first you wrote that you told your FC (?) that you post here.. then you say that you were surprized to see that you were aloud to take the class since you log on here and post here. so do they know or not? AND .. of course the WAY is gonna look good to you right now ( at first ) and of course they are going to be nice and loving to you. if they said " please join our fellowship!, we are liars, thieves, we support rapists, and our organization is a very corrupt one. ect, ect .... .................. would you join? NO . so of course it is gonna look good.
good luck if you are happy, just keep your heart off your sleeve. and if you have family that is in, and you leave, be O.K. with having a very $*@!ty relationship with them. cuz trust me you will. and it hurts.
It really depends on what we mean by "working the Word" I think.
I'm a proponent of reading the bible. Reading different versions, reading. That's one basic suggestion from PFAL that pays off IMO. Many people say they believe the bible cover to cover, word for word, that have never read it cover to cover word for word, even once. So on one level, they really don't believe it, they haven't read it.
To accept it on faith, that's fine but it's different. IMO that really doesn't mean a faith in the bible itself - it can't. Remember, if you don't know what it says how can you really have faith in it? To me that's more a faith in God and a belief that if God inspired the people who wrote it than it's worth believing. So it's a faith in God more than the bible. A person who has that find of faith is, again, fine but they may end up believing anything anyone tells them the bible says. After all, how would they know?
Work the Word - by that if we mean reading it and trying to understand and allow God to open it's meaning up to us, I think anyone can do that. With a few simple tools and a little instruction meaningful study can be done.
But the reading of the bible is the most valuable IMO. The ideas and concepts will open up to a person over time, and as interest grows in specific things more information can be sought out.
Walter Cummins was the one I was thinking of that studied Greek. There was another man that studied the Aramaic extensively and had a lot to do with the interlinear that was written. He parted ways with twi sometime after 1985, but I'm not clear on exactly when.
I agree, there are different levels of "working the word". Someone with a good sense of logic and a concordance (maybe a few other tools) can gain a lot of understanding.
But, I do think a more thorough knowlege of Greek/Aramaic, and of the history of various Biblical versions and ancient texts is necessary for someone in a research department. I do realize that wasn't the case with a lot of the folks in twi's research department, and I know some very good-hearted folks did some very good-hearted work. But I also know, if you disagreed with VP or Craig, you didn't STAY on the research team, so what does that tell you about their motives or honesty or integrity?
Ricky,
I'm sorry if we seem to be attacking you. It isn't fair of us to dismiss your current situation as untrue. It's just hard for those of us who were treated so callously and deceitfully to trust what is on the surface regarding anything twi. So, your guy says he knows you are on the web and doesn't care that you post. I think what most of us here are trying to say is: Good for him. Good for you. Watch your back.
Either twi has decided they cannot control the world wide web and are genuinely backing down, or they are pulling a "China". (At the old Advanced Classes, Vic used to play us a tape by a western man that lived through regime changes in China (or some such eastern culture)... the regime would be VERY strict for awhile, then loosen up the rules... just long enough for anyone bold enough to dissent to voice their opinions and give themselves away... then they would round up these dissidents, have them killed or imprisoned and go back to VERY strict rules again. The man said he saw this happen over and over again, but people were so desperate to believe that things would be better, some fell for the "loosening of rules" every single time it was done.) Only time will truly tell. But for those of us who lived through POP, and the 90's, our experience says, "looks good, but I'm betting on 'China'". We've just seen it happen too many times, first hand.
It was Benita Jess and I think Mal George who headed up the Aramaic research at TWI, having studied with George Lamsa and Rocco Errico(who has his own group called Noodrha Foundation in Smyrna ,GA). As for research, I would consider retired Lutheran Proffessor Frederick Danker from the Lutheran School of Theology at the University of Chicago and his book Multi-Purpose Tools for Bible Study from Augsburg/Fortress Press(Minneapolis).
Bernita Jess did the Orientalisms, and some of the Aramaic work, but I don't think she had the chops to be the driving force behind the interlinear. I don't think that Mal George was the guy either...would be very surprised if he was. Gary Curtis maybe?
Dear Faithful in the Household of the Prevailing Word:
We all know your first foundation of PFAL was old wineskins leaving you open to attacks of the adversary! We lovingly worked tirelessly to present a new foundation to allow you to stand firm in the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word.
We regret to inform you that your second foundation (WAP) was taught by the devil.
Please report to your nearest WC minister for parasite removal through our even newer, better, really has been improved class!
If they put this on DVD to be shown in local fellowships, will they be able to keep it permanently or UPS/Fed-EXed over the state/region hq? Are they willing to show it even to 1 person, free of cost, no matter the headache TWI might get? Does this mean Rosie, Donna, John Rupp, etc need to start working in fast food or
window washing, and surrender their salaries, perks,etc. Maybe I am expecting a geniune miracle. Maybe the shock will render the BOT/D with cardiac arrest, finally closing down the organization. One can always hope.
I have no idea what the new department is working on now so I have to pleed ignorance. And again I am have just returned to fellowhip since my parents chose to leave in the late 90's. I did take Martindales class in and I did enjoy some of it very much. Other parts I found harsh or hard to swollow. Like I had said before Im a college student and I cannot put myself into the shoes of others whose experiences with TWI have been different. And I will never try to downplay others experiences. All I can tell is what I know and what I am experiencing. I am happy to say that since my return all my experiences have been great. And yes my FC knows that I do log on here and have posted. This is only my 11 post yet I have spent many a night surfing the memories of others. When I told him he didn't seem to care. I asked "dont you think I will go online and tell everybody what is going on in the ministry?" He responded "What in the world would you have to tell them. That were running a successful college fellowship and presenting the Word to those who want it." If anything else was going on I would be more than happy to share it and the first time I encounter a someting that leaves a bad taste in my mouth you better believe that I will let you know. And I was never pressured into retaking the class at all. I was actually a little suprised I am alud to take it being that I only recently came back and that they do know that I have been in the cafe. I was suprised because their acceptance didnt seem to fit with the stuff I read about. Or maybe I am just working with some really loving people. I dont know and agian I dont want to down play others experiences. I would really like to know what type of research is being done too. I am a classics major majoring in Greek and I think I might study some materials to learn how to really work the Word. Does anybody have any suggestions on how to really start? (beyond the biblical truths you must adhere to) haha. But That leads me to another topic. Does anybody really need to have a PHD in theology or a MDiv to work the WOrd. No I dont think that you do. You just have to have good teachers and a desire to get to the truth rather making the Word fit an already preconieved theology. That is where researches went wrong in the past (people using the allegorical method to make the Word fit the church.) Any suggestions. And I will let you knwo any developments.
Without derailing this thread - my hubby (TWI 81-88), who has a minor in the Classics (degree in Mathematics), and who is also Greek (first generation American - yes, he speaks it very well) - says that the Greek used by Bible scholars and what you're learning in college (Classical or Modern Greek) will all be different in how it is spoken. You may have figured this out already - here's a great link hubby recommends to help:
By the way, I don't doubt that you are in with a good group of people - I truly believe there are still some good people around - otherwise, no one would bother going... If it works for you, then that's great (and I sincerely mean it...)
From the sns tape a while back ........... IT is free to grads, it is NOT mandatory. The only thing to pay for is the syllabus ( I never could spell that word) $20, IF you CHOSE too. I think there is three teachers, I don't remember who (sorry, I don't keep the tapes after I listen to them) They perfer if you attend 10 out of 12 sessions as a grad.
It is suppose to be a combo of pfal and wap. Toned down and aimed more toward building you up a son of God.
So far...........the new twi class is reported as a combination of pfal/wap.
Like.......what else COULD they say??? :blink:
Very diplomatic of them, doncha think?.........not to say, "Well, the wap class was full of over-the-top b.s. and, besides, the corps had trouble pitching for it." Or, "We think that martindale's interpretation of the lesbo/serpent situation was one among many detours and distractions in the wap class."
Combination of pfal/wap...........TRANSLATION: Both of our past presidents, our leading mogs, taught us the scriptural truth that the churches do not teach. We are moving forward with another great class.
Was "the law of believing" up front and center....?? Was twi's doctrine, "the word takes the place of the absent Christ" included to focus only on da word, da word and only those things that twi says about da word?
Anyone want to step forward and share some highlights..??
SafariVista, this would be completely in the realm of what they would do. Heck, they've done way more outlandish things than that with regards to people posting on here.
Pretty pathetic, isn't it?
TWIts:
What on earth would you care about people posting on here if you actually were a legit religious group?
Why on earth would people posting about you on the Internet bug you so much if your group was "beyond reproach"?
Does it not strike you as "odd" that they track, trace and snoop around on folks?
Mebbee it is JR - if so - Looking forward to reading how many classes and new folks are coming and sticking around. Can't wait to hear about how "transparent" the organization has become so that folks aren't kept in the dark anymore.
What I have heard is that even the innies are saying loyboy had one thing right. He could hold your interest while he was teaching! Seems like the 3 teaching the video class are stiff and stuck to their chair. That would go along with the other more recent class with the syrupy sweet C**lters teaching.
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Jade
rick,
first you wrote that you told your FC (?) that you post here.. then you say that you were surprized to see that you were aloud to take the class since you log on here and post here. so do they know or not? AND .. of course the WAY is gonna look good to you right now ( at first ) and of course they are going to be nice and loving to you. if they said " please join our fellowship!, we are liars, thieves, we support rapists, and our organization is a very corrupt one. ect, ect .... .................. would you join? NO . so of course it is gonna look good.
good luck if you are happy, just keep your heart off your sleeve. and if you have family that is in, and you leave, be O.K. with having a very $*@!ty relationship with them. cuz trust me you will. and it hurts.
sami
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socks
rickyG
It really depends on what we mean by "working the Word" I think.
I'm a proponent of reading the bible. Reading different versions, reading. That's one basic suggestion from PFAL that pays off IMO. Many people say they believe the bible cover to cover, word for word, that have never read it cover to cover word for word, even once. So on one level, they really don't believe it, they haven't read it.
To accept it on faith, that's fine but it's different. IMO that really doesn't mean a faith in the bible itself - it can't. Remember, if you don't know what it says how can you really have faith in it? To me that's more a faith in God and a belief that if God inspired the people who wrote it than it's worth believing. So it's a faith in God more than the bible. A person who has that find of faith is, again, fine but they may end up believing anything anyone tells them the bible says. After all, how would they know?
Work the Word - by that if we mean reading it and trying to understand and allow God to open it's meaning up to us, I think anyone can do that. With a few simple tools and a little instruction meaningful study can be done.
But the reading of the bible is the most valuable IMO. The ideas and concepts will open up to a person over time, and as interest grows in specific things more information can be sought out.
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TheHighWay
Walter Cummins was the one I was thinking of that studied Greek. There was another man that studied the Aramaic extensively and had a lot to do with the interlinear that was written. He parted ways with twi sometime after 1985, but I'm not clear on exactly when.
I agree, there are different levels of "working the word". Someone with a good sense of logic and a concordance (maybe a few other tools) can gain a lot of understanding.
But, I do think a more thorough knowlege of Greek/Aramaic, and of the history of various Biblical versions and ancient texts is necessary for someone in a research department. I do realize that wasn't the case with a lot of the folks in twi's research department, and I know some very good-hearted folks did some very good-hearted work. But I also know, if you disagreed with VP or Craig, you didn't STAY on the research team, so what does that tell you about their motives or honesty or integrity?
Ricky,
I'm sorry if we seem to be attacking you. It isn't fair of us to dismiss your current situation as untrue. It's just hard for those of us who were treated so callously and deceitfully to trust what is on the surface regarding anything twi. So, your guy says he knows you are on the web and doesn't care that you post. I think what most of us here are trying to say is: Good for him. Good for you. Watch your back.
Either twi has decided they cannot control the world wide web and are genuinely backing down, or they are pulling a "China". (At the old Advanced Classes, Vic used to play us a tape by a western man that lived through regime changes in China (or some such eastern culture)... the regime would be VERY strict for awhile, then loosen up the rules... just long enough for anyone bold enough to dissent to voice their opinions and give themselves away... then they would round up these dissidents, have them killed or imprisoned and go back to VERY strict rules again. The man said he saw this happen over and over again, but people were so desperate to believe that things would be better, some fell for the "loosening of rules" every single time it was done.) Only time will truly tell. But for those of us who lived through POP, and the 90's, our experience says, "looks good, but I'm betting on 'China'". We've just seen it happen too many times, first hand.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
It was Benita Jess and I think Mal George who headed up the Aramaic research at TWI, having studied with George Lamsa and Rocco Errico(who has his own group called Noodrha Foundation in Smyrna ,GA). As for research, I would consider retired Lutheran Proffessor Frederick Danker from the Lutheran School of Theology at the University of Chicago and his book Multi-Purpose Tools for Bible Study from Augsburg/Fortress Press(Minneapolis).
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Oakspear
Bernita Jess did the Orientalisms, and some of the Aramaic work, but I don't think she had the chops to be the driving force behind the interlinear. I don't think that Mal George was the guy either...would be very surprised if he was. Gary Curtis maybe?
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Tom Strange
Re: the old, good, research department... weren't Catcup and ResearchGeek in on this stuff?
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ex10
It was Dan Mc of the 7th, Geek, John S. to name a few.
I think Dan was the main guy.
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skyrider
New TWI Class....
No matter how twi SPINS it, this new foundational class reveals....
...1) Martindale and some wap class doctrine is now REMOVED from twi.
...2) The fallout of the martindale fiasco NEEDS a twi-facelift.
...3) It took almost SIX YEARS, after the Allen settlement, to change the intro class.
...4) All that $$$$ spent on the wap class was a REALLY BAD investment....your abs.
...5) Re-newing of class......re-newing of INNIE commitment??? Twi is watching.
...6) GROOMING and acceptance of upcoming twit leadership is on the threshold.
...7) Rosalie can "take credit" for ushering twi thru this TURBULENT time.
...8) New foundational class.....new STARTING LINE for more hoop-jumping.
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wingnut
Dear Faithful in the Household of the Prevailing Word:
We all know your first foundation of PFAL was old wineskins leaving you open to attacks of the adversary! We lovingly worked tirelessly to present a new foundation to allow you to stand firm in the Promised Land of the Prevailing Word.
We regret to inform you that your second foundation (WAP) was taught by the devil.
Please report to your nearest WC minister for parasite removal through our even newer, better, really has been improved class!
Have we ever steered you wrong before?
Love
Your BOT
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TheHighWay
Yes, Dan is who I was thinking of... genuine Aramaic scholar.
Research Geek.... where are you?
(He could probably give us more insight into the research dept.)
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Kevlar2000
And, since every class offered by the Way has to have at least one dumb joke, I would like to offer this one:
Why did the chicken cross the road?
In the Greek, the word for "cross" is stauros...
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Kevlar, don't give up your day job. You won't make it on the comedy club circuit.
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Kevlar2000
You're right about that! :D
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topoftheworld
I thought it was hysterical!
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
If they put this on DVD to be shown in local fellowships, will they be able to keep it permanently or UPS/Fed-EXed over the state/region hq? Are they willing to show it even to 1 person, free of cost, no matter the headache TWI might get? Does this mean Rosie, Donna, John Rupp, etc need to start working in fast food or
window washing, and surrender their salaries, perks,etc. Maybe I am expecting a geniune miracle. Maybe the shock will render the BOT/D with cardiac arrest, finally closing down the organization. One can always hope.
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lindyhopper
Kevlar - Not thick, just funny as hell
lmao, thanks.
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ChasUFarley
==================================================================
Rick --
Welcome to the Cafe!
Without derailing this thread - my hubby (TWI 81-88), who has a minor in the Classics (degree in Mathematics), and who is also Greek (first generation American - yes, he speaks it very well) - says that the Greek used by Bible scholars and what you're learning in college (Classical or Modern Greek) will all be different in how it is spoken. You may have figured this out already - here's a great link hubby recommends to help:
http://faculty.bbc.edu/RDecker/nt_gram.htm
By the way, I don't doubt that you are in with a good group of people - I truly believe there are still some good people around - otherwise, no one would bother going... If it works for you, then that's great (and I sincerely mean it...)
Again, welcome!
-Krista
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skyrider
So far...........the new twi class is reported as a combination of pfal/wap.
Like.......what else COULD they say??? :blink:
Very diplomatic of them, doncha think?.........not to say, "Well, the wap class was full of over-the-top b.s. and, besides, the corps had trouble pitching for it." Or, "We think that martindale's interpretation of the lesbo/serpent situation was one among many detours and distractions in the wap class."
Combination of pfal/wap...........TRANSLATION: Both of our past presidents, our leading mogs, taught us the scriptural truth that the churches do not teach. We are moving forward with another great class.
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oldiesman
Ricky, please feel free to share what you are being taught in the class.
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skyrider
Well...............
Was it just a re-hash......???
Was "the law of believing" up front and center....?? Was twi's doctrine, "the word takes the place of the absent Christ" included to focus only on da word, da word and only those things that twi says about da word?
Anyone want to step forward and share some highlights..??
:)
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Belle
The chairs are more comfortable, does that count?
I'm sure ricky hasn't checked back in because he's desperately trying to find something good to report. *snicker*
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SafariVista
While reading Rickyg's posts I could see a clear picture of a guy that looked much like like John Rupp...
maybe not... BUT... I wouldn't put it past them~
Department of Way Land Security: Online Recovery Division
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Belle
SafariVista, this would be completely in the realm of what they would do. Heck, they've done way more outlandish things than that with regards to people posting on here.
Pretty pathetic, isn't it?
TWIts:
What on earth would you care about people posting on here if you actually were a legit religious group?
Why on earth would people posting about you on the Internet bug you so much if your group was "beyond reproach"?
Does it not strike you as "odd" that they track, trace and snoop around on folks?
Mebbee it is JR - if so -
Looking forward to reading how many classes and new folks are coming and sticking around. Can't wait to hear about how "transparent" the organization has become so that folks aren't kept in the dark anymore.
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penguin
What I have heard is that even the innies are saying loyboy had one thing right. He could hold your interest while he was teaching! Seems like the 3 teaching the video class are stiff and stuck to their chair. That would go along with the other more recent class with the syrupy sweet C**lters teaching.
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