Because I don't endorse her belief system has nothing to do with it I suppose!
That's right it has nothing to do with it--It isn't about endorsing my belief system, since I think I am the only LDS person on the boards if it were about that I wouldn't ever "talk" to anyone here--- its about dealing with others respectfully
Exactly an earlier post this thread has changed topics a few times since a few pages back we were discussing level playing fields that is to what my comment was addressed to .
SO since it was a few pages back and an answer to another question--it becomes invalid a few pages farther along in another discussion--???
I never said truth was exclusive to the way or PFAL
You're right you didnt use those exact words however those who do not espouse the view that they are, like me, are told
You do not seek the truth
The golden rule is not a biblical concept
If you said it is not an exact quote from the Bible you would be correct--however the CONCEPT is definitely from the Bible
Matthew 19:19 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Matthew 22:39 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Mark 12:31Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Romans 13:9 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
In short you make allegations and fabrications by subtle use of wording over several posts, leaving no doubts in anyone's mind as to what you are saying and espousing and then when the reader of said posts distills your beliefs into a few sentences--you assume the mantle of wounded innocence with "I never said that".
Hey relax Rascal I never called anyone a Whited Sepulchre or said they were of their father the devil yet ,like Jesus did I guess I got a little room to work with yet!.
SO since it was a few pages back and an answer to another question--it becomes invalid a few pages farther along in another discussion--???
No but you can't mix and match questions and answers on different subjects and expect to get a true representation of what was said. Oh maybe that was the point.....
you assume the mantle of wounded innocence with "I never said that".
No I said what I said ,if you want to quote me fine just don't make $*@! up.......
Apples and oranges and you know it Dove.... Jesus was speaking to the pharacies who were hurting and stealing from God`s people....YOU are addressing your NEIGHBORS here....
Nice attempt to justify why it is ok to NOT to behave as a man of charater or why the fruit of the spirit being exhibited is conspicuously absent..... not to mention just down right decency.
Come on Dov, it appears that we deeply offend you simply because we don`t line up with what you think a christian oughtta be according to wierwille/twi doctrine.........
Dov for years I have read the posts of a very kind, conciencious man...a man that I could deeply respect, a credit to his system of belief. One who`s pov and input I considered to have great merit.....
A man that would address issues with patience and gentleness....a man who could gently guide.....someone I thought of as a friend.
I don`t know when or why you snapped this last year or what the trigger was .... but I miss that guy :(
Jesus was speaking to the pharacies who were hurting and stealing from God`s people
Then again there are these verses where he was talking to Peter and it was not about abuse but about seeking the things of man more than the things of God.
Matthew 16:23 - But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mark 8:33 - But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Come on Dov, it appears that we deeply offend you simply because we don`t line up with what you think a Christian oughtta be according to wierwille/twi doctrine
Cathy dear you have not offended me at all, and I don't dislike you . I am "mildly irritated" at times by your insistence upon labeling me a Wierwile/TWI follower despite the fact that I have told you otherwise. I'lll say it again for the gazillonth time, I am a seeker of truth and I'll accept it where it is found, it is still truth no matter what the moral state of the speaker is, that is a separate issue. 2+2=4 no matter who says it. The way is a source, one of many for truth like all of them because we are humans it has good and bad true and untrue. I can live with that. I do appreciate the olive branch and your concern, but I assure you that I have not snapped nor do I plan on it anytime soon.
And now you are saying because Jesus rebuked satan in peter ....that is why we your neighbors here deserve to be treated with a lack of respect ????
Why not then just begin each post addressing us with Get thee behind me satan, if that is how you view us?
Olive branch? ...geeze forget it.... Your *mild irritation* has been pretty hurtfull at times and led to some mighty ugly personal attacks. .. guess I`d hate to see down right irrate. <_<
I just don`t give a damn what you or anybody else lable themselves OR what their system of belief is anymore ...it is and always has been how you personally treat people that is important ... this more than anything else is a direct reflection on ones belief system....... It shows the world what you have inside and whether it has merit. Like it or not it is also how folks identify you as a christian.
If any system of belief, I don`t care what it`s lable....causes it`s adherants to ignore basic human decency not to mention good manners ....that is the participants perogative.....but it is then pretty unrealistic to expect to win any popularity contests or unanimous respect for one who presents their pov, no matter how valid ... in this manner.
so what your saying is as long as you are liked and a nice person and the group thinks your a great guy, your in and will be listened to with respect.
great!
Integrity means having something to believe in ,having a standard and sharing it with truth and honesty.
Or we can just be nice guys and say what people want to hear and get away with murder and lies, I guess as long as you can win the "popularity contest" or " unanimous respect" you think is important.
so what your saying is as long as you are liked and a nice person and the group thinks your a great guy, your in and will be listened to with respect.
Wrong.
Any honest attempt at reading would have said that.
INTEGRITY is moral, and resides in the heart,
is displayed in speech,
and demonstrated in action.
RELIGION is behavioural, and resides in the
actions and words.
Someone can speak religion, and CLAIM to be
loving and compassionate,
OR
someone can have integrity, and HAVE love
and compassion.
It's the difference between hearing a sermon
and SEEING a sermon.
Someone once said that knowledge PUFFS up
(like air in a balloon)
and God's love BUILDS up
(like concrete in a building).
One is solid and consistent,
and the other is a bunch of hot air.
The difference is not that difficult to see.
If one is TRYING.
great!
Integrity means having something to believe in ,having a standard and sharing it with truth and honesty.
Or we can just be nice guys and say what people want to hear and get away with murder and lies, I guess as long as you can win the "popularity contest" or " unanimous respect" you think is important.
Congratulations!
You completely missed-as in 180 degrees-the point!
Since that's what you were trying to do, well done!
It is not possible to have missed the mark in any greater way!
fact is truth has NEVER been a popular concept.
We noticed.
Exposing evil has NEVER been a popular concept, either.
Ok so I guess it's back to Price Chopper for my olives after all.....
Joking aside I'll try it again here.
Your comment was
Apples and oranges and you know it Dove.... Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees who were hurting and stealing from God`s people
My response to that quote was
Matthew 16:23 - But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mark 8:33 - But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
From a look at scripture Jesus did not apparently just speak to Scribes and Pharisees as you indicated, since Peter was neither. He also was a member of Jesus' inner circle an apostle someone who Jesus liked but still he used the proper response when it was merited. Peter was human and I bet when he settled in for the night as he was drifting off to sleep perhaps thinking of the days events I'm sure he thought to himself wow he called me Satan. Perhaps he thought about why Jesus would do such a thing. I suppose Jesus failed your test of treating people nice due to his words.
I just don't give a damn what you or anybody else label themselves OR what their system of belief is anymore
Apparently you do since you seem intent on referring to me as a wierwille /TWI supporter.
No, Dove....you yourself placed yourself IN that camp when you repeatedly bemoaned your unfair treatment here to any who have anything nice to say about twi....you are making this something it never was.
You have shown (as have we all) exactly who/what you are through what you post and in the way you treat people ... what EVER lable you chose to place on yourself...or how you percieve those around.
The behavior or fruit exhibited by a person regardless of their belief system directly reflects what is on the inside friend...no wiggle room.
No, Dove....you yourself placed yourself IN that camp when you repeatedly bemoaned your unfair treatment here to any who have anything nice to say about twi....you are making this something it never was.
Incorrect Rascal admission that you see something that is true does not mean you align yourself with it or do not. It means what it says that you see it is true.. One can admit to truth about TWI and not be a supporter of it . Truth is truth despite how you feel about it. You can't seem to grasp that concept Truth is not dependent on human feelings ,emotions .morals it stands because it is truth. I think we have covered the unlevel playing field and I am not the only one that see's it despite the fact that you won't. As I said before just acknowledging it that's all. It's there, it's fine, just don't tell me it's not!
I don`t care about what you believe or the lable you slap on it ...or who you aligne yourself with dove, really....that is only important to you.
My opinion of your beliefs or the validity of your truth is based entirely on the behavior that you yourself chose to exhibit pure and simple....
You made the claim of an unfair playing field...I in turn gave my opinion as to why people might not be receptive........or why I would not have respect for a particular pov no matter WHO was presenting it......you don`t have to accept it , or like my perception ...but there they are none the less.
what truth does twi have that any other denomination does't? :unsure:
Good question Coolchef to start with I'd say that they do have some things in common with churches more than they would have liked to admit most likely. Some things that they do not have in common with most/not all churches. Dead people being alive, Manifestations not gifts, Jesus is not God, The day Jesus died ,the importance of Pentecost, Salvation by grace not works, four crucified with Christ ,Body Soul Spirit, Jesus and the Passover, Baptism and on and on......
Now that said from the way you phrased your question it appears that you have not understood that I have not said that they hold the only or all truth just that they have/had some truth. That which was true can be accepted as such that which is not also can be accepted as such. If I read you wrong sorry but just wanted to make that clear upfront. I also was speaking of things that were true or factual not doctrinal necessarily, like they have nice grass. I can admit that without having to have some negative comment attached to it. Another words it's ok to say they had nice grass without being in eternal condemnation for not having something bad to say. It's ok it does not promote them in any way just admitting a truth/fact.
I don`t care about what you believe or the lable you slap on it ...or who you aligne yourself with dove, really....that is only important to you.
Fine Rascal since it is not important to you-then you will have no objection to not refering to me as such from now on correct?
Dang Ex Are you bored today? You really read through 11 pages of drivel?
Thanks for the observation I just knew someone would get it.. :wub:
what does it matter if christ was hung alone ore with 2 4 or 50? he did it for us
and yes dove they did have nice grass! it was once a wonderful place
Cool
You asked what truth does twi have that any other denomination does't?
I supplied you with some examples. How each is relevant to our daily lives is a different question, and the answer is different for each person. The one you picked out how many crucified with Christ as far as practical application in our daily lives is not that important, but none the less does not change it's truth. It does become useful when establishing biblical accuracy or integrity of the scriptures. So it has it's place it's just not a truth that effects our everyday life. Much like a wrench does not affect my everyday life on a regular basis but when I want to work on my car it is very useful. Everything has it's use it just needs to correspond with what we need. at the time. Now some of the other truths I learned I use on a daily basis and they have been invaluable.
I do not want to jump into the depth of this thread (for derail it) but must chime in regarding the 4 crucified.
Four crucified was very significant to me. I had read the gospels in junior high. Three stated that both men rejected Jesus and one stated that one accepted and one rejected him. No one I asked could clear up the problem for me. So that was one more reason for me not to believe the Bible. (In junior high, I thought Jesus Christ was an ego maniac...really stuck on himself.)
That said, 4 years later, I decided to try to believe it (the Bible) anyway. Four crucified helped me see that maybe it could be trusted.
Whilst on holiday I had a couple of 'sweet' 'templeboys' attempt to witness to me in the street.
To cut a long story short, they pronounced judgement on me and my family because we tried to show them grace, not legalism rules !!
So TL, I see through these facades..o.k.
Okay--being a glutton for punishment I'll bite
Just what was the "judgement" they pronounced???
Did they banish you to outer darkness??
declare you cursed among men??
Declare your souls eternally damned???
If any of the above they were way out of line---
If however they held to the truth of their testimonies and refused to relinquish those testimonies despite your arguments--that, Allen, simply means that they are faithful and steadfast. That is why they are missionaries
A facade implies that what they present is lies and they know it is lies
But then again that is what you keep accusing me of --so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you would do the same to two young missionaries.
I can only pray that the fact it was a face to face encounter may mean that they were spared the venomous rantings that I endure from you on this site.
Dove
I find nothing that is in your list of things that TWI taught that cannot be found in another denomination. Perhaps they aren't all found in a given denomination but none of them are exclusive to TWI
Bagpipes you can jump in anytime you want. Your post was a perfect illustration of what I was saying to coolchef. How each is relevant to our daily lives is a different question, and the answer is different for each person
Dove
I find nothing that is in your list of things that TWI taught that cannot be found in another denomination. Perhaps they aren't all found in a given denomination but none of them are exclusive to TWI
Which Christian church teaches that the dead are dead not alive Do you know?
Geesh..I've been on holiday for a week only to come back and find the 'Wierwille haters' fraternity are still gnashing their teeth!!
Whilst on holiday I had a couple of 'sweet' 'templeboys' attempt to witness to me in the street.
To cut a long story short, they pronounced judgement on me and my family because we tried to show them grace, not legalism rules !!
So TL, I see through these facades..o.k.
Gee, the guy who consistantly bashes the Mormons gets witnessed to by Mormons...what a coincidence!
Yeah, ditto what templelady said allan.
If you conducted yourself in public the way you do on these forums, I imagine that the exchange was a bit different than you describe.
And btw, no "teeth-gnashing" from anybody going on here, allan. While I find the reflexive, unthinking condemnation of anyone who holds to even a part of PFAL as ridiculous, your labeling of anyone who condemns Wierwille for his actions or criticizes his teachings as inaccurate as a "Wierwille-hater" is equally unthinking and equally ridiculous.
Just my opinion, of course.
have a lucky day
Oh yeah, I've come across less than a handful of churches over the years who belive that 4 were crucified with Jesus. They were all independent, non-denominational. The first one was in New York and employed street-corner preachers who utilzied Bullinger's books.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
26
22
41
23
Popular Days
Feb 25
28
Feb 15
27
Feb 14
23
Feb 24
22
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 26 posts
templelady 22 posts
WhiteDove 41 posts
allan w. 23 posts
Popular Days
Feb 25 2006
28 posts
Feb 15 2006
27 posts
Feb 14 2006
23 posts
Feb 24 2006
22 posts
templelady
SO since it was a few pages back and an answer to another question--it becomes invalid a few pages farther along in another discussion--???
You're right you didnt use those exact words however those who do not espouse the view that they are, like me, are told
If you said it is not an exact quote from the Bible you would be correct--however the CONCEPT is definitely from the Bible
Matthew 19:19 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Matthew 22:39 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Mark 12:31Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Romans 13:9 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
In short you make allegations and fabrications by subtle use of wording over several posts, leaving no doubts in anyone's mind as to what you are saying and espousing and then when the reader of said posts distills your beliefs into a few sentences--you assume the mantle of wounded innocence with "I never said that".
Thou learned well at the feet of VPW, hoppergrass
Edited by templeladyLink to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Hey relax Rascal I never called anyone a Whited Sepulchre or said they were of their father the devil yet ,like Jesus did I guess I got a little room to work with yet!.
No but you can't mix and match questions and answers on different subjects and expect to get a true representation of what was said. Oh maybe that was the point.....No I said what I said ,if you want to quote me fine just don't make $*@! up.......
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Apples and oranges and you know it Dove.... Jesus was speaking to the pharacies who were hurting and stealing from God`s people....YOU are addressing your NEIGHBORS here....
Nice attempt to justify why it is ok to NOT to behave as a man of charater or why the fruit of the spirit being exhibited is conspicuously absent..... not to mention just down right decency.
Come on Dov, it appears that we deeply offend you simply because we don`t line up with what you think a christian oughtta be according to wierwille/twi doctrine.........
Edited by rascalLink to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Dov for years I have read the posts of a very kind, conciencious man...a man that I could deeply respect, a credit to his system of belief. One who`s pov and input I considered to have great merit.....
A man that would address issues with patience and gentleness....a man who could gently guide.....someone I thought of as a friend.
I don`t know when or why you snapped this last year or what the trigger was .... but I miss that guy :(
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Matthew 16:23 - But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mark 8:33 - But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Cathy dear you have not offended me at all, and I don't dislike you . I am "mildly irritated" at times by your insistence upon labeling me a Wierwile/TWI follower despite the fact that I have told you otherwise. I'lll say it again for the gazillonth time, I am a seeker of truth and I'll accept it where it is found, it is still truth no matter what the moral state of the speaker is, that is a separate issue. 2+2=4 no matter who says it. The way is a source, one of many for truth like all of them because we are humans it has good and bad true and untrue. I can live with that. I do appreciate the olive branch and your concern, but I assure you that I have not snapped nor do I plan on it anytime soon.
Edited by WhiteDoveLink to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
And now you are saying because Jesus rebuked satan in peter ....that is why we your neighbors here deserve to be treated with a lack of respect ????
Why not then just begin each post addressing us with Get thee behind me satan, if that is how you view us?
Olive branch? ...geeze forget it.... Your *mild irritation* has been pretty hurtfull at times and led to some mighty ugly personal attacks. .. guess I`d hate to see down right irrate. <_<
I just don`t give a damn what you or anybody else lable themselves OR what their system of belief is anymore ...it is and always has been how you personally treat people that is important ... this more than anything else is a direct reflection on ones belief system....... It shows the world what you have inside and whether it has merit. Like it or not it is also how folks identify you as a christian.
If any system of belief, I don`t care what it`s lable....causes it`s adherants to ignore basic human decency not to mention good manners
....that is the participants perogative.....but it is then pretty unrealistic to expect to win any popularity contests or unanimous respect for one who presents their pov, no matter how valid ... in this manner.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pond
so what your saying is as long as you are liked and a nice person and the group thinks your a great guy, your in and will be listened to with respect.
great!
Integrity means having something to believe in ,having a standard and sharing it with truth and honesty.
Or we can just be nice guys and say what people want to hear and get away with murder and lies, I guess as long as you can win the "popularity contest" or " unanimous respect" you think is important.
fact is truth has NEVER been a popular concept.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Wrong.
Any honest attempt at reading would have said that.
INTEGRITY is moral, and resides in the heart,
is displayed in speech,
and demonstrated in action.
RELIGION is behavioural, and resides in the
actions and words.
Someone can speak religion, and CLAIM to be
loving and compassionate,
OR
someone can have integrity, and HAVE love
and compassion.
It's the difference between hearing a sermon
and SEEING a sermon.
Someone once said that knowledge PUFFS up
(like air in a balloon)
and God's love BUILDS up
(like concrete in a building).
One is solid and consistent,
and the other is a bunch of hot air.
The difference is not that difficult to see.
If one is TRYING.
Congratulations!You completely missed-as in 180 degrees-the point!
Since that's what you were trying to do, well done!
It is not possible to have missed the mark in any greater way!
We noticed.
Exposing evil has NEVER been a popular concept, either.
People have been killed for it.
Or been lambasted in messageboards for it.
Or things in between.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Ok so I guess it's back to Price Chopper for my olives after all.....
Joking aside I'll try it again here.
Your comment was
My response to that quote wasMatthew 16:23 - But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mark 8:33 - But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
From a look at scripture Jesus did not apparently just speak to Scribes and Pharisees as you indicated, since Peter was neither. He also was a member of Jesus' inner circle an apostle someone who Jesus liked but still he used the proper response when it was merited. Peter was human and I bet when he settled in for the night as he was drifting off to sleep perhaps thinking of the days events I'm sure he thought to himself wow he called me Satan. Perhaps he thought about why Jesus would do such a thing. I suppose Jesus failed your test of treating people nice due to his words.
Apparently you do since you seem intent on referring to me as a wierwille /TWI supporter.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
No, Dove....you yourself placed yourself IN that camp when you repeatedly bemoaned your unfair treatment here to any who have anything nice to say about twi....you are making this something it never was.
You have shown (as have we all) exactly who/what you are through what you post and in the way you treat people ... what EVER lable you chose to place on yourself...or how you percieve those around.
The behavior or fruit exhibited by a person regardless of their belief system directly reflects what is on the inside friend...no wiggle room.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
WhiteDove, welcome to my camp.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Incorrect Rascal admission that you see something that is true does not mean you align yourself with it or do not. It means what it says that you see it is true.. One can admit to truth about TWI and not be a supporter of it . Truth is truth despite how you feel about it. You can't seem to grasp that concept Truth is not dependent on human feelings ,emotions .morals it stands because it is truth. I think we have covered the unlevel playing field and I am not the only one that see's it despite the fact that you won't. As I said before just acknowledging it that's all. It's there, it's fine, just don't tell me it's not!
Edited by WhiteDoveLink to comment
Share on other sites
coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
dove
i must ask
what truth does twi have that any other denomination does't? :unsure:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ex10
ok, after reading 11 pages of this banter, I think I've figured out Dove doesn't like being referred to as a Wierwillite.
I would never call you one, either, Dove. Knowing you for all these years, I could never ever categorize you as a sycophant of VPW.
Edited by ex10Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
I don`t care about what you believe or the lable you slap on it ...or who you aligne yourself with dove, really....that is only important to you.
My opinion of your beliefs or the validity of your truth is based entirely on the behavior that you yourself chose to exhibit pure and simple....
You made the claim of an unfair playing field...I in turn gave my opinion as to why people might not be receptive........or why I would not have respect for a particular pov no matter WHO was presenting it......you don`t have to accept it , or like my perception ...but there they are none the less.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Good question Coolchef to start with I'd say that they do have some things in common with churches more than they would have liked to admit most likely. Some things that they do not have in common with most/not all churches. Dead people being alive, Manifestations not gifts, Jesus is not God, The day Jesus died ,the importance of Pentecost, Salvation by grace not works, four crucified with Christ ,Body Soul Spirit, Jesus and the Passover, Baptism and on and on......
Now that said from the way you phrased your question it appears that you have not understood that I have not said that they hold the only or all truth just that they have/had some truth. That which was true can be accepted as such that which is not also can be accepted as such. If I read you wrong sorry but just wanted to make that clear upfront. I also was speaking of things that were true or factual not doctrinal necessarily, like they have nice grass. I can admit that without having to have some negative comment attached to it. Another words it's ok to say they had nice grass without being in eternal condemnation for not having something bad to say. It's ok it does not promote them in any way just admitting a truth/fact.
Fine Rascal since it is not important to you-then you will have no objection to not refering to me as such from now on correct?
Dang Ex Are you bored today? You really read through 11 pages of drivel?
Thanks for the observation I just knew someone would get it.. :wub:
Edited by WhiteDoveLink to comment
Share on other sites
allan w.
Geesh..I've been on holiday for a week only to come back and find the 'Wierwille haters' fraternity are still gnashing their teeth!!
Whilst on holiday I had a couple of 'sweet' 'templeboys' attempt to witness to me in the street.
To cut a long story short, they pronounced judgement on me and my family because we tried to show them grace, not legalism rules !!
So TL, I see through these facades..o.k.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
ok dove thanks for the nice reply
but in my opinion
what does it matter if christ was hung alone ore with 2 4 or 50? he did it for us
and yes dove they did have nice grass! it was once a wonderful place
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Cool
You asked what truth does twi have that any other denomination does't?
I supplied you with some examples. How each is relevant to our daily lives is a different question, and the answer is different for each person. The one you picked out how many crucified with Christ as far as practical application in our daily lives is not that important, but none the less does not change it's truth. It does become useful when establishing biblical accuracy or integrity of the scriptures. So it has it's place it's just not a truth that effects our everyday life. Much like a wrench does not affect my everyday life on a regular basis but when I want to work on my car it is very useful. Everything has it's use it just needs to correspond with what we need. at the time. Now some of the other truths I learned I use on a daily basis and they have been invaluable.
Edited by WhiteDoveLink to comment
Share on other sites
I Love Bagpipes
I do not want to jump into the depth of this thread (for derail it) but must chime in regarding the 4 crucified.
Four crucified was very significant to me. I had read the gospels in junior high. Three stated that both men rejected Jesus and one stated that one accepted and one rejected him. No one I asked could clear up the problem for me. So that was one more reason for me not to believe the Bible. (In junior high, I thought Jesus Christ was an ego maniac...really stuck on himself.)
That said, 4 years later, I decided to try to believe it (the Bible) anyway. Four crucified helped me see that maybe it could be trusted.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
templelady
Okay--being a glutton for punishment I'll bite
Just what was the "judgement" they pronounced???
Did they banish you to outer darkness??
declare you cursed among men??
Declare your souls eternally damned???
If any of the above they were way out of line---
If however they held to the truth of their testimonies and refused to relinquish those testimonies despite your arguments--that, Allen, simply means that they are faithful and steadfast. That is why they are missionaries
A facade implies that what they present is lies and they know it is lies
But then again that is what you keep accusing me of --so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you would do the same to two young missionaries.
I can only pray that the fact it was a face to face encounter may mean that they were spared the venomous rantings that I endure from you on this site.
Dove
I find nothing that is in your list of things that TWI taught that cannot be found in another denomination. Perhaps they aren't all found in a given denomination but none of them are exclusive to TWI
Edited by templeladyLink to comment
Share on other sites
WhiteDove
Bagpipes you can jump in anytime you want. Your post was a perfect illustration of what I was saying to coolchef. How each is relevant to our daily lives is a different question, and the answer is different for each person
Which Christian church teaches that the dead are dead not alive Do you know?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
markomalley
Seventh Day Adventists teach soul sleep. JW's teach soul sleep. Herbert Armstrong taught soul sleep.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Yeah, ditto what templelady said allan.
If you conducted yourself in public the way you do on these forums, I imagine that the exchange was a bit different than you describe.
And btw, no "teeth-gnashing" from anybody going on here, allan. While I find the reflexive, unthinking condemnation of anyone who holds to even a part of PFAL as ridiculous, your labeling of anyone who condemns Wierwille for his actions or criticizes his teachings as inaccurate as a "Wierwille-hater" is equally unthinking and equally ridiculous.
Just my opinion, of course.
have a lucky day
Oh yeah, I've come across less than a handful of churches over the years who belive that 4 were crucified with Jesus. They were all independent, non-denominational. The first one was in New York and employed street-corner preachers who utilzied Bullinger's books.
Edited by OakspearLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.