Isn't there a Catch-22 in all that? If I'm M & A, to whom and how I am going to prove that I am suddenly worth? How can I prove I'm not causing divisions and annoyances if I can't get close to unmarked believer's? Do I send a tear stained letter to the BOT?
If my reason for being M&A stemmed from someone who was later also M&A, what to do?
Their files must be pretty thick; if they are maintaining documentation on who di what to who.
By the way, what about children of an M&A couple? Suppose they want to get in?
Something is just not right with this thread. I just have to wonder why ck always talks about how good twi is then post with a tounge in cheek of how good it was and yet how screwed up it is(SNS). This is NOT a slam against you ck but it seemes that chunks of information was thrown into your first post. Me myself am just not taking the bait.
When I talk of the TWI being good is when VPW was there. I believe the TWI is just like any other church today. The money is more important and the person is second or third. I went to the service fully suited and sat through the whole thing
I am not in favor of going backwards in amy part of my life.
God set life up for growth. Growth involves change. Change involves moving on.
As soon as a baby comes out of the womb and "unfolds" it is apparent that there is no returning. Years later, just try and fir baby into a onesie again - can't do it.
So, should twi change and will still not return. That was a part of my life that God has allowed me to move on from.
Just as an aside. Shortly after the "mass exodus" in the late eighties, I thought that it might actually be a good thing if twi were to break up - but not for the same reasons that I think now.
Twi had become (and remains) very closed in. A group to itself. I saw the exodus as a modern day "diaspero" (that time in Acts when all the believers were scattered and the Word moved faster and better.)
So, no matter what - i've bid my " adieus" and and my "AMF's)
When I talk of the TWI being good is when VPW was there. I believe the TWI is just like any other church today. The money is more important and the person is second or third. I went to the service fully suited and sat through the whole thing
CK
CK.......Like I said I was not trying to flame you. from what you said they were M&A books. Did they(the books or the people reading them) say M&A? That is a very big question. Another question......Did they check your dads ID or did they just ask what his name was? One other question. Why do you still fellowship with them if you think twi was good when vp ran the joint? Also twi is not just another church if they are checking books to see if your allowed in.
Okay enough with the jl's. Your JL I am jl..................after all, your clergy(I really do respect that) but I see us as brothas. Your clergy because some one saw something really good in you and I just light the flame :)
Actually your name is JonnyLingo and mine is justloafing. You have the caps.
I am trying VERY HARD to believe that the current BOD of TWI is departing from LCM's running of this organization. This makes it SO much more difficult to discern.
I do not go to any church or ministry where a security check is needed.
I do not fellowship with those that agree there is a body of Christian believers on a list we should mark and avoid or kick out of a teaching of God's Word. (If that is what they are teaching)
I had thought that they had long departed from LCM with only a few kinks left, like the graveyard issue.
I must be wrong.
You know time passes on. In this case it seems time has stood still. TWI used to say people that left would be a greasespot by midnight. It must be tougher on those to whom midnight never comes.
I feel sort of responsible for ck posting this thread. One evening in chat ck stated that he was going visit hq and do an sns. I asked him why and he said he was going with his dad and simply wanted the experience. I 'heard' that he was going more for the perspective...sort of like going back to see if what he saw then is what he still sees or if he could see through his dad's eyes.
I encouraged him to post his experience. He said he would but would do his best to be impartial, trying not to prejudice anyone's opinion one way or the other.
Maybe I'm too stoopid for my shirt (you know...like in the song 'too sexy'...but just too stoopid lol), but I took ck at face value.
I have a 19yo son and I know that most of the time he doesn't really know what he thinks about something...which makes him seem like he's always waffling if not an out-and-out liar or crazy person. He's still trying to figure out what part of his thinking is what we taught him to think and what part is what he actually thinks. And he hasn't got a whole lot of life experience to guide him in this process.
So I get ck coming across as confused at best, phony and 'trolling' at worst.
I also get what I was like when I first confronted my twi brain on extwi message boards. So much of what I thought and did, I didn't know I was thinking and doing until somebody pointed it out to me in a way that I could understand.
Anyway...
CK, I wasn't setting you up or anything...I really thought that people would be interested in what you experienced...and how you interpret what you experienced.
((((Cool)))) (((((ck))))) - Y'all didn't do anything wrong. I'm glad ck went and was able to see the good and the bad. Naturally we're going to question anything "odd" that TWI does and there's plenty of that to question.
Next thing you know they'll be putting up metal detectors and scanning people with wands before they let them in the services. What kind of impression ya think those things give to visitors? Obviously it seems a little odd, even to people already somewhat familiar with TWI's military-style control of people.
ck, there's just so many places out there that teach the things you want to hear and that have so much more to offer than TWI does. Not all churches lie to their people and keep them in the dark about important matters or tell them what to do with their money and their lives.
However, if that's where you want to be and the group of people that you want to spend your time with, more power to ya. And, please know that we will be here when/if you experience the same heartbreak that we did.
My first trip there in 1976, on the spur of the moment, by myself, was good enough. I arrived and was not checked or in any way suspected of anything, and ate at a one table lunch led by Uncle Harry. HQ was bare of people because so many were at the big meeting at Emporia at that time. But I certainly was welcomed, and wasnt given any funny looks when I walked around some.
When I went to the TWI I tried to keep a open mind, then come back and just post the facts of the experience. I hope that none of my opinions were in this post. The experience was nice I had heard so much about the way I just wanted to see the place
GSC, I will admit tha I was at /HQ/ about 3 months back, I am by no means a regular at all. There was no way to check you. People arrived up until the last minute, there was no desk, there were no lists. Unless someone got /revelation/ to ask someone something or something changed in the last 3 months [and friends of mine go all the time for some reason. Ie/ 2 times a month and this was never brought up] then I am unsure.
Ck, if you are correct then to quote Bill and Ted /this is bogus/. :blink:
When I went to the TWI I tried to keep a open mind, then come back and just post the facts of the experience. I hope that none of my opinions were in this post. The experience was nice I had heard so much about the way I just wanted to see the place
CK
And you are a better person, for actually checking things out for yourself. If you listen to the likes of us, and DON'T check things out, we become a *cult*, just like twi.
Kudos to you for looking behind the scenes, and not just accepting *surface value*,
about either us, or twi, but looking to see for yourself. :)
Other than ROA's and classes, I went to TWI HQ just once. Three carloads of us drove out from Queens one weekend. We drove overnight and arrived Saturday morning. We were fed a late breakfast and spent the day getting a tour of the grounds, then went to Sidney to see the Historical Center (not sure exactly what it was called). That evening we saw a Way Productions show in New Bremen.
We were to spend the night sleeping in the cabin in the woods in sleeping bags, however it got really cold and Cliff Adelman came out in the middle of the night and brought us to a warmer location: the BRC! We were awakened in the early morning by a setup crew who were getting the room set for 10:30 fellowship. We were fed lunch after the fellowship and then hit the road back to Queens.
No lists, no security checks. We were made to feel welcome every minute that we were there.
There's been some conflicting stories about the said "Security Checks". There's been a couple of posts now where poster (i.e. Learning) say they've been recently and there's no checks. I ain't in anyway saying you're making this up, but... Are you sure that what you saw was a "Secuity Check" or could it have been a special guest check in (like for Way Disciples or other special guests who were expected to attend and were perhaps to be presented as being guests during the service?)
(No offence - just asking... it's what I do best!) :)
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Tom Strange
Maybe he thinks veepee is coming baaaack!
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Bluzeman
That has been my question ever since I read the first post on this thread.
Rick
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templelady
ME!!! devisive amd Annoying???? ME????
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topoftheworld
Oldies,
Isn't there a Catch-22 in all that? If I'm M & A, to whom and how I am going to prove that I am suddenly worth? How can I prove I'm not causing divisions and annoyances if I can't get close to unmarked believer's? Do I send a tear stained letter to the BOT?
If my reason for being M&A stemmed from someone who was later also M&A, what to do?
Their files must be pretty thick; if they are maintaining documentation on who di what to who.
By the way, what about children of an M&A couple? Suppose they want to get in?
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ckmkeon
When I talk of the TWI being good is when VPW was there. I believe the TWI is just like any other church today. The money is more important and the person is second or third. I went to the service fully suited and sat through the whole thing
CK
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doojable
I am not in favor of going backwards in amy part of my life.
God set life up for growth. Growth involves change. Change involves moving on.
As soon as a baby comes out of the womb and "unfolds" it is apparent that there is no returning. Years later, just try and fir baby into a onesie again - can't do it.
So, should twi change and will still not return. That was a part of my life that God has allowed me to move on from.
Just as an aside. Shortly after the "mass exodus" in the late eighties, I thought that it might actually be a good thing if twi were to break up - but not for the same reasons that I think now.
Twi had become (and remains) very closed in. A group to itself. I saw the exodus as a modern day "diaspero" (that time in Acts when all the believers were scattered and the Word moved faster and better.)
So, no matter what - i've bid my " adieus" and and my "AMF's)
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justloafing
CK.......Like I said I was not trying to flame you. from what you said they were M&A books. Did they(the books or the people reading them) say M&A? That is a very big question. Another question......Did they check your dads ID or did they just ask what his name was? One other question. Why do you still fellowship with them if you think twi was good when vp ran the joint? Also twi is not just another church if they are checking books to see if your allowed in.
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nandon
CK,
glad you guys had a good time.
are you going to start going to a fellowship, or take twi's new class?
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J0nny Ling0
JL (Just Loafing), how could you not expect some one to think you were flaming them? Just look at your avatar! Just teasin now... :)
JL (Jonny Lingo)
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justloafing
I flame myself JL
Okay enough with the jl's. Your JL I am jl..................after all, your clergy(I really do respect that) but I see us as brothas. Your clergy because some one saw something really good in you and I just light the flame :)
Actually your name is JonnyLingo and mine is justloafing. You have the caps.
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Eagle
I am trying VERY HARD to believe that the current BOD of TWI is departing from LCM's running of this organization. This makes it SO much more difficult to discern.
I do not go to any church or ministry where a security check is needed.
I do not fellowship with those that agree there is a body of Christian believers on a list we should mark and avoid or kick out of a teaching of God's Word. (If that is what they are teaching)
I had thought that they had long departed from LCM with only a few kinks left, like the graveyard issue.
I must be wrong.
You know time passes on. In this case it seems time has stood still. TWI used to say people that left would be a greasespot by midnight. It must be tougher on those to whom midnight never comes.
Eagle
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ChasUFarley
Why would a church *NEED* security unless there was a real THREAT?
Why would there be any threats?
Can you say, "Pi$$ed off husbands!"
I just can't imagine the impression that experience would make on new people going to STS for the first time... Whoo-hoo!
You're always welcome, at The Way.... (just check in at the desk, to make sure of it!)
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CoolWaters
I feel sort of responsible for ck posting this thread. One evening in chat ck stated that he was going visit hq and do an sns. I asked him why and he said he was going with his dad and simply wanted the experience. I 'heard' that he was going more for the perspective...sort of like going back to see if what he saw then is what he still sees or if he could see through his dad's eyes.
I encouraged him to post his experience. He said he would but would do his best to be impartial, trying not to prejudice anyone's opinion one way or the other.
Maybe I'm too stoopid for my shirt (you know...like in the song 'too sexy'...but just too stoopid lol), but I took ck at face value.
I have a 19yo son and I know that most of the time he doesn't really know what he thinks about something...which makes him seem like he's always waffling if not an out-and-out liar or crazy person. He's still trying to figure out what part of his thinking is what we taught him to think and what part is what he actually thinks. And he hasn't got a whole lot of life experience to guide him in this process.
So I get ck coming across as confused at best, phony and 'trolling' at worst.
I also get what I was like when I first confronted my twi brain on extwi message boards. So much of what I thought and did, I didn't know I was thinking and doing until somebody pointed it out to me in a way that I could understand.
Anyway...
CK, I wasn't setting you up or anything...I really thought that people would be interested in what you experienced...and how you interpret what you experienced.
Everybody else...
If I'm being too stoopid, my bad and I'm sorry.
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mstar1
Don't forget, we are dealing with a group that believes in devils, and fears them and their illusory existence to no end.
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outofdafog
Chas LMAO - can you say "pi**ed off husbands?" hahahaha
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Belle
((((Cool)))) (((((ck))))) - Y'all didn't do anything wrong. I'm glad ck went and was able to see the good and the bad. Naturally we're going to question anything "odd" that TWI does and there's plenty of that to question.
Next thing you know they'll be putting up metal detectors and scanning people with wands before they let them in the services. What kind of impression ya think those things give to visitors? Obviously it seems a little odd, even to people already somewhat familiar with TWI's military-style control of people.
ck, there's just so many places out there that teach the things you want to hear and that have so much more to offer than TWI does. Not all churches lie to their people and keep them in the dark about important matters or tell them what to do with their money and their lives.
However, if that's where you want to be and the group of people that you want to spend your time with, more power to ya.
And, please know that we will be here when/if you experience the same heartbreak that we did. 
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Lifted Up
My first trip there in 1976, on the spur of the moment, by myself, was good enough. I arrived and was not checked or in any way suspected of anything, and ate at a one table lunch led by Uncle Harry. HQ was bare of people because so many were at the big meeting at Emporia at that time. But I certainly was welcomed, and wasnt given any funny looks when I walked around some.
yes, things have changed greatly since then.
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ckmkeon
(Cool everything is fine)
When I went to the TWI I tried to keep a open mind, then come back and just post the facts of the experience. I hope that none of my opinions were in this post. The experience was nice I had heard so much about the way I just wanted to see the place
CK
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learning
GSC, I will admit tha I was at /HQ/ about 3 months back, I am by no means a regular at all. There was no way to check you. People arrived up until the last minute, there was no desk, there were no lists. Unless someone got /revelation/ to ask someone something or something changed in the last 3 months [and friends of mine go all the time for some reason. Ie/ 2 times a month and this was never brought up] then I am unsure.
Ck, if you are correct then to quote Bill and Ted /this is bogus/. :blink:
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dmiller
And you are a better person, for actually checking things out for yourself. If you listen to the likes of us, and DON'T check things out, we become a *cult*, just like twi.
Kudos to you for looking behind the scenes, and not just accepting *surface value*,
about either us, or twi, but looking to see for yourself. :)
David
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Oakspear
Other than ROA's and classes, I went to TWI HQ just once. Three carloads of us drove out from Queens one weekend. We drove overnight and arrived Saturday morning. We were fed a late breakfast and spent the day getting a tour of the grounds, then went to Sidney to see the Historical Center (not sure exactly what it was called). That evening we saw a Way Productions show in New Bremen.
We were to spend the night sleeping in the cabin in the woods in sleeping bags, however it got really cold and Cliff Adelman came out in the middle of the night and brought us to a warmer location: the BRC! We were awakened in the early morning by a setup crew who were getting the room set for 10:30 fellowship. We were fed lunch after the fellowship and then hit the road back to Queens.
No lists, no security checks. We were made to feel welcome every minute that we were there.
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ChasUFarley
Oakie --
Annnnddddd.... about what year would that be, praytell?
Just the fact you were allowed to sleep there in the cabin in the woods says it's probably about 197_.....
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ChasUFarley
cmk --
There's been some conflicting stories about the said "Security Checks". There's been a couple of posts now where poster (i.e. Learning) say they've been recently and there's no checks. I ain't in anyway saying you're making this up, but... Are you sure that what you saw was a "Secuity Check" or could it have been a special guest check in (like for Way Disciples or other special guests who were expected to attend and were perhaps to be presented as being guests during the service?)
(No offence - just asking... it's what I do best!) :)
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Oakspear
1979
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