What was said about Don Wierwille's death? He died of lung cancer I believe.
It just makes me sick to think of how I was tricked into believing that all ill people were possessed. What crap! Just when people need our help the most, we in TWI just "put them deeper into what they dealt with" much like was stated in the PFAL class about the alcoholic !
Long ago, someone posted on GS or WD about VPW and the trait of narcissim. They mentioned a book called "Malignant Self Love". I bought it and read it cover to cover.
It was exhausting to read about this condition which is truly evil. The term narcissim is thrown around loosly but it is pretty insidious and relatively incurable; the book was written by a narcissist who was jotting down his thoughts before "the condition overtakes me again."
[my husband was this way and I was amazed to finally understand what was wrong for so long].
It dawned on me that among other things, the leaders at the top were all there because the evil of narcissim allows them to live and thrive in the conditions they create. And, they CANNOT hear anyone or anything differently.
Poor Mrs W-----she lived entrapped [partly by her situation of dependence, and partly by her upbringing].
I think at the end VPW had regrets-I think maybe God did show him things and this time he actually LISTENED. VPW may have very well repented and asked for forgiveness of GOD--I don't know but I'm sure not going to say he didn't because that is between him and God.
Personally I think his biggest regret was
selecting LCM as his replacement--He lived long enough to see exactly where that was heading -probably in much more detail and clarity than almost anyone else--I think in his heart of hearts he knew that the TWI he had created would be destroyed and there was nothing he could do about it. To know the work of a lifetime was going to be destroyed because you had picked the wrong man--that would have been very hard for VPW
Yeah, it was a strange epitah. Didn't make sense. Indicitaive of a troubled man. You would have thought that he would have had John 10:10 on there or something similar as representative of his infamous PFAL class or somethng. Or maybe one of those verses from Ephesians he was so fond of.
But to have put "I wish I were the man I knew to be"
seems like a guilt trip, and as others have said an admission of sorts.
He should have just said on there "I'm sorry" and got it over with.
On mine I think I'll try for more of a sense of huimor:
Hi, Rejoice, so sorry to hear you went through living with someone with narcissistic personality disorder. I did also, and it can be a nightmare.
I think of that when I think of Mrs. Wierwille.
But it is also a living hell for the narcissist himself, who has built up this false image to be admired because his real self is so wounded. So in using and wounding others, he tries desperately to keep them from wounding him. No real friends, because he won't let them get close to him.
They say that narcissists often mellow as they get older, perhaps realizing that their masks are not working, perhaps just not having the energy it takes to sustain all the lies anymore. Perhaps this is where Wierwille found himself -- alone, due to his own fault.
He could have been a better man. But not even Christ was enough inspiration for him to be that.
A man of good moral character and personal integrety simply IS the man he knows to be....regardless of the situation and circumstances....no excuses.
It is the very least that we would expect from a christian...not to mention a man who desired to be a minister to God`s people.
Sounds to me like he was whining up till the very end....rather than actually taking responsibility for his life and actions and actually BEING the man he knew to be.
It's a reference to a famous poem by Dylan Thomas. It's called "Do not go gentle into that goodnight" and is probably the best known and most oft-quoted poem about death.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
What I can't understand is why we are trying to disect what a man is saying on his death bed. From what I have heard he was on different pain killers like morphine and iodine. There is a chance he did not know what he had said.
And just to round out your knowledge of WayWorld lore a bit, CK (and trust me, that knowledge is sorely lacking) - it was years between Mr. Wierwille having his eye removed and his ultimate death. And he wasn't totally incapitated at that time. He did "Soundout '84" and some other crap during that period, so he still had command of his faculties...
Wierwille's epitaph should have read "I wish I had been the man God wanted me to be instead of the jerk and fool I am". Can I get an Amen, brothers and sisters?
Since VPW seemed to like pomp and circumstance, I'm sure he came up with that epitaph l-o-n-g before the stone cutters needed it.
The thing that always struck me odd about that saying, was that the word "WISH" was in it. We weren't supposed to "WISH" for anything - we were supposed to BELIEVE for it.
Maybe he shoulda just said, "I should have believed harded."
-------------------------
If iodine is a pain killer, then I plan on opening up a serious pharmacy here in rural NH. To think, I've been using it as an antibacterial agent all these years when I could be selling it to the oxycodone-seeking crowd. Whoo-hoo! I'll be RICH! And I don't even need a 'script for it! BONANZA!
Craiggers wouldn't have let him put that on his tombstone. How DARE vee pee use the word "wish"! :blink: I think that just confirms how possessed he was.
Ok, for those who are just dense (meaning me) we are talking about the retorical statement VP made a while back, correct? Please tell me that he really didn't have that put on his stone.
Belle, I don't believe he was possessed. I think he was just sick, sad, and tired. No excuses for his behaviour, but he knew it was all coming to a boil, and he knew he blew it.
I apologize, that whole post was tongue in cheek. I knew it was on his gravestone. I think it's ironic, though, that TWI has gone so far from what their 'founding father' taught. Here is the founder with the word "wish" on his tombstone, yet no one in TWI is allowed to even say that word anymore. They may be today, but we couldn't say it when I was still involved not that long ago. They are reading teachings after vee pee poked so much fun at preachers for doing that....But that's a derail....
IF you substitute "believe" like craiggers said we should, then that would read "I believe I were the man I know to be." :huh: He can't even say that he believes he was the man he knew to be.
He knew he wasn't the man he knew to be. I only wish he was terribly sorry about that and about all the lives he destroyed.
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Rejoice
What was said about Don Wierwille's death? He died of lung cancer I believe.
It just makes me sick to think of how I was tricked into believing that all ill people were possessed. What crap! Just when people need our help the most, we in TWI just "put them deeper into what they dealt with" much like was stated in the PFAL class about the alcoholic !
Long ago, someone posted on GS or WD about VPW and the trait of narcissim. They mentioned a book called "Malignant Self Love". I bought it and read it cover to cover.
It was exhausting to read about this condition which is truly evil. The term narcissim is thrown around loosly but it is pretty insidious and relatively incurable; the book was written by a narcissist who was jotting down his thoughts before "the condition overtakes me again."
[my husband was this way and I was amazed to finally understand what was wrong for so long].
It dawned on me that among other things, the leaders at the top were all there because the evil of narcissim allows them to live and thrive in the conditions they create. And, they CANNOT hear anyone or anything differently.
Poor Mrs W-----she lived entrapped [partly by her situation of dependence, and partly by her upbringing].
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templelady
I think at the end VPW had regrets-I think maybe God did show him things and this time he actually LISTENED. VPW may have very well repented and asked for forgiveness of GOD--I don't know but I'm sure not going to say he didn't because that is between him and God.
Personally I think his biggest regret was
selecting LCM as his replacement--He lived long enough to see exactly where that was heading -probably in much more detail and clarity than almost anyone else--I think in his heart of hearts he knew that the TWI he had created would be destroyed and there was nothing he could do about it. To know the work of a lifetime was going to be destroyed because you had picked the wrong man--that would have been very hard for VPW
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igotout
Yeah, it was a strange epitah. Didn't make sense. Indicitaive of a troubled man. You would have thought that he would have had John 10:10 on there or something similar as representative of his infamous PFAL class or somethng. Or maybe one of those verses from Ephesians he was so fond of.
But to have put "I wish I were the man I knew to be"
seems like a guilt trip, and as others have said an admission of sorts.
He should have just said on there "I'm sorry" and got it over with.
On mine I think I'll try for more of a sense of huimor:
"Here lies an atheist,
All dressed up and,
No place to go"
or
"I TOLD you I was sick!"
or
"Elvis
Live with it!"
or
"Once I wasn't
Then I was
Now I ain't again"
or
"To Read More Go to www.johnsdead.com"
or
"Ctrl, Alt, Del"
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excathedra
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shazdancer
Hi, Rejoice, so sorry to hear you went through living with someone with narcissistic personality disorder. I did also, and it can be a nightmare.
I think of that when I think of Mrs. Wierwille.
But it is also a living hell for the narcissist himself, who has built up this false image to be admired because his real self is so wounded. So in using and wounding others, he tries desperately to keep them from wounding him. No real friends, because he won't let them get close to him.
They say that narcissists often mellow as they get older, perhaps realizing that their masks are not working, perhaps just not having the energy it takes to sustain all the lies anymore. Perhaps this is where Wierwille found himself -- alone, due to his own fault.
He could have been a better man. But not even Christ was enough inspiration for him to be that.
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rascal
I WISH I were ????
A man of good moral character and personal integrety simply IS the man he knows to be....regardless of the situation and circumstances....no excuses.
It is the very least that we would expect from a christian...not to mention a man who desired to be a minister to God`s people.
Sounds to me like he was whining up till the very end....rather than actually taking responsibility for his life and actions and actually BEING the man he knew to be.
Strikes me as being a very weak person.
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satori001
I'd chip in to cover the cost if they changed the epitaph to "We wish you weren't the man you turned out to be."
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Tom Strange
hmmm... anyone good with photoshop?
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Jbarrax
It's a reference to a famous poem by Dylan Thomas. It's called "Do not go gentle into that goodnight" and is probably the best known and most oft-quoted poem about death.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
JerryB
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ckmkeon
What I can't understand is why we are trying to disect what a man is saying on his death bed. From what I have heard he was on different pain killers like morphine and iodine. There is a chance he did not know what he had said.
CK
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George Aar
Iodine is a painkiller?
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George Aar
And just to round out your knowledge of WayWorld lore a bit, CK (and trust me, that knowledge is sorely lacking) - it was years between Mr. Wierwille having his eye removed and his ultimate death. And he wasn't totally incapitated at that time. He did "Soundout '84" and some other crap during that period, so he still had command of his faculties...
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lindyhopper
From what I understand CK, this was not neccessarily what he said on his death bed, but something he said numerous times in his later years.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Wierwille's epitaph should have read "I wish I had been the man God wanted me to be instead of the jerk and fool I am". Can I get an Amen, brothers and sisters?
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
AMEN
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ChasUFarley
Since VPW seemed to like pomp and circumstance, I'm sure he came up with that epitaph l-o-n-g before the stone cutters needed it.
The thing that always struck me odd about that saying, was that the word "WISH" was in it. We weren't supposed to "WISH" for anything - we were supposed to BELIEVE for it.
Maybe he shoulda just said, "I should have believed harded."
-------------------------
If iodine is a pain killer, then I plan on opening up a serious pharmacy here in rural NH. To think, I've been using it as an antibacterial agent all these years when I could be selling it to the oxycodone-seeking crowd. Whoo-hoo! I'll be RICH! And I don't even need a 'script for it! BONANZA!
It's even legal to sell on eBay - oh, BOY!
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Belle
Perzackly, Chas!
Craiggers wouldn't have let him put that on his tombstone. How DARE vee pee use the word "wish"! :blink: I think that just confirms how possessed he was.
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topoftheworld
Hey, Belle's back!
Ok, for those who are just dense (meaning me) we are talking about the retorical statement VP made a while back, correct? Please tell me that he really didn't have that put on his stone.
Belle, I don't believe he was possessed. I think he was just sick, sad, and tired. No excuses for his behaviour, but he knew it was all coming to a boil, and he knew he blew it.
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Raf
It is abolutely on his gravestone.
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topoftheworld
Holy *****. I had no idea. Was the stone made before or after: i.e., was it his idea or Mrs.?
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Belle
Thanks, Top. :)
I apologize, that whole post was tongue in cheek. I knew it was on his gravestone. I think it's ironic, though, that TWI has gone so far from what their 'founding father' taught. Here is the founder with the word "wish" on his tombstone, yet no one in TWI is allowed to even say that word anymore. They may be today, but we couldn't say it when I was still involved not that long ago. They are reading teachings after vee pee poked so much fun at preachers for doing that....But that's a derail....
IF you substitute "believe" like craiggers said we should, then that would read "I believe I were the man I know to be." :huh: He can't even say that he believes he was the man he knew to be.
He knew he wasn't the man he knew to be. I only wish he was terribly sorry about that and about all the lives he destroyed.
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Amazingrace
Yes, Belle, the word "wish" just wasn't allowed.
IMO, I do think it is indicative of regrets. I interpret the epitaph
to be saying, as igotout, suggested, "I'm sorry".
Of course, there's no way vp would be able to comprehend
all that he had to be sorry for, but, IMO, I feel he knew he had
messed up big-time.
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dmiller
Death-bed confession?? I think so too.
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Tom Strange
well since we're all speculating here I'll (of course) throw in my two cents.... I just think it was posturing... to the end... posturing...
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