OR, we could realize that with some 5,000 different renditions of The Bible, varying in meaning from "slight" to "extreme" that there's never going to be a definitive "WORD OF GOD". Furthermore that it's pretty unlikely that an all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful god would have ever set up a method to make Himself known to His creation that is so frought with peril and errors.
Then, we could just get on with living life, trying to be moderately decent to each other, without yet another manufactured chism to divide us and engender strife.
But, whaddu I know? I guess arguing over whose god is the strongest is more fun (not to mention all the "unbelievers" we can damn to hell)...
One we are talking about GOD killing people, who he has warned he will do just that if they continue to behave in the manner they are
and
Two --we are talking about people dying as a result of illness, accident, or old age. We lost immortality when we left the Garden of Eden --death is part of life.
He did tell them evil will happen, and the bible sounds as if to say it would be Him. It is a figure of speech. It was not Him who killed anyone because the OT believer did not have a Savior; they had no means to fight Gods enemy, Satan.
God always saves His people and those who loved Him to the utter most as in the case of Sodom and Noah. The bible says the people had nothing but evil thoughts NOTHING but evil thoughts, God allowed no harm to those who believed in HIM.
God did all He could to save the bloodline of Jesus Christ. God is Love. God will never harm you in any way and has sent His son to save you.
Death is not part of life it is an enemy.
How awful your day most be thinking at any whim or mood swing God your father can change His mind and murder you or allow you to be killed. I just can not imagine such a life, how could one possibly pray to such a God?
1corinthins 15:24-26
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God and the Father after he has destroyed all
Dominion, authority and power.
For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
THE LAST ENEMY TO BE DESTROYED IS DEATH.
Hebrews 10:12,13
But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.
SINCE THAT TIME he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.
Now before you ACCUSE Jesus Christ of being a KILLER lets look at
ACTS 10:38
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy spirit and power and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
23And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost. Acts 12:23 (KJV)
There are many similar verses in the bible and I could do this all day...but I'd be told I lacked understanding, the bible didn't really mean what it said, etc. etc.
that is why one can NOT just read the bible and get the understanding of Jesus heart and purpose or God love for His creation.
that is why it says study, not just take a look and guess.
People opposed to God will suffer coolwaters, all will suffer today we have sin , no where does it say in your reference that God almighty gave Herod Agrippa I worms or Elymas the sorcerer , it was an ACT of God to DEFEND His people from people who where trying to hurt them. (Herod gave up the ghost)
no where does it say God harmed them, he can turn them over to Satan to keep evil men out of HIS church.
to protect His Children. God is a serious LOVER of His people . no doubt. He hurts no one .
it says to study to show yourself approved before God.
to just try to guess and insult and maybe this or that , causes confusion and divsion in the church.
many do not want to know the truth .
they like confusion for whatever reason , and divsion.
others who chose to "show themselves approved before God ", study the scripture to understand its many facets and all knowing truth.
So by insulting me you can AVOID the TRUTH that:NO WHERE in your reference does it say GOD GAVE HEROD the worms.
So your God is a killer but he isnt my God, that is for sure.
how do you play coolwaters if you lose you just start insulting me? and claim you do not have time or energy? go get your buddys? and change the topic all kind of games are played it still doesn not change the scripture that God is LOVE always without question.
it says to study to show yourself approved before God.
to just try to guess and insult and maybe this or that , causes confusion and divsion in the church.
many do not want to know the truth .
they like confusion for whatever reason , and divsion.
others who chose to "show themselves approved before God ", study the scripture to understand its many facets and all knowing truth.
pond,
Your last sentence above says, "study the scripture to understand its many facets and all knowing truth".
Your first sentence from your last post says, "that is why one can NOT just read the bible and get the understanding of Jesus heart and purpose or God love for His creation."
Either you can read the bible and "understand its many facets and all knowing truth" or you can't "just read the bible and get the understanding".
a reading of a bible verse here and there will confuse you sometimes because it does have figures of speech and employs idioms and many other language
usages.
figures of speech are a BIG deal in the bible.
huge ! and without understanding them and what they mean confusion can easily happen on some subjects.
do not ask me why God didnt make it simple for us He is the one who says we need to STUDY and then another factor is FAITH...
an unbeliever can read the bible and it means nothing to him/her. Just a story like any other story.
so styill avoiding my question on where does it say in your bible reference that God gave him the worms? it doesnt so keep it going or just admit it.
pond,
WHAT is a person suppose to study? The bible. Right?
HOW does one study the bible? By reading it, comparing verses with verses, context with context, words with words. Right?
Or are you implying that there are other books one needs to be able to study the bible?
And btw...if you can't understand simple english for yourself, I'm not going to interpret it for you...because I don't buy into that any longer. Re-read that scripture and see if you can figure out what it says. You've missed it twice already.
did you go to college, high school, or ever write a paper with your own ideas?
Study is study.
but isnt a magic formula I believe prayer and faith is also needed .
God esteems His words very high within his priorities, and it helps while living in a fallen world to understand what the issues are in life and how to solve. them with Gods instructions .
ok show me coolwater where does it say God gave Herod the worms?
Tthe reason you keep NOT telling me has nothing to do with me it is all about the fact it is not written there at all.
call me all the names you want .. whatever you need to do to avoid putting it down yourself ...
it does NOT say that God gave Herod the worms at all . You just wish it did to avoid admiting your wrong, about your reference on how God kills people.
simple english .
and that is why God asks us to study our own self so we know what it says for our self, to stand approved before God.
otherwise every idiot who thinks they know what it means or what they think it should mean, will confuse you . or out right try to trick you into believing it says something that is not in the bible at all!!!!
Tthe reason you keep NOT telling me has nothing to do with me it is all about the fact it is not written there at all.
call me all the names you want .. whatever you need to do to avoid putting it down yourself ...
it does NOT say that God gave Herod the worms at all . You just wish it did to avoid admiting your wrong, about your reference on how God kills people.
Look pond,
You said, "Tthe reason you keep NOT telling me has nothing to do with me..."
Yes it does. If you thought for one minute that I ever said or insinuated that 'god gave Herod the worms' it is most certainly because you heard that in your own head because I never said it or implied it.
You said, "it is all about the fact it is not written there at all."
Duh.
You said, "call me all the names you want..."
I NEVER called you names.
You said, ".. whatever you need to do to avoid putting it down yourself ..."
Huh?
You said, "it does NOT say that God gave Herod the worms at all ."
Again, DUH.
You said, "You just wish it did to avoid admiting your wrong,".
Again, I didn't say it said that...YOU did.
You said, "about your reference on how God kills people."
OK, pond, if you think that, have a blast.
Obviously it doesn't matter at all what anybody...God or otherwise...says in plain English...you're going to make things up in your head and go from there.
Well, it's been 20 years since I left the Way. Yesterday, I decided to google the Way International. Looking around, I find this place. It blows my mind, after all these years, people are still talking about their life in the ministry. What an impact this has had on all our lives.
All the ugliness aside, we've got some amazing memories, to cherish.
There are many similar verses in the bible and I could do this all day...but I'd be told I lacked understanding, the bible didn't really mean what it said, etc. etc.
Just like in pfal...
ok cool waters . the thread was about whether one can read the bible and understand it fully. and you said in a God kills (shall I quote that as well?) it is on the previous page.
then YOU put in this little diddy above to prove your point.
But it didnt work because it does not say God gave Herod worms or in any way harmed or had intent to harm him.
Care to explain your own self? cant keep up? or just angry cause I can?
it is very boring to read people who backtrack and make false accusations.
quote me sweetie pie where I said God our Father gave Herolds worms the false accusations, are shameful , first God then me, people tend to that when they lie.
Um...making 'god' in one's own image isn't biblical at all.
God kills. Simple.
You don't like that? So? It's biblical...if you read the whole bible.
Even you admit that.
Just because you happen to agree with His reason for killing in some situations (to preserve Jesus' bloodline is the example you gave, I believe) but not in others...well, pond, that just shows your desire to make god into your own image...
Can you back up and see the forest? It helps when having doctrinal discussions...imo...+
You back up cool waters . and you had better erase your above post to be thought the noble bible scholar you wish you were.
God ask us to study so we do not be ASHAMED , of what ? maybe you can clarify.
maybe calling the Father of mankind a KILLER for starts hmm?
Well, it's been 20 years since I left the Way. Yesterday, I decided to google the Way International. Looking around, I find this place. It blows my mind, after all these years, people are still talking about their life in the ministry. What an impact this has had on all our lives.
All the ugliness aside, we've got some amazing memories, to cherish.
Hiya mckeanj! I know others have already welcomed you, but now I'm welcoming you.
So there! :D
For many (including myself), there really were some amazing and wonderful times during our stay with the Way.
For others, it was a nightmare from hell.
Generally, it seemed the closer one was in proximity to the "head honchos", the more horror stories there are to tell. But that's just a personal observation from reading the forums. Your mileage may vary (YMMV).
Now....Back to the pillowfight...um, I mean, the discussion! ;)
STUDy to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed , rightly dividing the word of truth.
But shun profane and vain babblings : for they shall increase unto more ungodliness. II Timothy 2:16
CK
the same chapter vs 18 the bible goes on to warn what could happen it says this vain bablblings can "overthrow the faith of some".
That is serious stuff CK to think our faith can be overthrown by what people can say the bible says... that is why I say we need to study to fully understand what God is communicating to His people .
I would be ashamed of telling somone my God kills anyone , who would want a God like that? really it is a shame to even think such a way (God clearly does not want us to feel shame ) .. so we need to work at our studies to get our understanding to the point we can not lose our faith, by those willing to use profane and vain babblings and more ungodliness.
God says it will spread like gangrene. serious word huh?
to be approved by God this is His request. per the book of II Timothy.
Why would I want to read the "Koran" I would turn into Saddam or Osama
CK
That is a pretty racist statment CKM. Are you are saying that all middle eastern people (who are muslim or islamic and who BTW WHO ARE NOT terrorists) are like Osama or Saddam??
Kevlar2000, thanks for the welcome. I best get moving or Cool Waters will bust me for off topic discussion. I'm still not sure how I even found my way back to this thread. I guess I'll go get lost somewhere else.
you can't reason with someone who refuses to acknowledge that they MIGHT be working from a faulty knowledge base.
When you read posts from persons that are so disorganized in their thought processes, that they are in some parts almost illegible in terms of understanding them, it is time to let them paddle their little boat in thelr little pond all by themselves
It's a tour of the site given by our illustrious WordWolf and he definitely has a way with words and knows how to explain things very well. I think that link will give you a great overview and maybe help you from getting lost.
BTW, aren't ya gonna eat that brownie? I saw Tom Strange drooling over them on the "Pot" Thread in open and I'm afraid he might eat yours too if you don't eat it. AND if you aren't planning on eating it, I wanted it. ;)
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ex10
ckm, no offense intended, but "knowledge of the word" is what got everybody in trouble to start with. "Knowledge of the word"without a relationship with Jesus causes no end of pain and heartache. I
pond
I have thought this way before as well. Well if the "word" says it then lets just do it. Now I loook at who is saying when where and just how and could care less if the fact a chapter and ver
lindyhopper
As far as I know, the bird is still the word. If it has changed please let me know.
George Aar
OR, we could realize that with some 5,000 different renditions of The Bible, varying in meaning from "slight" to "extreme" that there's never going to be a definitive "WORD OF GOD". Furthermore that it's pretty unlikely that an all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful god would have ever set up a method to make Himself known to His creation that is so frought with peril and errors.
Then, we could just get on with living life, trying to be moderately decent to each other, without yet another manufactured chism to divide us and engender strife.
But, whaddu I know? I guess arguing over whose god is the strongest is more fun (not to mention all the "unbelievers" we can damn to hell)...
O.K., I've done my "witnessing" for today...
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templelady
apples and oranges
One we are talking about GOD killing people, who he has warned he will do just that if they continue to behave in the manner they are
and
Two --we are talking about people dying as a result of illness, accident, or old age. We lost immortality when we left the Garden of Eden --death is part of life.
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pond
Not apples and oranges, God has killed no one.
He did tell them evil will happen, and the bible sounds as if to say it would be Him. It is a figure of speech. It was not Him who killed anyone because the OT believer did not have a Savior; they had no means to fight Gods enemy, Satan.
God always saves His people and those who loved Him to the utter most as in the case of Sodom and Noah. The bible says the people had nothing but evil thoughts NOTHING but evil thoughts, God allowed no harm to those who believed in HIM.
God did all He could to save the bloodline of Jesus Christ. God is Love. God will never harm you in any way and has sent His son to save you.
Death is not part of life it is an enemy.
How awful your day most be thinking at any whim or mood swing God your father can change His mind and murder you or allow you to be killed. I just can not imagine such a life, how could one possibly pray to such a God?
1corinthins 15:24-26
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God and the Father after he has destroyed all
Dominion, authority and power.
For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
THE LAST ENEMY TO BE DESTROYED IS DEATH.
Hebrews 10:12,13
But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.
SINCE THAT TIME he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.
Now before you ACCUSE Jesus Christ of being a KILLER lets look at
ACTS 10:38
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy spirit and power and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
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CoolWaters
There are many similar verses in the bible and I could do this all day...but I'd be told I lacked understanding, the bible didn't really mean what it said, etc. etc.
Just like in pfal...
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pond
that is why one can NOT just read the bible and get the understanding of Jesus heart and purpose or God love for His creation.
that is why it says study, not just take a look and guess.
People opposed to God will suffer coolwaters, all will suffer today we have sin , no where does it say in your reference that God almighty gave Herod Agrippa I worms or Elymas the sorcerer , it was an ACT of God to DEFEND His people from people who where trying to hurt them. (Herod gave up the ghost)
no where does it say God harmed them, he can turn them over to Satan to keep evil men out of HIS church.
to protect His Children. God is a serious LOVER of His people . no doubt. He hurts no one .
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CoolWaters
Everything else one says after a statement like that is suspect at best...beguiling at worst.
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pond
Then why do you leave out my next sentence ?
it says to study to show yourself approved before God.
to just try to guess and insult and maybe this or that , causes confusion and divsion in the church.
many do not want to know the truth .
they like confusion for whatever reason , and divsion.
others who chose to "show themselves approved before God ", study the scripture to understand its many facets and all knowing truth.
So by insulting me you can AVOID the TRUTH that:NO WHERE in your reference does it say GOD GAVE HEROD the worms.
So your God is a killer but he isnt my God, that is for sure.
how do you play coolwaters if you lose you just start insulting me? and claim you do not have time or energy? go get your buddys? and change the topic all kind of games are played it still doesn not change the scripture that God is LOVE always without question.
Im never bequiled.
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CoolWaters
pond,
Your last sentence above says, "study the scripture to understand its many facets and all knowing truth".
Your first sentence from your last post says, "that is why one can NOT just read the bible and get the understanding of Jesus heart and purpose or God love for His creation."
Either you can read the bible and "understand its many facets and all knowing truth" or you can't "just read the bible and get the understanding".
Which is it?
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pond
STUDY is not just reading.
Study is study reading is reading.
a reading of a bible verse here and there will confuse you sometimes because it does have figures of speech and employs idioms and many other language
usages.
figures of speech are a BIG deal in the bible.
huge ! and without understanding them and what they mean confusion can easily happen on some subjects.
do not ask me why God didnt make it simple for us He is the one who says we need to STUDY and then another factor is FAITH...
an unbeliever can read the bible and it means nothing to him/her. Just a story like any other story.
so styill avoiding my question on where does it say in your bible reference that God gave him the worms? it doesnt so keep it going or just admit it.
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CoolWaters
pond,
WHAT is a person suppose to study? The bible. Right?
HOW does one study the bible? By reading it, comparing verses with verses, context with context, words with words. Right?
Or are you implying that there are other books one needs to be able to study the bible?
And btw...if you can't understand simple english for yourself, I'm not going to interpret it for you...because I don't buy into that any longer. Re-read that scripture and see if you can figure out what it says. You've missed it twice already.
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pond
study the words of the bible.
it cant get any easier to understand .
did you go to college, high school, or ever write a paper with your own ideas?
Study is study.
but isnt a magic formula I believe prayer and faith is also needed .
God esteems His words very high within his priorities, and it helps while living in a fallen world to understand what the issues are in life and how to solve. them with Gods instructions .
ok show me coolwater where does it say God gave Herod the worms?
Tthe reason you keep NOT telling me has nothing to do with me it is all about the fact it is not written there at all.
call me all the names you want .. whatever you need to do to avoid putting it down yourself ...
it does NOT say that God gave Herod the worms at all . You just wish it did to avoid admiting your wrong, about your reference on how God kills people.
simple english .
and that is why God asks us to study our own self so we know what it says for our self, to stand approved before God.
otherwise every idiot who thinks they know what it means or what they think it should mean, will confuse you . or out right try to trick you into believing it says something that is not in the bible at all!!!!
imagine that happening??? hmmm.
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CoolWaters
Look pond,
You said, "Tthe reason you keep NOT telling me has nothing to do with me..."
Yes it does. If you thought for one minute that I ever said or insinuated that 'god gave Herod the worms' it is most certainly because you heard that in your own head because I never said it or implied it.
You said, "it is all about the fact it is not written there at all."
Duh.
You said, "call me all the names you want..."
I NEVER called you names.
You said, ".. whatever you need to do to avoid putting it down yourself ..."
Huh?
You said, "it does NOT say that God gave Herod the worms at all ."
Again, DUH.
You said, "You just wish it did to avoid admiting your wrong,".
Again, I didn't say it said that...YOU did.
You said, "about your reference on how God kills people."
OK, pond, if you think that, have a blast.
Obviously it doesn't matter at all what anybody...God or otherwise...says in plain English...you're going to make things up in your head and go from there.
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mckeanj
Well, it's been 20 years since I left the Way. Yesterday, I decided to google the Way International. Looking around, I find this place. It blows my mind, after all these years, people are still talking about their life in the ministry. What an impact this has had on all our lives.
All the ugliness aside, we've got some amazing memories, to cherish.
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pond
ok cool waters . the thread was about whether one can read the bible and understand it fully. and you said in a God kills (shall I quote that as well?) it is on the previous page.
then YOU put in this little diddy above to prove your point.
But it didnt work because it does not say God gave Herod worms or in any way harmed or had intent to harm him.
Care to explain your own self? cant keep up? or just angry cause I can?
it is very boring to read people who backtrack and make false accusations.
quote me sweetie pie where I said God our Father gave Herolds worms the false accusations, are shameful , first God then me, people tend to that when they lie.
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pond
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CoolWaters
pond,
Forget it...
I've known forever not to even try a decent conversation with you...
So I'm stopping now...
Blather on without me...
TYVM...
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pond
hahahahahahha
lololololl
thought so .
not so mighty when called for the shots are ya coolwaters?
haha
what a joke.
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CoolWaters
Dang...I was trying to c&p...not reply...or quote...or anything...dang....can a moderator erase this by any chance?
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Kevlar2000
Hiya mckeanj! I know others have already welcomed you, but now I'm welcoming you.
So there! :D
For many (including myself), there really were some amazing and wonderful times during our stay with the Way.
For others, it was a nightmare from hell.
Generally, it seemed the closer one was in proximity to the "head honchos", the more horror stories there are to tell. But that's just a personal observation from reading the forums. Your mileage may vary (YMMV).
Now....Back to the pillowfight...um, I mean, the discussion! ;)
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pond
STUDy to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed , rightly dividing the word of truth.
But shun profane and vain babblings : for they shall increase unto more ungodliness. II Timothy 2:16
CK
the same chapter vs 18 the bible goes on to warn what could happen it says this vain bablblings can "overthrow the faith of some".
That is serious stuff CK to think our faith can be overthrown by what people can say the bible says... that is why I say we need to study to fully understand what God is communicating to His people .
I would be ashamed of telling somone my God kills anyone , who would want a God like that? really it is a shame to even think such a way (God clearly does not want us to feel shame ) .. so we need to work at our studies to get our understanding to the point we can not lose our faith, by those willing to use profane and vain babblings and more ungodliness.
God says it will spread like gangrene. serious word huh?
to be approved by God this is His request. per the book of II Timothy.
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Nottawayfer
That is a pretty racist statment CKM. Are you are saying that all middle eastern people (who are muslim or islamic and who BTW WHO ARE NOT terrorists) are like Osama or Saddam??
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mckeanj
Kevlar2000, thanks for the welcome. I best get moving or Cool Waters will bust me for off topic discussion. I'm still not sure how I even found my way back to this thread. I guess I'll go get lost somewhere else.
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templelady
CW
you can't reason with someone who refuses to acknowledge that they MIGHT be working from a faulty knowledge base.
When you read posts from persons that are so disorganized in their thought processes, that they are in some parts almost illegible in terms of understanding them, it is time to let them paddle their little boat in thelr little pond all by themselves
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Belle
I don't even know how you read those mj posts.
I can't understand what's being said half the time, so I gave up. You have my admiration, CW. :)
mckeanj - It can be hard learning your way around at first. For the most part we really are pretty harmless.
I'd recommend getting lost here first: Welcome to the Greasespot Cafe!
It's a tour of the site given by our illustrious WordWolf and he definitely has a way with words and knows how to explain things very well. I think that link will give you a great overview and maybe help you from getting lost.
BTW, aren't ya gonna eat that brownie? I saw Tom Strange drooling over them on the "Pot" Thread in open and I'm afraid he might eat yours too if you don't eat it. AND if you aren't planning on eating it, I wanted it. ;)
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