I remember my husband's complete look of astonishment when I was on the phone to a leader wife who asked me to babysit her kids. 'Ask you husband to see if it is all right,' she commanded. So I turned to my husband and asked if him if I could baby sit. He was all, I don't know, can you?
After the call ended I had to explain what that was all about. He thought it was ridiculous.
That was one of the reasons I wanted to stick things out and keep my marriage together when TWI got into our business so much--my husband really did ( and does) respect me. He has never treated me like a stupid child.
We never did get into the tattle trap, either, even though our leadership was always fishing for stuff. I don't think too amny marriages could stand up to that.
"Im not blaming the victim I just do not understand how woman can always play the victim in these marriages.
I see many women who have these type of exspectations form men then complain when it goes to far in their estimation.
that is the part I do not get. "
It is a sick dance that requires two. But having once been one of those women, I do get it. We were raised on fairy tales. We were taught that some day our "Prince Charming" would come sweep us off our feet and we would live happily ever after. Add to that low self-esteem and it is a recipe for disaster.
The problem with men who want to play the hero is that they only feel like men when they are playing the hero. If you marry them, and then reach a place where you no longer need rescuing, they have to beat you down so they can rescue you all over again. And because your self esteem is aleady low, it is easy for them to keep you down or beat you down further.
The thing is, until you've lived it - - you really have no idea how bad it is going to become after your hero has rescued you.
Much better to save yourself and then, later, maybe you will meet someone who wants to be your partner instead of your hero. But hindsight usually is 20/20
I do think it can go both ways I have seen woman use men as an excuse not to have to be accountable or make choices in life and to blame their own unhappyness on the marriage or him. and then be miserable to live with. they use it as an excuse to not face their own discontent in life.
you know?
I think it more difficult to get away with now a days, young ladys realize we do and can make our own choices.
Im middle age.. I have many friends who are say ten -twenty years older annd they are the women I see struggle with this.
My sister husband is very successful and always loved her she could do anything she wanted and he would fund it etc.. but she would still be unhappy because if it got to a point where he felt threatened or the food was not cooked and on the table or he didnt have clean clothes then it was all over.
like I said I do not get it cause I am single by choice for most of my life than not. but I know both do think it is like a dance they play in.
I have learned to tred very lightly around these types of marriages I threaten both the man and the women.. these ladies are not ready to meet what life is and I "give " them a sense of failure or something when they realize Im happy without slavery or a man to do for.. the men see me as a huge threat who will teach them how to not take care of what they are suppose to(him) .
those type of friendship I tend to stay away from no one is satisfied in it.
I have had girlfriends say their husbands say they cant go and I know full well it is because they do not want to or are afraid for for some reason.
it makes me angry . to use a relatinships because you do not have the courage to say or do what you want in life.
honestly for me I will take the moments of lonliness or being left out over that anyday.
I think that if a couple's theology teaches them that women are too emotional and influenced by the devil to be rebelious, then the trust and respect the husband would have for his wife has already taken a hit. SHe must be watched, controlled--for her own good, of course.She can never be his equal or as good as he is, simply because she is a woman.
OK-Now I'm GLAD I stayed single. I'd be in jail for murder for sure if I had to endure what you all did. Spousal relationships are challenging enough without all this.
I think that if a couple's theology teaches them that women are too emotional and influenced by the devil to be rebelious, then the trust and respect the husband would have for his wife has already taken a hit. SHe must be watched, controlled--for her own good, of course.She can never be his equal or as good as he is, simply because she is a woman.
Sad...
but true.
that is why I feel equaly sorry for the men caught up in these type of relationships. as well as the girls.
everyone knows we are not able to make another person happy or fullfilled.
so it goes like a mad cow disease where each one has misery and disappointment.
my siter doesnt allow him to do his laudry clean the house cook etc...has a relationship with the kids on her terms, she has a degree of control under a guise of being the weaker vessal.
who is under who's thumb exactly? he is also helpless in many areas unable to mett life on his terms.
sometimes people will play a victim because they want the control , the helpless routine only goes so far.
Ever see these type of marriages when they are old and aged?
they resent the heck out of one another and have little joy left in the union.
but they stay.
today with divorce so high I think it is a repeat lesson where you go after or seek the same type of relationship you know like what your parents had.. do not like it, know itsnt working and get divorced and do it again and again.
but I have zero solutions cause Im the odd ball I have been called gay by my nephew and I believe other family members wonder.. Im not just single and happy with friends.
when my daughter says I have to ask her boyfriend or my siter say I have to ask her husband I honestly do not get it.
I understand communication and all you know making plans no that isnt it it is like they have to have permission.
but then I also see these women tell their husband to do this or that and I think geez must be nice to have a little honey do sometimes.
so that is me marriages .. no wonder im single. haha
not neccesarily a good thing but I would rather be single than in a relationship IM not happy and facing a divorce. I think. but IM old.
when I know how to do something and some idiot man comes along and thinks he can do it better and has no clue I do not do well.
I get macho I guess. hah men do like that at all! my daughter would rather have him screw it all up and make big mistakes and cost money than do it herself sometimes to please him .
I do not understand love.
yeah maybe I am selfish.
been called that to.
so it isnt easy either way.
one time I had a staff of three men under me and my mother asked me in all seriousness, well how do you get them to do that?
I said I tell them to do it.
she looked like she was going to faint and I was an evil witch.
when she is in a situation where she doesnt want to be accountable for something she said or did she will sic her hubby on me. and frankly one day I asked him when are you going to stop doing her bidding and being the hit man for her crimes?
he looked at me and walked away. yeah baby.
but need I say the relationship has not improved since? haha no it really isnt funny.
I know alot of relationships like that. why?
just why?
im sorry I just do not get it. sometimes I think I would get along better in this world if I did.
times have changed I do not know what the goodness is I just try to live my own life .
pond -- I'm not the victim-type -- quite the opposite. As a believer and as a woman, I felt I had to make it work. I thought it would get better, or maybe it really really was ME. It wasn't until I was able to put distance (time and physical distance) between myself and Xxxxx, that I was able to see it wasn't ME. Sure, there were things I said and did no doubt that probably got under Xxxxx's skin, and likewise. However, that gives no reason for any man treating a woman like I, and other posters here, were treated - and it all being justified as "God's will".
Yes, there were things about Xxxxx that made him seem like a good choice for marriage - but you expect your spouse to grow in the marriage with you - not stay stagnant in their maturity and squelch you. That's a recipe for disaster if there ever was one!
----------------------
Shellon -- Quite the contract. I just want to know what that dude was going to do with all his wife's underware, slips, pantyhose, etc. ? It was downright laughable to read - I bet his cell mate will give him a similar contract! LOL!
Pond is the poster formerly known as mj and nothing she says carries any value, imo. She is one of those people who does not care to understand or empathize with things she doesn't believe in - such as women who find themselves in unfortunate circumstances.
Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but the men we married had redeeming qualities and great value as human beings or we wouldn't have fallen in love with them. They maintained a great deal of those qualities over time which is why we tried so hard to fight for our marriages and, perhaps, love IS blind, so we put up with a lot of crap trying to salvage our commitment to God, to our husbands and our families. It's once we realized that despite all our efforts, we were being killed slowly mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually....that we took action to protect ourselves and any children involved.
Some people just aren't going to get it no matter what. It's the lurkers I know who are going through the same situations we've been through that I post for. It's those who DO care and who CAN understand that I value. Not those who accuse me of merely playing the victim. I'm NOT a victim. I was abused - I fought hard to change that while saving my marriage - I couldn't change it - I left. End of story. I'm now working on my own recovery, not whining about being a victim. That's what you ladies are doing too, I think.
But if a man loves a woman, he SHOULD NOT and MUST NOT remake the woman he loves into some standard placed by any circle or ministry. He SHOULD NOT and MUST NOT belittle the woman for her faults and especially NOT in front of people that don't have any frigging business in the relationship. He SHOULD NOT AND MUST NEVER let anyone harm the woman he loves. Most importantly, he SHOULD NOT and MUST NEVER physically or psychologically abuse the woman he loves. Otherwise, he doesn't really love the woman.
This ministry and your ex knows what the "Word" says, but they don't know the meaning and what in practice should be. The meaning and practice is simply "Love". Of course, that's the one most important thing that they never care to teach. To put a lot of legalism in a relationship or dictating what a relationship should be is anything but love.
Like I said, If I pull the same crap on my girlfriend as what your ex did to you, my girlfriend will literally kick my foot even though I am bigger and stronger than her.
Belle...
Feel Free. Enjoy your freedom, you deserve it. Be more succesful than they are. Nothing infuriates them more if you're successful or if you're more successful than they are especially after you left them.
As far as I'm concerned, these TWIts who abused you can all KISS YOUR foot.
I can tell you that as of 2000 this was still going on. My ex was the exact same way. Now in our case, on several occassions "leadership" would step in, but not many. Example. I love watching WWE Wrestling. I liked to go to the sports bar at the bowling alley to watch the pay per views. He insisted that the only reason he "let" me go was to witness to least 3 people. C'mon, who wants to hear that during a sports event? But that didn't mattter.
I constantly heard that he was the head & I had to submit to him no matter what. Once when he felt I wasn't submissive & thought I was possessed by "devil spirits" he started trying to "cast them out" of me claiming that it was his responsibility to do so as the head of the house. No one stepped in on this! That was when I started looking at my options to get out.
it isnt the ones who end in divorce I wonder about.
it is the ones who stay .
that is the ones I have the most trouble with because I just do not understand the whole thing.
I look at most young marriage and wonder if they will last these days.
but it isnt a women under a male thumb so much these days it is other issues.
women who chose men like that and really are aware of the traps of that type of marriage may get divorced but they often end up in another relationship just like it.
ever notice that? that is why I it take both to stay at least in that kind of marriage and relationships.
Little in life is clear cut and simple. Some of us had warning signs of what was to come, some didn't. Some of us hoped the "love of God in the renewed mind" would cause the Mr. Hyde part of our spouses to disappear, only to find out that TWI actually caused Dr. Jekyll to disappear instead. (Or do I have that reversed? - you know what I mean).
Some of us have repeated this pattern of abusive relationships, some have not. But I would bet that almost anyone, male or female, who stayed in an abusive relationship for a length of time came out of that relationship with self-esteem issues, and many of us had them before we got into the relationship.
If I could impart one message to my sisters, it would be to love and accept yourself. Then and only then will you have relationships with people who will also love and accept you, intead of with people who want to fix/change/or abuse you.
Yes, Pond, I am aware of the repetitiveness of the abusive cycle/relationships. I lived it most of my life, starting with my childhood. I was fed negatives about myself as far back as I can remember and many of them I believed. I think I also once believed if there wasn't anger and fighting, then there wasn't passion and love. That is not necessarily the case for all the women here, but it was in my case.
It was only through counseling and learning to love myself AND to take care of myself that I was able to break that cycle. It can be broken, though, and that is good news.
the drama triangle is a well documented issue in many relatinships, the victim the rescuer, and the persecuter, it the the only way some chose to have relationships.
the only effective way out of the triangle is to opt out and be labeled the bad guy to make change .
Spirit and truth fellowship website and well as truth or tradition has a wonderful documentary on this subject with a pdf file.
under search put in the drama triangle and you find alot of information.
much learning to be had I believe the CES link on this site wil still redirect you to their new site.
Augh..the twi teachings on marriage and a believing spouse were the most challenging problems that we faced in our relationship.
I was counceled prior to our marriage to obey his every suggestion, no matter HOW outragious, because HE was the head of the household and no matter HOW wrong he was...God would cover in honor of my obediance and heart....bull sheet....that SOUNDS great on paper.....but is rediculously inefective when dealing with alcoholism or abuse or any type of foolishness.....
I was allowed NO input....as anything from me was to be viewed suspiciously because I was a woman and prone to emotionalism that would negate my good judgement...possibly lead to posession.....
I was taught to believe that as a woman .... that we were not to trust my feelings ane emotions because that was how satan was going to be allowed entry into our lives.
Do you know how it feels to be suspicious of your every thought, emotion and idea? To have to ignore every strong feeling and emotion about foolish choices being made that were going to negatively impact my children and myself :(
We were counceled and told never let the sun go down on your wrath.....that if we were mad...we needed to have sex....regardless about how we personally felt about each other at the time.....I cannot TELL you how I detested him and what God required me to do in order to be a *good* woman.....(it wasn`t a picnic for him either) but we did it because that was what was required of people who wanted a Godly marriage.
Our marriage and family suffered terribly under this system....it wasn`t untill it all came crashing around our ears that I tossed it all out and started from scratch in our beliefs and responsibilities.
It isn`t just twi either......
My daughters best friend turns 18 this weekend....she has been told that as a christian, she is required to be under her parents *guidance* untill she is married...and THEN she will be under the *guidance* of her husband.....in their vocabulary *guidance* is a nice sounding word for complete control. Her younger brother as a male is permitted much more freedom and oportunities ....
Needless to say in her opinion ... Christianity sucks and she hates the God whom insists on her being in bondage her entire life in order to be considered virtuous.
She will have to chose between her parents/God and her freedom. My heart breaks for her having to defy God almighty or wither up and die inside in order to be a good person.
I am so concerned that my girls will end up marrying a Christian who`s maleness gives him absolute control over their lives with no accountability.
Better they marry an unbeliever who will treat her and the children with love and respect....imo
Yes, I definately saw the signs before I got married to the man. And I talked myself into thinking it was just me... not him. That was the kind of person I was at the time, and I would probably have married someone very much like him, regardless.
However, there is no question that twi promoted his kind of attitude and my kind of attitude. I saw it all around me in my leadership's lives and the examples they set. I saw it in what they commented on and didn't comment on, in my marriage. I saw it in how they "helped" when things got so obvious they had to step in. And I saw it in how they threw me out of the ministry for asking questions.
Yes, I would have married the same type of person back then. But how much sooner I would have left? How much sooner I would have had opportunities to recognize my own self-worth? And how many more years would I have before me to get things right? And how much more of a chance to find the right kind of relationship to enjoy?
I'm not playing the victim here. But, like others have said... this kind of marriage flourishes and thrives in a twi-type environment. And if just ONE person reads these posts and recognizes themselves within them... we've done a good thing.
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excathedra
yeah it definitely went (and goes) both ways
my aunt lil lived to be 100 never married. ha !
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frank123lol
For what it is worth I like women the way they are.Thank God for them!!!!
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excathedra
oh i think that's worth a lot frank !!!!
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Bramble
I remember my husband's complete look of astonishment when I was on the phone to a leader wife who asked me to babysit her kids. 'Ask you husband to see if it is all right,' she commanded. So I turned to my husband and asked if him if I could baby sit. He was all, I don't know, can you?
After the call ended I had to explain what that was all about. He thought it was ridiculous.
That was one of the reasons I wanted to stick things out and keep my marriage together when TWI got into our business so much--my husband really did ( and does) respect me. He has never treated me like a stupid child.
We never did get into the tattle trap, either, even though our leadership was always fishing for stuff. I don't think too amny marriages could stand up to that.
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pond
yeah but I see alot of marriages like that. even outside the way.
they scare me.
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Shellon
Check this on what he expected of his wife:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0217062contract1.html
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Morgan
Wow, Shell, that is really sick!
"Im not blaming the victim I just do not understand how woman can always play the victim in these marriages.
I see many women who have these type of exspectations form men then complain when it goes to far in their estimation.
that is the part I do not get. "
It is a sick dance that requires two. But having once been one of those women, I do get it. We were raised on fairy tales. We were taught that some day our "Prince Charming" would come sweep us off our feet and we would live happily ever after. Add to that low self-esteem and it is a recipe for disaster.
The problem with men who want to play the hero is that they only feel like men when they are playing the hero. If you marry them, and then reach a place where you no longer need rescuing, they have to beat you down so they can rescue you all over again. And because your self esteem is aleady low, it is easy for them to keep you down or beat you down further.
The thing is, until you've lived it - - you really have no idea how bad it is going to become after your hero has rescued you.
Much better to save yourself and then, later, maybe you will meet someone who wants to be your partner instead of your hero. But hindsight usually is 20/20
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pond
I have seen it my sisters married like that.
but if you aks her she is happy as a clam.
I do think it can go both ways I have seen woman use men as an excuse not to have to be accountable or make choices in life and to blame their own unhappyness on the marriage or him. and then be miserable to live with. they use it as an excuse to not face their own discontent in life.
you know?
I think it more difficult to get away with now a days, young ladys realize we do and can make our own choices.
Im middle age.. I have many friends who are say ten -twenty years older annd they are the women I see struggle with this.
My sister husband is very successful and always loved her she could do anything she wanted and he would fund it etc.. but she would still be unhappy because if it got to a point where he felt threatened or the food was not cooked and on the table or he didnt have clean clothes then it was all over.
like I said I do not get it cause I am single by choice for most of my life than not. but I know both do think it is like a dance they play in.
I have learned to tred very lightly around these types of marriages I threaten both the man and the women.. these ladies are not ready to meet what life is and I "give " them a sense of failure or something when they realize Im happy without slavery or a man to do for.. the men see me as a huge threat who will teach them how to not take care of what they are suppose to(him) .
those type of friendship I tend to stay away from no one is satisfied in it.
I have had girlfriends say their husbands say they cant go and I know full well it is because they do not want to or are afraid for for some reason.
it makes me angry . to use a relatinships because you do not have the courage to say or do what you want in life.
honestly for me I will take the moments of lonliness or being left out over that anyday.
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Bramble
I think that if a couple's theology teaches them that women are too emotional and influenced by the devil to be rebelious, then the trust and respect the husband would have for his wife has already taken a hit. SHe must be watched, controlled--for her own good, of course.She can never be his equal or as good as he is, simply because she is a woman.
Sad...
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topoftheworld
OK-Now I'm GLAD I stayed single. I'd be in jail for murder for sure if I had to endure what you all did. Spousal relationships are challenging enough without all this.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
o0n a lighter side
i saw a play a few weeks ago.
it was a riot
"I love you, your'e perfect, now change"
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pond
but true.
that is why I feel equaly sorry for the men caught up in these type of relationships. as well as the girls.
everyone knows we are not able to make another person happy or fullfilled.
so it goes like a mad cow disease where each one has misery and disappointment.
my siter doesnt allow him to do his laudry clean the house cook etc...has a relationship with the kids on her terms, she has a degree of control under a guise of being the weaker vessal.
who is under who's thumb exactly? he is also helpless in many areas unable to mett life on his terms.
sometimes people will play a victim because they want the control , the helpless routine only goes so far.
Ever see these type of marriages when they are old and aged?
they resent the heck out of one another and have little joy left in the union.
but they stay.
today with divorce so high I think it is a repeat lesson where you go after or seek the same type of relationship you know like what your parents had.. do not like it, know itsnt working and get divorced and do it again and again.
but I have zero solutions cause Im the odd ball I have been called gay by my nephew and I believe other family members wonder.. Im not just single and happy with friends.
when my daughter says I have to ask her boyfriend or my siter say I have to ask her husband I honestly do not get it.
I understand communication and all you know making plans no that isnt it it is like they have to have permission.
but then I also see these women tell their husband to do this or that and I think geez must be nice to have a little honey do sometimes.
so that is me marriages .. no wonder im single. haha
not neccesarily a good thing but I would rather be single than in a relationship IM not happy and facing a divorce. I think. but IM old.
when I know how to do something and some idiot man comes along and thinks he can do it better and has no clue I do not do well.
I get macho I guess. hah men do like that at all! my daughter would rather have him screw it all up and make big mistakes and cost money than do it herself sometimes to please him .
I do not understand love.
yeah maybe I am selfish.
been called that to.
so it isnt easy either way.
one time I had a staff of three men under me and my mother asked me in all seriousness, well how do you get them to do that?
I said I tell them to do it.
she looked like she was going to faint and I was an evil witch.
when she is in a situation where she doesnt want to be accountable for something she said or did she will sic her hubby on me. and frankly one day I asked him when are you going to stop doing her bidding and being the hit man for her crimes?
he looked at me and walked away. yeah baby.
but need I say the relationship has not improved since? haha no it really isnt funny.
I know alot of relationships like that. why?
just why?
im sorry I just do not get it. sometimes I think I would get along better in this world if I did.
times have changed I do not know what the goodness is I just try to live my own life .
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ChasUFarley
pond -- I'm not the victim-type -- quite the opposite. As a believer and as a woman, I felt I had to make it work. I thought it would get better, or maybe it really really was ME. It wasn't until I was able to put distance (time and physical distance) between myself and Xxxxx, that I was able to see it wasn't ME. Sure, there were things I said and did no doubt that probably got under Xxxxx's skin, and likewise. However, that gives no reason for any man treating a woman like I, and other posters here, were treated - and it all being justified as "God's will".
Yes, there were things about Xxxxx that made him seem like a good choice for marriage - but you expect your spouse to grow in the marriage with you - not stay stagnant in their maturity and squelch you. That's a recipe for disaster if there ever was one!
----------------------
Shellon -- Quite the contract. I just want to know what that dude was going to do with all his wife's underware, slips, pantyhose, etc. ? It was downright laughable to read - I bet his cell mate will give him a similar contract! LOL!
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Belle
Pond is the poster formerly known as mj and nothing she says carries any value, imo. She is one of those people who does not care to understand or empathize with things she doesn't believe in - such as women who find themselves in unfortunate circumstances.
Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but the men we married had redeeming qualities and great value as human beings or we wouldn't have fallen in love with them. They maintained a great deal of those qualities over time which is why we tried so hard to fight for our marriages and, perhaps, love IS blind, so we put up with a lot of crap trying to salvage our commitment to God, to our husbands and our families. It's once we realized that despite all our efforts, we were being killed slowly mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually....that we took action to protect ourselves and any children involved.
Some people just aren't going to get it no matter what. It's the lurkers I know who are going through the same situations we've been through that I post for. It's those who DO care and who CAN understand that I value. Not those who accuse me of merely playing the victim. I'm NOT a victim. I was abused - I fought hard to change that while saving my marriage - I couldn't change it - I left. End of story. I'm now working on my own recovery, not whining about being a victim. That's what you ladies are doing too, I think.
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FreeFromCults
Belle,
Sorry if I am going "spiritually"
But if a man loves a woman, he SHOULD NOT and MUST NOT remake the woman he loves into some standard placed by any circle or ministry. He SHOULD NOT and MUST NOT belittle the woman for her faults and especially NOT in front of people that don't have any frigging business in the relationship. He SHOULD NOT AND MUST NEVER let anyone harm the woman he loves. Most importantly, he SHOULD NOT and MUST NEVER physically or psychologically abuse the woman he loves. Otherwise, he doesn't really love the woman.
This ministry and your ex knows what the "Word"
says, but they don't know the meaning and what in practice should be. The meaning and practice is simply "Love". Of course, that's the one most important thing that they never care to teach. To put a lot of legalism in a relationship or dictating what a relationship should be is anything but love.
Like I said, If I pull the same crap on my girlfriend as what your ex did to you, my girlfriend will literally kick my foot even though I am bigger and stronger than her.
Belle...
Feel Free. Enjoy your freedom, you deserve it. Be more succesful than they are. Nothing infuriates them more if you're successful or if you're more successful than they are especially after you left them.
As far as I'm concerned, these TWIts who abused you can all KISS YOUR foot.
Best Regards.
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waterbuffalo
Good post, Free.
And, I believe that anyone who is OUT IS more sucessful than ANYONE still in that group.
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Vyctorya911
I can tell you that as of 2000 this was still going on. My ex was the exact same way. Now in our case, on several occassions "leadership" would step in, but not many. Example. I love watching WWE Wrestling. I liked to go to the sports bar at the bowling alley to watch the pay per views. He insisted that the only reason he "let" me go was to witness to least 3 people. C'mon, who wants to hear that during a sports event? But that didn't mattter.
I constantly heard that he was the head & I had to submit to him no matter what. Once when he felt I wasn't submissive & thought I was possessed by "devil spirits" he started trying to "cast them out" of me claiming that it was his responsibility to do so as the head of the house. No one stepped in on this! That was when I started looking at my options to get out.
Vyctorya
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likeaneagle
Oh Vyctorya- Im so sorry this happened to you.....
People can take things to extremes...the word was taken to extremes...we will survive:)
I left in 2000 also.
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pond
it isnt the ones who end in divorce I wonder about.
it is the ones who stay .
that is the ones I have the most trouble with because I just do not understand the whole thing.
I look at most young marriage and wonder if they will last these days.
but it isnt a women under a male thumb so much these days it is other issues.
women who chose men like that and really are aware of the traps of that type of marriage may get divorced but they often end up in another relationship just like it.
ever notice that? that is why I it take both to stay at least in that kind of marriage and relationships.
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Morgan
Little in life is clear cut and simple. Some of us had warning signs of what was to come, some didn't. Some of us hoped the "love of God in the renewed mind" would cause the Mr. Hyde part of our spouses to disappear, only to find out that TWI actually caused Dr. Jekyll to disappear instead. (Or do I have that reversed? - you know what I mean).
Some of us have repeated this pattern of abusive relationships, some have not. But I would bet that almost anyone, male or female, who stayed in an abusive relationship for a length of time came out of that relationship with self-esteem issues, and many of us had them before we got into the relationship.
If I could impart one message to my sisters, it would be to love and accept yourself. Then and only then will you have relationships with people who will also love and accept you, intead of with people who want to fix/change/or abuse you.
Yes, Pond, I am aware of the repetitiveness of the abusive cycle/relationships. I lived it most of my life, starting with my childhood. I was fed negatives about myself as far back as I can remember and many of them I believed. I think I also once believed if there wasn't anger and fighting, then there wasn't passion and love. That is not necessarily the case for all the women here, but it was in my case.
It was only through counseling and learning to love myself AND to take care of myself that I was able to break that cycle. It can be broken, though, and that is good news.
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pond
I agree Morgan.
the drama triangle is a well documented issue in many relatinships, the victim the rescuer, and the persecuter, it the the only way some chose to have relationships.
the only effective way out of the triangle is to opt out and be labeled the bad guy to make change .
Spirit and truth fellowship website and well as truth or tradition has a wonderful documentary on this subject with a pdf file.
under search put in the drama triangle and you find alot of information.
much learning to be had I believe the CES link on this site wil still redirect you to their new site.
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rascal
Augh..the twi teachings on marriage and a believing spouse were the most challenging problems that we faced in our relationship.
I was counceled prior to our marriage to obey his every suggestion, no matter HOW outragious, because HE was the head of the household and no matter HOW wrong he was...God would cover in honor of my obediance and heart....bull sheet....that SOUNDS great on paper.....but is rediculously inefective when dealing with alcoholism or abuse or any type of foolishness.....
I was allowed NO input....as anything from me was to be viewed suspiciously because I was a woman and prone to emotionalism that would negate my good judgement...possibly lead to posession.....
I was taught to believe that as a woman .... that we were not to trust my feelings ane emotions because that was how satan was going to be allowed entry into our lives.
Do you know how it feels to be suspicious of your every thought, emotion and idea? To have to ignore every strong feeling and emotion about foolish choices being made that were going to negatively impact my children and myself :(
We were counceled and told never let the sun go down on your wrath.....that if we were mad...we needed to have sex....regardless about how we personally felt about each other at the time.....I cannot TELL you how I detested him and what God required me to do in order to be a *good* woman.....(it wasn`t a picnic for him either) but we did it because that was what was required of people who wanted a Godly marriage.
Our marriage and family suffered terribly under this system....it wasn`t untill it all came crashing around our ears that I tossed it all out and started from scratch in our beliefs and responsibilities.
It isn`t just twi either......
My daughters best friend turns 18 this weekend....she has been told that as a christian, she is required to be under her parents *guidance* untill she is married...and THEN she will be under the *guidance* of her husband.....in their vocabulary *guidance* is a nice sounding word for complete control. Her younger brother as a male is permitted much more freedom and oportunities ....
Needless to say in her opinion ... Christianity sucks and she hates the God whom insists on her being in bondage her entire life in order to be considered virtuous.
She will have to chose between her parents/God and her freedom. My heart breaks for her having to defy God almighty or wither up and die inside in order to be a good person.
I am so concerned that my girls will end up marrying a Christian who`s maleness gives him absolute control over their lives with no accountability.
Better they marry an unbeliever who will treat her and the children with love and respect....imo
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TheHighWay
Some good posts here...
Yes, I definately saw the signs before I got married to the man. And I talked myself into thinking it was just me... not him. That was the kind of person I was at the time, and I would probably have married someone very much like him, regardless.
However, there is no question that twi promoted his kind of attitude and my kind of attitude. I saw it all around me in my leadership's lives and the examples they set. I saw it in what they commented on and didn't comment on, in my marriage. I saw it in how they "helped" when things got so obvious they had to step in. And I saw it in how they threw me out of the ministry for asking questions.
Yes, I would have married the same type of person back then. But how much sooner I would have left? How much sooner I would have had opportunities to recognize my own self-worth? And how many more years would I have before me to get things right? And how much more of a chance to find the right kind of relationship to enjoy?
I'm not playing the victim here. But, like others have said... this kind of marriage flourishes and thrives in a twi-type environment. And if just ONE person reads these posts and recognizes themselves within them... we've done a good thing.
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FreeFromCults
Very true.
Who the F**K cares if the man is not Christian as long as he treats his wife and children with love and respect?
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