...and you'll never have that chance nandon (IMO)... to do so he'd have to admit guilt which would open up all sorts of liabilities for him and TWI... I'm sure his instructions (from the lawyers) were to shut up and go away...
...and you'll never have the chance with RFR or any of the others either for the same reasons...
I forgive him anyway. In fact, I forgave him a long time ago. Jesus forgave the heinous jackals who crucified him, and so, I want to do as Jesus did/does. But as you mentioned, that doesn't mean I would trust him again, but, I forgave him. It took me years to come to that point, but I realized that the bitterness that stirred within when me when I thought of all of that s h i t just wasn't doing me any good, and so, I did finally decide to forgive him. The first big step in the healing of my heart. Him and a number of limb leaders who'd done me and my wife dirty. And it has been good for my soul to have done so.
Although it's your business, I do suggest it. But it's the kind of thing that comes on your own time table. If I'd tried to forgive them all before I was ready, it wouldn't have been real, and I'd have still had the bitterness anyway. But when I finally looked it all over for the umpteenth time, I forgave 'em all, and I am thankful to God and Jesus Christ for being able to do so. Peace. I like it...
JesusChrist and God forgive everyone, but I am not JesusChrist and I am not God.
So...no, I am not forgiving LCM and the ministry for their oppresive tactics in ruining countless number of lives.
My life is not ruined because I didn't let them, but what about of the many people whose lives were ruined and shattered by them. Some of these people may not ever recover or are just too old to get back up after spending their entire lives in the ministry just to be kicked out to the curb.
Don't tell me that is most un-Christian thing to say or don't tell me that I can be the better man if I forgive them.
Sorry... Like I said, God forgives, but I am not God so I won't forgive them and I have every FRIGGING right to do so.
And, that is your right. You have freedom of will to do whatever you want to do. And that is perhaps one of the coolest things that I love about God. I wish you well, Free From Cults, and may you find peace after all of this, for I too know what it means to be shat upon. I am just saying that this is what I did to find peace, and I hope you find it too...
What we each have to forgive, is different. Some things take longer to work through than others.
And Ex10, if you had thoroughly read my post, you would have noticed that I said, and I quote myself;
Although it's your business, I do suggest it. But it's the kind of thing that comes on your own time table.
And so, maybe you had your situation, but, as a matter of fact, I was groped by a female clergywoman in the sewing department at HQ who also did not want to let me out of there. Oh yes, and as a guy, I was tempted. Maybe you weren't tempted, but I was. She was pretty, single, but as a Reverend, it was confusing and disturbing for me to have Rev S*s*n B*uld*n grabbing my **** when I thought she was there as a gift minister to "bless my life". Oh, but how could a young male actually "not want it"? Well damnit, I had a very pure heart and I was in the Corps because I wanted to serve God. I had already "done the World's thing", and I didn't go into the Corps for "more of the World".
So don't tell me that what you had to deal with was worse than what I had to deal with. And once again, I said it in my first post on this thread, everyone has their own timetable, and I was very clear and non-judgemental about that when I said it.
I still believe that forgiveness is the "pressure release valve" that helps us to be free of bitterness. Peace Sistah....
As an aside, if I had been stalked by LCM HIMself, yeah, I'd a flipped my lid and gotten the hell outa there! For, I have always preferred women ya see... :)
I am like some and have not forgiving him for what he has done. I more than likley would if he had an apoligy from the heart. I feel more sorry for the man for being a person that was entrusted with peoples lives and the trail of destruction he left behind all in the name of God. More than anything I think of him as a pityfull human muchless a MOG. Pure rotten trash is what lcm is.
I actually sort of have a little pity on folks like that (not much, but some). I am one to think that they, at least on some level, actually believed the lies they were telling.
As I said earlier, it's a big "if"
I do not have a bunch of personal hurt from the situation. Sure, I wasted ABS money on them rather than on something useful. Sure, I wasted God only knows how much time. Sure, it took me years afterwards to clear the garbage out of my head. But, on the other hand, unlike some, my wife was not a concubine for him. My daughter was not forced to have an abortion due to his direction. I wasn't personally hurt by him.
So in regards to the hate that prevents forgiveness...not really an issue with me. On a personal level, I'm beyond it. And I guess that's really the definition of forgiveness anyway. To send it away.
So why do you see me post on these TWI threads at all? Because even though I don't personally have a dog in the fight, I can see the theological underpinnings that enabled all of the abuses that did occur. And I feel compelled to identify with them. I want to commiserate with those who were hurt in the name of God in order to cooperate with their healing. And I want to help those who are still in to realize how that name has been abused to help cooperate in getting relief for them. And finally to help warn those who may, for some ungodly reason, consider subscribing to that group and its dangerous beliefs.
However, if LCM or any of his goons stalks me or my loved ones, you and the whole world will hear and know that there will be one less scumbag in this world.
LCM is a big bully and his "wannabes" are just as bad as being bullies. One can never reason with bullies. They also know about the "forgiving" part and they will use and abuse it. As long as they leave me alone, everything will be OK. I moved on, but I'll never forgive them and I will keep my guard up when it comes to them.
And, like I said in my first post, for me to forgive does not mean that I would ever trust him or them again, for I have learned that there is only One whom I would ever trust again. No, let me say that there are only Two whom I would trust. God and Jesus Christ.
And like you said FFC, "to each one their own", which does in fact fit with what I said in my second post when I said that God has given us all freedom of will to do as we choose... :)
I totally appreciate the desire to be given an honest "from the heart" apology. On a few occasions, I received this from ExWay leaders, and truly, it was like slipping into a hot jacuzzi after working on a cold, wet, commercial fishing boat for a week. One such apology came from one of the campus/Corps coordinators of Gunnison. He flat out told me that he'd been an a-hole and that he'd been on a power trip, and that he was terribly sorry that he'd been deceived into becoming a "lord over God's heritage". Yeah, he truly was/is a changed man. And so naturally it was very very easy to forgive him at that point when he said; "And I hope you can forgive me for I am so sorry". And I did, and we had a fine time talking about all of the "stuff". And, we laughed alot too!
And so, well hell ya the apology makes it so much better! But for those whom I will never see again who may well want to apologize and would if we ever met up again, and for those who don't feel the need to apologize, well, I personally choose to forgive them all. But, as Free From Cults mentioned, "to each his/her own". Peace out... :)
So don't tell me that what you had to deal with was worse than what I had to deal with. And once again, I said it in my first post on this thread, everyone has their own timetable, and I was very clear and non-judgemental about that when I said it.
Johnny, ??? I'm not talking about being "tempted" here. So you think the women who were raped and forced against their will were "tempted?" no worse that you were???
I think that is one way to be able to maintain a clear conscience ....simply minimalise the enormity of the betrayal suffered so that it doesn`t seem like such a big deal.
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...and you'll never have that chance nandon (IMO)... to do so he'd have to admit guilt which would open up all sorts of liabilities for him and TWI... I'm sure his instructions (from the lawyers) were to shut up and go away...
...and you'll never have the chance with RFR or any of the others either for the same reasons...
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Galen
I agree.
Knowing what I have been forgiven of, how can I do any less.
Though I can also well imagine the flood of lawsuits should the BOD ever publically admit wrong doing.
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J0nny Ling0
I forgive him anyway. In fact, I forgave him a long time ago. Jesus forgave the heinous jackals who crucified him, and so, I want to do as Jesus did/does. But as you mentioned, that doesn't mean I would trust him again, but, I forgave him. It took me years to come to that point, but I realized that the bitterness that stirred within when me when I thought of all of that s h i t just wasn't doing me any good, and so, I did finally decide to forgive him. The first big step in the healing of my heart. Him and a number of limb leaders who'd done me and my wife dirty. And it has been good for my soul to have done so.
Although it's your business, I do suggest it. But it's the kind of thing that comes on your own time table. If I'd tried to forgive them all before I was ready, it wouldn't have been real, and I'd have still had the bitterness anyway. But when I finally looked it all over for the umpteenth time, I forgave 'em all, and I am thankful to God and Jesus Christ for being able to do so. Peace. I like it...
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markomalley
Big if...
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templelady
Johnny Lingo says it well
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nandon
true mark
thanks lingo
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
lingo said it all
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FreeFromCults
JesusChrist and God forgive everyone, but I am not JesusChrist and I am not God.
So...no, I am not forgiving LCM and the ministry for their oppresive tactics in ruining countless number of lives.
My life is not ruined because I didn't let them, but what about of the many people whose lives were ruined and shattered by them. Some of these people may not ever recover or are just too old to get back up after spending their entire lives in the ministry just to be kicked out to the curb.
Don't tell me that is most un-Christian thing to say or don't tell me that I can be the better man if I forgive them.
Sorry... Like I said, God forgives, but I am not God so I won't forgive them and I have every FRIGGING right to do so.
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J0nny Ling0
And, that is your right. You have freedom of will to do whatever you want to do. And that is perhaps one of the coolest things that I love about God. I wish you well, Free From Cults, and may you find peace after all of this, for I too know what it means to be shat upon. I am just saying that this is what I did to find peace, and I hope you find it too...
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Oakspear
Couldn't resist...
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Tom Strange
you really like those sunglasses don't you Oak? :)
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ex10
not to be a big B, but...........
Johnny Lingo, you probably did't get stalked by LCM, or trapped in his guest room in Kipp with the door locked, either.
What we each have to forgive, is different. Some things take longer to work through than others.
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J0nny Ling0
Ex10, you said:
And Ex10, if you had thoroughly read my post, you would have noticed that I said, and I quote myself;And so, maybe you had your situation, but, as a matter of fact, I was groped by a female clergywoman in the sewing department at HQ who also did not want to let me out of there. Oh yes, and as a guy, I was tempted. Maybe you weren't tempted, but I was. She was pretty, single, but as a Reverend, it was confusing and disturbing for me to have Rev S*s*n B*uld*n grabbing my **** when I thought she was there as a gift minister to "bless my life". Oh, but how could a young male actually "not want it"? Well damnit, I had a very pure heart and I was in the Corps because I wanted to serve God. I had already "done the World's thing", and I didn't go into the Corps for "more of the World".
So don't tell me that what you had to deal with was worse than what I had to deal with. And once again, I said it in my first post on this thread, everyone has their own timetable, and I was very clear and non-judgemental about that when I said it.
I still believe that forgiveness is the "pressure release valve" that helps us to be free of bitterness. Peace Sistah....
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J0nny Ling0
AndEx10,
As an aside, if I had been stalked by LCM HIMself, yeah, I'd a flipped my lid and gotten the hell outa there! For, I have always preferred women ya see... :)
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justloafing
Wow what great points all of you!!!!!
I am like some and have not forgiving him for what he has done. I more than likley would if he had an apoligy from the heart. I feel more sorry for the man for being a person that was entrusted with peoples lives and the trail of destruction he left behind all in the name of God. More than anything I think of him as a pityfull human muchless a MOG. Pure rotten trash is what lcm is.
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markomalley
I actually sort of have a little pity on folks like that (not much, but some). I am one to think that they, at least on some level, actually believed the lies they were telling.
As I said earlier, it's a big "if"
I do not have a bunch of personal hurt from the situation. Sure, I wasted ABS money on them rather than on something useful. Sure, I wasted God only knows how much time. Sure, it took me years afterwards to clear the garbage out of my head. But, on the other hand, unlike some, my wife was not a concubine for him. My daughter was not forced to have an abortion due to his direction. I wasn't personally hurt by him.
So in regards to the hate that prevents forgiveness...not really an issue with me. On a personal level, I'm beyond it. And I guess that's really the definition of forgiveness anyway. To send it away.
So why do you see me post on these TWI threads at all? Because even though I don't personally have a dog in the fight, I can see the theological underpinnings that enabled all of the abuses that did occur. And I feel compelled to identify with them. I want to commiserate with those who were hurt in the name of God in order to cooperate with their healing. And I want to help those who are still in to realize how that name has been abused to help cooperate in getting relief for them. And finally to help warn those who may, for some ungodly reason, consider subscribing to that group and its dangerous beliefs.
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FreeFromCults
Lingo,
To each one their own.
However, if LCM or any of his goons stalks me or my loved ones, you and the whole world will hear and know that there will be one less scumbag in this world.
LCM is a big bully and his "wannabes" are just as bad as being bullies. One can never reason with bullies. They also know about the "forgiving" part and they will use and abuse it. As long as they leave me alone, everything will be OK. I moved on, but I'll never forgive them and I will keep my guard up when it comes to them.
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J0nny Ling0
And, like I said in my first post, for me to forgive does not mean that I would ever trust him or them again, for I have learned that there is only One whom I would ever trust again. No, let me say that there are only Two whom I would trust. God and Jesus Christ.
And like you said FFC, "to each one their own", which does in fact fit with what I said in my second post when I said that God has given us all freedom of will to do as we choose... :)
Signed,
"Lingo"
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J0nny Ling0
Just Loafing:
I totally appreciate the desire to be given an honest "from the heart" apology. On a few occasions, I received this from ExWay leaders, and truly, it was like slipping into a hot jacuzzi after working on a cold, wet, commercial fishing boat for a week. One such apology came from one of the campus/Corps coordinators of Gunnison. He flat out told me that he'd been an a-hole and that he'd been on a power trip, and that he was terribly sorry that he'd been deceived into becoming a "lord over God's heritage". Yeah, he truly was/is a changed man. And so naturally it was very very easy to forgive him at that point when he said; "And I hope you can forgive me for I am so sorry". And I did, and we had a fine time talking about all of the "stuff". And, we laughed alot too!
And so, well hell ya the apology makes it so much better! But for those whom I will never see again who may well want to apologize and would if we ever met up again, and for those who don't feel the need to apologize, well, I personally choose to forgive them all. But, as Free From Cults mentioned, "to each his/her own". Peace out... :)
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ex10
Johnny, ??? I'm not talking about being "tempted" here. So you think the women who were raped and forced against their will were "tempted?" no worse that you were???
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rascal
I think that is one way to be able to maintain a clear conscience ....simply minimalise the enormity of the betrayal suffered so that it doesn`t seem like such a big deal.
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FreeFromCults
Since I said "To Each Their Own". Let me tell you my wishes to LCM and his brown-nosing wannabes:
1) That they go thru what everyone who suffered at their hands had went through.
2) That they be at the receiving end of what they did to others before kicking and running them out.
and I wish that they live thru all of our sufferings until their last stinking breath.
I don't want them to die or suicide. I want them to REALLY live and feel for eternity what we went thru.
You can FLAME me for saying this: I am not and will not wish them the best.
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Tom Strange
Forgiveness or not... they should be in prison...
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
ffc as others have said here i wasn't critticaly hurt by any of thoes as33h33ls
but hurt some
and i have choosen to forgive them
not to forget though
and i would never flame you for wishing them a life that they brought to others
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