believe this pope (Benedict) is more corrupt then Pope John Paul II, this pope has ties with the communist party and the nazis.
The Nazis? the Communists?
How so?
Got something for us all to read on that?
Jesus was sort of communal, and so was Paul . . . I dont count that all bad as I am undecided about Jesus' political and social leanings although I am pretty sure capitalism and personal gain were not his top priorities when he spoke his mind and lived his life.
What kind of connection to the Nazi's and Communists did (does) Benedict have?
Jesus was sort of communal, and so was Paul . . . I dont count that all bad as I am undecided about Jesus' political and social leanings although I am pretty sure capitalism and personal gain were not his top priorities when he spoke his mind and lived his life.
What kind of connection to the Nazi's and Communists did (does) Benedict have?
I don't have information to read but while listening to FOX News and CNN they reported that as a young man he fought against the allies with the axis powers. Not only did he fight but he was promoted to Lieutenant during the Nazi rule in Eurpoe. I have done nothing else to verify this information.
ckmkeon - WW2 was in 1940-ish - to 1943 ( correct me on the dates here)
Soooo. if this Pope was, well, let's be generous and say 15 when he fought - and that was at least 60 years ago, that would make this Pope almost 75.
I just don't think you heard those facts correctly. Not insulting you, but no matter what your source for info, you have to try to get the facts straight and keep thinking.
Now maybe this Pope had relatives that fought in that war...
I'll google him and find out his age....just to make sure I'm not gettting ahead of myself ..I'll get back to you
Ok I wasn't right, but here are the facts on his early life. it seems that the sound bite you got on CNN and Fox just wasn't as thorough as it could be - then of course hearing things on TV usually isn't enough. IMHO
Ditto!! Well, it's abundantly clear that your clueless, that's for sure!
CK
WOW, I'm just reeling from that awsome verbal assault! What a comeback!
You might as well have said, "I know you are, but what am I?"
Where did you learn how to wage war? France?
Dooj, don't confuse the poor boy with facts. He's so brainwashed, he won't hear a word you say.
Hey, I'd love to stay and listen to more of your crap Zippy, but I have to go work. If you can think of a better comeback, I'll come back and play more, but honestly, your getting real boring.
Actually, ckmkeon reminds me of how I was in TWI and how I was as a teen. I was selective in who I attributed "smart" status to and actually listened to. My judgement wasn't always the best in that regard and if someone said something I didn't want to believe or acknowledge I would just ignore them or dismiss what they said....usually it was my parents I did this to. They're much smarter nowadays, though.
I was talking to my therapist once about the Holocaust and how I listened to Corrie Ten Boom talk about hiding Jews in the walls of their house; see the pictures she and her sister shared from that time; read the Diary of Ann Frank; talk to actual survivors of the concentration camps, etc.
Then here comes some leader from TWI telling me that the Holocaust didn't really happen. It was exaggerated. It was a RC conspiracy. It was all a farce and I threw out all that knowledge I had and all the experiences I had with reliable, respected experts to adopt the TWI stance on the Holocaust.
I've come full circle and I still don't know why I threw out all that I had learned growing up to merely take someone at their word. Illogical. Idiotic. Unnatural.
As a youngster we don't always check our facts and we don't always make the right choice on who to believe. Heck, most adults don't even do that. Look at all the Urban Legends that continue to get passed along in e-mails just because people are too lazy to check out the facts when Snopes.com lays it on the line in one neat little place where it only takes a few seconds to verify the rumor before passing along bogus information. We have some of those folks here and when confronted with the truth they get mad at the people pointing it out.
Coming from TWI and the deception some of us have learned the lesson all too well and are maybe more thorough and more skeptical in our responses to information than the average bear. Good for us! But we also have to remember that others may not be there yet and some may never get there.
I'll climb off the soapbox and pass it back to Socks. The velvet is really nice and comfy, Mo. Thanks for sharing it. :)
I didn't see our country co-ord. name on the list !! How about this..encouraged a couple to have a baby (against their wishes) I think it was a new twi policy @ the time, to increase their numbers or something.
Baby died, due to incompatible blood types from parents. After they had 'grieved' were then 'reemed' along with all of us about lack of believing.
TOLD to have another baby (against doctors advice) Guess what ? second baby lived for 10 days then passed away.
This happened one more time again (hard to believe but true). Then they left twi, later on divorced.
J Lingo knows the gal.
This Oirish idiot now has apparently been 'promoted' to a position of leadership at h.q.
Belle, I have no idea what people are talking about when they say that TWI encouraged belief that the holocaust was a fraud. Yes, I had seen a book in the library at Emporia (I think it was "The Myth of the 6 Million), but it was one of hundreds of books, and I guess I just thought somebody had donated it and it stayed in. (Cleaning the library was one of my jobs, so I saw most of the books.) If I recall correctly, "The Hiding Place" was also there. Maybe I'm naive, but I tend(ed) to think the best, not the worst.
I can tell you that during my interim Corps year my entire WOW branch went to see Corrie Ten Boom speak at a convention in Houston, and then as a group, we went to see "The Hiding Place", which had been released a few years earlier. It made a big impact on all of us, and we had nothing but positive things to say about it. I have read the book many times, and it has inspired me at some low points in my life.
Never during my 10 year history in TWI was anything said on this subject. If that changed later, it is disgraceful, and in all probabilty was something LCM pushed. Just seems like something he would do.
By the way, I recently acquired the DVD, and it is chock full of stories on Corrie's life. If you can, do a Goggle and you'll find a bookstore where you can get it.
Wayfernot..that's why people can carry on all they want about a new 'softer' side of twi now being displayed but when I hear that callous 'bustards' like him have been promoted, I know twi is still on track to hell.
Top, there have been some discussions about this on here, but I can't exactly remember what was posted about vee pee's reign. I do know that craig had a few tirades about how the Jews were claiming that they were "owed" this and that from people and that it was all b.s. because of the hoax that the holocaust was.
The Thirteenth Tribe and The Myth of the Six Million were on the list of books that were "suggested" reading for us in the 90's and we know that suggestion from leadership is tantamount to a command. ;)
I'll see if I can find the other discussion on this...
As for working in the library....didn't you just LOVE it? I worked in the library during college and fell even more in love with reading than I already had. I would take forever to shelve the books that were returned because I would flip through so many of them and sometimes get lost reading through them and have to work late to "catch up" on my shelving.
I cleaned the library-so I didn't have a lot of time to read-but, yeah, I snuck as many peeks as I could.
I actually enjoyed that assignment, because I had an appreciation for the building itself and it's history. I also was aware of all the work previous Corps groups had done to bring it to it's glory and to maintain it.
Top, those "no Holocaust" books were sold in twi's bookstore in the 70s and 80s, and VP was the prime promoter. I believe he touched on this during the AC when I took it at Emporia in '77. I remember thinking, "What difference does it make if all 6 million were Jewish or not. If 6 million people got slaughtered, how does their religious/ethnic background change the horror of that one iota?"
Top, I did a brief search and this is what I found. I'm sure there's more on here, but this will get you started on what others experienced, heard and remember. :)
HCW’s account of how his daughter confronted a bunch of TWIt kids who derided and harassed a Holocaust survivor at their school to the point that they reduced the lady to tears. These kids are taught from birth that the Holocaust didn’t happen.
As a matter of fact, they weren’t allowed to go on field trips to DC because part of the agenda was a visit to the Holocaust Memorial.
I didn't read through all Belle's links, but I do remember vp saying we probably wouldn't have been any worse off (or did he say might have been better off?) if Germany had won the war.
edited ... after reading the other notes ... I guess I should say I remember it as vp saying that .. it could have been craig or someone saying vp said it ... but it is something that definitely stuck in my brain as coming from vp ...
Thanks for the info. I can still say that I do not recall anything anti-semetic coming directly from VP-at least not up until I left in 82. Doesn't mean it didn't happen-I just never heard it.
WOW, I'm just reeling from that awsome verbal assault! What a comeback!
You might as well have said, "I know you are, but what am I?"
Where did you learn how to wage war? France?
Dooj, don't confuse the poor boy with facts. He's so brainwashed, he won't hear a word you say.
Hey, I'd love to stay and listen to more of your crap Zippy, but I have to go work. If you can think of a better comeback, I'll come back and play more, but honestly, your getting real boring.
I wasn't creating a comeback I was trying to give you some advise. Well if I am so boring then why come back and play?? Why don't you go to work and never come back because your getting boring. The only reason you are here is to argue.
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The Nazis? the Communists?
How so?
Got something for us all to read on that?
Jesus was sort of communal, and so was Paul . . . I dont count that all bad as I am undecided about Jesus' political and social leanings although I am pretty sure capitalism and personal gain were not his top priorities when he spoke his mind and lived his life.
What kind of connection to the Nazi's and Communists did (does) Benedict have?
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ckmkeon
I don't have information to read but while listening to FOX News and CNN they reported that as a young man he fought against the allies with the axis powers. Not only did he fight but he was promoted to Lieutenant during the Nazi rule in Eurpoe. I have done nothing else to verify this information.
CK
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doojable
ckmkeon - WW2 was in 1940-ish - to 1943 ( correct me on the dates here)
Soooo. if this Pope was, well, let's be generous and say 15 when he fought - and that was at least 60 years ago, that would make this Pope almost 75.
I just don't think you heard those facts correctly. Not insulting you, but no matter what your source for info, you have to try to get the facts straight and keep thinking.
Now maybe this Pope had relatives that fought in that war...
I'll google him and find out his age....just to make sure I'm not gettting ahead of myself ..I'll get back to you
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doojable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI
Ok I wasn't right, but here are the facts on his early life. it seems that the sound bite you got on CNN and Fox just wasn't as thorough as it could be - then of course hearing things on TV usually isn't enough. IMHO
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topoftheworld
Note then he joined the Hitler Youth at the age of fourteen because it was a requirement-not at all unusual for many young men in Hitler's Germany.
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Bluzeman
WOW, I'm just reeling from that awsome verbal assault! What a comeback!
You might as well have said, "I know you are, but what am I?"
Where did you learn how to wage war? France?
Dooj, don't confuse the poor boy with facts. He's so brainwashed, he won't hear a word you say.
Hey, I'd love to stay and listen to more of your crap Zippy, but I have to go work. If you can think of a better comeback, I'll come back and play more, but honestly, your getting real boring.
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Belle
Actually, ckmkeon reminds me of how I was in TWI and how I was as a teen. I was selective in who I attributed "smart" status to and actually listened to. My judgement wasn't always the best in that regard and if someone said something I didn't want to believe or acknowledge I would just ignore them or dismiss what they said....usually it was my parents I did this to.
They're much smarter nowadays, though.
I was talking to my therapist once about the Holocaust and how I listened to Corrie Ten Boom talk about hiding Jews in the walls of their house; see the pictures she and her sister shared from that time; read the Diary of Ann Frank; talk to actual survivors of the concentration camps, etc.
Then here comes some leader from TWI telling me that the Holocaust didn't really happen. It was exaggerated. It was a RC conspiracy. It was all a farce and I threw out all that knowledge I had and all the experiences I had with reliable, respected experts to adopt the TWI stance on the Holocaust.
I've come full circle and I still don't know why I threw out all that I had learned growing up to merely take someone at their word. Illogical. Idiotic. Unnatural.
As a youngster we don't always check our facts and we don't always make the right choice on who to believe. Heck, most adults don't even do that. Look at all the Urban Legends that continue to get passed along in e-mails just because people are too lazy to check out the facts when Snopes.com lays it on the line in one neat little place where it only takes a few seconds to verify the rumor before passing along bogus information. We have some of those folks here and when confronted with the truth they get mad at the people pointing it out.
Coming from TWI and the deception some of us have learned the lesson all too well and are maybe more thorough and more skeptical in our responses to information than the average bear. Good for us! But we also have to remember that others may not be there yet and some may never get there.
I'll climb off the soapbox and pass it back to Socks. The velvet is really nice and comfy, Mo. Thanks for sharing it. :)
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
aren't you glad you grew up belle?! let's hope the ck will too!
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allan w.
I didn't see our country co-ord. name on the list !! How about this..encouraged a couple to have a baby (against their wishes) I think it was a new twi policy @ the time, to increase their numbers or something.
Baby died, due to incompatible blood types from parents. After they had 'grieved' were then 'reemed' along with all of us about lack of believing.
TOLD to have another baby (against doctors advice) Guess what ? second baby lived for 10 days then passed away.
This happened one more time again (hard to believe but true). Then they left twi, later on divorced.
J Lingo knows the gal.
This Oirish idiot now has apparently been 'promoted' to a position of leadership at h.q.
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Nottawayfer
Omigosh Allan. What a heartless bastage! I feel so bad for those parents.
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topoftheworld
Belle, I have no idea what people are talking about when they say that TWI encouraged belief that the holocaust was a fraud. Yes, I had seen a book in the library at Emporia (I think it was "The Myth of the 6 Million), but it was one of hundreds of books, and I guess I just thought somebody had donated it and it stayed in. (Cleaning the library was one of my jobs, so I saw most of the books.) If I recall correctly, "The Hiding Place" was also there. Maybe I'm naive, but I tend(ed) to think the best, not the worst.
I can tell you that during my interim Corps year my entire WOW branch went to see Corrie Ten Boom speak at a convention in Houston, and then as a group, we went to see "The Hiding Place", which had been released a few years earlier. It made a big impact on all of us, and we had nothing but positive things to say about it. I have read the book many times, and it has inspired me at some low points in my life.
Never during my 10 year history in TWI was anything said on this subject. If that changed later, it is disgraceful, and in all probabilty was something LCM pushed. Just seems like something he would do.
By the way, I recently acquired the DVD, and it is chock full of stories on Corrie's life. If you can, do a Goggle and you'll find a bookstore where you can get it.
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allan w.
Wayfernot..that's why people can carry on all they want about a new 'softer' side of twi now being displayed but when I hear that callous 'bustards' like him have been promoted, I know twi is still on track to hell.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
and darn fast one i hope
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Belle
Top, there have been some discussions about this on here, but I can't exactly remember what was posted about vee pee's reign. I do know that craig had a few tirades about how the Jews were claiming that they were "owed" this and that from people and that it was all b.s. because of the hoax that the holocaust was.
The Thirteenth Tribe and The Myth of the Six Million were on the list of books that were "suggested" reading for us in the 90's and we know that suggestion from leadership is tantamount to a command. ;)
I'll see if I can find the other discussion on this...
As for working in the library....didn't you just LOVE it? I worked in the library during college and fell even more in love with reading than I already had. I would take forever to shelve the books that were returned because I would flip through so many of them and sometimes get lost reading through them and have to work late to "catch up" on my shelving.
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topoftheworld
I cleaned the library-so I didn't have a lot of time to read-but, yeah, I snuck as many peeks as I could.
I actually enjoyed that assignment, because I had an appreciation for the building itself and it's history. I also was aware of all the work previous Corps groups had done to bring it to it's glory and to maintain it.
I assume it's still there...
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Linda Z
Top, those "no Holocaust" books were sold in twi's bookstore in the 70s and 80s, and VP was the prime promoter. I believe he touched on this during the AC when I took it at Emporia in '77. I remember thinking, "What difference does it make if all 6 million were Jewish or not. If 6 million people got slaughtered, how does their religious/ethnic background change the horror of that one iota?"
Not one of the brighter sides of the VP era.
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Belle
Top, I did a brief search and this is what I found. I'm sure there's more on here, but this will get you started on what others experienced, heard and remember. :)
TWIt Kids Harrassing Survivor
HCW’s account of how his daughter confronted a bunch of TWIt kids who derided and harassed a Holocaust survivor at their school to the point that they reduced the lady to tears. These kids are taught from birth that the Holocaust didn’t happen.
As a matter of fact, they weren’t allowed to go on field trips to DC because part of the agenda was a visit to the Holocaust Memorial.
Catcup
From Catcup, a very reliable source of information on vee pee, the research in TWI and leadership teachings:
Hammeroni's Thread
A thread started by Hammeroni on TWI and the Holocaust teachings.
ToadFriend's Thread
Toad Friend’s thread on the Holocaust teachings of TWI
vee pee & the Nazi Party
A thread on vee pee’s connections to the Nazi Party.
TWIt Kids Denied
TWIt kids denied visits to the Holocaust Museum
Thirteenth Tribe
On vee pee promoting The Thirteenth Tribe.
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rhino
I didn't read through all Belle's links, but I do remember vp saying we probably wouldn't have been any worse off (or did he say might have been better off?) if Germany had won the war.
edited ... after reading the other notes ... I guess I should say I remember it as vp saying that .. it could have been craig or someone saying vp said it ... but it is something that definitely stuck in my brain as coming from vp ...
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topoftheworld
Thanks for the info. I can still say that I do not recall anything anti-semetic coming directly from VP-at least not up until I left in 82. Doesn't mean it didn't happen-I just never heard it.
Just another nail in the coffin, I guess.
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Linda Z
It's not unusual at all for our experiences in twi to differ widely, TOTW, as I'm sure you've noticed. :)
Heck, I was at HQ for 4 years and had no clue about the hanky panky going on. Ya just had to be at the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time.
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ckmkeon
I wasn't creating a comeback I was trying to give you some advise. Well if I am so boring then why come back and play?? Why don't you go to work and never come back because your getting boring. The only reason you are here is to argue.
CK
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doojable
Where was the advice???? I looked at the post and didn't find any.
why not get back to the topic and quit the squirmishes - you're derailing your own thread..
just some advice...
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ckmkeon
You are right.
The Question was who was the worst leader. My answer was Pope Benedict my advise is to stay as far as you can from the roman cathoilc church.
CK
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
and just exactly do you know about the rc church ck?
and don't tell me about priest molesting kids.
it happens there and in every other denomination too
the rc imo does more charity work in the world than any
other sect certainly more than twi
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