I am so glad I was out by then. LCM has the nerve to wonder how the corps got in debt over the years? Hmm... Let's see: minimum wage pay, either from HQ or on the field, being required to go to every event, every meeting, etc., then medical expenses, etc. - just things in life that TWI never covered. So, what do you do, borrow here, borrow there, to be the good corps person and do all you were expected to do and be at all the events, even if they're half way across the country.
These letters show just how they are so totally out of touch with reality - mindblowing. Its so easy for LCM to sit back and spew when he has no rent, didn't have a real job, money given to him for clothing, college paid for courtesy of TWI for the kids, etc. Its just pathetic.
I think every top leader of TWI, president's cabinet, or people who have been there more than 10years should be required to go "on the field," get housing, a job - what a shock to their system it would be.
These letters are pathetic drivel from someone in total denial about what life is like in the "real world."
I don't understand either, ex10. Ya know what's really sad? I didn't even get involved till 1993 and wasn't really and truly sold out till 1995 or so. Stupid Belle!! Stupid, Stupid Belle!!
Letters like this, hopefully, shed a little more light on the b.s. we were subjected to and how horrible it really was. Hopefully, too, people who can't believe we were afraid to leave can see a little better why.
I am so glad I was out by then. LCM has the nerve to wonder how the corps got in debt over the years? Hmm... Let's see: minimum wage pay, either from HQ or on the field, being required to go to every event, every meeting, etc., then medical expenses, etc. - just things in life that TWI never covered. So, what do you do, borrow here, borrow there, to be the good corps person and do all you were expected to do and be at all the events, even if they're half way across the country.
These letters show just how they are so totally out of touch with reality - mindblowing. Its so easy for LCM to sit back and spew when he has no rent, didn't have a real job, money given to him for clothing, college paid for courtesy of TWI for the kids, etc. Its just pathetic.
I think every top leader of TWI, president's cabinet, or people who have been there more than 10years should be required to go "on the field," get housing, a job - what a shock to their system it would be.
These letters are pathetic drivel from someone in total denial about what life is like in the "real world."
That's why I kicked up a fuss on the "vp and me in wonderland" thread.
vpw himself was facing corps grads, who had travelled to hq on their own dime,
taking time off work (either unpaid or as possibly their ONLY vacation time),
who spent "Corps Week" working for free, assembling the structures for the
next week's ROA, and then had to go home and get back to their lives the
following week. vpw tore them a new one for not staying a second week
and working a SECOND week for free.
Now, they weren't leaving because they WANTED to. If you were twi
(and corps were twi), you WANTED to be at the ROA. They were already RIGHT THERE.
The only reason to leave was that they had obligations that required them
to leave-familial or job-oriented, or they were broke and could not AFFORD
to take off another week and not draw a salary.
vpw, on the other hand, went straight from school into the clergy, where he
lived off his denomination, until he was able to cut-and-paste pfal from
other people's classes, and live off THEIR 10%. He had NO EXPERIENCE
with regular 40-hour work-weeks, salaries, and so on.
lcm went straight from college to the way corps, and spent all his time
after THAT on twi's payroll.
It's pretty nervy to attack people who are giving all they CAN,
just because they can't give MORE.
Not every way corps person was able to act as a complete slave
I realize I'm gonna get jumped on for saying this-and sound like something I'm not-but does anyone remember VPW ever sending out letters like this? With that tone? For me, I doubt it and do not remember any: a major difference in leadership skills.
top.......I'm not sure about any veepee letters, BUT with my own eyes I witnessed veepee's venomous lashings on three different occasions. And, these weren't the little "you screwed up" types............these were rantings, frothing, hardened-eyes, gnashing teeth, character assassinations.
1) A 6th corps guy had fallen asleep on corps night. Veepee started yelling, stomping and swearing at this guy (who had a physical health problem.....some blood sugar/chemical imbalance thing). After about 5 minutes......veepee left the stage in the OSC dining room and went to the back room for about 10 minutes. Craig came out and yelled some more. Finally, vp came back fuming.....and then taught. The next day, the corps guy was sent packing off staff.
2) In the BRC, vp was upfront with about six people who had recently attended that tracker guy's seminar. An 8th corps guy....LEAD type fellow....was outspoken on how incredible this guy and his teaching methods
were at the seminar. In a couple of minutes of talking about the great stuff, vp couldn't take it any longer. Vp yelled, and pointed at this 8th corps guy....said he was possessed with spirits, etc. All of us seated in the BRC were stunned by vp's over-the-top reproof.
3) A nightowl in the way woods, and vp is sharing by the campfire. Crickets chirping in the background, a few fireflys, and a real solemn time with corps sitting at his feet. Anyways..........vp's bodyguard, Jim Crxx forgot to turn his two-way radio down...and the the screeching words broke the silence of the moment. It was classic wierwille.....the venomous anger side that some have never seen. Again, the high volume tear-him-a-new-@$$hole type of situation. Next morning, Jim was gone.
Yep..............vp and me (craiggers), learned his lessons well.
Why oh why did I stay after this........???????????????????????
I was surprised by those letters. Not that I was surprised by the venom and wickedness, but, I was surprised by the typographical errors. Craig must have spelled the word "Crops" for "Corps" at least three times. And to think that he used to rant in residence when people mis-spelled the word. If people would spell it "Corp", or "Corpes", in a letter to him, he would be sure to not only reprove that person for the innacurate spelling, but on a number of occasions, make sure to point it out publicly. I remember one 12th Crops (oops!) Corps fella who I saw one morning in the lobby of Uncle Harry Highrise with his bags all packed. He seemed distraught, and when I asked him where he was going, he replied that Craig had asked him to leave the Corps. When I asked him why, he said that it was because he didn't have the love to spell "Corps" correctly. He was really down in the mouth about it, because, he believed it too. He said he was going to "go and join the Army, I guess". And so, I prayed with him over by the piano, and then I was off to morning teaches in top floor Wierwille.
Now, I would guess that "Crops" was a typo, but really, I don't remember him making errors like that and allowing a letter to get out to the field without making sure that it was written correctly, as if he didn't even write the letter. But I do not doubt that he wrote those, but not only had his wickedness reached new levels since I "heard from" him last, but it seems as if his usual "sharpness" on things like that had diminished also. I think that so much of his accusations took a toll on his thinking.
I think this must be a classic case of what our Lord Jesus once said
I'm particularly appalled by Bob Moynihan's letters.
Bob, if you're peeking in here, you know how much I once loved and respected you. Look at yourself. How can you dole out so much condemnation and parrot that crap that is passed off as God's Word in the Way Ministry today? Reading your words has saddened me greatly.
Side note: Mr. Lingo, the letters weren't scanned in--they were retyped. So it's quite possible the typoes came from our own Belle's nimble fingers and not those of LCM's secretary.
Jonny Lingo, that was MY typing. It started as a typo and then I decided I liked it better that way so I continued.
There weren't any typos in craiggers' letters that I saw, but there was one in Moneyhands'. :blink: And he's just as anal as craiggers was about that kind of thing.
ex10, what's really sad about that letter from Bobby is that the poor guy DID do all the things required of Bobby and was "allowed" back into the fold only to be kicked out yet again to jump through all the hoops again to be able to come back. :(
Last I heard, the poor chap had sold a successful business he built from scratch to go Way Disciple. He needed a place to stay the last week before going out WD and not one person - including all the WC in our area - would allow him to stay with them.
I seem to recall a reaming out that VPW gave a camera operator at PFAL 77: VP had made a move that meant he was going to stand up, but the cameraman didn't catch on in time. VP ripped him a new one in front of everybody.
Those were few and far between, though: nothing like Craig, who I think just liked to hear the sound of his own voice.
But putting it in writing? I had shown one of Craig's letters (I can't remember which one now) to a company president: he was the husband of one of our faithful grads. He could not believe that anyone who had the responsibilty's that LCM did would write and distribute such a thing: he called it a stupid move on about the level with grade school children and nothing a true executive would ever do.
But putting it in writing? I had shown one of Craig's letters (I can't remember which one now) to a company president: he was the husband of one of our faithful grads. He could not believe that anyone who had the responsibilty's that LCM did would write and distribute such a thing: he called it a stupid move on about the level with grade school children and nothing a true executive would ever do.
You didn't show him craiggers' homo-purging letter did you??........the one where craiggers gives sexually explicit terms and how craiggers, if in OT times, "would gladly execute them."
Hell. no..although I would have loved to see his reaction to that! It was probably the loyalty letter: this was after I had left but still had access to some info.
I seem to recall a reaming out that VPW gave a camera operator at PFAL 77: VP had made a move that meant he was going to stand up, but the cameraman didn't catch on in time. VP ripped him a new one in front of everybody.
I remember that Toppie. I think it may have been Advanced Class 79 though. The guy was St*ve W@rga, my Portland Or branch leader that previous year. I remember him being really *%^#*ed about it. He was a guy who was fairly self important, and it really smashed his ego infront of 4000 plus people. Personally, I was snickering, for that guy had done me dirty in public many a time...
And umm, Belle, sorry about mentioning the typos. I guess I had thought you had scanned those letters in. And maybe because I am somewhat of a spelig Nazi, I brot that up to make shur thet peolpe wood spell beter when they wrote Way Crops. Becuz if people dunt have the luv to spel "Crops" rite, they shood not have bin in the Crops but rather the Armee
Hard to recall: they seemed to blend together. I thought it was in Bowling Green.
Remember our future 10th Corps sis telling her kidnapping story: how they'd gotton her on the plane and she wrote the word "Help" in her butter pat-and the Flight Attendant found it?
Toppie, that was AC 79. Kidnapped girl and I were wows together, so I'm sure.
Sisex, I must totally agree with you. Tis shameful what these cretins did to people. At least now it's being exposed, for the whole world to see what heartless morons they are.
Yeah, kidnapped girl and I were in Fargo together on our interim. I loved that "FBI In Denver" written on the butter pat when the stewardess returned with her food. Pretty cool, that. I also remember that my Corps Sistah (kidnapped girl) wrote her research paper on the "attempted deprogramming Of Jesus Christ", although I never read it.
In the BRC, vp was upfront with about six people who had recently attended that tracker guy's seminar. An 8th corps guy....LEAD type fellow....was outspoken on how incredible this guy and his teaching methods were at the seminar. In a couple of minutes of talking about the great stuff, vp couldn't take it any longer. Vp yelled, and pointed at this 8th corps guy....said he was possessed with spirits, etc. All of us seated in the BRC were stunned by vp's over-the-top reproof.
This was classic Wierwille. The trick was, don't ever upstage Dr. Ego. Anything that took the focus away from him and his "ministry" was a devil spirit.
The way I see it is that LCM learned so much about devil spirits he got consumed by the spirits he taught about. The way I see I still have hope for LCM and TWI to find there way back to teaching god's word. They need to apologize for there faults and then keep on teaching. :)
The way I see it is that LCM learned so much about devil spirits he got consumed by the spirits he taught about. The way I see I still have hope for LCM and TWI to find there way back to teaching god's word. They need to apologize for there faults and then keep on teaching. :)
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Sunesis
I am so glad I was out by then. LCM has the nerve to wonder how the corps got in debt over the years? Hmm... Let's see: minimum wage pay, either from HQ or on the field, being required to go to every event, every meeting, etc., then medical expenses, etc. - just things in life that TWI never covered. So, what do you do, borrow here, borrow there, to be the good corps person and do all you were expected to do and be at all the events, even if they're half way across the country.
These letters show just how they are so totally out of touch with reality - mindblowing. Its so easy for LCM to sit back and spew when he has no rent, didn't have a real job, money given to him for clothing, college paid for courtesy of TWI for the kids, etc. Its just pathetic.
I think every top leader of TWI, president's cabinet, or people who have been there more than 10years should be required to go "on the field," get housing, a job - what a shock to their system it would be.
These letters are pathetic drivel from someone in total denial about what life is like in the "real world."
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ex10
Sheesh. I still do not understand how people stayed and put up with this BS.
In these letters, people are spoken to like they are stupid, and incapable of running their own lives. These letters were sent to ADULTS, right?
LCM and his sycophants sound like total feaking maniacs. And this group was considered a "ministry?" And he was the head "minister?"
I do not understand how people can deny that TWI is a cult.....
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Belle
I don't understand either, ex10. Ya know what's really sad? I didn't even get involved till 1993 and wasn't really and truly sold out till 1995 or so.
Stupid Belle!! Stupid, Stupid Belle!!
Letters like this, hopefully, shed a little more light on the b.s. we were subjected to and how horrible it really was. Hopefully, too, people who can't believe we were afraid to leave can see a little better why.
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WordWolf
That's why I kicked up a fuss on the "vp and me in wonderland" thread.
vpw himself was facing corps grads, who had travelled to hq on their own dime,
taking time off work (either unpaid or as possibly their ONLY vacation time),
who spent "Corps Week" working for free, assembling the structures for the
next week's ROA, and then had to go home and get back to their lives the
following week. vpw tore them a new one for not staying a second week
and working a SECOND week for free.
Now, they weren't leaving because they WANTED to. If you were twi
(and corps were twi), you WANTED to be at the ROA. They were already RIGHT THERE.
The only reason to leave was that they had obligations that required them
to leave-familial or job-oriented, or they were broke and could not AFFORD
to take off another week and not draw a salary.
vpw, on the other hand, went straight from school into the clergy, where he
lived off his denomination, until he was able to cut-and-paste pfal from
other people's classes, and live off THEIR 10%. He had NO EXPERIENCE
with regular 40-hour work-weeks, salaries, and so on.
lcm went straight from college to the way corps, and spent all his time
after THAT on twi's payroll.
It's pretty nervy to attack people who are giving all they CAN,
just because they can't give MORE.
Not every way corps person was able to act as a complete slave
to twi at all times.
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skyrider
Flashback!!!!............ "rooting you out" :blink:
Eeeeeeerie.............. can still hear craiggers voice.
Here, ya got a guy going ballistic on "honesty"..........and he spends his nights chasing skirts and seducing other CORPS men's wives.
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skyrider
top.......I'm not sure about any veepee letters, BUT with my own eyes I witnessed veepee's venomous lashings on three different occasions. And, these weren't the little "you screwed up" types............these were rantings, frothing, hardened-eyes, gnashing teeth, character assassinations.
1) A 6th corps guy had fallen asleep on corps night. Veepee started yelling, stomping and swearing at this guy (who had a physical health problem.....some blood sugar/chemical imbalance thing). After about 5 minutes......veepee left the stage in the OSC dining room and went to the back room for about 10 minutes. Craig came out and yelled some more. Finally, vp came back fuming.....and then taught. The next day, the corps guy was sent packing off staff.
2) In the BRC, vp was upfront with about six people who had recently attended that tracker guy's seminar. An 8th corps guy....LEAD type fellow....was outspoken on how incredible this guy and his teaching methods
were at the seminar. In a couple of minutes of talking about the great stuff, vp couldn't take it any longer. Vp yelled, and pointed at this 8th corps guy....said he was possessed with spirits, etc. All of us seated in the BRC were stunned by vp's over-the-top reproof.
3) A nightowl in the way woods, and vp is sharing by the campfire. Crickets chirping in the background, a few fireflys, and a real solemn time with corps sitting at his feet. Anyways..........vp's bodyguard, Jim Crxx forgot to turn his two-way radio down...and the the screeching words broke the silence of the moment. It was classic wierwille.....the venomous anger side that some have never seen. Again, the high volume tear-him-a-new-@$$hole type of situation. Next morning, Jim was gone.
Yep..............vp and me (craiggers), learned his lessons well.
Why oh why did I stay after this........???????????????????????
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J0nny Ling0
Ya know,
I was surprised by those letters. Not that I was surprised by the venom and wickedness, but, I was surprised by the typographical errors. Craig must have spelled the word "Crops" for "Corps" at least three times. And to think that he used to rant in residence when people mis-spelled the word. If people would spell it "Corp", or "Corpes", in a letter to him, he would be sure to not only reprove that person for the innacurate spelling, but on a number of occasions, make sure to point it out publicly. I remember one 12th Crops (oops!) Corps fella who I saw one morning in the lobby of Uncle Harry Highrise with his bags all packed. He seemed distraught, and when I asked him where he was going, he replied that Craig had asked him to leave the Corps. When I asked him why, he said that it was because he didn't have the love to spell "Corps" correctly. He was really down in the mouth about it, because, he believed it too. He said he was going to "go and join the Army, I guess". And so, I prayed with him over by the piano, and then I was off to morning teaches in top floor Wierwille.
Now, I would guess that "Crops" was a typo, but really, I don't remember him making errors like that and allowing a letter to get out to the field without making sure that it was written correctly, as if he didn't even write the letter. But I do not doubt that he wrote those, but not only had his wickedness reached new levels since I "heard from" him last, but it seems as if his usual "sharpness" on things like that had diminished also. I think that so much of his accusations took a toll on his thinking.
I think this must be a classic case of what our Lord Jesus once said
"He who judgest doeth the same thing...."
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Linda Z
I'm particularly appalled by Bob Moynihan's letters.
Bob, if you're peeking in here, you know how much I once loved and respected you. Look at yourself. How can you dole out so much condemnation and parrot that crap that is passed off as God's Word in the Way Ministry today? Reading your words has saddened me greatly.
Side note: Mr. Lingo, the letters weren't scanned in--they were retyped. So it's quite possible the typoes came from our own Belle's nimble fingers and not those of LCM's secretary.
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Belle
There weren't any typos in craiggers' letters that I saw, but there was one in Moneyhands'. :blink: And he's just as anal as craiggers was about that kind of thing.
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Belle
ex10, what's really sad about that letter from Bobby is that the poor guy DID do all the things required of Bobby and was "allowed" back into the fold only to be kicked out yet again to jump through all the hoops again to be able to come back. :(
Last I heard, the poor chap had sold a successful business he built from scratch to go Way Disciple. He needed a place to stay the last week before going out WD and not one person - including all the WC in our area - would allow him to stay with them.
Cancha just feel the love? Poor guy.
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topoftheworld
I seem to recall a reaming out that VPW gave a camera operator at PFAL 77: VP had made a move that meant he was going to stand up, but the cameraman didn't catch on in time. VP ripped him a new one in front of everybody.
Those were few and far between, though: nothing like Craig, who I think just liked to hear the sound of his own voice.
But putting it in writing? I had shown one of Craig's letters (I can't remember which one now) to a company president: he was the husband of one of our faithful grads. He could not believe that anyone who had the responsibilty's that LCM did would write and distribute such a thing: he called it a stupid move on about the level with grade school children and nothing a true executive would ever do.
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ex10
It's pretty heartbreaking, Belle. :(
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justloafing
Yep ex and Belle it is sad. Sort of like trying to buy that bridge in Brooklyn for the third or fourth time.
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skyrider
You didn't show him craiggers' homo-purging letter did you??........the one where craiggers gives sexually explicit terms and how craiggers, if in OT times, "would gladly execute them."
Wowsers!!!!!!
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topoftheworld
Hell. no..although I would have loved to see his reaction to that! It was probably the loyalty letter: this was after I had left but still had access to some info.
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J0nny Ling0
I remember that Toppie. I think it may have been Advanced Class 79 though. The guy was St*ve W@rga, my Portland Or branch leader that previous year. I remember him being really *%^#*ed about it. He was a guy who was fairly self important, and it really smashed his ego infront of 4000 plus people. Personally, I was snickering, for that guy had done me dirty in public many a time...
And umm, Belle, sorry about mentioning the typos. I guess I had thought you had scanned those letters in. And maybe because I am somewhat of a spelig Nazi, I brot that up to make shur thet peolpe wood spell beter when they wrote Way Crops. Becuz if people dunt have the luv to spel "Crops" rite, they shood not have bin in the Crops but rather the Armee
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topoftheworld
Hard to recall: they seemed to blend together. I thought it was in Bowling Green.
Remember our future 10th Corps sis telling her kidnapping story: how they'd gotton her on the plane and she wrote the word "Help" in her butter pat-and the Flight Attendant found it?
Was that PFAL 77 or AC 79?
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excathedra
egotistical bullshhit artists living in fantasy land. it's embarrassing. veepee was the tupos. isn't that a bible type word ?
these people makes me sick but also happy that i'm not under their makebelieve hypocritical nutso guilt thumb
i think tupos means prototype or something like that
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topoftheworld
Can you imagine what a decent human resources department would have done to all these guys? Where were they when we needed them?
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ex10
Toppie, that was AC 79. Kidnapped girl and I were wows together, so I'm sure.
Sisex, I must totally agree with you. Tis shameful what these cretins did to people. At least now it's being exposed, for the whole world to see what heartless morons they are.
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J0nny Ling0
Yeah, kidnapped girl and I were in Fargo together on our interim. I loved that "FBI In Denver" written on the butter pat when the stewardess returned with her food. Pretty cool, that. I also remember that my Corps Sistah (kidnapped girl) wrote her research paper on the "attempted deprogramming Of Jesus Christ", although I never read it.
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shazdancer
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ckmkeon
The way I see it is that LCM learned so much about devil spirits he got consumed by the spirits he taught about. The way I see I still have hope for LCM and TWI to find there way back to teaching god's word. They need to apologize for there faults and then keep on teaching. :)
CK
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dmiller
It'll never happen. :)
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