At the the beginning of the other thread i made a comment something along the lines of Im not sure what people mean by "minister" or "ministry" when they talk about it around here because the definition has been so tainted by our invoilvement in TWI.
There imo it was very narrow, (there are 5 -only 5, and this is exactly how they operate --and all of them must teach and preach the bible--blah blah blah blah). So you had a ton of people with natural (dare i say God given) gifts that shut them off in order to quote scripture incessantly.....bahh----Some of those people may have had a gift to 'give a word fitly spoken' or some such thing, but many peoples real 'minstries often lay dormant because it was degraded as not valuable.
I'd hate to think of a world without the millions of people that do us service everyday....
I read an essay by Emerson that stated that every man has a ministry if he views his life that way. He used the example of a farmer in a field, who labors honestly and provides for his community. Never mind artists, authors, poets, scientist, doctors, spiritual leaders, and the simple people around us that enrich our lives in innumerable ways almost all the time, sometimes imperceptibly.
....I have a tendency to view the word ministry much more along those lines now, as opposed to it being a title bestowed on someone, or a word coopted by a group in Ohio. To me almost any life well lived will have aspects of "a ministry" within it
All to help shore up the stated dogma that TWI was the only one , the only Choice, the only right
IN the LDS church we have no paid clergy--In fact no position in the church is paid until you get to the Quorums of Seventy and above. .
Everybody has a job or independent source of income. We are all sons and daughters of God with the mandate to spread the restored gospel.
As result of this thinking -- the man who is the bishop of my ward this year could be the young men's adviser next year. The man who is the secretary for the Elders Quorum this year could be Bishop next year. The woman who is in charge of making the bulletins this year could be Relief Society President next year. All Callings are viewed as an opportunity to minister. And while some callings carry more responsibility Callings come and go in some cases in a matter of months--no time to get a big head--and you look very foolish to your sisters and brothers if you try to
It is a given that we are all to minister wherever there is need within or without the church.
I've thought about this quite a bit, Lindy. I go out of my way when talking about TWI to call them TWI or "that group" or something - anything other than "THE ministry". They aren't THE ministry unless you want to call them THE ministry of Satan. It's been real eye-opening to see all the very subtle ways we were so arrogant - and taught to be so. Been quite humbling, actually. I've changed my vocabulary quite a bit trying to avoid trigger words and such.
I've thought about this quite a bit, Lindy. I go out of my way when talking about TWI to call them TWI or "that group" or something - anything other than "THE ministry". They aren't THE ministry unless you want to call them THE ministry of Satan. It's been real eye-opening to see all the very subtle ways we were so arrogant - and taught to be so. Been quite humbling, actually. I've changed my vocabulary quite a bit trying to avoid trigger words and such.
Heck Belle... I just call them a CULT... I also call an apple an apple and an orange an orange...
I found myself referring to "the ministry" a lot, as well. Not only does it draw confused looks from non-twi-associated people, but I realized it was still giving singularity and deference to a group I loathe. So I made a conscious decision to "demote" this group and its top leadership...
Replace "Rev. Martindale" with craig, craiggers, martindale, lcm (lowercase), or the forehead
Replace "Dr. Wierwille" with vic, vp, vpw, or wierwille
Replace "the ministry" and "the way" with twi or the way international
It takes a little effort, and I'm sure I slip up from time to time, but it is a far better use of my time than learning how to not say "Christmas, Easter, or Halloween"!!
Since they drive such an attitude of elitism ("Daddy loves me best!") attitude, they want you to think that they are THE ONLY MINISTRY of GOD - they have the market cornered on believing!There's not supposed to be any others. They teach the rightly divided Word - they are masters of the Word.
They are SUPERIOR.
NOT!
I've always had a problem with groups who thought they were God's favorite.
Until God comes out and says so, I'm not buying it from any of them because the Word says all men are liars!
Something that always gets to me and has for the longest time is the use of "The Word" for the Bible. I still catch myself saying it and I want to bite my tongue off when I say it.
Hey, WordWolf, is that on the list for the TWI Drinking Game?
That used to bother me, too, until I realized that calling the bible "The Word" is common and has been for a long time. The brain retrain is to think of it as the "Word(s)" of God, not the "Word's" of the Way. HUGE difference.
One thing I remember was that quite a number of TWI believers back then, who referred to TWI as "The Ministry", often got annoyed or peeved when anybody inside the organization referred to it by its actual name; Ie., The Way International in casual conversation. Or even if you said "The Way Ministry", as tho' you spoke of it as just an organization, rather than much more than that. With a term like 'The Ministry', it was more intimate, something that expected more loyalty than an organization would.
Looking back, as far as I'm concerned, any diety who would work thru such a group and only thru such a group, isn't much to write home about. At all.
Hey Chas..I think if people were honest they would admit that they believe THEIR church IS THE church.
That goes for JW's,. Mormons, heck, even dyed in the wool Catholics. Even if they personally don't subscribe to the idea, the further up their 'elitist' ladder you look the more prevalent that line of thinking goes.
I was raised Mormon, and went to a JW Kingdom Hall quite often as a kid becuase my nanny was a JW. By the time I got involved with TWI I'd heard the same song-n-dance about ___________ (fill in the blank) so often that it just sort of rolled off me... yaddy, yaddy, yaddy.
What made TWI different, to me, anyhow, was that they were so zealous about it and had tons of scripture to apply (or attempt to, anyhow) to make it seem so much more "real".... It was easier to buy from them because of this, I think. Since they made the Bible seem to make more sence for me, I think it gave them more integrity, as far as I was concerned. I never got a 'take it on faith' answer from them. So, I took the bait - hook, line, and sinker!
(With Mormon and then JW in my background, I guess I was just "Born to be in a Cult"!)
Hey Chas..I think if people were honest they would admit that they believe THEIR church IS THE church.
That goes for JW's,. Mormons, heck, even dyed in the wool Catholics. Even if they personally don't subscribe to the idea, the further up their 'elitist' ladder you look the more prevalent that line of thinking goes.
I would agree with your examples, but not all churches believe that way.
Pretty close-minded, imo, to think that there's only one right church or religion. Many churches readily admit that they don't have the corner market on the truth. That's why I like the church that I attend.
I don't necessarily know which religion is "right" and I happen to think most of them have some things right. Who am I to judge who's right and who's wrong? God is the judge. I'm doing the best I can with what I have and I like to think that everyone else is doing the same thing and that God honors that since he supposedly looks on the heart.
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mstar1
At the the beginning of the other thread i made a comment something along the lines of Im not sure what people mean by "minister" or "ministry" when they talk about it around here because the definition has been so tainted by our invoilvement in TWI.
There imo it was very narrow, (there are 5 -only 5, and this is exactly how they operate --and all of them must teach and preach the bible--blah blah blah blah). So you had a ton of people with natural (dare i say God given) gifts that shut them off in order to quote scripture incessantly.....bahh----Some of those people may have had a gift to 'give a word fitly spoken' or some such thing, but many peoples real 'minstries often lay dormant because it was degraded as not valuable.
I'd hate to think of a world without the millions of people that do us service everyday....
I read an essay by Emerson that stated that every man has a ministry if he views his life that way. He used the example of a farmer in a field, who labors honestly and provides for his community. Never mind artists, authors, poets, scientist, doctors, spiritual leaders, and the simple people around us that enrich our lives in innumerable ways almost all the time, sometimes imperceptibly.
....I have a tendency to view the word ministry much more along those lines now, as opposed to it being a title bestowed on someone, or a word coopted by a group in Ohio. To me almost any life well lived will have aspects of "a ministry" within it
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templelady
In TWI it was
THE word
THE mog
THE teacher
THE ministry
All to help shore up the stated dogma that TWI was the only one , the only Choice, the only right
IN the LDS church we have no paid clergy--In fact no position in the church is paid until you get to the Quorums of Seventy and above. .
Everybody has a job or independent source of income. We are all sons and daughters of God with the mandate to spread the restored gospel.
As result of this thinking -- the man who is the bishop of my ward this year could be the young men's adviser next year. The man who is the secretary for the Elders Quorum this year could be Bishop next year. The woman who is in charge of making the bulletins this year could be Relief Society President next year. All Callings are viewed as an opportunity to minister. And while some callings carry more responsibility Callings come and go in some cases in a matter of months--no time to get a big head--and you look very foolish to your sisters and brothers if you try to
It is a given that we are all to minister wherever there is need within or without the church.
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Belle
I've thought about this quite a bit, Lindy. I go out of my way when talking about TWI to call them TWI or "that group" or something - anything other than "THE ministry". They aren't THE ministry unless you want to call them THE ministry of Satan. It's been real eye-opening to see all the very subtle ways we were so arrogant - and taught to be so. Been quite humbling, actually. I've changed my vocabulary quite a bit trying to avoid trigger words and such.
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Kevlar2000
And here at Greasespot, it is....
just THE.
All hail THE! :)
You're right, Mo...just simple, subtle ways to get some of us to believe this information and kind of fellowship weren't available anywhere else.
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Tom Strange
Heck Belle... I just call them a CULT... I also call an apple an apple and an orange an orange...
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TheHighWay
Good topic, Lindy...
I found myself referring to "the ministry" a lot, as well. Not only does it draw confused looks from non-twi-associated people, but I realized it was still giving singularity and deference to a group I loathe. So I made a conscious decision to "demote" this group and its top leadership...
Replace "Rev. Martindale" with craig, craiggers, martindale, lcm (lowercase), or the forehead
Replace "Dr. Wierwille" with vic, vp, vpw, or wierwille
Replace "the ministry" and "the way" with twi or the way international
It takes a little effort, and I'm sure I slip up from time to time, but it is a far better use of my time than learning how to not say "Christmas, Easter, or Halloween"!!
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skyrider
Add to that.........
THE class..................you gotta take THE class
THE way corps..........no other program quite like it
THE corps chalet.......and now donna's hide-away home
THE way woods.........all wood is way wood (huh?)
THE victor paul wierwille prevailing word auditorium
THE way of abundance and power class........."wap" class (shelved)
THE prevailing word........a notch higher than what others know
THE renewed mind.........a done deal, sealed with twi doctrine
THE true household........a dysfunctional outfit, but "true" to one another
Okay............that's enough. Uuuuuuuugh
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ChasUFarley
Since they drive such an attitude of elitism ("Daddy loves me best!") attitude, they want you to think that they are THE ONLY MINISTRY of GOD - they have the market cornered on believing!There's not supposed to be any others. They teach the rightly divided Word - they are masters of the Word.
They are SUPERIOR.
NOT!
I've always had a problem with groups who thought they were God's favorite.
Until God comes out and says so, I'm not buying it from any of them because the Word says all men are liars!
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Belle
Really good points here. Excellent thread, Lindy.
Something that always gets to me and has for the longest time is the use of "The Word" for the Bible.
I still catch myself saying it and I want to bite my tongue off when I say it. 
Hey, WordWolf, is that on the list for the TWI Drinking Game?
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topoftheworld
That used to bother me, too, until I realized that calling the bible "The Word" is common and has been for a long time. The brain retrain is to think of it as the "Word(s)" of God, not the "Word's" of the Way. HUGE difference.
The Word is still comforting. IMO.
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GarthP2000
One thing I remember was that quite a number of TWI believers back then, who referred to TWI as "The Ministry", often got annoyed or peeved when anybody inside the organization referred to it by its actual name; Ie., The Way International in casual conversation. Or even if you said "The Way Ministry", as tho' you spoke of it as just an organization, rather than much more than that. With a term like 'The Ministry', it was more intimate, something that expected more loyalty than an organization would.
Looking back, as far as I'm concerned, any diety who would work thru such a group and only thru such a group, isn't much to write home about. At all.
<_<
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allan w.
Hey Chas..I think if people were honest they would admit that they believe THEIR church IS THE church.
That goes for JW's,. Mormons, heck, even dyed in the wool Catholics. Even if they personally don't subscribe to the idea, the further up their 'elitist' ladder you look the more prevalent that line of thinking goes.
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ChasUFarley
Allen - Interesting examples you use...
I was raised Mormon, and went to a JW Kingdom Hall quite often as a kid becuase my nanny was a JW. By the time I got involved with TWI I'd heard the same song-n-dance
about ___________ (fill in the blank) so often that it just sort of rolled off me... yaddy, yaddy, yaddy.
What made TWI different, to me, anyhow, was that they were so zealous about it and had tons of scripture to apply (or attempt to, anyhow) to make it seem so much more "real".... It was easier to buy from them because of this, I think. Since they made the Bible seem to make more sence for me, I think it gave them more integrity, as far as I was concerned. I never got a 'take it on faith' answer from them. So, I took the bait - hook, line, and sinker!
(With Mormon and then JW in my background, I guess I was just "Born to be in a Cult"!)
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Oakspear
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templelady
{deleted} OH, why should I bother
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Belle
Pretty close-minded, imo, to think that there's only one right church or religion. Many churches readily admit that they don't have the corner market on the truth. That's why I like the church that I attend.
I don't necessarily know which religion is "right" and I happen to think most of them have some things right. Who am I to judge who's right and who's wrong? God is the judge. I'm doing the best I can with what I have and I like to think that everyone else is doing the same thing and that God honors that since he supposedly looks on the heart.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
belle
i could not agree with you more.
i am comfortable right now i the rc church.
do i agree with all of thier doctrin?
no
but would i agree with the doctrine in any church? nope
but i do believe that God does honor any of our efforts to worship him
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LG
I think if you were honest (yes, I'm saying that you're not) you would admit that you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
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oldiesman
I agree with Allan's statement.
It just makes sense.
Why would someone go to a church if they didn't think it was the best out there?
Why waste time and money on something you don't believe is THE way to go?
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GarthP2000
That's why I 'waste' all my time and money on THE.
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templelady
*****WARNING THE FOLLOWING STATEMANT MAY CAUSE ACUTE HEART RELATED SYMPTOMS READ WITH CARE*************
I agree with Oldies and Allen W
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oldiesman
Happy Weekend, one and all!
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