Allan your post reminded me ,the other day at fellowship we were talking about this how come so many leaders and researchers in the Way are named John?
I believe the way today is as or more than corrput than a catholic church. But someday in the past when Dr.Wierwille was there he said some truth but he was a man not Jesus or God. Everyman has error that includes VPW, LCM, AND TWI. I think it would be better for the Way to close there doors than to corrupt another person. The teachings of research by Dr.Wierwille were the best of his ability. The TWI today is wrong they would be better off not teaching at all and just sell the old material
God Bless
ckmckeon
I agree with MOST of this.
What I disagree with was the idea that vpw's "work" was
"the best of HIS ability."
It's been documented that "vpw's" work was the best that
he was able to plagiarize from the work of OTHERS.
Bullinger wrote on death, and his stuff was rewritten into
"Are the Dead Alive Now?"
BG Leonard taught a class, and 3 months after vpw
sat thru the entire class, vpw taught the EXACT same class
with HIS name on it.
JE Stiles wrote a book, and vpw rewrote it into the 1st
The book "Jesus Christ our passover" was written by an 8th corps guy...it was the paper that he turned in for his thesis (with some filler added by other research papers)...Wierwille never consulted with the guy, he just published it and put his own name on it...word for word.
Play God? What a rediculous statement. One that appears to be designed to make it safe to ignore clear scriptural instruction.
You simply seem to be uncomfortable with the exposing of the sins/behaviors/fruit that unquestioningly reveal vpw to be a man of the flesh...incidently a fact which looses him credibility as a minister or a teacher.
I can only surmise that folks still need so desperatly to still feel *right* and special, that it is unbearable to think that contrary to our fondly held image we held of ourselves as super conquering Christians.....with ALL of our knowledge........we were in reality foolish.......that we were betrayed and tricked into serving darkness....and thrown away like so much garbage when our usefullness exhausted.
The need to still feel special is so important, that tsometimes we will readily employ any means to dismiss the evidence of the true nature of the source of our beliefs.\
Just my opinion, but the only reason that I can figure out why people insist on covering/hiding/ignoring the pain and devisation this *dead man* caused ......
CK, your statement is based on no facts or experience to back it up. I am trying to be patient because my daughter is almost your age and I understand where you are coming from. I respect that you believe strongly .... I wish that you would at least investigate the source of your belief before ferociously defending an evil man.
I do not see how you can say that God was a source in twi when you know that our sisters in Christ were drugged and raped, that our brothers lives were destroyed....our children abused and molested and our unborn babies killed.
If God was in twi....why on earth would he call people to that??? Didn`t he have for knowledge? Wouldn`t he know that someone would die by following twi leaders orders???
IF vpw was a false prophet however, it makes all of the sense in the world....use scripture to disarm the warey....to quiet the fears ...use scriptures to clothe your form and move among the flock disguised .....and then to steal, to kill, and to destroy....the srcriptures describe them as revening wolves.
You are laying some pretty ugly actions done to some truly wonderfull people who seeked only to love and serve God....bsed on your unsubstantiated personal opinion son.
Play God? What a rediculous statement. One that is designed to make it safe to ignore scriptural instruction.
You simply seem to be uncomfortable with the exposing of the sins/behaviors/fruit that unquestioningly reveal vpw to be a man of the flesh...incidently a fact which looses him credibility as a minister or a teacher.
I think that folks still need so desperatly to still feel *right* and special.
It is unbearable to think that contrary to our fondly held image we held of ourselves as super conquering Christians.....with ALL of our knowledge....we were in reality foolish....that we were betrayed and tricked into serving darkness.
The need to still feel special is so important, that tsometimes we will readily employ any means to dismiss the evidence of the true nature of the source of our beliefs.
One thing to consider, though, Rascal, is that his theology was messed up (see jerry's pfal errors study for some examples). This gave a doctrinal basis to allow the horrible abuses that he personally and directly was responsible for and the abuses he encouraged, condoned, and/or ignored. It also explains why the abuses under successive regimes appeared worse than under his.
..and that would differentiate vpw how from a false prophet or wolf in sheeps clothing?
Do not false prophets use scriptures? Do they not rely on the subtlety of their disguise? Do they not ALWAYS have doctrinal bases in order to silence the cries of protest?
The danger that I see is in ignoring a *dead mans sins* is that this dangerous doctrinal basis will be promoted and continued ....hurting yet more innocent souls.
Abuse was started very early on in the pfal sessions. Remember "Breath Life" God breathed life into Adam. So in other words a fetus was not alive until he/she was born and breathed. So according to vp the fetus was not alive but was a parasite(Yes he said this). This alone could justify why their were many abortions performed. It was twi doctrine and the only way to keep that baby was to go against what twi taught and leave.
The man was a hack and twisted scripture to benifit him.
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allan w.
Yes but the Way leadership would lose their 'gravy train'
I thank God for the John Schonheits, John Lynns, John Shroyers, Wayne Clapps and everyone helping them.
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WhiteDove
Allan your post reminded me ,the other day at fellowship we were talking about this how come so many leaders and researchers in the Way are named John?
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Stayed Too Long
Could it be they are all johns? or have gotten dear johns? or went to the john?
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allan w.
I don't know White Dove..and they are all the same age too !
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Oakspear
this sounds like a science fiction movie
Buckaroo Banzai! all the aliens were named John!
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WordWolf
I agree with MOST of this.
What I disagree with was the idea that vpw's "work" was
"the best of HIS ability."
It's been documented that "vpw's" work was the best that
he was able to plagiarize from the work of OTHERS.
Bullinger wrote on death, and his stuff was rewritten into
"Are the Dead Alive Now?"
BG Leonard taught a class, and 3 months after vpw
sat thru the entire class, vpw taught the EXACT same class
with HIS name on it.
JE Stiles wrote a book, and vpw rewrote it into the 1st
edition of the White Book.
Later versions of PFAL (originally taught as
"Receiving the Holy Spirit Today" by vpw,
later renamed by him)
and the White Book itself
("Receiving the Holy Spirit Today")
incorporated the work of OTHER Christians
as well, in a cut-and-paste fashion.
(Mostly Bullinger in BOTH cases.)
"vpw's" later books- "Jesus Christ Our Passover"
and "Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed"
were written by the research dept, and vpw
added an introduction and the words
"BY Victor Paul Wierwille" to the cover.
All of this explains why "his" "writing style"
changes RADICALLY from book to book,
and has NO common markers from book to book.
He didn't "write" them at all.
He either adapted them or they were ghost-written
by the staff.
None of this is news.
We've been discussing it for years here.
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ckmkeon
The Way I believe was good but the downward fall took them out
CK
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dmiller
What do you mean by *the downward fall*?
IMO -- the downward fall was because they fell into the grave they dug for themselves.
Maybe you have a different explanation?
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GrouchoMarxJr
The book "Jesus Christ our passover" was written by an 8th corps guy...it was the paper that he turned in for his thesis (with some filler added by other research papers)...Wierwille never consulted with the guy, he just published it and put his own name on it...word for word.
The guy posts here at Greasespot....
...maybe he'd like to comment?
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Oakspear
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johniam
quote: how come so many leaders and researchers in the Way are named John?
I heard somewhere recently that according to a poll the name John was the most boring male name.
quote: The Way I believe was good but the downward fall took them out
It sure was good for me. All these people who are intent on listing the sins of a dead man are simply trying to play God.
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WordWolf
Bully for you.
Those good times you had were at the expense of bad times inflicted
on others. I don't begrudge you good times, but they don't negate
the suffering.
Since that's not
"all without exception",
that must mean
"all with a distinction".
The distinction being, apparently,
all the people as he imagines them...
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Oakspear
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rascal
Play God? What a rediculous statement. One that appears to be designed to make it safe to ignore clear scriptural instruction.
You simply seem to be uncomfortable with the exposing of the sins/behaviors/fruit that unquestioningly reveal vpw to be a man of the flesh...incidently a fact which looses him credibility as a minister or a teacher.
I can only surmise that folks still need so desperatly to still feel *right* and special, that it is unbearable to think that contrary to our fondly held image we held of ourselves as super conquering Christians.....with ALL of our knowledge........we were in reality foolish.......that we were betrayed and tricked into serving darkness....and thrown away like so much garbage when our usefullness exhausted.
The need to still feel special is so important, that tsometimes we will readily employ any means to dismiss the evidence of the true nature of the source of our beliefs.\
Just my opinion, but the only reason that I can figure out why people insist on covering/hiding/ignoring the pain and devisation this *dead man* caused ......
CK, your statement is based on no facts or experience to back it up. I am trying to be patient because my daughter is almost your age and I understand where you are coming from. I respect that you believe strongly .... I wish that you would at least investigate the source of your belief before ferociously defending an evil man.
I do not see how you can say that God was a source in twi when you know that our sisters in Christ were drugged and raped, that our brothers lives were destroyed....our children abused and molested and our unborn babies killed.
If God was in twi....why on earth would he call people to that??? Didn`t he have for knowledge? Wouldn`t he know that someone would die by following twi leaders orders???
IF vpw was a false prophet however, it makes all of the sense in the world....use scripture to disarm the warey....to quiet the fears ...use scriptures to clothe your form and move among the flock disguised .....and then to steal, to kill, and to destroy....the srcriptures describe them as revening wolves.
You are laying some pretty ugly actions done to some truly wonderfull people who seeked only to love and serve God....bsed on your unsubstantiated personal opinion son.
Please educate yourself a little better.
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markomalley
One thing to consider, though, Rascal, is that his theology was messed up (see jerry's pfal errors study for some examples). This gave a doctrinal basis to allow the horrible abuses that he personally and directly was responsible for and the abuses he encouraged, condoned, and/or ignored. It also explains why the abuses under successive regimes appeared worse than under his.
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rascal
..and that would differentiate vpw how from a false prophet or wolf in sheeps clothing?
Do not false prophets use scriptures? Do they not rely on the subtlety of their disguise? Do they not ALWAYS have doctrinal bases in order to silence the cries of protest?
The danger that I see is in ignoring a *dead mans sins* is that this dangerous doctrinal basis will be promoted and continued ....hurting yet more innocent souls.
Edited by rascalLink to comment
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justloafing
Abuse was started very early on in the pfal sessions. Remember "Breath Life" God breathed life into Adam. So in other words a fetus was not alive until he/she was born and breathed. So according to vp the fetus was not alive but was a parasite(Yes he said this). This alone could justify why their were many abortions performed. It was twi doctrine and the only way to keep that baby was to go against what twi taught and leave.
The man was a hack and twisted scripture to benifit him.
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