, and I have agreed to let him ride his bike around the block WITH friends, as long as he has the radio so we can stay in contact. Thankfully, as much as a part of him resents my "over-protectiveness", it does also give him a sense of securty. Last weekend he was riding bikes in the alley and radioed me that he was coming in because there was an adult in the alley that was making him nervous. I congratulated him and told him I was very proud of him for trusting his instincts.
But how sad it is, that at 9 he is so painfully aware of the dangers of being a child. How sad that such dangers even exhist!
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Shellon
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/15/childpor...ests/index.html
Pretty sick eh excath. Thank God they caught this many and hopefully it'll be the opening of finding more.
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ChattyKathy
Take one ball. They can live with only one. It will remind them they are imperfect little pieces of crap.
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dmiller
I vote for a rusty knife, positioned to do the most damage.
and after *swiping* the area, simply say "Go, and sin no more."
(If they can't walk from the pain, too damm bad.)
<_< <_<
(oh -- did I mention that this was only if they escaped the chair??)
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excathedra
thank you for the link shell
now the kids are safe, do you think these were their own children????
i didn't know a female was one of the sick monstersi read the part about the littlest baby girl. words fail me
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Shellon
:( Yeah, it's such unbelievable ........I dunno. Here in Michigan we've got a case of a 7 month old baby who died from sepsis after being sexually assaulted by his uncle. SEVEN MONTHS old. The little baby had been assaulted by his uncle, who was his babysitter. The damage of course was so severe that this sweet boy had such injury inside his body that massive infection roared through his body and killed him.
A person who penetrates a seven month old baby 'sexually' and I use that word lightly, where do we as a society put that in our brains?
Taking even both testicles is too easy for this son of a bitch.
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ChattyKathy
I'm not alone in this experiential knowledge I realize but when you're introduced to that world at 4 as I was, and again I know others can speak experientially as well, you just can't imagine what that does to your world. And that doesn't include the continuance of it for many years to follow.
No time now and to be honest best that way. This one is very hard on me. And I know I'm not alone in that.
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rascal
I don`t understand it....These people need to NEVER see the light of day again ...not just the ones that perpetrated these atrocities...but the people who participated in the web sight as well.
There is something irreparably broken in these people that could destroy for their own pleasure ... and like rabid dogs....I am all for ridding the planet of these viscious destructive animals.
Chatty, I am so sorry....Shell, I am speachless, I wish that I hadn`t read these disturbing accounts :( ...it is a sick world that we live in.
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markomalley
Rascal,
They say that true pedophilia is an actual sexual preference, like heterosexual and homosexual. (Or so I've read in a couple of sources). As such, it is about as curable as heterosexuality or homosexuality.
Therefore, for their own good, they need to be locked away permanently.
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Shellon
Indeed Mark, pedophiles are usually, but not always, unable to function sexually with an adult; only kids will do it for them. And they do need to stay put away IF they ever get put away.
Pedophiles that were studied and had the guts to tell it true say that they know they can never ever be rehabilitated, will re-offend, if given access to kids.
Just a little bit of my recent research for a Final Paper. Credit New York Daily News
" So, is it likely that an offender would do it again?
A review of studies of repeat offending - recidivism - by sex offenders shows that up to 55 percent would molest a child again within five years after the offense. One study of 232 pedophiles showed they had molested an average of 76 children each. Those in jail have usually committed more offenses than they were convicted for.
Repeat offenses are higher for those who offended before, began sexual offenses at an early age, and targeted male victims.
One research study showed that the strongest predictor of repeat offenses was performance on a test of sexual deviance. A group of sex offenders were shown slides of children while measuring their degree of arousal as determined by their erection. Those who showed the strongest sexual arousal when shown the pictures of children were most likely to sexually abuse children again.
Can they be cured?
Pedophiles rarely seek professional help to stop their behavior, especially since the behavior is a source of pleasure and - as mentioned above - problems are seen as stemming from society and not their fault. They usually only come to attention when they commit an act, like logging onto internet kiddie porn sites, that gets them reported, caught, and brought to court.
A number of treatments for child sex abusers have been tried.
One medical approach uses surgery or drugs to reduce the level of male hormone testosterone with the hope of reducing sexual as well as aggressive behavior. Surgical castration is rare, but chemical castration - the use of antiandrogen drugs that have been called "erotic tranquilizers" - has had some success. Yet there are drawbacks, considering side effects, offenders not taking their meds, and symptoms returning.
Another drug-related approach is the use of antidepressant medications that have a side-effect of decreased sex drive for some people, and have shown some success in abating obsessive-compulsive behaviors regarding thoughts or acts regarding sex with kids.
Various types of therapies are intended to increase the perpetrator's sense of self-control, the way AA and similar 12-step programs help alcoholics and other addicts refrain from drinking or their other addictions. Participants must admit their helplessness, avoid tempting situations, and learn to delay gratification.
In cognitive-behavioral therapy - the most common treatment approach, sometimes in combination with medication - perpetrators are taught social skills, assertiveness and sex education aimed to increase appropriate social behavior. Therapy involves correcting false beliefs that children enjoy it, that the assault "just happened," that the experience is good for the child, or that the child wanted it.
In one desensitization technique designed to make offenders associate unpleasant consequences with their unacceptable act, offenders are told to visualize a deviant fantasy (seeing young faces) and then a highly negative event (injured genitals, being approached by a policeman).
More controversial has been other forms of avoidance conditioning, where offenders were given electric shocks when shown pictures of children in order to make an attraction to children decidedly unpleasant. Another approach towards the same goal made offenders stimulate themselves to exhaustion and pain while viewing slides of children.
Do the treatments work?
The outlook for success of treatment or rehabilitation is "guarded," since even after intensive treatment, unacceptable urges can persist. But treatment is better than no treatment - a review of the studies show that 27 percent of untreated sex offenders repeated offenses, compared to 19 percent of those who were treated.
Hormonal treatments and cognitive-behavior therapy worked equally well, but the latter has advantages since a large proportion of offenders refuse, or discontinue, hormone treatment".
The DSM IV diagnostic manual offers up some valuable informaion on this as well.
DSM-IV Criteria for Pedophilia, used by the American Psychology Association:
"Over a period of at least six months, recurrent, intense, sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 or younger).
Has the person had repeated fantasies or urges about engaging in sexual activity with a child generally 13 years or younger, or has he actually had sexual encounters with a child? If a psychiatrist sees an individual who has engaged in sexual contact with a child, the diagnosis of pedophilia should be strongly considered. (An individual who committed a single act of molestation while under the influence of drugs, for example, but who had not intentionally targeted a child and was unaware of the victim's age, would not receive the diagnosis. However, this of course in no way diminishes the seriousness of the act of molestation.) A person need not have actual sexual contact with a child to be diagnosed with pedophilia. A person who is preoccupied with sexual urges and fantasies that disturb his functioning (that is, negatively affect his relations with others or impair his ability to work effectively) could also be diagnosed as having pedophilia, even without ever engaging in a sex act with a child.
The fantasies, sexual urges or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning.
Is the problem clinically significant? That is, has it caused "significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning?" (Note: The same criterion is applied throughout the DSM-IV to other mental illnesses.) Under this criterion, a sexual encounter with a child constitutes "clinical significance."
To make a DSM-IV diagnosis, the psychiatrist assesses the individual for either clinically significant distress or clinically significant impairment. Most individuals with psychiatric symptoms experience a subjective sense of distress that may include feelings such as pain, anguish, dysphoria (unpleasant mood), shame, embarrassment or guilt. However, there are numerous situations in which the individual has symptoms or exhibits behaviors that do not cause any subjective sense of distress, but nonetheless would be judged "clinically significant" and warrant a diagnosis of a mental disorder if they come to the attention of a psychiatrist. In such situations, this judgment is based on whether the presentation causes significant impairment in one or more areas of functioning, including social, relational, occupational and academic functioning. For example, it is well recognized that many individuals who are experiencing serious problems related to substance abuse (e.g., violent behavior, poor work or poor school performance due to alcohol or other drug use) deny that their substance abuse is causing them any distress. Such individuals would be given a diagnosis of substance dependence or substance abuse, in spite of their denial, if the psychiatrist determines that these substance-induced problems are causing significant impairment. Similarly, many individuals who act on their pedophiliac urges claim that their behavior is nonproblematic and may even claim it is "beneficial" to the child. Nonetheless, the DSM-IV would consider such individuals to have pedophilia because, by definition, acting on pedophiliac urges is considered to be an impairment in functioning.
The person is at least age 16 years and at least five years older than the child or children in Criterion A. Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13- year-old.
Is the person at least 16 years old and at least five years older than the child who is the object of his fantasies or activities? Psychiatrists must use judgment when evaluating a person in late adolescence who is engaged in a single ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old. Although such a person might not be considered as having pedophilia, such relationships often lead to other psychological, medical (e.g., sexually transmitted disease, pregnancy), social and family problems and should be strongly discouraged".
This is the criteria used when applying therapy in a controlled environment.
The part that gets me is what it does to the child, never mind the perp. There is something that happens to a child, a breech of his/her sanity, when s/he is so violated. To find out that the grown ups in the world have the power and control to hurt in such a way fractures their safety, shatters their confidance and they never ever ever forget, even though they will often put it in the basement of their mind, nail shut the door, seal it and plan to never open that again.
What frosts my flakes is that as a future therapist, can I really look a child in the eye, after s/he's been so attacked by a grown up, and tell him/her that the grown up has rights. Or look at the parent of same child, who's so heartbroken over their child's pain that they can not function and tell them that the offender might be punished, might not. In the helping profession, we are bound by the 'rules' of helping everyone, including the offender.
I hope I'm never that much in need of employment.
Edited by Shellon Fockler-NorthLink to comment
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dek52
They are sick and should have something done to them.
I vote for covering their body in honey and place them next to a fire ant hill for a while then lock them up and throw away the key.
I don't know what I would do but I do think that it is a wakeup call for our sociecty to stop truning their eyes away from the mess and thinking it will never happen to their kids.
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ChasUFarley
They have no excuse for living. A bullet to the head is the best cure for their disease.
If anyone ever touched one of my boys, it would be the last mistake they'd ever make.
Guaranteed.
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bowtwi
This damage can never be undone. The only logical action is to make the cost higher than the pay. We need to send a clear message that people who molest our babies will be killed. Not coddled. Not counseled. Not understood. Killed. There's no reason to house and feed these monsters.
Society needs to rid ourselves of these people. Plain and simple. There would be a whole lot less of this torture of our babies in the name of pleasuring someone if we all knew that anyone caught doing it would be killed.
I say kill 'em all (those we know for sure are guilty). At the very least, cane the bass turds so they can't walk properly for the remainder of their lives. Their victims are affected for the rest of their lives, so it sounds on the way to fair to give these horrible freaks at least a taste of what they've done to their victims.
dmill has a good idea, I think,
I also like dek's idea.
but I wouldn't house & feed them afterwards - I'd cut their entire genitalia off and let them bleed to death from there. Or some variation of this...
Those children deserve to at least know that rapist won't be near them ever again! We need to protect our children!
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
chas has it right
a bullet to the head
i am not a violent person
i have never even been in a fight in my life
but i would be glad to pull the triger
what a great way for the state to make money
sell lotto tks for the chance ti pull the triger
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Sudo
Bowtwi... Chas.. Chef!!!
Re:"... have never even been in a fight in my life
but i would be glad to pull the triger...sell lotto tks for the chance ti pull the triger."
Naw naw.. you do the double whammy on 'em. Not just castration because that just takes away desire. You also emasculate them...cut the dillywhacker off flush with the skin. Then for the final insult... you throw 'em in prison... into the general population. Let 'em be the bit*ch for the entire White Aryan Brotherhood. And then let it be widely known what the poor sucker's (literally) fate is... as BIG TIME disincentive to anyone else with similar proclivities comptemplating similar actions.
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bowtwi
Sudo in 08!
Love them technical terms, eh!
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excathedra
so heartbreaking distrubing beyond words. even if society says sick rather than monster, i do not feel they should ever see the light of day
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ChattyKathy
I don't mean to take over your thread excath but I need to talk a little more.
The man that began my sexual abuse was my dad's dad and since I'd been a bastard child born from a rape to my mother I really wasn't his kin after all. (yeah, like that matters at all I know)
He was a kindly type of man. A pillar in the community and church and all seemed oblivious to the man I knew.
From the first time he violated me until I had the courage to stop him at 9 he was always aroused when around me. His wife was a miserable person and it's doubtful they had anything to do with each other. Besides he made sure I was readily around for projects or special trips away from home.
It was like I was alone in the world. No one knew what he did and I believed they wouldn't have cared anyway. He had told me I was special but others wouldn't understand.
I never talked to my cousins to see if they had exposure to it. I could never have let them know it took me that long to get the courage to stop him.
I can't believe it was just me though. Even though I was the one he seemed to include in his plans I just can't believe it was only me. He was sick, it wasn't my fault. And you've no idea how I have struggled with that and in fact it is my present efforts to purge some things that has brought it to the point I can't hide it away anymore.
I wouldn't have wanted him dead. But he shouldn't have been allowed to just walk around and live like everyone else when in private he was destroying my childhood.
Did you know that when you introduce a child to sex their bodies will in time respond to it? That may have been just a little too open.
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Sudo
Kathy,
Re:"I wouldn't have wanted him dead."
Nawww.... The poor man probably just doesn't understand. Let "The Brotherhood" gently teach him a lesson.
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ChattyKathy
(((you)))
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satori001
I'm a little conflicted about this issue.
I don't know the statistics but I understand that most "predators" were at one time abused themselves.
Not everyone abused becomes an abuser. Not every abuser was abused.
But today we hate these men for what they've done, and we love the children who've been so harmed.
In 15 or 20 years, those victims will yield the next wave of predators. Will we then hate them, and only love the next wave of victims? Should we round up the kids and punish them now, because statistically many will "go bad" later?
There are reasons few of these people seek help. First, they probably don't see the harm. They rationalize. "Sex feels good." "Our culture is repressed, it's natural to express love in every form." "This is the way God made them."
The DO know they will be reported, stigmatized, persecuted. In the face of so much risk, they still do what they do, but hide it. And there are their enablers, too weak and ashamed to turn them in, usually because it's in the family. So the child is sacrificed.
I'm not saying I don't harbor a smoldering rage toward any adult who would exploit a child that way, and like any other parent, I would have murderous intentions toward anyone who touched my own child.
But what if my child had become a victim? Sure, the perp would be dealt with. But what of the ticking time bom that MAY have been set? Do I ignore it, pretend nothing happened, hope for the best? Do I hound my child with threats and supplications not to "turn out like that?" Do I stick her in counseling three days a week until she's 18?
And what if none of it worked? What if, like the innocent bitten by a b-movie vampire, the curse is transferred? Do I then have her "dealt with?"
These questions are unanswerable really. The answers are only found along the way by those who must walk it, and not easily.
But we've been living in a fantasy land of right and wrong, and the requisite blinders have hidden the obvious from our eyes. Abberations from the "norm" are out there, and our moral preconceptions and prejudices serve nothing or no one - not the victims, not the predator compelled to strike for the first time. We aren't really dealing with the problem.
We should not excuse the crime. But it's time the crime stopped being against US, stopped being about our own shock and indignation and outrage, and once again became a crime against the children. And when we remember that, we may remember that those priests were once altar boys, and some of them, maybe many of them, were themselves childhood victims in this cycle of pedophilia.
I'd suggest a law-enforcement sponsored "safe harbor" for people who feel compelled to commit certain kinds of crimes. That place would protect their identity, but track them too, and provide support they need to resist destructive impulses. There would be rules (where to live, etc), and in exchange there would be help.
For those who don't seek help, far more severe retribution for their crimes.
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templelady
My solution
get the Spawn of debul spurts naked
have him grab that little wee wee of his and get it hard
lop off whatever hangs over the end of his hand
tell him to run for the nearest medical facility
if he makes it he lives
if he doesn't, well bears are omnivorous they'll take care of the problem
Oh did I mention that the spot selected for this "rite" is 600 miles form the nearest medical facility?????
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Sudo
Satori,
Re:"But what if my child had become a victim? Sure, the perp would be dealt with."
By whom? By you???? By safe harbor "authorities"?? What we've been talking about is what happens to the perps. Are we mis-communicating perhaps?
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bowtwi
Satori asked "But what if my child had become a victim? Sure, the perp would be dealt with. But what of the ticking time bom that MAY have been set? Do I ignore it, pretend nothing happened, hope for the best? Do I hound my child with threats and supplications not to "turn out like that?" Do I stick her in counseling three days a week until she's 18?
And what if none of it worked? What if, like the innocent bitten by a b-movie vampire, the curse is transferred? Do I then have her "dealt with?"
I'd like to take a stab at answering some of your questions. My childhood was full of sexual molestation. Mine, my sister's and both my brothers. We were unsupervised children. There was nobody there to stop anyone with ill intent. There were plenty of people with ill intent around. Nobody would have been surprised to hear that any of us 4 grew up to be a molester. It was almost expected of us after what we'd been through.
None of us kids become pedophiles. We're all in our 40's now. The closest thing to counseling I ever got was TWI teachings.
When I had children of my own I made it my top priority to make sure that they were never molested. My siblings and I have 10 children among us, ranging in age from 28 - 9. None of them have been molested. Not one. We proactively take action to prevent our kids from being victimized. We're extremely selective, picky even, about who gets to watch our kids on the rare occasion we let them out of our sight. We consider that our jobs as parents. We feel we owe that to them, that security of feeling safe. We treat them with respect. We let them know that they are our priority. We treat them in a manner that makes them want to spend time with us and others that treat them well. And we keep them safe.
No, you can't ignore the ticking time bomb that MAY have been set if the unthinkable happens to your child. You diffuse it with the sweet tenderness of a parent's patient love. You supervise any and all children in your care with diligence -always. You make your kid your priority. You pay close attention to every person that comes in contact with your child. You set the example of what's acceptable contact. That's what's worked for my family.
Maybe counseling works in some cases, but just as I would research diabetes and become an expert on caring for a diabetic child, I would research and become an expert on caring for whatever my child became, even if they became a sexual abuse victim.
Maybe your idea of a law enforcement-sponsored safe haven is the best solution. Maybe not. If it were up to me, starting today, every single proven beyond a shadow of a doubt child molester would be put to death. Eventually we’d be rid of them all.
Concerning this notion that to a child molester, sex with a child FEELS GOOD? No, it really doesn’t. It feels wrong. It feels sneaky. It feels risky and dangerous. At the very least, it feels naughty. It doesn’t just start out FEELING GOOD the first time. It doesn’t FEEL GOOD until one kicks out all those feelings I listed and more. (I’m not talking about the innocent one, the child. I’m talking about the molester. Of course they have to make it feel good to the child if they intend to continue molesting the child and deceiving everyone involved, including the child. The guilt a child may feel for the realization that it feels good to be touched in a sexual manner is misplaced guilt. That’s never a child’s fault. That simply means their body works properly, nothing more.)
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Abigail
"But what if my child had become a victim? Sure, the perp would be dealt with. But what of the ticking time bom that MAY have been set? Do I ignore it, pretend nothing happened, hope for the best? Do I hound my child with threats and supplications not to "turn out like that?" Do I stick her in counseling three days a week until she's 18?
And what if none of it worked? What if, like the innocent bitten by a b-movie vampire, the curse is transferred? Do I then have her "dealt with?""
YES! Because it is only by keeping these people off the streets and away from our children that we stop the cycle, so to speak.
Michigan is currently working on legistlation that would set a MINIMUM 25 year prison sentence for anyone convincted of a CSC I or II against a child under 13. It would further require they be on an electronic tether for life, once released. Its a start.
Two days ago I wrote a letter to my Senator, asking her to support this bill. I explained that there are 4 convicted peodphiles living within 5 blocks of my home. One lives right next to an elementary school, two live right next door to each other, and one is already a repeat offender.
These pervs get to live free, - come and go as they please. As a result, my children cannot ride their bikes around the block without adult supervision. My back yard now has a 6' privacy fence around it with locked gates, as well. Why do the criminals get to live free, while the innocent children must remain locked up?!?
And BowTWI is correct. Because of our criminal injustice system, it is even imparative that parents keep an extremely watchful eye on their children. Like Bow, I am very cautious about who I leave my children with. Only my sister and the parents of two of my son's friends have earned enough of my trust - and that after I did a background check on the parents. Likewise, I don't let my kids wander the neighborhood or go to parks without an adult. It is tough, as my 9 year old certainly feels he should be able to ride is bike to the park to play without me.
This past winter we bought some two-way radios, and I have agreed to let him ride his bike around the block WITH friends, as long as he has the radio so we can stay in contact. Thankfully, as much as a part of him resents my "over-protectiveness", it does also give him a sense of securty. Last weekend he was riding bikes in the alley and radioed me that he was coming in because there was an adult in the alley that was making him nervous. I congratulated him and told him I was very proud of him for trusting his instincts.
But how sad it is, that at 9 he is so painfully aware of the dangers of being a child. How sad that such dangers even exhist!
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